http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/news/?id=/news/2008/jul08/jul17news4
My guess is that he was taking too much glory from the French.....
of course the French can't be doping.....
Oh wait a minute....
They are just getting him back for being a huge failure.....
So does this make three dopers already caught?
Damn,
A whole Spanish team gone.
French has a helluva deportation plan for Europe's Mexicans.
Road racing has become the biggest laughing stock in the entire sports world.
A whole Spanish team gone.
French has a helluva deportation plan for Europe's Mexicans.
Road racing has become the biggest laughing stock in the entire sports world.
Man, when they were going up Hautacam and him and Piepoli pwn3d Evans and Menchov's group, I was like how the hell did they just do that? Oops.
Do you mean Cobo?
This is bad news. WTF. Can't we all just ride bikes? It's much more exciting than court cases and suspensions.
So far...
Well thats officially it for the "cobra". I always had a feeling he was full of crap, I just didn't know it was literal.
I bet more than Ricco is doping on Saunier Duval...three of their guys drop all the contenders.
Professor Michel Audran is one of the world's leading experts on blood doping. He is also one of nine independent experts chosen to act as consultants in the formulation of the UCI's biological passport. Daniel Friebe, Procycling features editor, spoke to Audran this morning within minutes of L'Equipe's web site announcing that Riccardo Riccò has tested positive for an EPO derivative after stage four of the Tour de France, the individual time trial around Cholet.
Daniel Friebe: In the last twenty minutes we've heard that Riccardo Riccò has tested positive for an EPO-like product. The early reports suggest that Riccò used CERA or Micera, a so-called third generation EPO. What's your reaction?
Michel Audran: Wow. I'm stunned. I'm amazed they're saying it's Micera, simply because there's no validated test for that yet. The World Anti-Doping Agency is working on a test, but it certainly doesn't exist yet.
DF: What exactly is CERA, or Micera to give it its commercial name?
MA:It's a delayed-action EPO, which has a different molecular mass from EPO. It's only been commercially available since the start of the year. We can tell when someone's used it but we can't declare them positive. In that respect it's like Dynepo, another EPO-like product. We know that Micera was being used on the Giro, so I'm not surprised that it's also turned up at the Tour. But I would be very surprised if they AFLD had declared Riccò positive for Micera, for the reasons I've just mentioned. Maybe they searched Riccò's room and found the product itself...
DF: What's the difference between Micera and traditional EPO?
MA: It's more convenient for clinical patients. They might only have to take Micera once a fortnight or once a month. EPO has to be administered much more often. The effect for an athlete is the same: raised haematocrit, raised haemoglobin, more oxygen to the muscles. It's funny, because Riccò has UCI certification for his high haematocrit already.
DF: You talked about the differences between EPO and Micera, and also the fact that the latter is visible in tests, even if it, until now, it couldn't lead to a positive test. Could you talk a little more about that?
MA: Well, you see synthetic EPO in urine in the form of bars on an electrophoregram. If a rider's taken Micera, the bars are located in a different place to those you see in a sample containing synthetic EPO.
DF: This is the third positive since the start of the Tour. Does that suggest to us that the testing being carried out by the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) is more rigorous that the UCI's?
MA: What the AFLD have done very well is target particular riders. I don't think their tests themselves are any more rigorous, though. They'll be adopting the same criteria for positive tests as WADA. I would say, though, that if the UCI's biological passports had been ready, which they should be soon, Riccò would never have started this Tour.
Daniel Friebe: In the last twenty minutes we've heard that Riccardo Riccò has tested positive for an EPO-like product. The early reports suggest that Riccò used CERA or Micera, a so-called third generation EPO. What's your reaction?
Michel Audran: Wow. I'm stunned. I'm amazed they're saying it's Micera, simply because there's no validated test for that yet. The World Anti-Doping Agency is working on a test, but it certainly doesn't exist yet.
DF: What exactly is CERA, or Micera to give it its commercial name?
MA:It's a delayed-action EPO, which has a different molecular mass from EPO. It's only been commercially available since the start of the year. We can tell when someone's used it but we can't declare them positive. In that respect it's like Dynepo, another EPO-like product. We know that Micera was being used on the Giro, so I'm not surprised that it's also turned up at the Tour. But I would be very surprised if they AFLD had declared Riccò positive for Micera, for the reasons I've just mentioned. Maybe they searched Riccò's room and found the product itself...
DF: What's the difference between Micera and traditional EPO?
MA: It's more convenient for clinical patients. They might only have to take Micera once a fortnight or once a month. EPO has to be administered much more often. The effect for an athlete is the same: raised haematocrit, raised haemoglobin, more oxygen to the muscles. It's funny, because Riccò has UCI certification for his high haematocrit already.
DF: You talked about the differences between EPO and Micera, and also the fact that the latter is visible in tests, even if it, until now, it couldn't lead to a positive test. Could you talk a little more about that?
MA: Well, you see synthetic EPO in urine in the form of bars on an electrophoregram. If a rider's taken Micera, the bars are located in a different place to those you see in a sample containing synthetic EPO.
DF: This is the third positive since the start of the Tour. Does that suggest to us that the testing being carried out by the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) is more rigorous that the UCI's?
MA: What the AFLD have done very well is target particular riders. I don't think their tests themselves are any more rigorous, though. They'll be adopting the same criteria for positive tests as WADA. I would say, though, that if the UCI's biological passports had been ready, which they should be soon, Riccò would never have started this Tour.
I don't think that's necessarily an indicator. None of those guys was a contender for the overall, so they could go out and kill themselves on a stage for the win, then not have to worry about losing time the next day.
sad sad day
another doper caught
what can you say
return the road bike you just bought
and ride yer mtb and have a good day
there's my poetic injustic for the day
another doper caught
what can you say
return the road bike you just bought
and ride yer mtb and have a good day
there's my poetic injustic for the day
I am so jaded at this point that I am not even the least bit surprised. I actually said out loud the other day that I thought Ricco will get busted. I am bummed that I was right.
Guess he was trying a little too hard to be like his hero the Pirate.
An Olympic doping scandal could be the nail in the coffin.
Guess he was trying a little too hard to be like his hero the Pirate.
An Olympic doping scandal could be the nail in the coffin.
I agree that it's sad, very sad. But if you think it's just roadies you are probably very wrong. I'll still ride my road bike.
There have been many mountain bike racers who have tested positive as well, Jerome and Filip come to mind.
Not to mention swarms of MLB players that just never got tested and NFL players that just get slapped with a short suspension.
There have been many mountain bike racers who have tested positive as well, Jerome and Filip come to mind.
I think a lot of people think that just by doping you can become a competative cyclist. Those guys still have to work as hard as their body can allow, the dope just gives them that extra push.
so wait.... the leading doc in the field says that one version of EPO can't be detected by tests, yet they know it exists. and Ricco has a higher than average hemocrit and the UCI is ok with it. so how can he be guilty of doping?
it's sad the whole team left because of one supposedly bad guy. i'm sure Scott isn't too happy about this either.
i'll say it again, might as well just let them dope and just put marks on any records... BD, Before Doping and AD, After Doping. doesnt seem that ASO is doing what they wanted to do and that's run a clean tour.
it's sad the whole team left because of one supposedly bad guy. i'm sure Scott isn't too happy about this either.
i'll say it again, might as well just let them dope and just put marks on any records... BD, Before Doping and AD, After Doping. doesnt seem that ASO is doing what they wanted to do and that's run a clean tour.
When do you suspect that they start the AD period? There has been doping in professional sports since day one, the only thing that has changed are the drugs they use.
It also depends on what you define as doping....is using alcohol to kill the pain doping? Way back when a lot of the pro roadies drank alcohol during races, not to mention the riders that used uppers to gain an advantage.
It should have been clear well before the Tour started tha Il Cobra was on drugs.
http://bp1.blogger.com/_wb8bAl1P-N0/SH83kKb4TJI/AAAAAAAACn8/H_fkUvgU6wg/s1600-h/ricco.jpg
http://bp1.blogger.com/_wb8bAl1P-N0/SH83kKb4TJI/AAAAAAAACn8/H_fkUvgU6wg/s1600-h/ricco.jpg
After Hautcamm the first thing that popped into my head was they were doping, and guess what...
They also pulled their entire team. Seems a little strange since they have two other guys in the top 25.
The World Anti-doping Agency (WADA) has been working with drug makers to develop new tests for potential performance enhancing drugs before they can make their way into the peloton, the agency spokesman told Cyclingnews Thursday.
That fact became clear when news broke that Riccardo Riccò had failed a doping control at the Tour, and it was revealed that the drug which was found in his system was a third-generation EPO with the trade name Micera. The drug, also known generically as CERA (Continuous Erythropoietin Receptor Activator), only came out in the United States last year, and was made available in Europe at the start of 2008.
CERA is the latest form of EPO, and is similar to the previous drugs, except that it is connected to a chemical called polyethylene glycol (PEG), which makes it last longer in the body. The drug was rumoured to be blocked from the kidneys due to its size and therefore undetectable by urine-based doping controls.
WADA's spokesman, Frédéric Donzé, said that the news of Ricco's positive test "is a further indication that the net is closing on those athletes who still take the risk to dope".
Donzé revealed that the agency had worked with the drug's manufacturer, Roche Pharmaceuticals, to learn of new potentially performance enhancing agents and to develop tests for them before they can enter the market and be used by athletes.
"This case shows the significant work that WADA conducts in anticipating doping trends, including by closely cooperating with pharmaceutical companies at very early stages of the development of molecules or substances for therapeutic purposes to develop detection methods for anti-doping purposes.
"WADA is very much aware of the development of new EPOs and bio-similar EPOs in an expanding market," he said. "A number of these new EPOs and bio similar EPOs are well known and can be detected through current tests."
He was able to confirm that co-operation in the case of Micera has enabled its detection by WADA-accredited laboratories. "Thanks to the co-operation of the manufacturer of this substance (Roche) and of WADA-accredited laboratories, WADA received the molecule well in advance and was able to develop ways to detect it.
"WADA will continue to further enhance its detection methods for EPO as it does with every test, in order to further maximize chances of catching cheaters."
That fact became clear when news broke that Riccardo Riccò had failed a doping control at the Tour, and it was revealed that the drug which was found in his system was a third-generation EPO with the trade name Micera. The drug, also known generically as CERA (Continuous Erythropoietin Receptor Activator), only came out in the United States last year, and was made available in Europe at the start of 2008.
CERA is the latest form of EPO, and is similar to the previous drugs, except that it is connected to a chemical called polyethylene glycol (PEG), which makes it last longer in the body. The drug was rumoured to be blocked from the kidneys due to its size and therefore undetectable by urine-based doping controls.
WADA's spokesman, Frédéric Donzé, said that the news of Ricco's positive test "is a further indication that the net is closing on those athletes who still take the risk to dope".
Donzé revealed that the agency had worked with the drug's manufacturer, Roche Pharmaceuticals, to learn of new potentially performance enhancing agents and to develop tests for them before they can enter the market and be used by athletes.
"This case shows the significant work that WADA conducts in anticipating doping trends, including by closely cooperating with pharmaceutical companies at very early stages of the development of molecules or substances for therapeutic purposes to develop detection methods for anti-doping purposes.
"WADA is very much aware of the development of new EPOs and bio-similar EPOs in an expanding market," he said. "A number of these new EPOs and bio similar EPOs are well known and can be detected through current tests."
He was able to confirm that co-operation in the case of Micera has enabled its detection by WADA-accredited laboratories. "Thanks to the co-operation of the manufacturer of this substance (Roche) and of WADA-accredited laboratories, WADA received the molecule well in advance and was able to develop ways to detect it.
"WADA will continue to further enhance its detection methods for EPO as it does with every test, in order to further maximize chances of catching cheaters."
start it for next year. doesn't seem to me that any of them are going to stop doing it and neither are the chemists who create the stuff. why continue to waste the money for testing, developing the tests, admin the tests and all the rest that goes with it? let them dope, just use the asterik if they win the Tour. i think it's a long uphill battle that won't be won. let them cheat. in the end when some of them start dying off because they took the next greatest EPO or whatever because they have to beat the other guy, then maybe that will give them the kick in the head they need to stop. probably not, but one can only hope it would. but the asteriks stay forever. in the end, you'll never know who is still doping or not. i'm tired of hearing about it, i'm tired of hearing how whoever is going to clean up the sport or my team wont do this because we have things in place. bulls**t!!! the only way for a team to really control what's going on is if they have the team together all the time. they all live together in a compound, trusted people feed them, give medical advice or attention, their mail is checked for stuff. this will NEVER happen, but how else can you be sure?
How about Tom Simpson?
Another article on this: http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=/features/2008/tour08_aso_ricco_st12
Harsh words from Prudhomme:
"The fact that they decided to leave the race shows that they are responsible, or that they are guilty," Prudhomme continued. "I don't know if it is organized doping, but I saw like all of you that there were two riders a level above the competition on Hautacam," he said, referring to the one-two stage finish of Leonardo Piepoli and Juan Jose Cobo.
"I have my opinion on the manager [Mauro Gianetti] a person who does not have good virtue - and that opinion will not change in two months, five months, six months, two years, three years... for the sponsor this is terrible news," said Prudhomme.
Not really sure if I buy his argument. There are certainly other reasons for leaving. Also, some riders just have good days. I have no idea if Cobo and Piepoli doped, but they weren't going for the GC (also meaning others didn't have to follow them).
I can't, for a moment, figure why they would do it and know that they will be tested. I assume that someone is telling them that they won't test positive for that particular instance. I think it goes way deeper than the riders.
I guess if you win a mountain stage then you must be guilty. Could any of the contenders stayed with those two? Who knows they had their own deal going on that made those two unimportant. In the end they only finished 2'17" behind. Schleck couldn't but then again they worked him over pretty good but he still finished within 30" of them. Why not call him out?
The scary bit is that with the destruction of the UCI, the mafia, I mean ASO is going to be able to pick and choose the teams they let in. Win too many stages and whoa nelly out you go. Do too well and you don't get an invite. But probably more importantly don't be French or show up the French and see what happens.
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The question is if it is a new test , how reliable is it ?
I know that is the Landis defense , but still we are talking about the french here.
I know that is the Landis defense , but still we are talking about the french here.
I certainly know nothing about the tests but supposedly an official positive test requires higher levels of whatever chemicals than they probably need to be. In other words any inaccuracies should always work in the favor of the rider.
The three riders caught this year were caught because they were targeted under the new biological passport type program. They probably had some tests with levels that showed possible use but not high enough to get an official positive.
In years past previous test were never considered in who they tested. It was kind of like a cop looking for drunk drivers by pulling over random people instead of those weaving around the road.
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Well Phil Ligget just annouced that the team have fired Piepoli as well so there's something going on there...
It's a real shame, I had enjoyed their attacking riding so far in the race
now all thats left is to see if CSC or Rabobank can take Cadel apart in the Alps.
It's a real shame, I had enjoyed their attacking riding so far in the race
now all thats left is to see if CSC or Rabobank can take Cadel apart in the Alps.Just read on velonews that Piepoli has been fired- unclear why though. Saunier Duval is considering pulling their sponsorship.
If it is true that the drug manufacturer worked with WADA to develop the test, as has been reported, my bet is that the test itself is accurate. The bigger question for me is whether the test is being properly administered, samples properly handled, etc. As I recall that was the thrust of the Landis defense, but he may have also attacked the tests.
Blood tests are being done at a different lab that is supposed to be top notch.