[Toshi]

an interesting read:

http://www.iht.com/articles/537261.html

a bit of an annoying layout that tries to prevent copy and paste...

Nationalism has been the most important force in modern history, resisting and outlasting all totalitarianisms. It easily merges with religious fundamentalism, which is another way to affirm identity. It makes use of terrorism because this is the weapon of the weak. But nationalism is what it is all about. After all, what has driven U.S. policy since Sept. 11, 2001, if not outraged nationalism?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."


— Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials



I like the many truths in that quote.

nationalism-religion, or anything that bonds nation is used to agitate it for the personal or cause or interest of its leaders.
for the purpose that Goering explained.

Makes all so much obvious perfect sense.

 

[Toshi]

what if the rebels in chechnya, afghanistan, iraq never give up?

 

[chicodude]

they wont.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

what if the rebels in chechnya, afghanistan, iraq never give up?

they like... wont.

the only hope for peace would be to get to an agreement IMO.

either that, or fight to dead, which wont happen. because to kill al rebels, you would have to raze quite a few countries completely.
Plus it doesnt guarantee anything, because they will pop somewhere else probably.

so its all about some agreement, like israel abandoning "occupied" territories by judging of the US and UN. plus a good US hand-washing.
that will pretty much fix most things between arabs and the US.

in the case of chechnya, man that is just too hairy to know where to start to pluck.

 

[Toshi]

so its all about some agreement, like israel abandoning "occupied" territories by judging of the US and UN. plus a good US hand-washing.
that will pretty much fix most things between arabs and the US.

in the case of chechnya, man that is just too hairy to know where to start to pluck.

al qaeda's beef is with israel and the middle east. afghanistan, iraq and chechnya all seem to have a separate resolution: us getting out of there and giving them true self-determination. i think we should vacate the premises while allowing asylum to those who wish to emigrate to the u.s.

 

[LordOpie]

darn, can't post in the thread cuz the first rule of the internet was already broken.

 

[Toshi]

darn, can't post in the thread cuz the first rule of the internet was already broken.

http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/aa073101a.htm

"The First Rule of the Internet Is Access
But What About Children?"

 

[LordOpie]

godwin's rule... I'm not even supposed to mention it, but for you, my jew-brother, I will.

 

[Silver]

Opie, be a sport and explain to me the difference between the Goering quote and some of stuff that I heard from the Attorney General after 9/11, would you?

 

[Toshi]

godwin's rule... I'm not even supposed to mention it, but for you, my jew-brother, I will.

but he didn't invoke hitler directly...

about me being a jew-brother, i did go to the dalton school when i lived in nyc (age 1-9), a school whose student body is and was overwhelmingly jewish.

 

[LordOpie]

i didn't say Alex was wrong in the comparison, now did I? I'm just saying... the rules

 

[LordOpie]

about me being a jew-brother, i did go to the dalton school when i lived in nyc (age 1-9), a school whose student body is and was overwhelmingly jewish.

I knew that. Not which school, but your sorted past. Either you mentioned it here or I visited a personal link of yours and you mentioned it there. I don't remember, you're not fascinating enough to stalk on a regular basis.

 

[Toshi]

I don't remember, you're not fascinating enough to stalk on a regular basis.

i'm not sure if i should be pleased or disappointed

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

i didn't say Alex was wrong in the comparison, now did I? I'm just saying... the rules

What are the odds of a hitler´s reference probability being a flat 1 in the very first post??

did i just won the lottery??? is the universe about to collapse? did i just broke the time-space knit?? are our monitors going to explote??

 

[Changleen]

What a stupid law. Sounds like a bit of Jewish quazi-facism to me. WTF shouldn't I mention Hitler if I like? It's a perfectly reasonable comparison to make to a lot of people these days. Godwin sounds like a bit of a dick.

 

[LordOpie]

Sounds like a bit of Jewish quazi-facism to me.

yes, because jews don't want you to mention nazis... we'd rather you just forget the whole thing. Or better yet, please believe it didn't even happen.

 

[Changleen]

Opie, it's clearly an attempt at 'meme' censorship, as the authour put it - can't you see that? 'Ignore this part of History' - WTF? Screw you. HITLER taught us some important lessons, and one of the people I might like to compare HITLER to is Ariel Sharon. I really can't get over that this dude tried to pull that crap. EVERYONE REMEMBER HITLER - IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. Fvck your stupid censorship 'law'.

 

[Toshi]

calm down, Changleen. sheesh. it's not a law in any but name. it's merely a metric from the old days of usenet, where you could tell if any thread, political or not, had descended into a full on flame fest by whether hitler had been brought up yet.

 

[LordOpie]

total.Threadjack++;

I'm a god! :devil:

 

[Changleen]

Sorry Toshi - Your original question is a good one. I would say that in most cases History shows us that people arn't totally unreasonable, and only in a few cases, such as HITLER, or the Romans, has any group actually ever tried for world dominaton. Most rebel groups arn't so deluded to think that they would ever have a shot at that, and even a cursory internet search shows that Al Qu'aida or the Chechen Rebels both have published objectives.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Sorry Toshi - Your original question is a good one. I would say that in most cases History shows us that people arn't totally unreasonable, and only in a few cases, such as HITLER, or the Romans, has any group actually ever tried for world dominaton. Most rebel groups arn't so deluded to think that they would ever have a shot at that, and even a cursory internet search shows that Al Qu'aida or the Chechen Rebels both have published objectives.

ironically, this thread ended up according to that law.
and i was ridiculizing its validity.

anyway, back to playing grand prix legends, in my first girlfriend-less saturday night in a loooooooooong time.

 

[valve bouncer]

total.Threadjack++;

I'm a god! :devil:

Bah.....you're not even fit to clean Shirley's toilet in the threadjack department. :mumble: Where is that little man-slut anyway?

 

[Toshi]

Bah.....you're not even fit to clean Shirley's toilet in the threadjack department. :mumble: Where is that little man-slut anyway?

he needs to come back and reply to my living in hawaii thread ink:

 

[fluff]

total.Threadjack++;

I'm a god! :devil:

C'mon Loopy, hardly a god if you have to resort to Godwin's law after Nazi's have already been mentioned.

Plus which Changling seems so easy to wind up these days...

What's the biggie with Hitler anyway, Stalin killed more people and the Aussie completely wiped out Tasmania's indigenous people. We did a pretty good job on the Scots too.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

C'mon Loopy, hardly a god if you have to resort to Godwin's law after Nazi's have already been mentioned.

Plus which Changling seems so easy to wind up these days...

What's the biggie with Hitler anyway, Stalin killed more people and the Aussie completely wiped out Tasmania's indigenous people. We did a pretty good job on the Scots too.

yeah, cain killed in % more people than hitler. when killing his brother, he wiped out 25% of the world population. no bigger genocide since then.

 

[Toshi]

What's the biggie with Hitler anyway, Stalin killed more people and the Aussie completely wiped out Tasmania's indigenous people. We did a pretty good job on the Scots too.

good question. stalin doesn't get the name recognition in the u.s. since most of his victims were russians (? i think), plus i know of no catchphrase for his doings.