[manimal]

I was told yesterday that my department would finally be getting Tasers. the command staff has been waiting on the results of the independent study performed by wake forest university baptist medical center.

link:

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/533938/

here's what the INDEPENDENT study found:

Tasers are safe.

“This study is the first large, independent study of injuries associated with Tasers. It is the first injury epidemiology study to review every Taser deployment and to reliably assess the overall risk and severity of injuries in real world conditions,” said William Bozeman, M.D., the lead investigator and an emergency medicine specialist at Wake Forest University School of Medicine. “The injury rate is low and most injuries appear to be minor. These results support the safety of the devices.”

In a review of nearly 1,000 cases, 99.7 per cent of those subjected to a Taser had mild injuries, such as scrapes and bruises, or none at all. Only three subjects (0.3%) suffered injuries severe enough to need hospital admission. Two had head injuries suffered in falls after Taser use. A third subject was admitted to a hospital two days after arrest with a medical condition of unclear relationship to the Taser. Two subjects died, but autopsy reports indicate that neither death was related to the Taser.

“This is the largest independent study to date, and the first to detail the medical effects of Tasers under real-world conditions,” said Bozeman. “With physician review of 100 percent of Taser uses, this study promises to give us the best information yet on the medical risks of these weapons.”........“The Taser is a weapon and it can clearly cause injuries and even deaths in some cases,” Bozeman said. “The question is ‘how likely is it to cause a significant injury” and whether that risk of injury outweighs the benefits it brings.”

the dead horse has been resurrected with factual representation.

 

[Reactor]

Tasers are safe.


the dead horse has been resurrected with factual representation.

I have no problem with taser use....as long as it's used for it's intended purpose, as an alternative to shooting someone with a gun. My only issue is with some departments who seem to think a taser is a compliance tool and will tase someone 3,4,5 time at the drop of a hat.

Edit: Here's a local example...

Arizona: tasered man falls from tree
An $8m claim was filed against the City of Mesa Police Department, Arizona, in the case of Bruce Bellemore, after he was allegedly left paralyzed in February 2004 when a police officer fired a taser at him as he stood in a tree. The shocks from the taser caused him to fall out of the tree onto his head. Bruce Bellemore was an unarmed suspect who had run from a house into a neighbouring garden, where he climbed the tree in order to escape from four guard dogs. At the time he was shot, he was already surrounded by four police officers, one of whom was pointing a gun at him, with the other three pointing tasers. Bruce Bellemore claims he told officers he was having difficulty climbing from the tree due to an injured wrist. Despite this, it is alleged, the fourth officer shot him once with a taser some 20 seconds after arriving on the scene and fired a second taser shot some 15-20 seconds later while Bellemore was convulsing from the first shot. The whole incident, from the time of the arrival of the first officer on the scene, to the time police called paramedics after Bellemore was on the ground, reportedly lasted no more than three and a half minutes. In a letter to the city authorities, Amnesty International said that use of the taser in the case appeared to constitute a grossly excessive use of force, amounting to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. Amnesty International also expressed concern at the speed at which the officer resorted to the taser, contrary to standards which require that force be used only as a last resort after non-violent measures have been exhausted, and in a manner designed to minimize damage and injury.

Bellemore’s lawyer said that he was concerned that there appeared to be no specific warnings or guidelines in police training manuals he had seen about the inherent risks involved in firing tasers at someone in a dangerously elevated position. An investigation into the incident by the Maricopa County Attorney’s office concluded in July 2004 that the officer involved "did not commit any acts that warrant criminal prosecution". The incident was reportedly under police administrative review at the time of writing.

The man won several million $$ from Mesa.

 

[manimal]

yeah, that's why i'm glad we waited so long. i'm pretty sure its use will be pretty high on the use of force continuum, probably on the same level as a baton/asp. i'm hoping it'll be ok'd to use on fleeing suspects because we've got several officers out right now for knee issues from foot chases. a taser can end that crap really quick. i'm a firm believer that it should not be used in a passive resistance situation to gain compliance, we have other tools for that. but as soon as someone blades off to me and gives me the "not going w/out a fight" stance....well....if the bad guy is crazy enough to fight me and obviously wants to harm me, i'm going to light him up w/ some electricity. it's not my job to take a hit for the team, it is my job to get people like that off of the street.


side note: i got to cruise around in a helo last night (its been 6 years since i've flown in one) to help the pilots locate the gang house we were hitting with a search warrant. i was all geared up in my swat stuff with the bad dog (big door knocker thingy) when my team leader asked me if i wanted to help out the pilots since the apartment was in my patrol area....i was like, "hells yeah!" man i miss flying! (we don't have a helo in our department, the highway patrol guys helped us out on this one since there were so many people/guns involved in this case)

 

[LordOpie]

...if the bad guy is crazy enough to fight me and obviously wants to harm me, i'm going to light him up w/ some electricity. it's not my job to take a hit for the team, it is my job to get people like that off of the street.

Except that not all cops are as awesome as you

Some should not be on the streets in uniform even with a nightstick. Of course, that's a seperate issue.

 

[Reactor]

yeah, that's why i'm glad we waited so long. i'm pretty sure its use will be pretty high on the use of force continuum, probably on the same level as a baton/asp. i'm hoping it'll be ok'd to use on fleeing suspects because we've got several officers out right now for knee issues from foot chases. a taser can end that crap really quick. i'm a firm believer that it should not be used in a passive resistance situation to gain compliance, we have other tools for that. but as soon as someone blades off to me and gives me the "not going w/out a fight" stance....well....if the bad guy is crazy enough to fight me and obviously wants to harm me, i'm going to light him up w/ some electricity. it's not my job to take a hit for the team, it is my job to get people like that off of the street.

We classify it as a "less lethal weapon". I completely agree with using the taser when there is a legitimate threat of physical violence. If it's a choice between a fight with a 6'3" suspect or a taser...well just about anyone would pick the taser.

 

[sanjuro]

I think the biggest concern about tasers is the lethality but the potential for torture.

While I think the use of tasers in a collegiate setting is hiliarious, since it is a very painful but non-lethal weapon, obviously it can be misused.

 

[Reactor]

Except that not all cops are as awesome as you

Some should not be on the streets in uniform even with a nightstick. Of course, that's a seperate issue.

That's the crux of the issue. It's not so much that using the taser is unsafe as it is over-using the taser is excessive force. I believe the taser is a lot safer than a gun, especially to bystanders. But if you wouldn't be using a nightstick or a gun on someone you shouldn't be using a taser either.

(I have to admit there is a some guilty pleasure in watching some out of control suspect throwing a fit in the back ot a patrol car getting lit up, but in that case they are actually a risk to themselves unless they calm down)

 

[Transcend]

That's the crux of the issue. It's not so much that using the taser is unsafe as it is over-using the taser is excessive force. I believe the taser is a lot safer than a gun, especially to bystanders. But if you wouldn't be using a nightstick or a gun on someone you shouldn't be using a taser either.

(I have to admit there is a some guilty pleasure in watching some out of control suspect throwing a fit in the back ot a patrol car getting lit up, but in that case they are actually a risk to themselves unless they calm down)

The problem with a nightstick or mace is that you have to be inside the kill zone to use it. With a taser, you can back off and be outside of the lethal area where the suspect can lunge with a knife etc, before you can react.

I'm all for idiots who run or attack cops or point guns etc being tazed.

 

[LordOpie]

I think it's funny that society accepts tasering a dude for being obnoxious, but the electric chair OMGWTFBBQNOWAY

 

[$tinkle]

I think the biggest concern about tasers is the lethality but the potential for torture.

during the recent confirmation hearings regarding whether or not mukasey regarded waterboarding as torture, i started to think about tasing & application of torture. i suppose anyone can abuse anything to the point of torture, but i believe we're left to trust law enforcement they've been properly screened & trained so that its use is at the proper location on the use-of-force continuum, as manimal has pointed out.

sure, you can find a point or two which drifts from the desired use, but we're talking 1000's of uses/day across the country. i maintain that while the possibility of torture (presumably out of frustration) exists, it's well outside the margin.

for those who refuse to submit to authority, light 'em up!

 

[binary visions]

I think it's funny that society accepts tasering a dude for being obnoxious, but the electric chair OMGWTFBBQNOWAY

Um, you don't see a little separation there given that one actually kills someone else?

I don't think it's the voltage that people don't like...

 

[Westy]

during the recent confirmation hearings regarding whether or not mukasey regarded waterboarding as torture, i started to think about tasing & application of torture. i suppose anyone can abuse anything to the point of torture, but i believe we're left to trust law enforcement they've been properly screened & trained so that its use is at the proper location on the use-of-force continuum, as manimal has pointed out.

sure, you can find a point or two which drifts from the desired use, but we're talking 1000's of uses/day across the country. i maintain that while the possibility of torture (presumably out of frustration) exists, it's well outside the margin.

for those who refuse to submit to authority, light 'em up!

For once we are in agreeance.

I could only imagine the cool stories I'd could have if I got tazed while sticking it to the man.

 

[LordOpie]

Um, you don't see a little separation there given that one actually kills someone else?

Ah, but the one that dies deserves it according to his peers.

 

[binary visions]

Ah, but the one that dies deserves it according to his peers.

That's ridiculous and totally irrelevant. I don't even quite understand where your train of thought is here.

 

[Westy]

 

[$tinkle]

That's ridiculous and totally irrelevant. I don't even quite understand where your train of thought is here.

i don't think he's saying all his peers decided the death penalty for him, just the ones too dumb to get out of jury duty & the ones who want to fry minorities.

 

[valve bouncer]

Manimal, tase yaself in the yambag and then give us a full report, ya know just for sh*ts and giggles.

 

[manimal]

i've been tased...just not in the twig/berries, i can't imagine how excruciating that would be!

being tased does have the benefit of leaving you with a feeling of utter muscle relaxation. your body contracts so hard when your hit that afterward you feel like you just had a swedish full body massage

 

[LordOpie]

i've been tased...just not in the twig/berries, i can't imagine how excruciating that would be!

being tased does have the benefit of leaving you with a feeling of utter muscle relaxation. your body contracts so hard when your hit that afterward you feel like you just had a swedish full body massage

you focking tease!

Tase me bro!

 

[syadasti]

Looks like the Brits are going with, "Don't tase me bro!"

http://www.janes.com/news/lawenforcement/pr/pr071011_1_n.shtml

Officer injured in Taser demonstration

11 October 2007

A roll-out of Taser for non-firearms-trained Met officers has been postponed after the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA) vetoed the plan.

A police officer in the US who volunteered to be the subject of a Taser demonstration has suffered possibly lasting damage, including spine fractures after receiving a five-second discharge, according to a respected medical journal.

The 38-year-old victim was rushed by ambulance to hospital where a scan showed he suffered compression fractures in his spine caused by muscle spasms triggered by being Tasered in a training class.

Nine weeks after his injury he has continued to report significant pain.

The officer's doctor, James Winslow, MD, of Wake Forest University School of Medicine in Winston-Salem, North Carolina said: 'In this case, the pain continued for a long time, leading the patient to reduce his work hours significantly.'

The case has now entered medical literature after being written up in the eminent American College of Emergency Physicians journal which released the details.

Supt Charlie Hill, staff officer to the ACPO police use of firearms working group, said the case underlined the need to move with caution until more can be discovered about the potential side effects of using Tasers.

 

[laura]

You make me laugh a lot.

 

[valve bouncer]

i've been tased...just not in the twig/berries, i can't imagine how excruciating that would be!

being tased does have the benefit of leaving you with a feeling of utter muscle relaxation. your body contracts so hard when your hit that afterward you feel like you just had a swedish full body massage

Dunno mate, don't think the judge is gonna be too impressed with the "I was just performing taser relaxation therapy on the victim your honour....22 times" line of reasoning.<----taser thread mandatory smilie.

 

[MikeD]

Frankly, I'm shocked.

 

[manimal]

ahahahahahahaha.....great subtle pun

 

[$tinkle]

No justification for using Taser on grandma

takes one old lady to ruin it for everyone.

 

[jimmydean]

Wait, "wake forest university baptist medical center" got to taser people? That's awesome. All in the name of baptist medicine.

 

[DaveW]

Well Christians have always had an interest in medicine.... All the way back to the inquisition.

 

[RenegadeRick]

My only issue is with some departments who seem to think a taser is a compliance tool and will tase someone 3... time at the drop of a hat.

You mean like this?

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/20/2062.asp
Police in Ozark, Alabama on Tuesday used a taser on a sober man who was having a diabetic seizure. A trio of police cruisers were called to the scene of a black Nissan truck and trailer pulled over on the side of the road near the intersection of Highway 231 and Marley Mill Road at around 4pm. James Bludsworth, 54, a man with no criminal record, was was slumped over behind the wheel. Because of his condition he was not responsive to police commands.

Police then fired tasers at the sick man three times.

Apparently his department thinks it is ok to use tasers for non compliance.

http://www.dothaneagle.com/gulfcoasteast/dea/local_news.apx.-content-articles-DEA-2007-11-09-0006.html
Bludsworth was released from jail on Tuesday after posting a $1,000 signature bond and blowing a .00 on a breathalyzer.

Bludsworth had been arrested and a Taser was used on him by Ozark police officers for non-compliance after Bludsworth refused to get out of his vehicle around 4 p.m. Tuesday. Bludsworth had been reported slumped over the steering wheel of his vehicle at the side of the Highway 231 and Marley Mill Road intersection.

Ozark Deputy Police Chief Myron Williams said ... at least three officers responded to the scene. He defended the department&#8217;s decision not to discipline any of the officers involved.

 

[Silver]

You mean like this?

How is that cop still employed? Guy has no alcohol in his system, got tazed for not getting out of the car (which he probably shouldn't have been driving in his condition, granted) and then the cop quite obviously lies after the fact and says he smelled alcohol? Yeah, uh huh...

That cop should be up on assault charges.

 

[Silver]

No justification for using Taser on grandma

takes one old lady to ruin it for everyone.

Well, you obviously can't expect a police officer to be able to avoid a hammer blow from an 82 year old dementia patient.

 

[RenegadeRick]

Well, you obviously can't expect a police officer to be able to avoid a hammer blow from an 82 year old dementia patient.

The punch line of this story is that officers were sent there for a well-being check on this elderly woman. Imagine how much more well (done) her being was after the addition of 50,000 volts.

 

[Reactor]

You mean like this?



Apparently his department thinks it is ok to use tasers for non compliance.

Yeah, the heads of those departments should be stripped naked, covered in bacon grease and tased until they drool, and dropped in grizzly bear country during mating season.

Using a taser in a situation where there isn't danger of bodily harm, or a suspect isn't fleeing the scene is an excessive use of force. Period.

 

[valve bouncer]

The punch line of this story is that officers were sent there for a well-being check on this elderly woman. Imagine how much more well (done) her being was after the addition of 50,000 volts.

She was obviously much more relaxed after it, you know how uptight some of those old folks can get.

 

[BMXman]

...wow I would still rather get tasered 3 or 4 times than shot...some of you really need a dose of reality...D

 

[valve bouncer]

...wow I would still rather get tasered 3 or 4 times than shot...some of you really need a dose of reality...D

Pay attention here mate, the whole thread is about how the taser is not being used as an alternative to shooting but as an easy way to gain compliance. I know you're Canadian now but you should have retained some residual smarts.

 

[manimal]

reminder: it was designed as a tool for "active resistance" and above, not just as an alternative to deadly force. "active resistance" usually brings a pretty good a$$ whoopin' with it from the man, i'd much rather take a taser jolt than have nice big lumps all over from a baton.

 

[MikeD]

You mean like this?

Oddly enough, the benchmark case on Constitutional use of force involved the cops and a diabetic who was freaking out...

 

[Wumpus]

MADISON, Wis. -- Don't `Tase' yourself, bro.

Adding insult to injury, the Madison Police Department issued a letter of reprimand after an officer was injured in the hand from accidentally discharging a Taser during a standard checkout procedure.

The incident happened July 31 but was revealed in a department report dated Nov. 1 and released Monday.

The department omitted the officer's name and gender, as it regularly does when it releases reports of officer reprimands.

According to a summary of the investigation, officers are required to make sure no air cartridges are loaded before testing the Taser gun at the start of each shift.

It's the air cartridges that propel the Taser's prongs, which deliver a jolt of electricity when they strike a target.

The officer's hand was injured in the incident, police spokesman Joel DeSpain said.

The failure to ensure the air cartridge wasn't loaded was a violation of department policy and constituted a disregard for safety, the report said.

 

[MikeD]

The failure to ensure the air cartridge wasn't loaded was a violation of department policy and constituted a disregard for safety, the report said.

"I know, I KNOW!" winces the guy with two prongs stuck deep in his palm...

 

[$tinkle]

The department omitted the officer's ... gender, as it regularly does when it releases reports of officer reprimands.

which is pretty much a dead give-away