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Tariffs = Extra consumer costs?

daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,519
43
New York City
I wonder how much the bike prices will increase? Buy now or pay more later?

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/04/06/few-details-trumps-latest-proposed-tariffs#.WseZTojwaUk

Given the size of his latest punitive tariffs proposal, consumer goods — and bike-related products — are likely to be included.
WASHINGTON (BRAIN) — President Trump proposed late Thursday an additional $100 billion in punitive tariffs against Chinese imports, suggesting the president is looking to penalize approximately $400 billion in Chinese goods. About $505 billion in Chinese goods were imported into the U.S. in 2017.

The additional tariffs are a response China imposing tariffs on $50 billion of imported U.S. goods, which itself was the Chinese response to Trump's initial punitive tariff proposal included approximately 1,300 import categories valued at an estimated $50 billion.

Shortly after Trump's announcement, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer clarified the announcement, saying the tariffs would be levied on an additional $100 billion of imports rather than the president was looking for $100 billion in additional tariffs.

This suggests the U.S. will now levy tariffs on a total of $150 billion on Chinese imports, about a third of the Chinese products being imported. However, Lighthizer did not clarify the extent of the new round of tariffs in his news release Friday morning.

But Lighthizer did note that "any additional tariffs proposed will be subject to a similar public comment process as the proposed tariffs announced on April 3, 2018. No tariffs will go into effect until the respective process is complete."

While consumer goods, like clothing, shoes and bikes, were left out of the initial $50 billion tariff list released this week, the size of Trump's retaliatory move, targeting $100 billion additional import categories, suggests that some consumer goods will be affected.

Imports of bikes and components were mostly unaffected by Trump's initial tariff actionspelled out in Tuesday's list, but it's more likely these additional tariffs may be leveled against bike-related imports.
 

Electric_City

The orangutans are loose!
Apr 14, 2007
1,497
359
I just don't understand...











Why we sent all of our jobs overseas to lower the cost of labor, increase profit and leave employees hanging with empty pockets and lower paying jobs.

Ohhh, greed. Nevermind.

Bring the jobs back. Thank you Trump. You secured my job.

Ps. If you think that this is wrong, look at your dish towels, plates, refrigerator, TV, batteries, bikes, shoes, jeans, tools, shower curtain, furniture... Anything you own, and let me know how much is made by you, your family members or your next door neighbor.
 
Last edited:

Mr Lahey

Monkey
Sep 23, 2009
183
28
I just don't understand...











Why we sent all of our jobs overseas to lower the cost of labor, increase profit and leave employees hanging with empty pockets and lower paying jobs.

Ohhh, greed. Nevermind.

Bring the jobs back. Thank you Trump. You secured my job.

Ps. If you think that this is wrong, look at your dish towels, plates, refrigerator, TV, batteries, bikes, shoes, jeans, tools, shower curtain, furniture... Anything you own, and let me know how much is made by you, your family members or your next door neighbor.

Please post a photo of your personal bikes to support your opinion.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,439
73
I just don't understand...











Why we sent all of our jobs overseas to lower the cost of labor, increase profit and leave employees hanging with empty pockets and lower paying jobs.

Bring the jobs back. Thank you Trump. You secured my job.
.
Things effected by the last round of Tariffs: the best textile production machines

Things not effected by the last round of tariffs: finished textile goods

How, exactly, does this incentivize companies to reshore production?
 

Electric_City

The orangutans are loose!
Apr 14, 2007
1,497
359
Please post a photo of your personal bikes to support your opinion.
Devinci Wilson- Made in Canada
Devinci Spartan carbon- Who knows?
Ragley Blue pig- Taiwan

Trek Remedy- China or Taiwan
Iron Horse Sunday- "Supposedly" USA. The sticker said otherwise...
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,655
2,017
AK
I just don't understand...

Why we sent all of our jobs overseas to lower the cost of labor, increase profit and leave employees hanging with empty pockets and lower paying jobs.

Ohhh, greed. Nevermind.

Bring the jobs back. Thank you Trump. You secured my job.

Ps. If you think that this is wrong, look at your dish towels, plates, refrigerator, TV, batteries, bikes, shoes, jeans, tools, shower curtain, furniture... Anything you own, and let me know how much is made by you, your family members or your next door neighbor.
Because "making things" is not what we (the US) are good at. "Making things" are what emerging industrial nations are good at, ones with lots of population, resources, and generally lower standard of living that doesn't need to support everyone owning ford raptors.

When you "make things", it's a false pretense to think that you'll be able to sit there and pound out widgets until you can retire. There are some huge issues with this that many people just ignore. One is not everyone can do this, musculo-skeletal disorders (MSDs) attack certain segments of the population, even when the workplace takes extreme measures to prevent them. Some people are just more susceptible to certain patterns of work, so this work can wreck the hell out of your body and is not for everyone. Then, and this is the real important part, no matter how good you think your company is at making widgets, someone will always come along that can make widgets better, faster, more efficiently, lighter, etc. A certain amount of competition, even from international sources, is necessary to prevent stagnation and ultimate collapse. We saw the shit the US auto industry was making year after year in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Eventually they got their ass handed to them enough, but the damage was already done. To crank out widgets with the same machines at the same location with the same processes and same markets is simply not a sustainable model. That means that your jerb, yep, you guessed it, is not sustainable either. So basically you are hoping that you get on at the right time, don't get bought out, don't go bankrupt, and and a half dozen other things that you can't control. The only constant in business is change and the only way we get better is for the business to either keep growing/improving, or collapsing so new businesses can rise from the ashes, so to speak.

Ultimately, automation will replace the worker making the widget, but we aren't quite that far.

What we are good at is inventing new processes, new technology, new markets. This is where our economy should be leveraged. Invent the stuff that other nations will want and need. This is where we actually have any kind of chance of staying ahead, because one would be an idiot to think that the Chinese or anyone else can't draw steel at least as good as we can. Same thing on the more extreme end, China can make cars just as good as we can. Maybe not quite yet, but they'll be there soon, just like Hyundia did and the Japanese did before the Koreans. There's nothing there that they can't figure out or don't have the resources for. Once they do, they'll be able to sell all over their country and the world, and our isolationist policies that will have caused our companies to stop competing will mean our dollar goes down in value compared to the rest of the world, no one will invest in anything we do, and our general standard of life will decrease dramatically.

And of course the answer to your question is obvious, the reason we want to send everything offshore is we want as high as possible a standard of living as we can have and if it fucks over some people here and there, we don't care. How much would you sacrifice? No bike, maybe one older car, no computer? What if you truly had to pay the cost to have everything made here, providing good wages, etc. Would you actually accept that you can't live as you currently do?
 
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daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,519
43
New York City
Agreed this post could be somewhere else but remember everything on your Turner DHR Is made in China. Your next upgrade will cost you more with these Taffifs.
 

Mr Lahey

Monkey
Sep 23, 2009
183
28
Devinci Wilson- Made in Canada
Devinci Spartan carbon- Who knows?
Ragley Blue pig- Taiwan

Trek Remedy- China or Taiwan
Iron Horse Sunday- "Supposedly" USA. The sticker said otherwise...
So you aren't buying American made bikes from you, your relatives, or your neighbors. Those options exist just like buying all the other junk you listed.

Don't blame people for buying imported stuff if you aren't participating in your solution.
 

Gallain

Monkey
Dec 28, 2001
183
43
Sweden
European here... When (well we in Sweden anyway) want to order a bike from the US that costs say 4999$ we first have to add 14% in customs duty then 25% vat on that. So then it will cost 7123$... And we are a lot of people here that wants bikes... But that is also the reason that so few are made in the US that we buy here.
 

daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,519
43
New York City
European here... When (well we in Sweden anyway) want to order a bike from the US that costs say 4999$ we first have to add 14% in customs duty then 25% vat on that. So then it will cost 7123$... And we are a lot of people here that wants bikes... But that is also the reason that so few are made in the US that we buy here.
I always wondered about that. Can’t you visit the United States, taking a junk bike with you. Buy a new bike, ride it during your US trip and go back home with your new bike?
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,718
353
As anybody who has ever taken an economics class knows, everybody wins in a trade war. And they're very easy to win.
 

Gallain

Monkey
Dec 28, 2001
183
43
Sweden
I always wondered about that. Can’t you visit the United States, taking a junk bike with you. Buy a new bike, ride it during your US trip and go back home with your new bike?
Yes we could and people do all he time. But then you don't have any warranty... or you have to go back to US to get warranty. Most companies do not honour warranty across the pond, most are different companies. And the plane ticket, shipment, hotel costs..
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,655
2,017
AK
Yes we could and people do all he time. But then you don't have any warranty... or you have to go back to US to get warranty. Most companies do not honour warranty across the pond, most are different companies. And the plane ticket, shipment, hotel costs..
Well, for people that travel often, it could make economic sense to align it with a vacation, but yeah, not everyone is going to be able able to do that.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
2,794
804
UK
European here... When (well we in Sweden anyway) want to order a bike from the US that costs say 4999$ we first have to add 14% in customs duty then 25% vat on that. So then it will cost 7123$... And we are a lot of people here that wants bikes... But that is also the reason that so few are made in the US that we buy here.
Pretty similar in the uk
Vat 20% Import duty 14%
 

sethimus

scroll all you want!
Feb 5, 2006
2,288
249
not in Whistler anymore :/
Because "making things" is not what we (the US) are good at. "Making things" are what emerging industrial nations are good at, ones with lots of population, resources, and generally lower standard of living that doesn't need to support everyone owning ford raptors.

When you "make things", it's a false pretense to think that you'll be able to sit there and pound out widgets until you can retire. There are some huge issues with this that many people just ignore. One is not everyone can do this, musculo-skeletal disorders (MSDs) attack certain segments of the population, even when the workplace takes extreme measures to prevent them. Some people are just more susceptible to certain patterns of work, so this work can wreck the hell out of your body and is not for everyone. Then, and this is the real important part, no matter how good you think your company is at making widgets, someone will always come along that can make widgets better, faster, more efficiently, lighter, etc. A certain amount of competition, even from international sources, is necessary to prevent stagnation and ultimate collapse. We saw the shit the US auto industry was making year after year in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Eventually they got their ass handed to them enough, but the damage was already done. To crank out widgets with the same machines at the same location with the same processes and same markets is simply not a sustainable model. That means that your jerb, yep, you guessed it, is not sustainable either. So basically you are hoping that you get on at the right time, don't get bought out, don't go bankrupt, and and a half dozen other things that you can't control. The only constant in business is change and the only way we get better is for the business to either keep growing/improving, or collapsing so new businesses can rise from the ashes, so to speak.

Ultimately, automation will replace the worker making the widget, but we aren't quite that far.

What we are good at is inventing new processes, new technology, new markets. This is where our economy should be leveraged. Invent the stuff that other nations will want and need. This is where we actually have any kind of chance of staying ahead, because one would be an idiot to think that the Chinese or anyone else can't draw steel at least as good as we can. Same thing on the more extreme end, China can make cars just as good as we can. Maybe not quite yet, but they'll be there soon, just like Hyundia did and the Japanese did before the Koreans. There's nothing there that they can't figure out or don't have the resources for. Once they do, they'll be able to sell all over their country and the world, and our isolationist policies that will have caused our companies to stop competing will mean our dollar goes down in value compared to the rest of the world, no one will invest in anything we do, and our general standard of life will decrease dramatically.

And of course the answer to your question is obvious, the reason we want to send everything offshore is we want as high as possible a standard of living as we can have and if it fucks over some people here and there, we don't care. How much would you sacrifice? No bike, maybe one older car, no computer? What if you truly had to pay the cost to have everything made here, providing good wages, etc. Would you actually accept that you can't live as you currently do?
germany makes a lot of things...
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,655
2,017
AK
germany makes a lot of things...
Of which many are being farmed out overseas too, and their auto industry is a good example of what I'm talking about. Other auto makers are figuring out how to do what they do in Deutschland, in many cases doing it better. Germany does have some impressive manufacturing, but the key to this is new products, new technologies, new companies, etc. If those German companies sit and try to pound out the same products without changing them, they are doomed. Then that inherently means (to stay on top) that people will be displaced, lose their jobs, survival of the fittest, etc. I don't think it's realistic from the point of the manufacturing worker to hope/believe/assume that they'll be able to be employed by the same company for 20 years and build up a retirement and then retire. I think we are way past that reality, no matter if we bring jerbs back. If we bring back too many jobs, competition dies and we see bigger collapses, if we remain more competitive, businesses still die, but stronger ones emerge from the ashes, the manufacturing worker can't count on steady employment in either scenario IMO.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,309
1,171
01776
don't want this shit in the dh forum

likely will not add much to the cost of your components nor frames. it's small in the grand scheme of things. Adds a small amount to the cost of raw materials, and the actual production cost of frames is relatively low (unless they are handbuilt). The big cost is in the work, the design, the stickerz, and making cash moneys.

Either way, better to get with globalization, teh robots will take over soon and your big mac will no longer be hand assembled by immigrants.
 

Electric_City

The orangutans are loose!
Apr 14, 2007
1,497
359
So you aren't buying American made bikes from you, your relatives, or your neighbors. Those options exist just like buying all the other junk you listed.

Don't blame people for buying imported stuff if you aren't participating in your solution.
I CAN'T buy American bikes besides 3 brands. If they were made in the USA it would make my decision a lot easier. GG will probably be my next bike just because of the fact that they're made in the USA. That simple.

That's why I picked the next best thing and went with Hand made in Canada.
 

sethimus

scroll all you want!
Feb 5, 2006
2,288
249
not in Whistler anymore :/
Of which many are being farmed out overseas too, and their auto industry is a good example of what I'm talking about. Other auto makers are figuring out how to do what they do in Deutschland, in many cases doing it better. Germany does have some impressive manufacturing, but the key to this is new products, new technologies, new companies, etc. If those German companies sit and try to pound out the same products without changing them, they are doomed. Then that inherently means (to stay on top) that people will be displaced, lose their jobs, survival of the fittest, etc. I don't think it's realistic from the point of the manufacturing worker to hope/believe/assume that they'll be able to be employed by the same company for 20 years and build up a retirement and then retire. I think we are way past that reality, no matter if we bring jerbs back. If we bring back too many jobs, competition dies and we see bigger collapses, if we remain more competitive, businesses still die, but stronger ones emerge from the ashes, the manufacturing worker can't count on steady employment in either scenario IMO.
it's the education. everybody gets one here and doesn't need to pay for it. something the usa should try out once, maybe they can produce great things again and don't need to import SO MANY THINGS...
 

sethimus

scroll all you want!
Feb 5, 2006
2,288
249
not in Whistler anymore :/
Last edited:

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,543
317
SLO
Wonder if this is point of manufacture or shipment location? You can get about 70-80$ of a bike made in USA. Guess you could go with Michelin rubber and a high end saddle. Make it single speed and you can get to 100% I guess....
 

Mr Lahey

Monkey
Sep 23, 2009
183
28
Wonder if this is point of manufacture or shipment location? You can get about 70-80$ of a bike made in USA. Guess you could go with Michelin rubber and a high end saddle. Make it single speed and you can get to 100% I guess....

More than 70-80.

Aside from hardtail frames, GG, and a few others:

Complete set of carbon rims/ i9 hubs from Reynolds.

Industry 9 wheels (yes the rims are imported)

Enve Rims on Chris King hubs

Profile Elite hubs

King hubs, headset, and bb

Thomson stem, post clamp, and non dropper posts

Push 11-6 rear shock.

Correct me if I'm wrong aren't Cane Creek rear shocks and forks made in USA- maybe the MRP

Odi grips

Stan's sealant

Plenty of highend flat pedals.