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blindboxx2334

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2013
1,340
101
Wets Coast
that video above proves that, sometimes, a big hammer does fix things (not for me tho. I destroy shit with a hammer).

big ups to you for doing this, its got to be a real PITA with all of the players involved.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,067
5,976
borcester rhymes
I'm glad to see how involved you are with the process, and how transparent you are being. Plenty of kickstarters retiring off of other peoples' "donations".
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
that video above proves that, sometimes, a big hammer does fix things (not for me tho. I destroy shit with a hammer).

big ups to you for doing this, its got to be a real PITA with all of the players involved.
My absolute favorite part of that video is at 1:26, where he gives the dropout a whap with the heel of his hand as the final adjustment. Done.

Thanks. Yes, it's a pain, but a lot of fun and learning. It's a completely new experience to be "owner of a bike company". I kinda like it so far.
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
I'm glad to see how involved you are with the process, and how transparent you are being. Plenty of kickstarters retiring off of other peoples' "donations".
One thing I learned from my previous production experience is, the more involvement, the better. While this might sound like I am pandering to my diminished but still strong control freak tendencies, it just pays to at least have some peripheral involvement in all of the processes. That is why big brands have production engineering staff on site at the factory. The minute you turn your head and think "it's pretty straightforward from here, they got this" is when something comically but critically stupid will happen and all of a sudden you have to take a hammer to the DT to get the suspension to move (true story about prior production).

As for the transparency, while I am less than willing to share certain technical details of my IP. I really wanted to share the process I'm going through. This is a cool new adventure. I mean, I just decided to pull a mountain bike company out of my, er, uh, thin air.....while I have some decent industry experience as a bike designer and "production" engineer, the rest of it is pretty new. I suppose I could say owning Brake Therapy and Therapy Components is a big help as well, but this is a whole nuther animal.

As far as ripping people off, not really my style. Besides, for the 80k I got from kickstarter, I couldn't even skip town...

I hate that KS has such a bad reputation. When I lamented to someone that I was gonna be a month late on delivery, they told me the average for KS is like 18 months late.

Obviously KS worked for me and gave me the funds to get these frames made. This really is a dream come true, as trite as that sounds.

My customers, I consider friends, supporters and riding buddies. I've done demo rides with half of them on their own trails. With any luck, I can ride with the rest as well. I am eternal grateful and indebted to these people to believe in me enough to give me their money UP FRONT, before anything exists, including any actual bike company to support it.

Think about it, this is actually a crowd funded bike company. If I had sold 2 bikes on KS, this wouldn't be happening. These guys are my investors, shareholders and supporters. I'm fully prepared to do whatever it takes to support them.

And I thought the story of my adventure would be interesting. To share the process, step by step. At some point, I will probably compile it all into some kind of start to finish??? article about starting a bike company. But I have to get some bikes delivered first.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,882
24,462
media blackout
One thing I learned from my previous production experience is, the more involvement, the better. While this might sound like I am pandering to my diminished but still strong control freak tendencies, it just pays to at least have some peripheral involvement in all of the processes. That is why big brands have production engineering staff on site at the factory. The minute you turn your head and think "it's pretty straightforward from here, they got this" is when something comically but critically stupid will happen and all of a sudden you have to take a hammer to the DT to get the suspension to move (true story about prior production).
this parallels my experience dealing with manufacturing in ASPAC. they can do some great stuff, but the more hands on / involved you are the better. there are times where communication needs to include simple things that may be obvious to us, but they won't do it unless explicitly directed.
 

shirk007

Monkey
Apr 14, 2009
499
354
this parallels my experience dealing with manufacturing in ASPAC. they can do some great stuff, but the more hands on / involved you are the better. there are times where communication needs to include simple things that may be obvious to us, but they won't do it unless explicitly directed.
I spent years working in automotive manufacturing for Honda. The same thing applies with MANY US and Canadian tier 2 and tier 3 suppliers. If it's not spelled out in clear and simple terms someone is going to find a way to screw it up.

Mind you all those screw ups make for lots of clean up work and lots of over time pay.
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
The Tubes,

have arrived. After much confusion.

This, really, is just the way it goes. You may recall that the tubing company emailed me last Monday telling me that tubes had been shipped on June 18, although by sea, not by air as specified by the frame factory.

After posting an update on Kickstarter, I emailed the frame factory, informing them of the impending tubing delivery, which you might have thought they already knew about.

Instead, they told me that the tubes had not been shipped and would only ship on July 3. I tried to verify with the tubing factory, get shipping documents and tracking info, but could not get a response. But then yesterday, July 3, I receive an email from the frame factory saying that yes, in fact they DID receive tubes on the 3rd after all!!

Hilarity and welding ensue. They are welding the CS and SS this week, while the TT and DT get mitred. Front triangle welding will commence some time next week.

I will pull the trigger on flights soon. For expense and efficiency sake, it's best not to spend any more time there than needed. But I certainly need to assemble the first frames and do the destructive testing. I do not plan or need to be there until all frames are finished, but i suppose it is possible. And I certainly plan to bring a couple back with me.

In the meantime, here's a pic of the SS and CS getting set up in a welding fixture.

cheers,

Brian
 
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dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,213
4,463
In the meantime, here's a good indication of what supporters of this kickstarter will see for bikes:

__Screen Shot 2017-07-05 at 3.54.28 PM.png
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,478
421
Wow, all the holds and delays must be driving you to some kind of paroxysm, a fit of temper, a hemorrhage of animosity perhaps. If I was one of your customers I'd certainly be throwing a hissy fit.

For some reason I cannot think of a better word for this conniption you must be feeling. It's like the link between the word and my feelings is missing.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,478
421
Bonus wordplay response:

Is Tantrum related to Huffy at all? Or are you both named after synonyms for bad temper coincidentally?
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Wow, all the holds and delays must be driving you to some kind of paroxysm, a fit of temper, a hemorrhage of animosity perhaps. If I was one of your customers I'd certainly be throwing a hissy fit.

For some reason I cannot think of a better word for this conniption you must be feeling. It's like the link between the word and my feelings is missing.
While the delays might be enough to pique a petulant if passionate display of peevishness, or perhaps result in dander being raised beyond the level of annoyance, up to that of exasperation, displeasure, ill humor, ill temper, impatience, indignation or even infuriation, I prefer to channel my anger and umbrage in more productive ways than indulging in a storm of temper, outrage, and acrimony, preferring to minimize my vexation and irritation at the situation.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,478
421
While the delays might be enough to pique a petulant if passionate display of peevishness, or perhaps result in dander being raised beyond the level of annoyance, up to that of exasperation, displeasure, ill humor, ill temper, impatience, indignation or even infuriation, I prefer to channel my anger and umbrage in more productive ways than indulging in a storm of temper, outrage, and acrimony, preferring to minimize my vexation and irritation at the situation.
A tip of the hat to you sir
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Super Latest Cool Update

Updates are a lot more fun now that things are picking up steam.....

Chain stays and seat stays are being welded AND heat treated this week. Down tubes, seat tubes and top tubes will be cut and mitred this week as well.

I'm relieved on the seat tubes. While it is a normal round tube, it has a proprietary S-bend that I had to open a mold for. This is actually the biggest visual change from the show/demo bikes, which had a straight seat tube. But those bikes also had 445 mm chain stay length. Like everybody else, you don't get something for nothing, so in order to shorten the chain stays (to 428 on the Meltdown), you have to give the rear wheel somewhere to go at 160 mm of travel.

At that, I was happy I could avoid some of the more complicated seat tube/BB shapes and structures that some other brands have to use to accommodate their suspension design. They are always heavier, rarely stiffer or stronger and certainly more expensive than good old tubes, even S shaped tubes. And the way the bottom of the seat tube ties into the BB lug and the top is braced by the Y in the top tube, it's pretty stout.

As if on cue, I just got this pic of the seat tubes arrival at the frame factory, wrapped in a bow. Along with this shot of the heat treat racks for the seat stays.

I will be in the factory the week of June 17. The first front triangles will be welded and heat treated by then. So I will be able to assemble the first frames, check out all of the clearances and functions. And then we put it on a test machine and distort it to hell and back. I'll get some videos of this.

I plan to spirit a couple frames back with me by the end of the week. I can't say for sure when this first batch of 60 frames will be completed, but I will probably ship the kickstarter frames by air, in 2 batches, as they come of the line.

cheers,

brian
ss on a jig s.jpg
ST present s.jpg
ss on a jig s.jpg
ST present s.jpg
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Those new seat tubes still dropper friendly?
Yes. The frames shown are size S (short). essentially, old school 16". Only 160 mm of insertion. Why do it this way? Any smaller and either thew saddle gets buzzed off or your dangly bits get....more dangly.

So, even though you can't slam the dropper all the way down, this still gives great standover for the shortest of legs (at a 405 mm reach).The "M" is esssentially a 17" with 190 mm insertion. The "L" at a 19" ST and 475 mm reach , has 240 mm of insertion.

I wanted to use shorter than normal ST lengths for those sizes, mostly to keep standover lower.
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
bringin the first 2 home. Bolted together like butter, almost as if somebody designed them that way. Considering every possible way it could go wrong as I started this week, I actually cried a little when the first one went together with no swearing. And then I sat and stared at it in stunned stunndedness.

Been a long strange trip....far from over. bu this is sofa king cool

b
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,882
24,462
media blackout

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
MONEY!!!!

ok, I just wired the final payment, including extra funds for air shipment, for 55 frames. It wasn't cheap, but here's the deal: ship by sea, one month. Ship by air, one week. I'm not waiting and I'm not making my customers wait.

When will everyone get their bikes? Obviously it will differ for everyone. The frames will come completely unassembled, unanodized and unpainted. But it is happening and I have a pile of parts waiting to bolt on.

I titled this update "Money". Here's the stack of money I used to make my final wire transfer. I had all of the kickstarter money in a separate account, to protect it from any co-mingling or misappropriation. So I had to withdraw cash to deposit in my biz account to do the transfer.

Don't think I'll be sweating this week out, checking tracking info by the hour.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,368
1,606
Warsaw :/
it can be hard to hold manufacturers in your supply chain accountable and enforce deadlines when you're a very small company and doing small volume with them. you're small change to them with minimal, if any, impact to their bottom line. they're more important to you than you are to them.
It's not only an issue of holding your manufacturers accountable but of bad forecasting. It's obvious there are going to be delays. Anyone who has ever ordered a bike knows there are always delays, even for big companies so small companies should take that into account. It's not surprising and I agree with Udi but that's because people want to be optimistic. It's the same reason we all have one friend who always gives super optimistic estimations on when he will meet you because it's what you want to hear and he will try to make it but will be late an hour

In Tantrum's defence, I haven't seen many other companies in the bike industry stick to their claimed timelines or delivery dates either. If there's one thing that is not fair to single him out for, it's definitely this. At least for two more weeks. :)

I hope it all works out in the end.
Well I waited around a year for my Legend.
 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Two weeks?
I just got notification that the frames have been shipped. They should arrive this week. I am prepping my powder coater to get them done and am amassing a big stack of parts to bolt on.....it's coming.

in the meantime, here's a video of my time in Taiwan building the first frames

 

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
It's not only an issue of holding your manufacturers accountable but of bad forecasting. It's obvious there are going to be delays. Anyone who has ever ordered a bike knows there are always delays, even for big companies so small companies should take that into account. It's not surprising and I agree with Udi but that's because people want to be optimistic. It's the same reason we all have one friend who always gives super optimistic estimations on when he will meet you because it's what you want to hear and he will try to make it but will be late an hour
I think forecasting is one of the hardest aspects. I have difficulty forecasting my own work progress, much less others.

When you throw in the fact that almost everyone has this problem, it seems, the delays just compound and overlap. The more suppliers, vendors or hands involved, each little delay steamrollers.

AND the optimism. The hardest thing in all of life is to under promise and over deliver............
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,368
1,606
Warsaw :/
I think forecasting is one of the hardest aspects. I have difficulty forecasting my own work progress, much less others.

When you throw in the fact that almost everyone has this problem, it seems, the delays just compound and overlap. The more suppliers, vendors or hands involved, each little delay steamrollers.

AND the optimism. The hardest thing in all of life is to under promise and over deliver............
The best way is to promise what you are shure off and leave margins for error everywhere. The less shure you are the bigger the margin should be.
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
For all the shit you have been given, I am glad to see you keep coming back and updating us on this. Even if none of the folks here are a current customer. So far, it appears, this is being done the right way even with the delays.