[MtnBikerChk]

1. What geometric attribute makes a bike a good climber or a not so good one?

2. Why was I pulling the front end of the bike off the ground on steep ups (when I don't do that on the blur)?


My overall review (in case you are interested):

It was hard to judge how it would handle the type of terrain we typically ride. Today's trails were wet and rocks were moss covered and VERY slick. My wheels kept sliding out from under me. We found very few technical rocky rooty sections but on the ones we did find, this bike excelled!! We also found a few fast downhills - and the rear end felt much more stable than the blur.

As you can tell from questions though - it did not seem to climb very well. I felt like I was back on my Rocky Mountain Element where I have to lean in real close to the handlebars and pull down/back. I'm not a good climber as it is so I felt at more of a disadvantage.

but oh yeah, it fit me LIKE A GLOVE.

Right at the end of the ride we came upon a little rocky UP section. I NEVER would have made it up it on the BLUR but UP and OVER I went on the ML. So I left the day with that awesome YEE HAA feeling :love:

 

[MikeD]

Steeper head angles give better steering on climbs...the front end stays more planted and wanders less. Your weight distribution on the bike (a combo of tt and chainstay length) affects the way the front end will act, too. Short chainstays really tend to exaggerate the lofting of the front end. I actually find this can be useful in techy climbing...

I wouldn't expect a moto-lite has particularly short chainstays, though.

 

[narlus]

the top tube/stem length also has a big part to play in keeping the front end planted while climbing steeps, as does relative bar height (stem rise, crown to axle distance on the fork).

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Steeper head angles give better steering on climbs...the front end stays more planted and wanders less. Your weight distribution on the bike (a combo of tt and chainstay length) affects the way the front end will act, too. Short chainstays really tend to exaggerate the lofting of the front end. I actually find this can be useful in techy climbing...

I wouldn't expect a moto-lite has particularly short chainstays, though.

head angle
blur: 70.5
ml: 70.0

TT length:
blur 21.6
ml 21.3

stem length:
blur 70mm
ml - est 90mm

chainstay:
blur: 17.1
ml: 16.85

it just all seems so damn close!

 

[allsk8sno]

lighter fork could do it too, i noticed that alot when i switched forks on the same bike

 

[SkaredShtles]

You should try some bar ends on the ML.

 

[MMcG]

The fork may have had a taller axle to crown height thus making the front end want to lift up on the climbs. The fox fork on your Blur is relatively short compared to Rockshox and Manitou and Marzocchi forks.

 

[jdcamb]

stem length:
blur 70mm
ml - est 90mm

it just all seems so damn close!

70mm with a 15deg rise and a 90mm with a 5 deg rise = a big difference. Not to say that is the case but you get what I am saying...

 

[Jozz]

The Motolite tend to squat a bit more when climbing as the Blur tends get stiffer. It was wierd climbing the Motolite at first but after a few rides it feels ok now. But as I mentioned to you, it is not as efficient as the blur for climbing... but kick the sh!t out of the Blur in every other domain.

Btw, you ran it a 4-4 (inch) I gather?

 

[jdcamb]

The Motolite tend to squat a bit more when climbing as the Blur tends get stiffer. It was wierd climbing the Motolite at first but after a few rides it feels ok now. But as I mentioned to you, it is not as efficient as the blur for climbing... but kick the sh!t out of the Blur in every other domain.

Btw, you ran it a 4-4 (inch) I gather?

Keep us posted on how you like yours. Maybe I will ride with you this fall?

 

[MikeD]

head angle
blur: 70.5
ml: 70.0

TT length:
blur 21.6
ml 21.3

stem length:
blur 70mm
ml - est 90mm

chainstay:
blur: 17.1
ml: 16.85

it just all seems so damn close!

Yeah, with those numbers, I'm inclined to go with Narlus and the gang on it being your stem length.

You could have the exact same hand and arm position relative to your body with a short tt/long stem or a long tt/short stem, and it'll feel totally different b/c of the positioning of the weight relative to the axle of your wheel. You might try a 90 or 100mm stem on the motolite to make it more to your liking if it doesn't stretch you out too much.

 

[jdcamb]

the top tube/stem length also has a big part to play in keeping the front end planted while climbing steeps, as does relative bar height (stem rise, crown to axle distance on the fork).

Yeah what he said..

 

[TreeSaw]

I had a tough time getting used to climbing on my jekyll as the front end was SO much lighter than my K2. I was constantly wheelie-ing and even tipped over backwards a couple of times on really steep stuff. Fortunately, I am more used to it now and don't crash as often.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Btw, you ran it a 4-4 (inch) I gather?

5-5 baby!


so Jozz, it's worth it?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

70mm with a 15deg rise and a 90mm with a 5 deg rise = a big difference. Not to say that is the case but you get what I am saying...

yeah, ok I'm a numbnut - I gave you the MC geo for a 100mm fork.

the head angle was actually 68.75! So it must be the whole stem thing.

THANKS.

 

[Jozz]

yeah, ok I'm a numbnut - I gave you the MC geo for a 100mm fork.

the head angle was actually 68.75! So it must be the whole stem thing.

THANKS.

That's why I asked if you ran it at 4-4.

At 5-5 its is slaquer thus needing a bit more body english to climb steep section. I see a big difference when I drop the talas travel to 4.5 inch.

But also like others said, stem lenght makes a difference also.

New bikes always feel a little off for the first few rides, then you discover the bike's sweet spot and after that everything falls into place!

 

[MMcG]

Jozz has a good point. You could go with a fork like a Talas or a Pike, or something and drop the travel down on steep climbs if you run the Titus in 5x5 mode.

Dropping the fork down would steepen the head tube angle and make the bike a little more efficient on the climbs around here.

 

[MMcG]

By the way - this thread is worthless without pics! You guys didn't take pics of the bike(s)??

 

[Jozz]

By the way - this thread is worthless without pics! You guys didn't take pics of the bike(s)??

Ok if you insist... ink:

I guess you were refering to MBC's demo bike.... but then why pass the occasion to show off!!

 

[MMcG]

Black Ano = your favorite huh Jozz??

It would be good to have more info on the fork that was on MBC's bike and also what shock was spec'd on the XS as well.

 

[narlus]

hey MMcG, dryden? pretty easy one today, if that was the selection.

 

[Reactor]

I use a TalasXTT on my switchblade and a Talas36 enduro and it makes a huge difference climbing.

 

[Jozz]

Black Ano = your favorite huh Jozz??

It would be good to have more info on the fork that was on MBC's bike and also what shock was spec'd on the XS as well.

Its actually Mate Fox Grey.

 

[narlus]

Jozz has a good point. You could go with a fork like a Talas or a Pike, or something and drop the travel down on steep climbs if you run the Titus in 5x5 mode.

Dropping the fork down would steepen the head tube angle and make the bike a little more efficient on the climbs around here.

that works great for riding where it is up up UP UP and then DOWN DOWN down down...not the sort of the stuff i typically ride around new england. it worked great @ pisgah for the ~6 miles climbs, but for rolling terrain, it would involve too much twiddling to make it worthwhile, unless you were on a decent-length climb.

 

[Jozz]

that works great for riding where it is up up UP UP and then DOWN DOWN down down...not the sort of the stuff i typically ride around new england. it worked great @ pisgah for the ~6 miles climbs, but for rolling terrain, it would involve too much twiddling to make it worthwhile, unless you were on a decent-length climb.

Exactly!

Travel adjust according to terrain before the ride. Not the kind of thing you want to play with 20 times during a ride. That's the beauty of the ML. You can set it up a 4 inch and get a more efficient climber and nervous steering, put it at 5 and you got and inspiring machine for going through the nasty stuff at high speed!

Going right now for an Epic ride, 5-6 hours ride with lots of climbing. I'll let you know how it went.

 

[MMcG]

that works great for riding where it is up up UP UP and then DOWN DOWN down down...not the sort of the stuff i typically ride around new england. it worked great @ pisgah for the ~6 miles climbs, but for rolling terrain, it would involve too much twiddling to make it worthwhile, unless you were on a decent-length climb.

Perhaps with a Talas - yes - well an old Talas. I think the new ones drop travel down by 30mm increments or something like that. Much better than the old wind down ones.

I used to have a Z1 with ETA and it was relatively easy to flick that ETA Lever to lower the Zoke down for the short steep stuff around here. Get up top, flick it back off and bomb down! :dancing:

 

[Leethal]

How high are the handlebars in relation to the seat on both bikes?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Perhaps with a Talas - yes - well an old Talas. I think the new ones drop travel down by 30mm increments or something like that. Much better than the old wind down ones.

The new Talas was SO easy to adjust - you're right - 1 click = 30mm of travel.


and Leethal - another good question - I don't know exactly but I can tell you the handlebars on the ML were higher than the seat. ON the blur they are much closer to being level.

 

[MMcG]

The new Talas was SO easy to adjust - you're right - 1 click = 30mm of travel.


and Leethal - another good question - I don't know exactly but I can tell you the handlebars on the ML were higher than the seat. ON the blur they are much closer to being level.

Higher than the saddle - that would have a big impact on your ability to keep the front end down MBC.

 

[I Are Baboon]

MBC on a Moto Lite.

 

[MMcG]

Nice pic.....the fit was spot on MBC??

Did they have any smalls?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Nice pic.....the fit was spot on MBC??

Did they have any smalls?

looks like I'm riding a toy, doesn't it? It felt great. But my back was aching by the end of the day - not sure what that was from. Also be sure to notice my piss poor pedaling technique - toe down

They did have smalls. One of Splat's friends rode with us and she's 5'6" She rode the small and it fit her - so too big for me for sure.

 

[jdcamb]

looks like I'm riding a toy, doesn't it? It felt great. But my back was aching by the end of the day - not sure what that was from. Also be sure to notice my piss poor pedaling technique - toe down

They did have smalls. One of Splat's friends rode with us and she's 5'6" She rode the small and it fit her - so too big for me for sure.

I sell Titus bikes. 5'6" is firmly in medium territory. Unless she has a really short torso.... I would fit you on a small. You're fairly proportional. Just my take....

 

[MMcG]

The bike does look super tiny. Hmmm.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I sell Titus bikes. 5'6" is firmly in medium territory. Unless she has a really short torso.... I would fit you on a small. You're fairly proportional. Just my take....

The TT on the xs is 21.3 but the small is 22.6 - that's way too long. I'd need a 30mm stem.

 

[MMcG]

I wonder why your back hurt?

Was the ML pretty light? Lighter than your Blur?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Was the ML pretty light? Lighter than your Blur?

yep.

 

[jdcamb]

The TT on the xs is 21.3 but the small is 22.6 - that's way too long. I'd need a 30mm stem.

Or something else custom. And your dealer should be able to do that for you. Don't you have a ballpark of what you want? Don't settle for a demo bike when you can get the same bike custon suited to your needs. You have more options then you have been led to believe....

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Or something else custom. And your dealer should be able to do that for you. Don't you have a ballpark of what you want? Don't settle for a demo bike when you can get the same bike custon suited to your needs. You have more options then you have been led to believe....

but I wasn't complaining - just asking what some of the measurements mean.

 

[MMcG]

You know how your Blur fits, so if the XS felt better, then that's probably where you should be.......perhaps it is just the photo that makes it look so tiny.

Did you have to run a lot of seatpost to get the proper leg extension?

Not sure of the ST angle but would more seatpost expose actually shorten the ETT on the frame? Or do I have that backwards again??