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Teachers packin' in Texas!

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
Lollerskates....I like the part where they mention that some have suggested letting students conceal carry...I thought that's what they were trying to avoid...silly me.


"You have the right to bear arms, or arm bears. Whatever the hell you wanna do. If you're a hunter, you can have armor piercing bullets...WHY?!?!?! Is there some macho deer out there in a tank with a flak jacket, going, "You wanna piece of me? LET'S PARRRRR-TYYYY!!!"

-Robin Williams
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,652
686
Front Range, dude...
If Ihad known a teacher had the abilty to pistol whip me a flat blast my young ass, it may have stopped me from pulling all the dumb sh*t...nah, prolly wouldnt have.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
I wouldn't be comfortable with some of my old teachers having guns, some of them were a bit off their rocker
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
9,038
822
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui
Can't wait for the first racial discrimination case, when an Arab/Pakistani or other Muslim gets fired or denied the same right..... Or just plain shot by over zealous locals. :rofl:
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
16
Blindly running into cactus
i think it's a great idea. in an active shooter situation, an innocent person is shot (on average) every 18 seconds until the shooter is forced to turn his/her attention from shooting innocent people. the sooner another armed person can get in there and force the shooter to engage them instead of kids, the sooner innocent people stop dying. there are plenty of retired military/law enforcement types that teach who would be perfect for this responsibility.

the denial clubbers of the world would love to mock at this notion of teachers carrying guns but guess what....this is the threat we live with. we can't make the problem go away by putting some red/green placards in the windows...but we can lessen the potential casualty rate by being prepared to engage the bad guy as soon as possible.

research how most school shootings go down and you'll see the validity of my point
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
i think it's a great idea. in an active shooter situation, an innocent person is shot (on average) every 18 seconds until the shooter is forced to turn his/her attention from shooting innocent people. the sooner another armed person can get in there and force the shooter to engage them instead of kids, the sooner innocent people stop dying. there are plenty of retired military/law enforcement types that teach who would be perfect for this responsibility.

the denial clubbers of the world would love to mock at this notion of teachers carrying guns but guess what....this is the threat we live with. we can't make the problem go away by putting some red/green placards in the windows...but we can lessen the potential casualty rate by being prepared to engage the bad guy as soon as possible.

research how most school shootings go down and you'll see the validity of my point
no doubt, in a school shooting situation, they are useful, but as long as the teachers have psychological tests and are required to do a lot of shooting practice, similar to police officers, then I don't see a problem with them getting armed.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
i think it's a great idea. in an active shooter situation, an innocent person is shot (on average) every 18 seconds until the shooter is forced to turn his/her attention from shooting innocent people. the sooner another armed person can get in there and force the shooter to engage them instead of kids, the sooner innocent people stop dying. there are plenty of retired military/law enforcement types that teach who would be perfect for this responsibility.

the denial clubbers of the world would love to mock at this notion of teachers carrying guns but guess what....this is the threat we live with. we can't make the problem go away by putting some red/green placards in the windows...but we can lessen the potential casualty rate by being prepared to engage the bad guy as soon as possible.

research how most school shootings go down and you'll see the validity of my point
You're making the huge and unwarranted assumption that no teachers are crazy or will ever lose their cool. After all, no one who has ever been in the military ever had mental problems, right?

Schools shootings are so rare that it's stupid to make policy around them. Since we're doing really stupid things, why not a heavily armed paramilitary force in Sioux City dedicated to ensuring that dolphins don't rape cheerleaders in the city limits?

You can never be too safe...
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,509
2,803
You're making the huge and unwarranted assumption that no teachers are crazy or will ever lose their cool.

Schools shootings are so rare that it's stupid to make policy around them.
I can't remember the last time I heard about a teacher going ape**** and assaulting a student. But that's probably because only black kids get assaulted and the media doesn't report it, right?

As for the policy, as a father of school age kids, it isn't something I would seek out in my community but I wouldn't get sandy vag over it either. Then again, I grew up in a place where guns were commonplace and thus weren't treated like the boogeyman.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
16
Blindly running into cactus
You're making the huge and unwarranted assumption that no teachers are crazy or will ever lose their cool. After all, no one who has ever been in the military ever had mental problems, right?
but what does that have to do with a gun? you're making the assumption that giving someone a gun makes them a ticking time bomb when all it takes is about an hour of googling and you can learn how to make a bomb out of vaseline and ______. (ie: a dangerous person is a dangerous person regardless of the weapon) at some point we have to actually trust people to do what's best at the time they're needed; putting our heads in the sand pretending it won't happen works great until a bunch of kids die.

and yes, i would hope that the armed teachers would be required to pass all requirements to carry concealed in addition to mandatory rapid response/active shooter training at their school. (most law enforcement agencies do this training annually -or more in our case- so the teachers could just fill in with them on training)
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,509
2,803
and yes, i would hope that the armed teachers would be required to pass all requirements to carry concealed in addition to mandatory rapid response/active shooter training at their school. (most law enforcement agencies do this training annually -or more in our case- so the teachers could just fill in with them on training)

from the linked article:
Teachers who wish to bring guns will have to be certified to carry a concealed handgun in Texas and get crisis training and permission from school officials, he said.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
16
Blindly running into cactus
But that's probably because only black kids get assaulted and the media doesn't report it, right?
actually, it's usually the kid assaulting the teacher because teachers aren't allowed to defend themselves in the classroom and the media doesn't cover it nor does the kid receive any kind of major reprimand. around here they won't expel kids because it looks bad on the dropout numbers so they just move them around from school to school.

actual conversation i had with 14yr old last year while he was under arrest for robbery (by the way, he's 6'2", 220lbs)

Me: So why are you going to school X this year, weren't you at School Y last year?

Kid: Yeah, they moved me out of School X 'cause i beat up the teacher

Me: Why'd you beat up the teacher?

Kid: Man, that b!tch told me that if i didn't turn off my phone she was gunna take it (well within school policy to take cell phone)
so i told her to suck my d*** while i pushed her up against the wall and told her that i'd beat her ass right to her ear

Me: Huh...so they just moved you to another school for that?

Kid: yeah, i got an assault charge but juvy court didn't take it so, you know..here i am

Me: wow...you really are a dirtbag, no wonder you ran like a little b!tch when you heard the sirens coming. you can beat up on a 5' tall female teacher but you won't stand up to someone your own size huh? [edited for content] ;)

.....
but unfortunately, you'll only hear about the times when a teacher has had enough and snaps on a student like this...then the teacher is such a terrible person blah,blah,blah. bring back corporal punishment!!!
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
actually, it's usually the kid assaulting the teacher because teachers aren't allowed to defend themselves in the classroom and the media doesn't cover it nor does the kid receive any kind of major reprimand. around here they won't expel kids because it looks bad on the dropout numbers so they just move them around from school to school.

actual conversation i had with 14yr old last year while he was under arrest for robbery (by the way, he's 6'2", 220lbs)

Me: So why are you going to school X this year, weren't you at School Y last year?

Kid: Yeah, they moved me out of School X 'cause i beat up the teacher

Me: Why'd you beat up the teacher?

Kid: Man, that b!tch told me that if i didn't turn off my phone she was gunna take it (well within school policy to take cell phone)
so i told her to suck my d*** while i pushed her up against the wall and told her that i'd beat her ass right to her ear

Me: Huh...so they just moved you to another school for that?

Kid: yeah, i got an assault charge but juvy court didn't take it so, you know..here i am

Me: wow...you really are a dirtbag, no wonder you ran like a little b!tch when you heard the sirens coming. you can beat up on a 5' tall female teacher but you won't stand up to someone your own size huh? [edited for content] ;)

.....
but unfortunately, you'll only hear about the times when a teacher has had enough and snaps on a student like this...then the teacher is such a terrible person blah,blah,blah. bring back corporal punishment!!!
civil rights violation
 

BMXman

I wish I was Canadian
Sep 8, 2001
13,830
0
Victoria, BC
wow...why not just arm everyone...all school staff, janitors, principals, teachers aids, counselors, office staff etc...I mean you never know right!...just another reason my kids will never be attending an American school....D
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
16
Blindly running into cactus
civil rights violation
hahahahaha....you funny guy ;)

by the way, due to his tender age, his mommy was in the room during that conversation. when i went off on him, she looked him in the eye and started shouting comments like, "you know that's right! those officers should have shot your sorry a$$!"
oh what a world we live in. :twitch:
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,717
540
NC
you're making the assumption that giving someone a gun makes them a ticking time bomb when all it takes is about an hour of googling and you can learn how to make a bomb out of vaseline and ______.
I don't think that was his point at all.

The point is that if a teacher snaps, there is a weapon immediately at hand. Of course crazy people will just be crazy, but there's a big difference between someone crazy enough to dig through Google for bomb instructions, build the bomb, then place the bomb somewhere and trigger it, and someone who has a little fuse blow in their head while arguing with a particularly nasty student and pulls the gun out. How many people every day get pissed off and happen to have a gun, so they yank it out and shoot someone?

It's just something to consider before you place someone in what is potentially a very high stress situation with a weapon.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
I don't think that was his point at all.

The point is that if a teacher snaps, there is a weapon immediately at hand. Of course crazy people will just be crazy, but there's a big difference between someone crazy enough to dig through Google for bomb instructions, build the bomb, then place the bomb somewhere and trigger it, and someone who has a little fuse blow in their head while arguing with a particularly nasty student and pulls the gun out. How many people every day get pissed off and happen to have a gun, so they yank it out and shoot someone?

It's just something to consider before you place someone in what is potentially a very high stress situation with a weapon.
As opposed to that teacher who snaps and pulls his handgun and fires away except right now he'd be charged with carrying a concealed weapon as well as homicide?

I think it is an unfortunate circumstance that is no safe workplace today. Anyone could go postal in any environment, which is why Texas is considering arming their teachers.

I am not so worried about how Johnny is misbehaving so I blew him away, but when a student legitimately threatens a teacher, will it come down to gunshots?
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
16
Blindly running into cactus
I am not so worried about how Johnny is misbehaving so I blew him away, but when a student legitimately threatens a teacher, will it come down to gunshots?
i don't think that would be an issue, however, to help prevent the "heat of the moment" problems, why not have a secure lockbox for the weapon. kind of like the axe behind the "break in case of fire" glass. the ONLY reason i can vouch for arming teachers is in the event of an active shooter, be it a disgruntled kid or an organized terror plot (and don't think that's not coming); in that situation, a few seconds delay wouldn't likely change the ability of a trained teacher to engage the threat but it would give a bratty kid the chance to get out of the room in the even the teacher is the threat while the teacher is fiddling with the lock.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
31,213
4,484
Portland, OR
I'm waiting for the inevitable "Teacher shot and killed with own gun" headline that will surely follow. When I look back at the teachers I have had over the years, my Drivers Ed teacher is about the only one I couldn't take out. He was also the football coach and benched 475.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,717
540
NC
As opposed to that teacher who snaps and pulls his handgun and fires away except right now he'd be charged with carrying a concealed weapon as well as homicide?
Um. I think you're missing the point.

We can't prevent people from breaking the law. If a teacher illegally carries a gun into school and snaps and kills a student, that's not the same thing as deliberately crafting a situation where guns are in reach of the teachers at all times.

I can see both sides of this issue, but it's not unreasonable to be wary of introducing guns into the hands of civilians who work in a public and often stressful environment.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
Um. I think you're missing the point.

We can't prevent people from breaking the law. If a teacher illegally carries a gun into school and snaps and kills a student, that's not the same thing as deliberately crafting a situation where guns are in reach of the teachers at all times.

I can see both sides of this issue, but it's not unreasonable to be wary of introducing guns into the hands of civilians who work in a public and often stressful environment.
I guess it is the idea that confrontations change when one or both people have guns.

I don't own a handgun, but like most typical New Yorkers, I am unafraid to express their opinions within reason. And very few of my confrontations led to violence.

Now I give most gun owners the benefit of the doubt, which is that if comes down to yelling and screaming, it won't be settled with bullets.

However, there is a certain amount of fear and violence in inner-city schools, and I wonder then if guns were allowed in school, how these incidents will change.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,608
282
Walden Ridge
You guys are a bunch of sissies.

Criminals don't follow rules and laws. Why not enable citizens to defend themselves and the lives of others? It is the world we live in. Take it back.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
16
Blindly running into cactus
As does racisim and collective punishment..........
i'll revisit this post and your neg rep after our first inevitable Beslan style school attack when the nation is screaming for armed security in our schools.
you can't feel safe without being safe.

you might want to give this book a look see, even though you're safe in your little kiwi hut away from the scared-y-cats here in america :rolleyes:

http://www.terroratbeslan.com/
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
i'll revisit this post and your neg rep after our first inevitable Beslan style school attack when the nation is screaming for armed security in our schools.
you can't feel safe without being safe.

you might want to give this book a look see, even though you're safe in your little kiwi hut away from the scared-y-cats here in america :rolleyes:

http://www.terroratbeslan.com/
Well, that's a hard one to expect here. Beslan had 31 armed rebels attack an entire school. From my knowledge, school shootings have never involved more than 2 killers.

While wide scale terrorist attacks are certain in the realm of possibility in US, I'm not sure how even several armed teachers is going to change the outcome. That seems like something for SWAT or HRT.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,214
16
Blindly running into cactus
Well, that's a hard one to expect here. Beslan had 31 armed rebels attack an entire school. From my knowledge, school shootings have never involved more than 2 killers.

While wide scale terrorist attacks are certain in the realm of possibility in US, I'm not sure how even several armed teachers is going to change the outcome. That seems like something for SWAT or HRT.
you'd be very surprised at how easily it could happen here. without going into detail, lets just say that there is a current and viable threat on our schools from a very dangerous organization. (and no, i'm not talking about bush)
if you hated this country and wanted to bring it to it's knees by stopping all commerce what would be the easiest target? kids. every parent would be frantically pulling their kids out of class, major business would come to a halt and people would be too scared to send their kids back to class until some extreme security measures were put in place which, in turn, would put a halt on the business world here as we know it.

unfortunately, as this nation has always responded, it will take a catastrophe before anything is done about the problem.


and yes, having a few, well trained and armed teachers in an event like this could be enough to change the dynamic in a school long enough for the swat/hrt unit to respond.
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,652
686
Front Range, dude...
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. I agree with Manimal 100%. Further, a school is a soft target. Very soft. Throw in a few fire arms and some training for a select few teachers and staff, and you have hardened the target and made a small fortress. We respond to three schools as initial response force, and they would be very difficult to handle in an active shooter scenario.

Who knows schools? Teachers who have been there forever. I am not advocating them hunting down a shooter, but for them to assume the Weaver stance (Blast from the past...) and hold thier ground, protecting themselves and thier students.

Either way, you are playing the odds, and I would rather arm a teacher who has been vetted through a fairly stringent process, then have to worry about another Columbine or NIU.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
90
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
I'm getting confused.....who's attacking again? A student in the class or a terrorist group?

Because I really don't see Mrs. Crabapple (being paid how much a year?), making herself a target by waving a gun around, only to take a bullet for her students....
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
It's cooties isn't it?


Cooties from girls.....
Nope, it's clergymen.

You know what an elementary school must look like to one of them? I'd imagine it's like a hive dripping with honey does to a hungry bear.

All those beautiful little pink assoles all in one place like that...
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
31,213
4,484
Portland, OR
I think kids should arm themselves, too. Think of Red Dawn and how awesome that was. If the Russians take over Georgia, then that leaves all the other Southern states open for additional attacks.
 

BMXman

I wish I was Canadian
Sep 8, 2001
13,830
0
Victoria, BC
maybe it's just me but I thought teachers were EDUCATORS not enforcers...I mean really if it's that big of a concern...install detectors at all the doorways and hire a security staff...guns in the actual classroom is just a situation waiting to go bad....D