[slyfink]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-gun-shots-1.3957686

I don't know where to post this, so I figured I'd create a new thread.

I'm at a loss for for words... what good does this do?! wtf is wrong with people...

 

[Kevin]

Im surprised about two things.
First is how it took so long for something as retarted and stupid like this too happen.

Second is that it happened in Canada and not like Texas WTF...

 

[Westy]

Im surprised about two things.
First is how it took so long for something as retarted and stupid like this too happen.

Second is that it happened in Canada and not like Texas WTF...

We are slso making Canada great again.

 

[Toshi]

One of them sounds Muslim himself from that name. Could be run of the mill Sunni v Shiite sectarian violence as is rampant, well, everywhere.

 

[Sandwich]

Dammit trump. I thought the US had the corner on unnecessary gun violence. This is not making America great, we need to step it up!

Eh, I'm sure there'll be another workplace shooting in a few days.

 

[slyfink]

Second is that it happened in Canada and not like Texas WTF...

In many ways, Quebec is very similar to Texas. The logic leap of claiming "sovereignty" based on linguistic and cultural background, and these types of actions is not that great, imo.

But I'm obviously showing my biases, and it's very early on in our understanding of the underlying causes of this... as Toshi pointed out, there are many possible alternative explanations...

 

[Kevin]

Good points. I think I even hope it was Muslims that did it just cause it wouldnt spark a potentionally huge shit show...

 

[slyfink]

Back to one suspect. Turns out the person with the Arabic name was a witness.

Suspect was a loner, apparently heavily bullied in high-school. Those sorts of feelings, mixed in with Quebec nationalism are a volatile mix. sad.

 

[FlipSide]

It happened very close to where I live and it's a tragedy.

As of now, it seems the most probable cause was that the guy is an absolute fucktard weirdo that was a known troll on facebook, often targeting organizations welcoming refugees, as well as feminist groups. Basically some kind of internet tough guy who decided to buy an AK-47 and kill muslims in a Mosque. He is a University student who studied Anthropology and Political Sciences.

It simply makes no sense at all...

 

[slyfink]

i should probably add nuance to my posts. as I read it, I seem to lay blame on independantists. I don't think indenpendatists are all violent racists. Like any group of people, you got your good guys and your crazies. I just think that certain elements of their discourse can whip up the more "fragile" elements of society into a frenzy. maybe that had nothing to do with this person's motivation. it's far too early to know... But just like FlipSide said, and like what happened in Charleston, this is a tragedy.

 

[Pesqueeb]

I don't think indenpendatists are all violent racists.

Forgive me if I'm wrong as my knowledge of Quebecois separatism is....spotty, but isn't this kind of like the Republican Party? Not all Republicans are racist, but if you're a racist, you vote Republican. I was under the impression that being a separatist pretty much guaranteed you were a right wing loon.

 

[slyfink]

Forgive me if I'm wrong as my knowledge of Quebecois separatism is....spotty, but isn't this kind of like the Republican Party? Not all Republicans are racist, but if you're a racist, you vote Republican. I was under the impression that being a separatist pretty much guaranteed you were a right wing loon.

Oh man, that's a loaded question, and obviously, books have been written about the topic... *Disclaimer* the following is just my opinion... It's not like I'm a historian or political scientist... But... imo and ime, separatism is actually a very big basket. In my view, there's two main "compartments".

There is a very left wing part of the group, that are (by US standards) hard core socialists. Their dream is that of a socialist secular society living in French within North America. They feel that there needs to be a strong role for the government to protect the language, and this government must have the means to do this, so they believe in "nationalized" industry (e.g. HydroQuebec). But they are open to other cultures, and willing to work to find a way to integrate diversity while preserving the core beliefs of secularism and French. Personally, I am closer to that worldview than any other, though I feel this can be achieved within Confederation, as part of Canada. It's also pretty much the status quo there right now.

But there's also a group of separatists that are very insular. Quebecers have a very strong and rich culture and heritage, and some people have not been exposed very much to outside cultures, and feel very threatened by the (very real) possibility of cultural assimilation. Instead of celebrating differences and embracing diversity, while sustaining their own uniqueness, there is a portion of the population that wants to shut the borders, or require any new immigrants to look, act and think like them (adhere to a charter of Quebec values...) And IMO that's where the racism lies. They see citizenship as binary: one of us, or not one of us. And in that context, there isn't much room for the cultural mosaic that is actually developing in the major urban centres in Quebec right now. So they resent the "other" for taking over "their" country. They identify as a group based on language and culture, not "race" per se, but really, what is race if not culture, language, and generally looking the same? So yeah, i think this part of the basket is racist...

There's obviously a whole broad spectrum of people and beliefs, and simplifying it down to a small paragraph is probably not helpful or fair, but I've known enough of the racist types in my lifetime to firmly believe that this group exists, and it's not insignificant in numbers. I'll admit, it's very difficult to find the balance between being proud of your heritage and celebrating your "uniqueness", while at the same time accepting other cultures into your own, and not losing the essence of what makes you, you... but this is (obviously) not the solution, even though it can seem the only logical "endgame" to that system of beliefs.

Now whether that is what is at play here, I can't say, so this kind of discourse is probably out of place. But sometimes, as was the case with Charleston, you just know deep down what the motivations were.... or maybe that discourse was just an excuse for acting on their murderous delusions. But either way, the result is the same, and it's very sad.

 

[Jozz]

Very well put Mr. Sly Fink.

 

[Pesqueeb]

There is a very left wing part of the group, that are (by US standards) hard core socialists. Their dream is that of a socialist secular society living in French within North America. They feel that there needs to be a strong role for the government to protect the language, and this government must have the means to do this, so they believe in "nationalized" industry (e.g. HydroQuebec). But they are open to other cultures, and willing to work to find a way to integrate diversity while preserving the core beliefs of secularism and French. Personally, I am closer to that worldview than any other, though I feel this can be achieved within Confederation, as part of Canada. It's also pretty much the status quo there right now.

TIL I'm a separatist. No wonder I hate freedum©

 

[jimmydean]

The Muslim ban is working!!! They are attacking Canada because they can't get into the US. Sorry Canada. - The Donald.