[Verskis]

By the way Kidwoo, I appreciate your tire reviews and general tire geekery, you just seem like a guy who may judge a product because it conflicts with your theory, even if the product works just fine in real world. I am guilty of the same prejudice, too.


I'd really like you to do a comparison of all these Minions and Minion clones:
-Minion DHF
-Minion DHR2
-Butcher
-G5

 

[kidwoo]

you just seem like a guy who may judge a product because it conflicts with your theory,

Of course I do that.......Like with every other single schwalbe tire that's even worse. But I'll tell you when I haven't ridden something. And you have to understand, these aren't exactly "my theories". They're neither particular to me and me alone OR theories. I'm by far the biggest mouth on this site when it comes to tires but trust me.....there are a LOT of people who have been riding a bikes a long time that point and giggle every time schwalbe comes out with another tire. They do some really stupid things. It's not 'my theories' that happen to explain why a new bontrager tire looks exactly like one from Maxxis. There are solid functional concepts when it comes to tire design. That's just the way it is......and then there's schwalbe who decidedly go and do the opposite.

But check out some of the older threads where I've babbled about tires (I think it may even be quoted in that dh rubber one). I said quite a few times that I didn't think the subtle angle on the MMs would matter that much. Then everyone and their grandmothers started buying these things and they're not exactly hard to come across. And yes, even without my prompting, a buddy put his on the way that makes sense. My buddies and I are pretty regularly riding each other's bikes. Hell that mammoth video I just did has a friend riding one of my bikes the whole time. They do work a little better cornering.....at least in the super dusty stuff. If not you're riding in 'dirt' like that, sliding around, it probably doesn't matter. They're still not great though because the channel isn't big enough and the sideknobs are too thin. So yeah I'll readily admit to previous predjudice and maybe 'looking for it' but I have ridden that tire both ways. It slides better run 'backwards'. And by better, I mean more controlled without crazy oversteering.

People buy schwalbe tires now because they started sponsoring fast people......that's it. And the MM just happens to be one that kinda works because like I keep saying, it's the least "schwalbed out". I'll shut up when pro teams start using sharpies to run their tires in secret because they're just so good, people gotta have'em......despite their other tire sponsor. They're going to have to come out with some better tires first though

I'd really like you to do a comparison of all these Minions and Minion clones:
-Minion DHF
-Minion DHR2
-Butcher
-G5

I've ridden a pair of butchers for a full day of lift riding before. I couldn't tell a lick of difference between those and some supertacky minion DHFs I had on my bike. If anything, they seemed to grab a little better braking. And those cut DHR2s are still the best all around tire I've had.

I'll be trying to get some of those G5s for sure. I may add some boobies with my tire knife if I get a chance.

 

[rockofullr]

I may add some boobies with my tire knife if I get a chance.

I can haz tutorial?

 

[bdamschen]

Of course I do that.......Like with every other single schwalbe tire that's even worse.

Seems like the only way to get rid of your prejudice is a blind test. Time to start riding with a blindfold. Be sure to film it and post up... you know, for science.

 

[kidwoo]

Seems like the only way to get rid of your prejudice is a blind test. Time to start riding with a blindfold. Be sure to film it and post up... you know, for science.

You bring the beer, I'll bring the hockey helmet.

 

[S.K.C.]

THIS is pretty interesting from 2012 Interbike via NSMB:

While the Minion DHR II is not exactly news, I was interested in finding out about tread compounds on the new series of Maxxis tires. The reps at the booth at first dodged my questions about durometers, and then let on that the company is no longer advertising these numbers to preserve their intellectual property. Basically the 2013 line will be marketed with three compound options generally corresponding with their current offerings of "race hard", "trail medium", and "DH sticky".

http://nsmb.com/5547-dirt-demo-gear-gear-gear-pt-1/

I noticed this as far back as the 2010 release of 2011 Maxxis catalogue.

Why they would do this is a bit of a mystery to me. Maxxis has published detailed info of not only their tire compounds for DH offerings, but also cross-sectional diagrams of tire carcass and construction for as long as I can remember. If they are choosing to suddenly keep all of this info secret because there are changes on the horizon, I don't see that happening any time soon since it takes a lot of capital to change the key elements of a product line such as this (compounds and construction). So that's a theory that doesn't seem very plausible.

Maybe Maxxis is hoping that by performing a self-imposed cease & desist on their own press, everyone else will forget their manufacturing techniques?! ...or perhaps they've noticed that DH tire manufacture has become highly competitive at the margin and that they need to do something to protect/retain an edge? I dunno.

...kind of a head-scratcher.

 

[slyfink]

It just dawned on me that the DHRII seems fairly close in design to the Specialized Clutch... Woo, you ever ride those?

 

[kidwoo]

THIS is pretty interesting from 2012 Interbike via NSMB:



http://nsmb.com/5547-dirt-demo-gear-gear-gear-pt-1/

I told you the compounds were different these days.
That's not inside info, that's just from riding the things.

It just dawned on me that the DHRII seems fairly close in design to the Specialized Clutch... Woo, you ever ride those?

Kinda......the DHR2 is a little more open.

But yeah, I've ridden them. They're good tires for sure. That backwards sipe on the middle knobs annoy me because it doesn't angle the right way to do anything useful but then again, I'm of the opinion that even the 'right' angled sipe on a minion DHF doesn't do a whole lot in the real world on anything but a 60a compound.

 

[General Lee]

Really, it's just all about the duct tape.

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/8620986/?s6

 

[Verskis]

Ooh, they are making the tread extra sticky with the duct tape glue residue

 

[Udi]

People buy schwalbe tires now because they started sponsoring fast people......that's it. And the MM just happens to be one that kinda works because like I keep saying, it's the least "schwalbed out".

I've seen you slam the Schwalbe's a few times, not sure I really agree.

I spent a year on them last year after a lifetime on Maxxis, and found them to be excellent performers - especially in wet / muddy conditions where they edge out anything else I've tried.

The Muddy Mary in my experience lost out to the DHF slightly in very dry conditions (especially gravelly loose ground), and in this environment I'd always pick the DHF given a choice - the DHF also lasts longer due to longer and better supported braking knobs which is handy for bikeparks. However in areas where you have muddy forest sections on an otherwise dry track I'd lean towards the MM or other.

When it comes to a pure spike though, the DD is amazing and a much better designed item than anything Maxxis current offer. My thoughts are in post 10 here, and a plenty of others seem to share the opinion.

I'm currently on Maxxis and don't have any great allegiance to either side, but I think the Schwalbes definitely have their place after my experience riding them.

 

[bholwell]

THIS is pretty interesting from 2012 Interbike via NSMB:



http://nsmb.com/5547-dirt-demo-gear-gear-gear-pt-1/

I noticed this as far back as the 2010 release of 2011 Maxxis catalogue.

Why they would do this is a bit of a mystery to me. Maxxis has published detailed info of not only their tire compounds for DH offerings, but also cross-sectional diagrams of tire carcass and construction for as long as I can remember. If they are choosing to suddenly keep all of this info secret because there are changes on the horizon, I don't see that happening any time soon since it takes a lot of capital to change the key elements of a product line such as this (compounds and construction). So that's a theory that doesn't seem very plausible.

Maybe Maxxis is hoping that by performing a self-imposed cease & desist on their own press, everyone else will forget their manufacturing techniques?! ...or perhaps they've noticed that DH tire manufacture has become highly competitive at the margin and that they need to do something to protect/retain an edge? I dunno.

...kind of a head-scratcher.

I'm not sure why the Sales Dept. decided to stop publishing the durometer of the compounds used. It isn't a secret, and it tells very little about the properties of the compound other than its hardness. But it is useful in a way. So for those interested:

3C MaxxSpeed = 70a base layer, 62a outer center layer, 60a outer shoulder layer

3C MaxxTerra = 70a base layer, 50a outer center layer, 42a outer shoulder layer

3C MaxxGrip = 70a base layer, 42a outer center layer, 40a outer shoulder layer (the same configuration it's always been)

From the website: (http://www.maxxis.com/Bicycle/Technology.aspx)

3C Maxx Speed
Used primarily in cross country and enduro tires, the two compounds in the outer layer are secially formulated to lower rolling resistance and optimize treadwear and traction.
3C Maxx Terra
An intermediate compound configuration used in select mountain tires. 3C Maxx Terra is softer and offers more traction than 3C Maxx Speed, yet provides better treadwear and less rolling resistance than Maxx Grip.
3C Maxx Grip
A new name for the downhill 3C compound configuration that you have come to know and trust. 3C Maxx Grip offers the ultimate in grip and slow rebound properties for unparalleled traction in downhill applications.

 

[kidwoo]

I've seen you slam the Schwalbe's a few times, not sure I really agree.

Well you've read my rants so you hopefully know why I do that. I mean you take something like http://www.downhilltires.com/index.php?id=11, and without running it backwards it's like taking about 15 years of proven concepts and doing the opposite. And I'm not even just talking about 'race proven technology', most of it is just common sense if you look at how the thing sits on it's contact patch.

You remember when xc tires used to regularly tell you run their treads in one direction for a front, and to switch it for the rear? This had mostly to do with the fact that a braking edge on the front direction would be a good climbing edge for the rear. The only problem is that then a tire that has some angled sideknobs will be mismatched between front and rear. In the dry environs I live in, I don't need any help getting one tire to go one one and the other tire the opposite. But that's exactly what would end up happening on long sweeping flat tracker turns or just extended, even slightly off camber sections of trail. This single little phenomenon is what got me really really paying attention to tires about 12 years ago......before I even got my first dh bike.

90% of schwalbe's tires are designed to be like that switched rear tire. The 10% that aren't? That's the dirty dan There's very little directional bias (like none) on that tread so yeah........I got nothin on that one. Looks like a good wet tire for sure. There's some angle on the sides but at least they're in pairs.

I fully believe the MMs work better than a DHF in mud/wet dirt where there's some penetration because the center is a scaled down mud spike and the sideknobs are a lot thinner to bite in. But then again, that's a lot of the same theory as a High Roller 2. And DHFs gum up in a lot of wet soils...everyone knows that.

But none of that addresses why I rail on schwalbe so hard. They make tires (not the MM or the DD) that have open cups on a leading edge instead of in on the trailing edge where it would do some good for braking. They turn their sideknobs around so that any sort of braking while leaned (or just hitting a bump and increasing pressure on the wheel) will push the tire outside of a turn, not into it. They cup dirt, only in the wrong direction. All these things are way more noticeable when it's dry, you're off the brakes and sliding all over the place is part of every run. So yeah.....that's my geographical bias for sure. But you can learn a lot about tires in that stuff. And hero dirt is well......called that for a reason. Pretty much any tire that has any knobs works. And if you're not used to sliding your bike around, or freeze up when it happens, a lot of this stuff you're not likely to notice. If you really want I can elaborate on what I mean by cupping in the wrong direction. With as much as I babble about this stuff and people riding MMs and not relating whatsoever to what I'm saying I might as well. It's just that when you're really on your game, taking chances, and riding on the edge of your comfort/ability level, it's nice to know that if a certain characteristic of a tire is going to do anything at all, it's going to err on the side of doing something useful, not leaning towards doing the opposite of what you want it to do.

Try one of those DHR2s when you get a chance. It does everything good the DHFs do and improves on what they do poorly......which means in the wet.

 

[Pegboy]

Woo, what compound did you test the DHR 2 in? I'm looking to pick up some new tires and the Butchers that I normally run are out of stock so I figure I might throw a DHR 2 on the back as the Butcher on the front is still descent. I've run the DHF 3cs front and rear with no complaints other than they are heavy and expensive.

 

[Pslide]

Really, it's just all about the duct tape.

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/8620986/?s6

So what are the theories on this? Pretty sure that's not a tire warmer.

The waxes and oils used in rubber compounds do have a tendency to "bloom" to the surface over time, and that tape would pull them off, but I don't think it would really have any noticeable difference on grip.

Maybe it's mind games...


RE: Maxxis naming strategy...they better not start mixing and matching rubber compounds under the same name. I want to know exactly what I'm buying.

 

[General Lee]

So what are the theories on this? Pretty sure that's not a tire warmer.

The waxes and oils used in rubber compounds do have a tendency to "bloom" to the surface over time, and that tape would pull them off, but I don't think it would really have any noticeable difference on grip.

A) His mechanics were having some fun and pretending to be secretive
B) It was to keep the cow sh*t off the tires on the way to the start
C) The knobs had seen a special little nip & tuck (see A)

 

[FarkinRyan]

Kidwoo - so Schwalbe have 2 competent DH tyres in the lineup. For years Maxxis only had the DHF, which was and is excellent and the HR, which is dead average. Now's the part where I post a picture of the Ardent and rail on about what a bucket of sh1t it is and how this proves that Maxxis don't actually know what they're doing

 

[Pslide]

A) His mechanics were having some fun and pretending to be secretive
B) It was to keep the cow sh*t off the tires on the way to the start
C) The knobs had seen a special little nip & tuck (see A)

Ahhhhh ha, makes sense. Thanks.

Regarding Maxxis, they've had a lot of tread patterns over the years (XC+DH), mix in some luck and you're bound to end up with one or two that work. At least the HR2 and DHR2 do seem to have some intelligent thought behind them...

 

[bholwell]

Regarding Maxxis, they've had a lot of tread patterns over the years (XC+DH), mix in some luck and you're bound to end up with one or two that work. At least the HR2 and DHR2 do seem to have some intelligent thought behind them...

Thanks for that! I can happily report that I did not design the Ardent, but the HR2 and DHR2 are mine (as well as a yet-to-be-tested DH tire and many XC tires including the Ikon and Beaver). The Ardent was designed in the time period after Chris Wyatt left and before I came on board. I actually like it as a XC tire for hard to loose-over.

 

[bholwell]

A) His mechanics were having some fun and pretending to be secretive
B) It was to keep the cow sh*t off the tires on the way to the start
C) The knobs had seen a special little nip & tuck (see A)

The tires on Greg's bike were uncut / not modified. He was running one-off 3C MaxxTerra versions, though. So perhaps it was to keep people from constantly feeling the tire? Otherwise, I like your theory "B"

 

[Udi]

Well you've read my rants so you hopefully know why I do that.

Kidwoo - so Schwalbe have 2 competent DH tyres in the lineup. For years Maxxis only had the DHF, which was and is excellent and the HR, which is dead average. Now's the part where I post a picture of the Ardent and rail on about what a bucket of sh1t it is and how this proves that Maxxis don't actually know what they're doing

I think FarkinRyan sums it up perfectly in his post. I don't really understand the hate, honestly I haven't tried those models you mention - in the same way that I haven't tried a whole bunch of rubbish models that Maxxis make. I do know the two models that most people do use (and seem to be commonly used on the WC circuit) are very good ones, and I'd quite happily try the new crossbreed of the DD / MM as well.

I'm sure I'll try the DHR2 at some stage also (and am interested to see how it performs in the wet), but I've never been a fan of the short and wide braking knobs in terms of lifespan (and generally get enough dry braking traction without them anyway), that's why I like the DHF over HR/MM designs for dry conditions.

 

[kidwoo]

Kidwoo - so Schwalbe have 2 competent DH tyres in the lineup. For years Maxxis only had the DHF, which was and is excellent and the HR, which is dead average. Now's the part where I post a picture of the Ardent and rail on about what a bucket of sh1t it is and how this proves that Maxxis don't actually know what they're doing

But......but......but......I've spent so much time adamantly praising the unquestionable superiority of Ardents......how could you do this to me!!!??


COME ON!! We're talking about a company that makes this:

And calls it a mountain bike tire.

And they make this thing:

http://www.maxxis.com/Repository/Images/holy_roller.jpg

Which is knurled on the RECESSES where dirt never even touches.

I'm so disappointed in you.

The ardent is a pumptrack tire. I've actually got a bike at my house right now I'm supposed to be reviewing that I refuse to ride any more until I get something else because it has ardents on it. I figure a fair review of a bike should involve me actually staying ON singletrack

And did you miss the part in that DHR2 review where I say the DHR is one of the worst tires I've ever ridden?


The schwalbe thing with me is that there's a unified approach to how they do almost ALL of their tires.....including the muddy mary. Maxxis makes some crap but they make some really really good tires too. The MMs aren't that great. They have texture and roll and stuff but they just don't stand out......depends on what else you've ridden though.

don't understand the hate

It's not hate it's just a very clear series of reasons why I'll never spend money on the things. Plus the fact that a schwalbe kevlar bead tire is the only tire I've ever ridden that blew off the rim of my dirtjumper while going up the face of a jump.
Pick a schwalbe tire and tell me why someone made the decisions they did in a particular design. Seriously. Tell me what the goal is with certain shapes and angles. You're a pretty meticulous guy who likes to understand things......help ME understand why. It's something I try to do in the reviews of the two maxxis tires I've done......someone explain the reasoning to me that went into the sideknobs of the muddy mary (since that's the one you've ridden).

 

[S.K.C.]

I'm not sure why the Sales Dept. decided to stop publishing the durometer of the compounds used. It isn't a secret, and it tells very little about the properties of the compound other than its hardness. But it is useful in a way. So for those interested:

3C MaxxSpeed = 70a base layer, 62a outer center layer, 60a outer shoulder layer

3C MaxxTerra = 70a base layer, 50a outer center layer, 42a outer shoulder layer

3C MaxxGrip = 70a base layer, 42a outer center layer, 40a outer shoulder layer (the same configuration it's always been)

From the website: (http://www.maxxis.com/Bicycle/Technology.aspx)

YES! Exactly! I have no idea either, but thank you for this info.

By providing durometer data, the consumer can at least make SOME kind of informed decision with their purchase. For example, Michi doesn't publish it, but their DH rubber is 55a (unless they've changed it). Now for the serious recreational gravity rider or racer who wants more grip from their tires, knowing that a company makes their gravity offerings in 40a, 42a, or some combo of the two can be very helpful! Also, it allows the consumer to make a value judgement such as "OK, I've owned 42a tires before, but they don't suit my style of riding and wear out quickly - I need something a bit harder... Oh - look at this, here is a tire that is 50a... maybe this is what I need."

Additionally - you know what you're getting. Maxgrip, TrailStar, GorillaSnot, or BlackGumbo is kinda vague.

Most of what I've said is an oversimplification, but if you should happen to speak to any of the guys at Maxxis, by all means pass this along.

 

[Udi]

Pick a schwalbe tire and tell me why someone made the decisions they did in a particular design. Seriously. Tell me what the goal is with certain shapes and angles. You're a pretty meticulous guy who likes to understand things......help ME understand why.

I tried to do that with what I said about the DD there. I found that tire to be very well thought out for its purpose, from tread pattern to profile down to the compound. I didn't find the MM to break new ground but at the time (last year) I found it more useful than a DHF for courses with a mix of dry and slop (sounds like the DHR2 might fit the bill now according to you).

I definitely haven't put much thought into why certain tires work like you have and can't speak for a manufacturer's decisions - just know that I tried some of their products and they worked very well, and to me personally they cover part of the spectrum that Maxxis don't, so I'm happy to see them coexist on the market.

 

[kidwoo]

I definitely haven't put much thought into why certain tires work like you have and can't speak for a manufacturer's decisions - just know that I tried some of their products and they worked very well, and to me personally they cover part of the spectrum that Maxxis don't, so I'm happy to see them coexist on the market.

I need to put the disclaimer whenever I go off about tires that reminds people that not even I believe that all the things I praise or whine about is going to make a huge drastic difference within the first 5 feet of rolling your bike down the hill. It's all minutia. I've just ridden a lot of ho hum and outright shlt for tires and it's something I started really paying attention to. If a company comes out with a design, I want to know that if I'm riding on the edge of crashing, I've at least got a tire that's going to help keep me on one side of that line. I know for a fact that the approaches schwalbe employs don't do that. That doesn't mean you're going to constantly be on your face (obviously not, MMs are everywhere and some people like them), it just means that they could be better. And in the meantime there are other choices that are better thought out and executed.

And hell yeah, if I were stuck somewhere in pouring rain, I'd reach for a DD before anything from maxxis. Like I said......I got nothin on that one. Looks like a good mud tire. Maxxis doesn't have one of those.....at least not that we can get here.

 

[S.K.C.]

I need to put the disclaimer whenever I go off about tires that reminds people that not even I believe that all the things I praise or whine about is going to make a huge drastic difference within the first 5 feet of rolling your bike down the hill. It's all minutia. I've just ridden a lot of ho hum and outright shlt for tires and it's something I started really paying attention to. If a company comes out with a design, I want to know that if I'm riding on the edge of crashing, I've at least got a tire that's going to help keep me on one side of that line. I know for a fact that the approaches schwalbe employs don't do that. That doesn't mean you're going to constantly be on your face (obviously not, MMs are everywhere and some people like them), it just means that they could be better. And in the meantime there are other choices that are better thought out and executed...

Exactly. I understand what Woo is getting at here and his assessment of certain tires is down to a certain level of performance at the margin - that little extra bit that would make a difference. Also - Woo this is the second time I've seen your Tire Disclaimer - it's helpful and should be made sticky somewhere.

Woo - it's more of a frustration, correct? For example, the MM's provide traction that is confidence inspiring, BUT as with any tire, riding at the limit is where you find the minutiae that make the difference between a good tire and a great tire. So with the Schwalbe MM's this begs the question: HOW amazing would these tires be if they JUST reversed the direction of the %#@&ing SIDE knobs?! Would it be a huge difference, or a small, marginal one? No one knows... shame.

I propose an online petition for pursuing this as a Schwalbe prototype project. (say THAT three times as fast)

...either that or a High Roller II with High Roller I side knobs... High Roller THREE's bitches!

 

[FarkinRyan]

They have texture and roll and stuff

This line definitely needs to be used in your next tyre review.

I was more trying to point out that picking a tyre from Schwalbe that I've very rarely seen used by anyone on a DH bike as proof they don't know what they're doing is a bit of a cop out. I'd much rather hear your opinion on why the MM, a tyre people actually do use, is badly designed.

As you quite rightly pointed out, you can scroll through the Maxxis catalogue and find plenty of tyres without much effort, doesn't change the fact that they now have 4 solid DH tyres in the lineup. Same goes for Schwalbe, plenty of crap but still a couple of really good tyres.

 

[Bikael Molton]

GorillaSnot, or BlackGumbo is kinda vague.

God, I hope you are making those up. I don't even want to Google to find out.

 

[kidwoo]

This line definitely needs to be used in your next tyre review.

It's a deal.

I was more trying to point out that picking a tyre from Schwalbe that I've very rarely seen used by anyone on a DH bike as proof they don't know what they're doing is a bit of a cop out. I'd much rather hear your opinion on why the MM, a tyre people actually do use, is badly designed.

As you quite rightly pointed out, you can scroll through the Maxxis catalogue and find plenty of tyres without much effort, doesn't change the fact that they now have 4 solid DH tyres in the lineup. Same goes for Schwalbe, plenty of crap but still a couple of really good tyres.

Here's my second disclaimer since I've never once brought it up on my own accord:
Stop fvcking asking me the muddy mary

You know who makes some really good tires that no one talks about because they're not paying fast guys on the WC to ride them? Kenda. That's right. I said it.

 

[HAB]

You know who makes some really good tires that no one talks about because they're not paying fast guys on the WC to ride them? Kenda. That's right. I said it.

I've had really ****ty luck with their casings but maybe that's just me. I do agree that they have a few tread patterns that make sense.

 

[Jeremy R]

You know who makes some really good tires that no one talks about because they're not paying fast guys on the WC to ride them? Kenda. That's right. I said it.

Uh oh, rapid evaporation!

 

[boylagz]

Kenda Telonix?!

 

[kidwoo]

Kenda Telonix?!

Have your ridden those at northstar once the place gets completely blown to shlt?

They ain't bad.

Uh oh, rapid evaporation!

If anyone says nevegal in my presence I usually punch them.

 

[zero knowledge]

So with the Schwalbe MM's this begs the question: HOW amazing would these tires be if they JUST reversed the direction of the %#@&ing SIDE knobs?! Would it be a huge difference, or a small, marginal one? No one knows... shame.

It's not that hard to try it - just put it backwards on a trail that braking is not that critical. I've done this with a slightly worn MM in the spring. It's not a huge difference until you start to push it. On the limits of traction the tire let's go a bit later and rapid changes of direction are also more predictable. Regaining control after the tire starts sliding is easier. These effects are more pronounced on loose over hardpack, in the soft stuff it's harder to compare directly since the tire digs really well. Still I much prefer the MM backwards and since the first test I run it mostly that way.

 

[HAB]

If anyone says nevegal in my presence I usually punch them.

One of the guys I regularly ride with, who is quite a good trail rider, still insists on riding those steaming piles. I have no idea what the **** is wrong with him.

 

[kidwoo]

It's not that hard to try it - just put it backwards on a trail that braking is not that critical. I've done this with a slightly worn MM in the spring. It's not a huge difference until you start to push it. On the limits of traction the tire let's go a bit later and rapid changes of direction are also more predictable. Regaining control after the tire starts sliding is easier. These effects are more pronounced on loose over hardpack, in the soft stuff it's harder to compare directly since the tire digs really well. Still I much prefer the MM backwards and since the first test I run it mostly that way.

Thank you.

 

['size]

I'm not sure why the Sales Dept. decided to stop publishing the durometer of the compounds used. It isn't a secret, and it tells very little about the properties of the compound other than its hardness. But it is useful in a way.

according to internet : "While the Minion DHR II is not exactly news, I was interested in finding out about tread compounds on the new series of Maxxis tires. The reps at the booth at first dodged my questions about durometers, and then let on that the company is no longer advertising these numbers to preserve their intellectual property. Basically the 2013 line will be marketed with three compound options generally corresponding with their current offerings of "race hard", "trail medium", and "DH sticky"."

 

[S.K.C.]

Woo and Zero:

Of course! You could run it backwards, but if we're talking about pure performance of the tread as a whole (side knobs, channels, center knobs, ramps) it's not really the same result as one would get if Schwalbe actually designed the tire this way (side knobs facing the proper direction with ramps and channels facing the direction of rotation). So running it backwards is an extrapolation of what it could be, but not the actual result. As a unified design, I'm wondering what the difference in performance would be at the margin and what the percieved difference in feel would be by the rider between running it backwards vs. if it were designed the way suggested (angle side knobs reversed).

 

[kidwoo]

Or you just buy a tire designed by someone who knows what the fvck they're doing.
(okay Udi, THAT was hate )

 

[Jeremy R]

If anyone says nevegal in my presence I usually punch them.

I just hear the sound of air rapidly being given its freedom from a bike tire.
I pronouce Negegal Pssssssssssssssssssssssssss......

Ha, in all seriousness, I take your tire reviews with a grain of salt for the simple fact I know that we are riding vastly different terrain. You are going to prefer and need a tire that works in loose moondust, and I am gonna need a tire (DH anyway) that works on wet slick dirt rocks and roots. For example, I can normally run Michelin comp 16 tires on anything right up until I need to switch to spikes for deep mud. But I also agree that some tread patterns just plain work. For example, a ton of people here run Butchers with great success. They all say that they grip as well as Minions in the dry, and they can leave them on longer in the wet as they do not pack up as bad.
That said, and this is coming from a long time Michelin rider, I lucked into two sets of schwalbes earlier this year from a company getting rid of its stock. A set of Muddy Mary tires and a set of the DD spikes. The weekend I raced the MM tires the whole course was wet, but not muddy. Slick off camber grass turns, and greasy roots and rocks all the way down. Those tires are just incredible in those conditions. I don't think they slipped all weekend long. Just crazy grip on the wet slick stuff. This last weekend, I raced that same mountain bone dry, and they were still really good, but nothing crazy. Now, onto the DD tires, they are ridiculous. That is the first high volume mud tire I have ever ridden, and they are awesome. The best thing about them is if the track dries out before your race run, they still work great in the dry. In pure deep mud they do clog up a little more than something like a tiny 2.2 michelin mud, and it is because of those crazy little knobs on the side of the tire. But once the track dried out a little, they were perfect all day.
Honestly, I probaly will not buy anymore of the MM tires even though they work so well. They are expensive and wear out really fast, and I am loyal to Michelin anyway. But I am gonna keep my set of DD, because those things are straight cheater tires in certain conditions.