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Tech News: Do Burned CDs Have a Short Life Span?

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Do Burned CDs Have a Short Life Span?
John Blau, IDG News Service
Tue Jan 10, 8:00 AM ET


Opinions vary on how to preserve data on digital storage media, such as optical CDs and DVDs. Kurt Gerecke, a physicist and storage expert at IBM Deutschland, has his own view: If you want to avoid having to burn new CDs every few years, use magnetic tapes to store all your pictures, videos and songs for a lifetime.

"Unlike pressed original CDs, burned CDs have a relatively short life span of between two to five years, depending on the quality of the CD," Gerecke says. "There are a few things you can do to extend the life of a burned CD, like keeping the disc in a cool, dark space, but not a whole lot more."

The problem is material degradation. Optical discs commonly used for burning, such as CD-R and CD-RW, have a recording surface consisting of a layer of dye that can be modified by heat to store data. The degradation process can result in the data "shifting" on the surface and thus becoming unreadable to the laser beam.

"Many of the cheap burnable CDs available at discount stores have a life span of around two years," Gerecke says. "Some of the better-quality discs offer a longer life span, of a maximum of five years."

Distinguishing high-quality burnable CDs from low-quality discs is difficult, he says, because few vendors use life span as a selling point.

Similar Limitations
Hard-drive disks also have their limitations, according to Gerecke. The problem with hard drives, he says, is not so much the disk itself as it is the disk bearing, which has a positioning function similar to a ball bearing. "If the hard drive uses an inexpensive disk bearing, that bearing will wear out faster than a more expensive one," he says. His recommendation: a hard-drive disk with 7200 revolutions per minute.

To overcome the preservation limitations of burnable CDs, Gerecke suggests using magnetic tapes, which, he claims, can have a life span of 30 years to 100 years, depending on their quality. "Even if magnetic tapes are also subject to degradation, they're still the superior storage media," he says.

But he's quick to point out that no storage medium lasts forever and, consequently, consumers and business alike need to have a migration plan to new storage technologies.

"Companies, in particular, need to be constantly looking at new storage technologies and have an archiving strategy that allows them to automatically migrate to new technologies," he says. "Otherwise, they're going to wind up in a dead-end. And for those sitting on terabytes of crucial data, that could be a colossal problem."
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
not news...use good media for yr archival needs, not some CompUSA-branded generic stuff you get for a 10-20% discount.

btw, i've had some stamped (ie, non-burned) cds go tits up too...do a search for 'bronzing' and you will see what i mean.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
narlus said:
not news...use good media for yr archival needs, not some CompUSA-branded generic stuff you get for a 10-20% discount.

btw, i've had some stamped (ie, non-burned) cds go tits up too...do a search for 'bronzing' and you will see what i mean.
I have vinyl records from the 30's that still sound great.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,162
1,261
NC
Breaking news!

New computer created that is small enough to fit inside a house!

Who the hell publishes these stories as "news"? Mr. John Blau of the IDG News Service clearly hasn't heard of this new-fangled creation called a search engine which will show these facts to be long-established and widely known.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,248
408
NY
N8 said:
I have vinyl records from the 30's that still sound great.
ditto

Hey have you tried converting any to digital?
I've got a ton of great stuff I'd like to convert. I'm just not sure the best way of going about it.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
I have "stamped" CD's that are 20 years old that still work great.

On the other hand I have had home-burned CD's that lasted less than a year in my car.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,162
1,261
NC
Personal archived data should be refreshed at least every 3-5 years anyway. Even on tape. Obviously that's not practical for businesses but for personal use, there's no reason not to do it.

"If the hard drive uses an inexpensive disk bearing, that bearing will wear out faster than a more expensive one," he says. His recommendation: a hard-drive disk with 7200 revolutions per minute.
Can you even buy a hard drive that's not at least 7200 RPM now? Besides laptop drives, I mean?
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
stosh said:
ditto

Hey have you tried converting any to digital?
I've got a ton of great stuff I'd like to convert. I'm just not sure the best way of going about it.

No I haven't. I have some cassette tapes I'd love to get trasfered to digital and cleaned up too, but have no idea on how to get that done.
 

Morryjg

Mr. Ho Jangles
May 9, 2003
905
0
Littleton
stosh said:
ditto

Hey have you tried converting any to digital?
I've got a ton of great stuff I'd like to convert. I'm just not sure the best way of going about it.
I ran a line into my sound card from the stereo and used Audiograbber to record everything and convert it to MP3. You can't run directly from the turntable into your soundcard because the signal coming off of the turntable is so low. There are quite a few programs out there to record stuff off vinyl. Just do some searching. I think there was a thread about it here in the lounge not too long ago that had some suggestions.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,248
408
NY
Morryjg said:
I ran a line into my sound card from the stereo and used Audiograbber to record everything and convert it to MP3. You can't run directly from the turntable into your soundcard because the signal coming off of the turntable is so low. There are quite a few programs out there to record stuff off vinyl. Just do some searching. I think there was a thread about it here in the lounge not too long ago that had some suggestions.
Cool thanks!

I'll have to look into it.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,162
1,261
NC
manhattanprjkt83 said:
So are we talking about dvdr's as well? They use the same "dye" to store the media...If there is much merit to this article, some of our backup solutions might not be so safe...
All burnable media is impermanent. Backups should be refreshed every few years.

Every few years, though, there is usually a new backup solution that has greater capacity so this shouldn't be a big deal. Burned DVDs can be burned onto new dual layer DVDs, at 2 old DVDs to one new one. Dual layer DVDs will be burned onto blu-ray media in a few years, at 2-3 dual layer DVDs per blu-ray disc.

Those will, in turn, be burned onto dual layer blu-ray discs at 2 blu-ray discs per dual layer disc.

It's a never ending cycle but sacrificing one weekend every 3 years to refresh your backups is a pretty small time investment.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,162
1,261
NC
For reference:

1 DVD = 6.26 CDs
1 dual layer DVD = 2 DVDs
1 Blu-Ray disc = 5.3 DVDs
1 dual layer Blu-Ray disc = 2 Blu-Ray discs

The net result of this is that you can store 66.7 CDs on one 50GB dual layer Blu-Ray disc. And storage is doing nothing but getting bigger.

Seems like a pretty minor inconvenience to refresh your backups, especially considering you usually will want them compatible with current hardware anyway. Yes, I realize Blu-Ray isn't available yet, but it's coming and it's coming soon.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,162
1,261
NC
You don't need a really nice sound card to record audio. Your current sound card will likely work fine.
 

SK6

Turbo Monkey
Jul 10, 2001
7,586
0
Shut up and ride...
binary visions said:
You don't need a really nice sound card to record audio. Your current sound card will likely work fine.
True, but for the best qualities from a home recording aspect, the audigy card is a must for recording music from an LP.

The PC Stosh has would work just fine, but the sampling rate of the standard on board sound is very low, and very limiting. Not that they are bad, but for any AV application, the on-board sound, or generic sound cards, are not the way to go.

We could always discuss the use of a real nice DA converter and the use of fire-wire to accompany the appropriate sound card...:D
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,660
1,237
Nilbog
binary visions said:
For reference:

1 DVD = 6.26 CDs
1 dual layer DVD = 2 DVDs
1 Blu-Ray disc = 5.3 DVDs
1 dual layer Blu-Ray disc = 2 Blu-Ray discs

The net result of this is that you can store 66.7 CDs on one 50GB dual layer Blu-Ray disc. And storage is doing nothing but getting bigger.

Seems like a pretty minor inconvenience to refresh your backups, especially considering you usually will want them compatible with current hardware anyway. Yes, I realize Blu-Ray isn't available yet, but it's coming and it's coming soon.
Dual Layer Blue Ray :drool:
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,248
408
NY
binary visions said:
You don't need a really nice sound card to record audio. Your current sound card will likely work fine.
IE my onboard audio?
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
sirknight6 said:
The PC Stosh has would work just fine, but the sampling rate of the standard on board sound is very low, and very limiting. Not that they are bad, but for any AV application, the on-board sound, or generic sound cards, are not the way to go.
maybe i'm completely up my own a-hole, but isn't the sampling rate the same for all wav files? 44.1 kHz, 16 bit?
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,841
19
So Cal
binary visions said:
It's a never ending cycle but sacrificing one weekend every 3 years to refresh your backups is a pretty small time investment.
Very good point. And I am now making more back ups on different types of media.
 

SK6

Turbo Monkey
Jul 10, 2001
7,586
0
Shut up and ride...
narlus said:
maybe i'm completely up my own a-hole, but isn't the sampling rate the same for all wav files? 44.1 kHz, 16 bit?
nope. Actually, the files that get sent for mastering are huge wave files and at least ours was 32 bit, but that is the super high end recording studio stuff. The actual sampling rate can vary, depending on how important the higher end quality recording you want. The end result though ends up at 16 bit.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
sirknight6 said:
nope. Actually, the files that get sent for mastering are huge wave files and at least ours was 32 bit, but that is the super high end recording studio stuff. The actual sampling rate can vary, depending on how important the higher end quality recording you want. The end result though ends up at 16 bit.


'superhigh audio'? i can sample @ 32bit using CoolEdit Pro on my home laptop....you still have to playback @ 16 bit, and conform to the orange book standard for wav files.

i found this out the hard way after 'ripping' various lps under the 32 bit setting, and then wondering why i had ear-piercing audio upon playback (when played using CoolEdit it sounded fine, but on a burned cd or the like...it turned me into phil spector.

 

SK6

Turbo Monkey
Jul 10, 2001
7,586
0
Shut up and ride...
narlus said:
'superhigh audio'? i can sample @ 32bit using CoolEdit Pro on my home laptop....you still have to playback @ 16 bit, and conform to the orange book standard for wav files.

i found this out the hard way after 'ripping' various lps under the 32 bit setting, and then wondering why i had ear-piercing audio upon playback (when played using CoolEdit it sounded fine, but on a burned cd or the like...it turned me into phil spector.

LOL!!! well, yeah it can happen. You could actually take your wave files and run it through a plug-in compressor/limiter...
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,162
1,261
NC
Bump for a little more information.

I've been doing some looking into real evidence for CD-R lifespans, rather than this hogwash article where some idiot screams that he found out CDs only last for 3 years like it's new news. It's crap anyway, since it's just not that simple - I have burned CDs that are 7+ years old that still work today. I also have CDs that have died after a couple years.

I still stand by refreshing your CD collection every few years, but for those who are paranoid or genuinely need an archival solution, I have found a lot of good evidence for these:

http://store.mam-a-store.com/standard---archive-gold.html

They seem to resist breakdown much better than standard CDs. The place claims that their highest quality Gold Archival CDs will last for 300 years - I doubt it, but hey, it probably means it'll last for a safe 50 years at least :)

They're very expensive, of course, but they're not intended as a general-use disc. Burn it, put it in a closet, and forget it. How much is your data worth, after all? More than a few bucks for a DVD, I hope.

Also, keep in mind that cheap burners will burn cheap DVDs/CDs. Don't buy a $15 CD burner and expect it to burn error-free discs.