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Team vs WC

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,536
20
Montana
I've been riding a 2010 Boxxer Team for 3 seasons now. Id like to give the WC a try. How different do they feel? Has anyone went from a Team to a WC and hated the WC? How about reliability compared to the Team? Please only post if you have time on both. Any and all info please.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,661
958
Seattle
Don't. The WC has less good small bump compliance and less midstroke support. The only plus is that it's a bit lighter. If you want to improve the fork, drop an Avy cart in it. Or dump it and buy a Dorado.
 

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,219
1,152
Italy/south Tyrol
Buy a RC and put the AVY card in.
Look out for some offers. It's possible to get them under 500€/$.
Best package possible.
 
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eater

Monkey
Nov 25, 2005
473
1
Switzerland
the dorado is a dream i ride it now since 6 mt first with a dobermann than a M9 and now on my V10c..
i never feel small bumps in my hands and the best is the middle travel support, you can blow down steep deep steps the fork doesn't dive this fork stays in form.
steep berms like on the red track in "Morgins PDS" with his monster brake pumps after you blow out of this track the only thing you have is a BIG BIG Smile on your face and you are prod of your DORADO!!

the hydraulic bottom out system is fantastic to!
i never feel that the dorado is wobbly in the front axle area.
 
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tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
893
15
wc is the same as the team damping wise just air sprung with all it's compromises. I'd recommend a 888 evo

Lighter and stiffer, buttery smooth and easily tuneable
 
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norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,686
391
Warsaw :/
I'm on the 2010 WC with the Avy cart and to be honest if you asked the same question a yeah ago I'd recommend it but for the last year I've had more problems with the solo air I can imagine. If I get a good priced dorado I'll probably jump on it right away.
 

eater

Monkey
Nov 25, 2005
473
1
Switzerland
the 888 is okay for rider less 88kg otherwise the spring steps are hugh.. the next harder, or only harder spring is for rider over 100kg there is nothing for rider between 88-95kg.
 

tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
893
15
But you can additionally reduce oil levels or take out the o-rin or the whole va-unit to get the fork more linear.

Just recently a guy in a german forum weighing 105 kg complained that the extra hard spring feels to hard.
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,445
392
Fenton, MI
I'd like some info on the boxxer team and boxxer world cup.

Get an avy cart, a dorado, or a 888.....completely irrelevant advice to the original question.

Britt I have 2 fox 40's and love them both. (2011 and 2012) More irrelevant advice to join the irrelevant advice bandwagon.
 

tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
893
15
Well it's save to say that the only benefit is that it would be lighter because the damping cartridge is essentially the same. An air spring can never be as linear and offer small bump sensivity like a coil spring.

The only benefit could be that if he buys a newer my I think they made some supple changes to the damper and the earlier boxxer models hat quality/alingnment issues resulting in stiction.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
5,382
175
Lima, Peru, Peru
air spring suck.
i have a coil boxxer (used to run an air totem). difference is night and day.
friend of mine got a wc to replace his team. ditched the wc after 5 rides and went back to coil.
 

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,536
20
Montana
hmmm. This is pretty much what I thought. I have a older Lyrik Air DH and its alright but nothing like the coil 66 I had before. I thought maybe they had this air thing figured out by now. I love my Boxxer team, since I had Go-Ride go through it last year. Kris gave it a special tune.

Dorado hu?
 

tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
893
15
Well if you get rid of the stiction issues you can get an air spring near to a coil spring in respect to small bump compliance. At least my dual air revelation feels very supple. But you can't get the same linearity out of an air spring even with the most sophisticated damping because the difference in behaviour of the two materials on a malecular basis.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,686
391
Warsaw :/
Well if you get rid of the stiction issues you can get an air spring near to a coil spring in respect to small bump compliance. At least my dual air revelation feels very supple. But you can't get the same linearity out of an air spring even with the most sophisticated damping because the difference in behaviour of the two materials on a malecular basis.
To be honest the stiction wasn't that much of a problem for me. Reliability is if you ride some dust. Mud is ok but dust kills you.
 

tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
893
15
I've seen a few pros running a solo air. At least it looked like one from the outside. But steel stanctions?
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,776
929
There's a reason the pros run a boxxer with steel stanchions, and open bath damper.
If by 'the pros' you mean the imaginary people in your head...

Seriously though, who runs that setup? Steel stanchions would be nice and heavy.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
Oh I'm just f-ing with you.

But seriously, you can't fix the stiction. There bushings are just machined to worse tolerances than other forks so they asked them to be too tight. Well I guess you could push the living sh-t out of them.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
5,382
175
Lima, Peru, Peru
Oh I'm just f-ing with you.

But seriously, you can't fix the stiction. There bushings are just machined to worse tolerances than other forks so they asked them to be too tight. Well I guess you could push the living sh-t out of them.
around here, we dissasemble the fork, and hone (by hand) the bushings until they are buttery smooth.
i havent done that to mine... but some of my most ocd friends do.

isnt it nice, after dropping almost $1000 on a bicycle fork; you have to rebuild it (because they sometimes dont come with enough oil/grease) and hone the bushings.
 
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ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
5,382
175
Lima, Peru, Peru
Weight really isn't a factor. I was just curious what else is lighter.
in long downhill runs (as in continuous rides over 6000ft vertical); air-springs crap the bed bad.

over 10000ft high, you have to adjust the pressure. then, as you loose altitude, the fork starts diving bad.... by the time you are under 5000ft, you have to pump up the pressure again.
in between, sometimes, when riding hard... the air-spring pressure apparently changes (maybe due to heat) and damping fades (fading happens to coil shocks too). other times we have 50ºF temperature changes in a single ride (when you drop from the highlands to sea level). all these factors make air-springs very unpredictable.
 
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kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,522
2,198
In my pants
in long downhill runs (as in continuous rides over 6000ft vertical); air-springs crap the bed bad.

over 10000ft high, you have to adjust the pressure. then, as you loose altitude, the fork starts diving bad.... by the time you are under 5000ft, you have to pump up the pressure again.
in between, sometimes, when riding hard... the air-spring pressure apparently changes (maybe due to heat) and damping fades (fading happens to coil shocks too). other times we have 50ºF temperature changes in a single ride (when you drop from the highlands to sea level). all these factors make air-springs very unpredictable.
Careful. I was told on ridemonkey that the difference in atmospheric pressure accross 6-7k of elevation isn't something that anyone would ever be able to feel in an air fork. :D
 

Raingauge

Monkey
Apr 3, 2008
692
0
Canadia
I rode a 2010 EVO Ti for a weekend. I only weigh ~160lbs and it brake dove like a mvtha fvcker. The Boxxer Team has been way easier to tune for me.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
around here, we dissasemble the fork, and hone (by hand) the bushings until they are buttery smooth.
i havent done that to mine... but some of my most ocd friends do.

isnt it nice, after dropping almost $1000 on a bicycle fork; you have to rebuild it (because they sometimes dont come with enough oil/grease) and hone the bushings.
Smart man. But ya, it seems like many forks, regardless of mfg. do not come with adequate lubrication.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
Also, after riding my new Avy 888, I can't believe more riders aren't getting 888 RCV's/CR's and just swapping out the damper. Those avy carts are amazing.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,522
2,198
In my pants
I'm just waiting for someone to build an aftermarket air piston that doesn't stick :D

I've had both a team and am riding a WC now. The team is definitely easier to ride tired or just on slower tighter terrain, but as long as I'm riding strong, I don't really miss it.