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That's how he does it.....

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/news/?id=/news/2008/jul08/jul17news4

Italian rider Riccardo Riccò of Saunier Duval has tested positive for blood booster Erythropoietin (EPO), French sports daily L'Equipe reported on its website on Thursday. According to the paper's Damien Ressiot, one of the climber's urine samples collected by the French Anti-Doping Agency AFLD showed traces of a third generation EPO called CERA (Continuous Erythropoietin Receptor Activator).

Riccò, who won two stages in the Tour de France (the sixth and ninth), was ninth on general classification before the news broke on Thursday morning. The Italian's impressive performances have in the past been explained by his naturally high hematocrit level.

The Italian from Spanish team Saunier Duval was part of a targeted group of riders. Since the start of the race in Brest, the AFLD performed numerous anti-doping tests on him, at least four according to L'Equipe.

Riccò will not continue the race. This morning at the start of stage 12 from Lavelanet to Narbonne, he was taken from his team bus into a team car, which him to the police station. Cyclingnews' Gregor Brown confirmed that the Italian was taken into police custody for questioning.

Directeur sportif Joxean Fernandez Matxin was surprised as anybody. "We only found out ten minutes ago. The entire team is ceasing its operation, not only in the Tour de France."

Fernandez described the final moments before Riccò was driven off. "He sat in the team bus and was not able to say anything. We didn't want to make a scene with the police. They let us drive him away in the team car. A police officer accompanied him in the car."
My guess is that he was taking too much glory from the French.....
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
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Concern has been raised over doping controls held at this year’s Tour de France, with a manager from an un-named team contacting the UCI in relation to the selection of riders and the actual method of gathering samples.

The AFLD [French national anti-doping agency] has been appointed by race organiser ASO to carry out the tests in the aftermath of its split from the UCI. According to the team manager, only about fifty riders were tested thus far, with several being tested more than once. The Spanish are being examined most frequently, while testing of French riders was said to 'rarely occur.'

He gave an example of a lack of testing of a French team, saying that of the Crédit Agricole riders, only stage winner Thor Hushovd was tested since the start of the race.


In addition, concern was raised about the actual testing process. The chaperones were described as 'incapable,' with the manager saying that on the eleventh stage, one was unable to correctly fill out the required forms. Also, when large numbers of riders were required for testing, the area was said to be not sufficiently large and that some of the riders were required to wait outside beside journalists and photographers.

ASO and the AFLD said before the race that they would be focusing on targeted testing rather than a scattergun approach. Two Spanish riders have already tested non-negative for EPO and been ejected from the race, namely Manuel Beltran (Liquigas) and Moises Duenas Nevado (Barloworld).
of course the French can't be doping.....
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
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Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Oh wait a minute....

Ever since Agritubel's Christophe Moreau abandoned the Tour on stage seven from Brioude to Aurillac, the Frenchman's reasons have been questioned. Moreau complained of severe backaches and general fatigue that caused him to quit the race prematurely, to his own great disappointment. What intrigued French media, however, was that his own team management knew nothing of the rider's physical distress in the lead-up to his abandon. Moreover, rumours circulating of 10 to 20 riders in the peloton having irregular blood values prior to the Tour' start did not help Moreau's case.

The Agritubel leader rejected that he was one of the persons notified by the French Anti-Doping Agency AFLD. "The AFLD confirmed it - I am not concerned by this list," said Moreau to L'Equipe on Wednesday. "They're splitting hairs and analysing everything in the wrong way. No, you have to justify yourself when you're winning, but also when you're losing."

Explaining why his neither his team-mates nor team managers knew of his physical problems, Moreau said that it was because of his "pride and stubbornness. I didn't want to deceive anyone as everybody trusted me. They expected so much of me that I was finally caught in my own trap. I hid my problems until the end."

However, French newspaper Le Monde has cast doubts over the former Tour de France stage winner. Confirming that Moreau's blood values did not present any anomalies prior to the Grande Boucle, the paper however alleged that Moreau was sent a letter from the French federation doctor after Paris-Nice this spring. In the letter, the rider was notified of his too low blood cortisol values and asked to stop competing for a while.

Along with hematocrit, haemoglobin and reticulocytes, cortisol is part of the French "suivi longitudinal" anti-doping controls, a system similar to the UCI's blood passport, but that has been in place since 1999. Low cortisol in the blood is said to be directly related to the intake of corticoids, which block the natural production of cortisol. According to Le Monde, Moreau is the only French rider who was notified with a "counter-indication to the practice of cycling" in this way.

Agritubel manager David Fornes meanwhile declared to L'Equipe on Thursday that "Moreau was out of competition after Paris-Nice, but because he was ill. Now, if there are facts against him, show them to me and I will express myself on it."
They are just getting him back for being a huge failure.....
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
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Slacking at work
Man, when they were going up Hautacam and him and Piepoli pwn3d Evans and Menchov's group, I was like how the hell did they just do that? Oops.
 

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
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Man, when they were going up Hautacam and him and Piepoli pwn3d Evans and Menchov's group, I was like how the hell did they just do that? Oops.
Do you mean Cobo?


This is bad news. WTF. Can't we all just ride bikes? It's much more exciting than court cases and suspensions.
 

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
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Professor Michel Audran is one of the world's leading experts on blood doping. He is also one of nine independent experts chosen to act as consultants in the formulation of the UCI's biological passport. Daniel Friebe, Procycling features editor, spoke to Audran this morning within minutes of L'Equipe's web site announcing that Riccardo Riccò has tested positive for an EPO derivative after stage four of the Tour de France, the individual time trial around Cholet.

Daniel Friebe: In the last twenty minutes we've heard that Riccardo Riccò has tested positive for an EPO-like product. The early reports suggest that Riccò used CERA or Micera, a so-called third generation EPO. What's your reaction?

Michel Audran: Wow. I'm stunned. I'm amazed they're saying it's Micera, simply because there's no validated test for that yet. The World Anti-Doping Agency is working on a test, but it certainly doesn't exist yet.

DF: What exactly is CERA, or Micera to give it its commercial name?

MA:It's a delayed-action EPO, which has a different molecular mass from EPO. It's only been commercially available since the start of the year. We can tell when someone's used it but we can't declare them positive. In that respect it's like Dynepo, another EPO-like product. We know that Micera was being used on the Giro, so I'm not surprised that it's also turned up at the Tour. But I would be very surprised if they AFLD had declared Riccò positive for Micera, for the reasons I've just mentioned. Maybe they searched Riccò's room and found the product itself...

DF: What's the difference between Micera and traditional EPO?

MA: It's more convenient for clinical patients. They might only have to take Micera once a fortnight or once a month. EPO has to be administered much more often. The effect for an athlete is the same: raised haematocrit, raised haemoglobin, more oxygen to the muscles. It's funny, because Riccò has UCI certification for his high haematocrit already.

DF: You talked about the differences between EPO and Micera, and also the fact that the latter is visible in tests, even if it, until now, it couldn't lead to a positive test. Could you talk a little more about that?

MA: Well, you see synthetic EPO in urine in the form of bars on an electrophoregram. If a rider's taken Micera, the bars are located in a different place to those you see in a sample containing synthetic EPO.

DF: This is the third positive since the start of the Tour. Does that suggest to us that the testing being carried out by the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) is more rigorous that the UCI's?

MA: What the AFLD have done very well is target particular riders. I don't think their tests themselves are any more rigorous, though. They'll be adopting the same criteria for positive tests as WADA. I would say, though, that if the UCI's biological passports had been ready, which they should be soon, Riccò would never have started this Tour.
 

James

Carbon Porn Star
Sep 11, 2001
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I bet more than Ricco is doping on Saunier Duval...three of their guys drop all the contenders.
I don't think that's necessarily an indicator. None of those guys was a contender for the overall, so they could go out and kill themselves on a stage for the win, then not have to worry about losing time the next day.
 

OGRipper

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2004
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NORCAL is the hizzle
I am so jaded at this point that I am not even the least bit surprised. I actually said out loud the other day that I thought Ricco will get busted. I am bummed that I was right.

Guess he was trying a little too hard to be like his hero the Pirate.

An Olympic doping scandal could be the nail in the coffin.

sad sad day
another doper caught
what can you say
return the road bike you just bought
and ride yer mtb and have a good day

there's my poetic injustic for the day
I agree that it's sad, very sad. But if you think it's just roadies you are probably very wrong. I'll still ride my road bike.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
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I agree that it's sad, very sad. But if you think it's just roadies you are probably very wrong. I'll still ride my road bike.
:stupid:

There have been many mountain bike racers who have tested positive as well, Jerome and Filip come to mind.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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:stupid:

There have been many mountain bike racers who have tested positive as well, Jerome and Filip come to mind.
Not to mention swarms of MLB players that just never got tested and NFL players that just get slapped with a short suspension.

I think a lot of people think that just by doping you can become a competative cyclist. Those guys still have to work as hard as their body can allow, the dope just gives them that extra push.
 

maddog17

Turbo Monkey
Jan 20, 2008
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so wait.... the leading doc in the field says that one version of EPO can't be detected by tests, yet they know it exists. and Ricco has a higher than average hemocrit and the UCI is ok with it. so how can he be guilty of doping?

it's sad the whole team left because of one supposedly bad guy. i'm sure Scott isn't too happy about this either.

i'll say it again, might as well just let them dope and just put marks on any records... BD, Before Doping and AD, After Doping. doesnt seem that ASO is doing what they wanted to do and that's run a clean tour.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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When do you suspect that they start the AD period? There has been doping in professional sports since day one, the only thing that has changed are the drugs they use.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
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When do you suspect that they start the AD period? There has been doping in professional sports since day one, the only thing that has changed are the drugs they use.
:stupid:

It also depends on what you define as doping....is using alcohol to kill the pain doping? Way back when a lot of the pro roadies drank alcohol during races, not to mention the riders that used uppers to gain an advantage.
 

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
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I don't think that's necessarily an indicator. None of those guys was a contender for the overall, so they could go out and kill themselves on a stage for the win, then not have to worry about losing time the next day.

After Hautcamm the first thing that popped into my head was they were doping, and guess what...

They also pulled their entire team. Seems a little strange since they have two other guys in the top 25.
 

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
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The World Anti-doping Agency (WADA) has been working with drug makers to develop new tests for potential performance enhancing drugs before they can make their way into the peloton, the agency spokesman told Cyclingnews Thursday.

That fact became clear when news broke that Riccardo Riccò had failed a doping control at the Tour, and it was revealed that the drug which was found in his system was a third-generation EPO with the trade name Micera. The drug, also known generically as CERA (Continuous Erythropoietin Receptor Activator), only came out in the United States last year, and was made available in Europe at the start of 2008.

CERA is the latest form of EPO, and is similar to the previous drugs, except that it is connected to a chemical called polyethylene glycol (PEG), which makes it last longer in the body. The drug was rumoured to be blocked from the kidneys due to its size and therefore undetectable by urine-based doping controls.

WADA's spokesman, Frédéric Donzé, said that the news of Ricco's positive test "is a further indication that the net is closing on those athletes who still take the risk to dope".

Donzé revealed that the agency had worked with the drug's manufacturer, Roche Pharmaceuticals, to learn of new potentially performance enhancing agents and to develop tests for them before they can enter the market and be used by athletes.

"This case shows the significant work that WADA conducts in anticipating doping trends, including by closely cooperating with pharmaceutical companies at very early stages of the development of molecules or substances for therapeutic purposes to develop detection methods for anti-doping purposes.

"WADA is very much aware of the development of new EPOs and bio-similar EPOs in an expanding market," he said. "A number of these new EPOs and bio similar EPOs are well known and can be detected through current tests."

He was able to confirm that co-operation in the case of Micera has enabled its detection by WADA-accredited laboratories. "Thanks to the co-operation of the manufacturer of this substance (Roche) and of WADA-accredited laboratories, WADA received the molecule well in advance and was able to develop ways to detect it.

"WADA will continue to further enhance its detection methods for EPO as it does with every test, in order to further maximize chances of catching cheaters."
 

maddog17

Turbo Monkey
Jan 20, 2008
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When do you suspect that they start the AD period? There has been doping in professional sports since day one, the only thing that has changed are the drugs they use.
start it for next year. doesn't seem to me that any of them are going to stop doing it and neither are the chemists who create the stuff. why continue to waste the money for testing, developing the tests, admin the tests and all the rest that goes with it? let them dope, just use the asterik if they win the Tour. i think it's a long uphill battle that won't be won. let them cheat. in the end when some of them start dying off because they took the next greatest EPO or whatever because they have to beat the other guy, then maybe that will give them the kick in the head they need to stop. probably not, but one can only hope it would. but the asteriks stay forever. in the end, you'll never know who is still doping or not. i'm tired of hearing about it, i'm tired of hearing how whoever is going to clean up the sport or my team wont do this because we have things in place. bulls**t!!! the only way for a team to really control what's going on is if they have the team together all the time. they all live together in a compound, trusted people feed them, give medical advice or attention, their mail is checked for stuff. this will NEVER happen, but how else can you be sure?
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
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Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
start it for next year. doesn't seem to me that any of them are going to stop doing it and neither are the chemists who create the stuff. why continue to waste the money for testing, developing the tests, admin the tests and all the rest that goes with it? let them dope, just use the asterik if they win the Tour. i think it's a long uphill battle that won't be won. let them cheat. in the end when some of them start dying off because they took the next greatest EPO or whatever because they have to beat the other guy, then maybe that will give them the kick in the head they need to stop. probably not, but one can only hope it would. but the asteriks stay forever. in the end, you'll never know who is still doping or not. i'm tired of hearing about it, i'm tired of hearing how whoever is going to clean up the sport or my team wont do this because we have things in place. bulls**t!!! the only way for a team to really control what's going on is if they have the team together all the time. they all live together in a compound, trusted people feed them, give medical advice or attention, their mail is checked for stuff. this will NEVER happen, but how else can you be sure?

Two words:

Lyle Alzado
 

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,789
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Two words:

Lyle Alzado
How about Tom Simpson?


Another article on this: http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=/features/2008/tour08_aso_ricco_st12

Harsh words from Prudhomme:

"The fact that they decided to leave the race shows that they are responsible, or that they are guilty," Prudhomme continued. "I don't know if it is organized doping, but I saw – like all of you – that there were two riders a level above the competition on Hautacam," he said, referring to the one-two stage finish of Leonardo Piepoli and Juan Jose Cobo.

"I have my opinion on the manager [Mauro Gianetti] – a person who does not have good virtue - and that opinion will not change in two months, five months, six months, two years, three years... for the sponsor this is terrible news," said Prudhomme.



Not really sure if I buy his argument. There are certainly other reasons for leaving. Also, some riders just have good days. I have no idea if Cobo and Piepoli doped, but they weren't going for the GC (also meaning others didn't have to follow them).
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
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I can't, for a moment, figure why they would do it and know that they will be tested. I assume that someone is telling them that they won't test positive for that particular instance. I think it goes way deeper than the riders.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
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"The fact that they decided to leave the race shows that they are responsible, or that they are guilty," Prudhomme continued. "I don't know if it is organized doping, but I saw – like all of you – that there were two riders a level above the competition on Hautacam," he said, referring to the one-two stage finish of Leonardo Piepoli and Juan Jose Cobo.
I guess if you win a mountain stage then you must be guilty. Could any of the contenders stayed with those two? Who knows they had their own deal going on that made those two unimportant. In the end they only finished 2'17" behind. Schleck couldn't but then again they worked him over pretty good but he still finished within 30" of them. Why not call him out?

The scary bit is that with the destruction of the UCI, the mafia, I mean ASO is going to be able to pick and choose the teams they let in. Win too many stages and whoa nelly out you go. Do too well and you don't get an invite. But probably more importantly don't be French or show up the French and see what happens.
 
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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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I can't, for a moment, figure why they would do it and know that they will be tested. I assume that someone is telling them that they won't test positive for that particular instance. I think it goes way deeper than the riders.

They didn't think there was a test for it.

AFLD director Pierre Bordry confirmed that Ricardo Ricco was not the first rider to test positive for the new drug, Micera. In fact, all three riders who turned up positive at the Tour this year were caught using this new "third generation" version of EPO. Apparently, the rumor that AFLD and WADA didn't have a test for the new drug were wrong. Surprise gentlemen!
That's awesome.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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The question is if it is a new test , how reliable is it ?
I certainly know nothing about the tests but supposedly an official positive test requires higher levels of whatever chemicals than they probably need to be. In other words any inaccuracies should always work in the favor of the rider.

The three riders caught this year were caught because they were targeted under the new biological passport type program. They probably had some tests with levels that showed possible use but not high enough to get an official positive.

In years past previous test were never considered in who they tested. It was kind of like a cop looking for drunk drivers by pulling over random people instead of those weaving around the road.
 
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the F.H.B

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Jun 2, 2006
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Well Phil Ligget just annouced that the team have fired Piepoli as well so there's something going on there...
It's a real shame, I had enjoyed their attacking riding so far in the race :( now all thats left is to see if CSC or Rabobank can take Cadel apart in the Alps.
 

OGRipper

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2004
9,802
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The question is if it is a new test , how reliable is it ?

I know that is the Landis defense , but still we are talking about the french here.
If it is true that the drug manufacturer worked with WADA to develop the test, as has been reported, my bet is that the test itself is accurate. The bigger question for me is whether the test is being properly administered, samples properly handled, etc. As I recall that was the thrust of the Landis defense, but he may have also attacked the tests.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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If it is true that the drug manufacturer worked with WADA to develop the test, as has been reported, my bet is that the test itself is accurate. The bigger question for me is whether the test is being properly administered, samples properly handled, etc. As I recall that was the thrust of the Landis defense, but he may have also attacked the tests.

Blood tests are being done at a different lab that is supposed to be top notch.