[N8 v2.0]

Some Gitmo Prisoners Don't Want to Go Home
Mar 06 6:46 PM US/Eastern
BEN FOX
Associated Press Writer

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico

Fearing militants or even their own governments, some prisoners at Guantanamo Bay from China, Saudi Arabia and other nations do not want to go home, according to transcripts of hearings at the U.S. prison in Cuba.

Uzbekistan, Yemen, Algeria and Syria are also among the countries to which detainees do not want to return. The inmates have told military tribunals that they or their families could be tortured or killed if they are sent back.

President Bush has said the United States transfers detainees to other countries only when it receives assurances that they will not be tortured. Critics say such assurances are useless. The U.S. has released or transferred 267 prisoners and has announced plans to do the same with at least 123 more in the future.

Inmates have told military tribunals they worry about reprisals from militants who will suspect them of cooperating with U.S. authorities in its war on terror. Others say their own governments may target them for reasons that have nothing to do with why they were taken to Guantanamo Bay in the first place.

A man from Syria who was detained along with his father pleaded with the tribunal for help getting them political asylum _ in any country that will take them.

"You've been saying 'terrorists, terrorists.' If we return, whether we did something or not, there's no such things as human rights. We will be killed immediately," he said. "You know this very well."

It is impossible to know how many of the detainees, most held for years now without being charged, fear going home. The U.S. military does not comment on individual cases, and the detainees generally are not in a position to offer any evidence of persecution as they plead their cases before the tribunals.

A Saudi identified only as Yasim, who said he attended an al-Qaida training camp in Afghanistan and was jailed in his country for selling drugs, told the tribunal that after being repeatedly interrogated at Guantanamo, he fears his fellow prisoners as well as others back in Saudi Arabia.

"I can't go back to my country. I have been threatened to be killed by many people," he said, according to the transcripts, which the Pentagon released Friday in response to a Freedom of Information Act Lawsuit filed by The Associated Press.

A detainee from Uzbekistan told the tribunals in December 2004 that his father and uncles were jailed for their Muslim faith in his native country and said he fears the rest of his family would be tortured if he returned.

The prisoner shrugged off the threat to his own safety in Uzbekistan, where the government has clamped down on Islamic groups which are not sanctioned by the state.

"I'm not afraid to die. We all belong to Allah and we shall return to him," he said.

This Uzbek's fate is unknown, as is that of almost every other detainee whose names are no longer blacked out when they appear in the hearing transcripts. The Bush administration has not said who has been held in the prison it opened in January 2002, and does not announce when or where individual detainees are released.

What the Pentagon has said is that 187 prisoners have been released, and 80 others have been transferred to prisons in more than a dozen countries, including Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Russia, Bahrain and Pakistan. An unknown number of these prisoners were later released, but many languish in other jails, again without charges, let alone trials.

"We have no authority to tell another government what they are going to do with a detainee," Pentagon spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Flex Plexico told the AP a year ago when asked about dozens of Pakistani prisoners transferred home for continued detention.

The personal threats that detainees may face after leaving Guantanamo Bay pose a human rights challenge to the United States, which has stopped bringing new prisoners to the camp and is under international pressure to close it altogether.

"This policy of handing over prisoners to countries that the U.S. challenges on their human rights abuses is a sham and it opens the United States to charges of hypocrisy around the world," said Rep. Edward Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat who has sought passage of a bill that would ban the U.S. from sending prisoners to other countries to face torture.

In the case of one group of prisoners, Muslims from western China known as Uighurs, the U.S. has struggled to find a solution.

A military tribunal has determined that five are "no longer enemy combatants" and can be released from Guantanamo Bay. The U.S. agrees they could face persecution back in China but so far has not found a third country to take them.

For now, the Uighurs are being kept at Camp Iguana, a privileged section of the prison with televisions, stereos and a view of the Caribbean.

A Uighur told a military tribunal that he feared going back to China so much, he considered trying to convince the panel that he was guilty, according to a hearing transcript.

"If I am sent back to China, they will torture me really bad," said the man, whose name did not appear in the transcript. "They will use dogs. They will pull out my nails."

Two of the Uighurs are appealing a federal judge's rejection of their request to be released in the United States, where a family in the Washington suburbs has offered to take them in.

"Home is China, and in China you disappear into a dungeon and no one ever hears from you again," said their lawyer, Sabin Willett. "These guys are not a risk to anyone. They should be released here."

 

[noname]

Very interesting N8, I do feel for those that we are having to release to possibly (i.e. likely) hostile situations, but I must say, under no circumstances would I want any of them released here. If you knew what it takes to get someone sent to gitmo you wouldn't want them here either. Heck, I wouldn't even wish them to be boarded up with Loco or MisterClean. these are people who were willing to die for their cause, or were organizing others to similar ends. maybe we can just buy a small island and set them there, film it, and call it Lost on Mohumads island.

 

[Transcend]

If you knew what it takes to get someone sent to gitmo you wouldn't want them here either.

What, you mean being Muslim?

 

[valve bouncer]

What, you mean being Muslim?

Noname has obviously forgotten about the hundreds released from Guanotanamo who were only guilty of being muslim in a built up area but got turfed in the clink anyway. I wonder how much compo those guys got for their false imprisonment.

 

[DaveW]

If you knew what it takes to get someone sent to gitmo you wouldn't want them here either.

Yeah right, there have been a lot of reports about how some of these people were picked up...... quite a few were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
60% thought to not be terrorists or taliban

and I do question the locking up of kids



Hmmmm....

Seventy-five of the 132 men, or more than half the group, are -- like Farouq Ali Ahmed, the subject of National Journal's accompanying story -- not accused of taking part in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners. (The 75 include 10 detainees whom the U.S. government "no longer" considers enemy combatants, although at least eight of the 10 are still being held at Guantanamo.) Typically, documents describe these men as "associated" with the Taliban or with Al Qaeda -- sometimes directly so, and sometimes through only weak or distant connections. Several men worked for charities that had some ties to Al Qaeda; Farouq lived in a house associated with the Taliban.

Story here

 

[noname]

What, you mean being Muslim?

that's one of the most infantile statements that I have seen yet on this subject. Of coarse there are some people who end ujp there that shouldn't be there, just as you would end up in the police station if you where in a house when they raided if they pulled out a large quantity of cocaine or something, even if you had nothing to do with it. When you're dealing with people who want you dead, and are willing to kill you, themselves, and any innocents around in the process, you don't take chances. As for children, many children are trained to kill, or have you not seen the kids running around with RPGs and AK-47s? they are also taught to lie to the U.S. knowing that they will not receive harsh treatment(relative to what they consider harsh). Lastly, if you knew the recidivism rate of those relaeased only to be recaptured during a later operation.......... or maybe I just live too close to all this.......

 

[DaveW]

Lastly, if you knew the recidivism rate of those relaeased only to be recaptured during a later operation.......... or maybe I just live too close to all this.......

Ok lets see some evidence of this guantanamo recdvism rate thanks, it's the first I've heard of it.


And as a side note I have to admit if I was hauled into your sh!thole cuban prison for something I was innocent of, when I got out I'd be keen to start shooting US troops and contractors too. You use barbaric treatment....and you think they or their family won't hate your guts afterwards? Get real!

 

[Transcend]

that's one of the most infantile statements that I have seen yet on this subject. Of coarse there are some people who end ujp there that shouldn't be there, just as you would end up in the police station if you where in a house when they raided if they pulled out a large quantity of cocaine or something, even if you had nothing to do with it. When you're dealing with people who want you dead, and are willing to kill you, themselves, and any innocents around in the process, you don't take chances. As for children, many children are trained to kill, or have you not seen the kids running around with RPGs and AK-47s? they are also taught to lie to the U.S. knowing that they will not receive harsh treatment(relative to what they consider harsh). Lastly, if you knew the recidivism rate of those relaeased only to be recaptured during a later operation.......... or maybe I just live too close to all this.......

You go on living in that culture of fear and ignorance. Nearly 50% of those captures have turned out to not even be remotely related to terrorist organizations. They just happen to be muslims living in th emiddle east (whoa, now there's a shocker).

 

[noname]

Ok lets see some evidence of this guantanamo recdvism rate thanks, it's the first I've heard of it.


And as a side note I have to admit if I was hauled into your sh!thole cuban prison for something I was innocent of, when I got out I'd be keen to start shooting US troops and contractors too. You use barbaric treatment....and you think they or their family won't hate your guts afterwards? Get real!

there's an awful lot that goes on that you don't hear about, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Just because it's not in the NY times doesn't mean it isn't happening(or as Jason Blair taught us, if it's in the Times it may not be happening either sheesh) Like Dan Rather and MemoGate, the media has proven itself unreliable, I meant what I said when I said I live a little too close to this issue, Norfolk/Virginia beach area born and raised with a multitude of friends in various government/intel/military/civil service jobs. A lot of what I know is what I hear first hand when hanging out with these people, unfiltered by the media. Yes there are plenty of people who get swept up in seaches/ raids. If you noticed I gave an example above of just how things like that happen here all the time. It's tragic when it happens, but better safe than sorry when they are my friends, kids I grew up with, over there. The real tragedy is the few innocents who do get swept up in this because they can't be released where they came from for obvious reasons. As far as brutality goes, like cutting off heads, hands, feet, or castrating women. Killing girls who have been raped because they have been dishonored? Hmmmmm.... Get some perspective. These people kill more innocent civilians than they do soldiers all the while disguised as civies(which, according to the Geneva Convention gives us the right to shoot on sight as spys) and we're the brutal ones. Hmmmmm.........Glad I'm not Canadian

 

[Changleen]

crap

Wow, you are so... American. How self centred can you get? Remind me again why you're locking up Muslims?

 

[jimmydean]

How about being held without charges for, I don't know, say 4 years? That's ok, right? I mean, I'm sure they have don SOMETHING wrong, they just haven't figured out what it was yet.

I'm sure the defense department will get around to finding something worth charging these folks with. I'm sure in a few more years, nobody will remember why they were locked up for in the first place and we can just mke something up at that point, right?

 

[noname]

Wow, you are so... American. How self centred can you get? Remind me again why you're locking up Muslims?

hmmmm.... Glad to be thank you! is that all it's about to you, locking up muslims? Let's add some perspective shall we........ marine barracks in beriut, Achille Lauro, Flight 185, '93 world trade center bombing, madrid train bombing, uss Cole, Kolbar Towers, Iranian hostage crisis of the late 70's, Paris street riots, Bali night club bombing, the continuing Isreal PLO conflict, etc. etc. Common thread?....... All muslim fundamentalists. Hmmmmm.......They've been fighting the west for a long time, longer than the west has been willing to acknowledge. Granted there is much strife and discontent that goes all the way back to WWI and WWII, granted it would be better if all countries minded their own business and didn't meddle in others affairs, but the situation is what it is now and must be dealt with. Obviously you people think you can stick your head in the sand and wait for them to go away, or maybe you can tell Osama you like him and he'll be cool. These people hate the values espoused by Western civilizaton and feel that they can't co-exist with them, not all muslims, but we aren't after all muslims, just the ones trying to kill us. Keep deluding yourselves, it makes me happy :love:

 

[Echo]

yada yada

And you don't think the "West" has done anything to provoke this hatred?

 

[stinkyboy]

Maybe another Muhammad Ali movie will show the world how much we love Muslims?

 

[Changleen]

hmmmm.... Glad to be thank you! is that all it's about to you, locking up muslims? Let's add some perspective shall we........ marine barracks in beriut, Achille Lauro, Flight 185, '93 world trade center bombing, madrid train bombing, uss Cole, Kolbar Towers, Iranian hostage crisis of the late 70's, Paris street riots, Bali night club bombing, the continuing Isreal PLO conflict, etc. etc. Common thread?....... All muslim fundamentalists. Hmmmmm.......They've been fighting the west for a long time, longer than the west has been willing to acknowledge. Granted there is much strife and discontent that goes all the way back to WWI and WWII, granted it would be better if all countries minded their own business and didn't meddle in others affairs, but the situation is what it is now and must be dealt with. Obviously you people think you can stick your head in the sand and wait for them to go away, or maybe you can tell Osama you like him and he'll be cool. These people hate the values espoused by Western civilizaton and feel that they can't co-exist with them, not all muslims, but we aren't after all muslims, just the ones trying to kill us. Keep deluding yourselves, it makes me happy

Ah, the 'They hate freedom' argument. Well done.

How about the other side of the coin? How about the fact that since WW2 America and the west has been systematically economically and politically raping most of these places, helping keep millions of people living in 3rd world conditions and abject poverty, installing leaders who tow the American line, supporting Israel's wholesale slaughter of Palestinians whilst making a fuss everytime a Israeli is killed, Invading sovereign nations and generally abusing the crap out the middle east?

Or is all that OK? After all, these Ragheads don't deserve the same quality of life as white people eh?

 

[Transcend]

Common thread?....... All muslim fundamentalists. Hmmmmm.......

Invading a small country in the middle east creating 1800 civilians A DAY....American Emperialists and their coke addict, alcoholic, d student president!

American "police action" in Vietnam, various assasination attempts over the years, placing of puppet leadership in various countries, you get the idea. Hell, the US actually invaded southern CANADA at one point. It's always "legitimate" when seen from the side of the aggressors isn't it now?

Also - ever noticed how he looks strikingly similiar to the retarded kid from deliverance? I'm just sayin'...

 

[noname]

Ah, the 'They hate freedom' argument. Well done.

How about the other side of the coin? How about the fact that since WW2 America and the west has been systematically economically and politically raping most of these places, helping keep millions of people living in 3rd world conditions and abject poverty, installing leaders who tow the American line, supporting Israel's wholesale slaughter of Palestinians whilst making a fuss everytime a Israeli is killed, Invading sovereign nations and generally abusing the crap out the middle east?

Or is all that OK? After all, these Ragheads don't deserve the same quality of life as white people eh?

it's all about race to you isn't it? We're just after them because they're not white, absolutely rediculous. The resort of those with nothing substancial to say. If you actually read my post, I pointed out that I believe a lot of this stems back to the beginning and middle of the previous century when the middle east was divided up arbitrarily by Western politician placing people within a common boundary who really should have been kept separate. Many of these small countries are part of the dessimination of the former Ottoman Empire. It's not that they all hate each other, but that they want to live according to their interpretation of their religion and ethnic customs. When one group gets in power they try to oppress those groups opposed to them and you get much bloodshed in return. Those not in power live miserable lives subject to death at the displeasure of the authorities. But not all those countries obviously are like that. Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia(home to my Grandfather mind you) Dubai, Yemen, Pakistan, Kuwait, etc. all manage to get along without the incredible level of strife found in some other middle eastern countries. As far as quality of life is concerned, Dubai has a higher wealth per capita than the U.S. and we're not bombing them. Hopefully this port deal will go through then these politicos can stop grandstanding on capitol hill.......but I digress,...... to think that I condone or am out here actively cheering with pom-poms for this is rediculous, but is the typical type of reaction I expect from lefties who let emotions control their responses instead of reason. Of course there's bad sh*t going on, but the situation is what it is, and we are obligated to try our best to leave Iraq in the best shape we can. If innocent people some times get detained that's a tragedy, but should we then immediately release them to a community now suspicious and hostile to them back in their own countries or here in the states? The world is not as simple as you would think it is.............. Yes we support Isreal, Truman signed the papers recognizing Isreal as an Idependant nation, and now we have to deal with that. I just don't see how you can compare Isreal, who has been attacked multiple times and yet, upon defeating their enemy, always returned the land(until the last time when they wised up) to Palestine, whos goal is the erradication of Isreal(which has a sizeable Muslim population BTW).As far as keeping people in abject poverty, have you been to Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E., Jordan, Kuwait, Egypt, obviously not. Think people, think!

 

[noname]

killing around 1800 civilians A DAY hmmm if we had killed 1,642,500 people already..........think before you post random numbers makes you look less that bright:love:

American "police action" in Vietnam, various assasination attempts over the years,(don't forget Hugo Chavez) placing of puppet leadership in various countries, you get the idea. It's always "legitimate" when seen from the side of the aggressors isn't it now? Fixed that for ya

Also - ever noticed how he looks strikingly similiar to the retarded kid from deliverance? ink: I'm just sayin'...[/QUOTE]

 

[Transcend]

Casualties not deaths, typed that too fast.

You are seriously deluded. Way to tow that party line, bucko!

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

Yes there are plenty of people who get swept up in seaches/ raids. If you noticed I gave an example above of just how things like that happen here all the time. It's tragic when it happens, but better safe than sorry when they are my friends, kids I grew up with, over there. The real tragedy is the few innocents who do get swept up in this because they can't be released where they came from for obvious reasons.

There was a crime commited on your block. You and your entire block will be held indefinitely ... in another country.

 

[Changleen]

it's all about race to you isn't it? We're just after them because they're not white, absolutely rediculous. The resort of those with nothing substancial to say.

ink:

 

[Changleen]

If you actually read my post, I pointed out that I believe a lot of this stems back to the beginning and middle of the previous century when the middle east was divided up arbitrarily by Western politician placing people within a common boundary who really should have been kept separate. Many of these small countries are part of the dessimination of the former Ottoman Empire. It's not that they all hate each other, but that they want to live according to their interpretation of their religion and ethnic customs. When one group gets in power they try to oppress those groups opposed to them and you get much bloodshed in return. Those not in power live miserable lives subject to death at the displeasure of the authorities. But not all those countries obviously are like that. Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia(home to my Grandfather mind you) Dubai, Yemen, Pakistan, Kuwait, etc. all manage to get along without the incredible level of strife found in some other middle eastern countries. As far as quality of life is concerned, Dubai has a higher wealth per capita than the U.S. and we're not bombing them. Hopefully this port deal will go through then these politicos can stop grandstanding on capitol hill.......but I digress,...... to think that I condone or am out here actively cheering with pom-poms for this is rediculous, but is the typical type of reaction I expect from lefties who let emotions control their responses instead of reason. Of course there's bad sh*t going on, but the situation is what it is, and we are obligated to try our best to leave Iraq in the best shape we can. If innocent people some times get detained that's a tragedy, but should we then immediately release them to a community now suspicious and hostile to them back in their own countries or here in the states? The world is not as simple as you would think it is.............. Yes we support Isreal, Truman signed the papers recognizing Isreal as an Idependant nation, and now we have to deal with that. I just don't see how you can compare Isreal, who has been attacked multiple times and yet, upon defeating their enemy, always returned the land(until the last time when they wised up) to Palestine, whos goal is the erradication of Isreal(which has a sizeable Muslim population BTW).As far as keeping people in abject poverty, have you been to Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E., Jordan, Kuwait, Egypt, obviously not. Think people, think!

Who runs Saudi? Who runs Dubai? Where do they get their money from? How many people has Israel killed? As i pointed out before, and now you've yourself said, the middle east has been extensively manipulated by the west, in ways that are not good for it. Yet you still refuse to accept that the west has any reponsibility for creating the situation? You are deluded.

 

[Transcend]

There was a crime commited on your block. You and your entire block will be held indefinitely ... in another country.

Without charges being laid, without the right to a trial, without innocense presumed until proven guilty, with a hood on your head while kneeling.

 

[Changleen]

Without charges being laid, without the right to a trial, without inooncense presumed until proven guilty, with a hood on your head while kneeling.

And torture.

 

[noname]

Who runs Saudi? Who runs Dubai? Where do they get their money from? How many people has Israel killed? As i pointed out before, and now you've yourself said, the middle east has been extensively manipulated by the west, in ways that are not good for it. Yet you still refuse to accept that the west has any reponsibility for creating the situation? You are deluded.

You ask questions but I have heard nothing substancial from any of you just questions placed with confidance, but no facts. Just so you know, the Rockafellers discovered the oil in Saudi Arabia and notified a Tribal leader friendly to the U.S. of what it was and how they (the Saudis and the Rockefellers) could profit from it. I don't see you saying anything just asking, hmmm.... am I too challenging? Those who are US citizens are given trials btw. And I'll allow your pass for mistyping, if you allow that I can't spell worth a SH%T. I think I pointed out already that I am fully aware of the meddling nature of the west, probly a lot more than you are. There is nothing now that can change what has happened over that last 150 years, we deal with the hand we are dealt. As for a trial, there is no innocent until proven guilty in a military prisoner of war situation, it's actually not uncommon for a prisoner to be held until the end of hostilities, when this will end is anybodies guess. BTW if we ran Dubai would those nits in DC be throwing such a coniption over the port arangement? How many Israelis have been killed BTW? Sorry if they are more effective at combat, if I were getting my @ss kicked every time I started a fight, I wouldn't start any more fights. The Isrealis are willing to get along, so I don't consider them the problem.

 

[Changleen]

You ask questions but I have heard nothing substancial from any of you just questions placed with confidance, but no facts.

I know the answers, I'm wondering if you do.

Just so you know, the Rockafellers discovered the oil in Saudi Arabia and notified a Tribal leader friendly to the U.S. of what it was and how they (the Saudis and the Rockefellers) could profit from it.

So, as you say below again, the west has ****ed with these people and their lands and resources time and time again, and yet you refuse to accept any responsibility for the state of things as they stand? It's all the Muslims fault? They're just attacking us because they hate freedom?

I don't see you saying anything just asking, hmmm.... am I too challenging?

The only challenge is trying to read your block of non-formatted text. Try Paragraphs.

Those who are US citizens are given trials btw.

Oh, and that makes it all better for the 99.9% who are non US citizens?

And I'll allow your pass for mistyping, if you allow that I can't spell worth a SH%T. I think I pointed out already that I am fully aware of the meddling nature of the west, probly a lot more than you are. There is nothing now that can change what has happened over that last 150 years, we deal with the hand we are dealt.

By invading Afghanistan and Iraq? Hmm, yeah, that's BOUND to make things better.

As for a trial, there is no innocent until proven guilty in a military prisoner of war situation, it's actually not uncommon for a prisoner to be held until the end of hostilities, when this will end is anybodies guess.

WTF? So you really think what the US is doing is OK?

Seriously you need to learn to see things from both sides. Most of the 'points' you make are frankly stupid.

 

[Transcend]

As for a trial, there is no innocent until proven guilty in a military prisoner of war situation,

Only there is no war, and there never was one. There is the US invading other countries to try and impose it's beliefs on them, all the while rounding up civilians and shipping them off to Cuba.

POWs are enemy combatants. The US is taking CIVILIANS. There is no OPFOR here in case y ou haven't noticed, there is simply guerrillas who want their country back.

 

[noname]

I know the answers, I'm wondering if you do.That sounds like something a child would say when he has to ask but can't admit ignorance, So, as you say below again, the west has ****ed with these people and their lands and resources time and time again, and yet you refuse to accept any responsibility for the state of things as they stand?So now I'm peronally responsible for all this? Grow up man. It's all the Muslims fault? They're just attacking us because they hate freedom? Are you paying attention to anything I said, obviously not
The only challenge is trying to read your block of non-formatted text. Try Paragraphs. I like to challenge you.
Oh, and that makes it all better for the 99.9% who are non US citizens?Did I say it made thing s better? By invading Afghanistan(Legitimate)and Iraq? Hmm, yeah, that's BOUND to make things better. WTF? So you really think what the US is doing is OK? Did I say it was OK? No I didn't.

Seriously you need to learn to see things from both sides. Most of the 'points' you make are frankly stupid.

they would make more sense if you paid attention. I see the world for what it is now, not what I want it to be, I don't cry like a little girl or get snippy like a repremanded teen when I don't hear what I want either.
Like I said, the world is where it's at now and closing Gitmo and jumping out of Iraq will only worsen the situation. the US has been far more transparent than any other government in modern history on how this war has been conducted. Or did you forget that those prisoner photos were originally released by the Defense dept? Just because you hate this country or administration, is that a reason to project imature hostility towards me for acknowedging the situation the way it is. This whole thread started over Gitmo, and like I said, I trust my friends far more than I trust the media when they tell me what's going on in there, especially considering one of them was there to oversee some of the interogators, I think he would have a better idea as to what's actually going on in there than you.
you've got your panties all in a bunch but that's ok, I'll give you a minute to get your undergarments sorted out. :love:made it bigger so it's easier for you to read :love:

 

[Changleen]

Do you have ADD?

You came into this thread claiming that everyone held by the US is a terrorist and wants to kill us all. You were wrong.

You then said that all the problems today are caused by Muslim fundamentalists. Again, you were wrong.

Since then you've said nothing of any value, or made retarded statements and tried to slide the argument towards something else you have no idea of. Face it, you made two retarded points which are both obviously and demonstrably wrong, and now you are drivelling about nothing.

 

[Changleen]

So, as you say below again, the west has ****ed with these people and their lands and resources time and time again, and yet you refuse to accept any responsibility for the state of things as they stand?

So now I'm peronally responsible for all this? Grow up man.

Are you really that thick? Do you or do you not accept the west (you) shares a considerable share of the responsibility for what has occured recently?

 

[noname]

Do you have ADD?

You came into this thread claiming that everyone held by the US is a terrorist and wants to kill us all. You were wrong.I make allowances for the sake of argument only, no longer enemy combatant, the phrase you stand on to mean not dangerous, doesn't implie that they weren't upon apprehesion dangerous, and won't be again

You then said that all the problems today are caused by Muslim fundamentalists. Again, you were wrong.Did I say that? No I said Muslim fudimentalists have been fighting us far longer than we've bee n fighting back. Pay attention you get an E for effort though.

Since then you've said nothing of any value,not of value to you simpl y because you disagree or made retarded statements and tried to slide the argument towards something else you have no idea of. Obviously I know what I'm talking about if I'm the only one actually posting anything of substance Face it, you made two retarded points which are both obviously and demonstrably wrong, and now you are drivelling about nothing.You've still not said anything, just made comments. I'm sorry that I don't fit in your little preconceived box of what my opinion should be and you have to project a certain hidden belief structure to my comments befor e you can attempt to refute them. I'll tryy to make it easier next time

 

[noname]

Are you really that thick? Do you or do you not accept the west (you) shares a considerable share of the responsibility for what has occured recently?

you seem convinced that the west is almost entirely responsible for the codition of the middle east. Despite the fact that I have already laid out for you the primary causality thread of events resposible for the allowance of circumstance that has brought us to where we are, you still keep beating this horse. keep flogging Tolstoy.

 

[Changleen]

I make allowances for the sake of argument only, no longer enemy combatant, the phrase you stand on to mean not dangerous, doesn't implie that they weren't upon apprehesion dangerous, and won't be again

WTF? Can't you even speak English? What are you blathering about? Are you trying to say they might be dangerous so we'd better not let them go? How are you defending your assertion that they are all dangerous terrorists when they are demonstrably not? You can't. You're wrong. You lose. Understand? Probably not.

No I said Muslim fudimentalists have been fighting us far longer than we've bee n fighting back.

OK, if you want to spin your own words, fair enough. But still, you're wrong. Muslims didn't care two hoots about America until it started messing with them and their land to get what it wanted. Until that point they were mainly concerned with interfaith and intersect rivalries. Even if 'they started it' as you'd seem to like to think, how the hell does that justify America's actions?

As for your repeated assertion that we are 'dealing with the hand we've been dealt', - No we're not. We're returning the cards to the dealer and asking for worse ones. Everything we've done so far has been stupid, and largely immoral.

 

[Changleen]

you seem convinced that the west is almost entirely responsible for the codition of the middle east. Despite the fact that I have already laid out for you the primary causality thread of events resposible for the allowance of circumstance that has brought us to where we are, you still keep beating this horse. keep flogging Tolstoy.

"Considerable share" does not equal "Almost entirely reponsible" you fvckwit.

 

[noname]

"Considerable share" does not equal "Almost entirely reponsible" you fvckwit.

ahhhh the response of the angry and ignorant. You're the one trying to spin my remarks to position them in a way you feel confidant that you can rebut. If you don't understand what I'm saying I could try to dumn it down for you.:love: Meanwhile i'm having a good time
do you need ?

 

[Changleen]

Actually it's great fun arguing with a complete idiot. Dude, you can't even spell 'dumb', and you still think you've made some sort of point.

Please, be my guest and explain in your own words what part of the argument you won.

By failing to even address my points you're making yourself look really stupid.

 

[noname]

viscious. sounds like someone needs a nappy. Is it past your bedtime?

 

[Changleen]

Bwahhahahaa. pwn3d. Run away little squirrel.

 

[noname]

owned? you'rer the one throwing a hissy fit, just thought you needed a nap is all, like any other little kiddie would. I could change your diaper too if you need it......, diaper rash maybe? :love:

 

[valve bouncer]

So to summarize noname's arguement;
1) there are two kinds of muslims, terrorists and those who will become terrorists. Locking them all up is the only solution. He knows this because..
2) He has secret friends in secret places who know secret things.
Did I miss anything?