[Andeh]

Coincidentally, the day before this was brought up here, I was just thinking about giving 750 a try on one of my bikes, down from 760. I stand a lofty 5'8". Both my bikes have ~450 reach and 40mm stems. I was thinking that it'd probably help speed up handling in tight, quick, steep corners, where my weight ends up further back. When I overforked one of the bikes to 170mm from 160, I feel like it made it handle better too due to the increased stack bringing the bars up.

Keeping wider bars for stability on a 170mm travel bike with 29 front, DH casing tires, and 38mm stanchion fork seems kinda excessive lol. I honestly don't remember the last time I was riding down something and really felt like bumps or rocks were twisting the front wheel off line. With modern enduro components, the front wheel is going to go wherever you point it.

 

[Gary]

Once upon a time in a time now forgotten older shorter bikes got a lot of their stability from wider bars n lower BBs.
Shorter folk on long stable modern bikes simply can't handle a bike so well with a really wide bar combined with the longer reach.
#science.
Plenty average height riders' bmx and DJ bikes have wider bars than WC DH race bikes.
Do what you want if it works for you. '(or even if it doesn't) s'not like anyone really gives a fuck. Is it?

 

[sethimus]

Plenty average height riders' bmx and DJ bikes have wider bars than WC DH race bikes.

extra wider bars to grab them on the inside, next to the bend

 

[canadmos]

Eh who cares what width bars are. As long as it works for whoever is using them. If you're ripping out your bar plugs or pinging your pinky fingers off trees, maybe its time to trim 'em a tiny bit?

I've always floated around 760-780mm. Ran 780mm a bunch of years ago, but then those bars grabbed a vine on some tight trails and catapulted me into a seperated shoulder. Cut those things down to 760mm and ran them all like that, up until this year. Back on the 780mm train again, but will probably trim them down again to 770mm.

 

[djjohnr]

I listened to this on the plane the other day, it's worth hearing - https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-progression/sizing-up-or-down-plus-handlebar-widths-and-crankarm-lengths-mtb-fit-with-jason-at-retul/. The guy knows his shit, and basically says its a mix of body type, riding style, terrain, bike and a lot of personal preference. I'm 5'10" with fairly wide but not extremely wide shoulders, and ever since I started riding would have my hands off the ends of the bars as much as possible. Whenever there was a chance to size up bars I did. I was really happy at 780 for awhile with my hands fully on the bars finally, but when reaches on larges went from 460 to 480 I was back to having my hands hang off the bars and went up to 800. I've tried going back to 780 and just don't like it.

"Jason Williams is the Senior Sports Scientist in the Human Performance division at Specialized and a bike fitter at Retul, a Specialized brand that’s focused on delivering technically advanced bike fitting and product matching technology. Retul works with top level athletes and uses collected data to help inform product design, notably the Specialized Body Geometry line."

 

[boostindoubles]

I've been stuck around 780 for over a decade and it works for me!

As for DH racing - Transition's ladies team has a couple hometown heros on the roster. The Ostgaard sisters grew up as groms here on our trails. It's amazing to see them topping podiums and Taylor is heading to Europe this summer to race World Cup. I hope she blows minds out there!

 

[Gary]

extra wider bars to grab them on the inside, next to the bend

Not always but yeah others rocking the tightrope artist balance pole look is another thing not to worry you're pretty l'il head about. Especially considering most of those guys have way more skill and balls than the average middle aged ex downhill mountain biking forum user.

 

[toodles]

Pros simply spend time to test different setups, we don't so we stay with what felt good in the past. That's why.

Pros don't need to pay $$$s if they experiment with cutting their bars and go too narrow either.

If you're ripping out your bar plugs or pinging your pinky fingers off trees, maybe its time to trim 'em a tiny bit?

Ssssshhh I have a bunch of pinky finger surgeries and xrays that suggest I'm being stubborn running 780 on everything.

Actually, Melamed was saying last year he was running some 8 year old bars or something because he found cutting down bars that were made at 800 to 750 made them too stiff because they have to be strengthened for being run at 800. Bars made specifically for being 750 worked better for him.

 

[canadmos]

Pros don't need to pay $$$s if they experiment with cutting their bars and go too narrow either.



Ssssshhh I have a bunch of pinky finger surgeries and xrays that suggest I'm being stubborn running 780 on everything.

Actually, Melamed was saying last year he was running some 8 year old bars or something because he found cutting down bars that were made at 800 to 750 made them too stiff because they have to be strengthened for being run at 800. Bars made specifically for being 750 worked better for him.

That's another good point, some bars you can't cut down too much. Forget which ones I saw or have, but they say right on it don't cut narrower than 770 or whatever. It wasn't a crazy narrow measurement or anything...

 

[canadmos]

I'm in the shed so that was easy, they are some Race Face Atlas bars.

These things were 820mm originally..

 

[toodles]

Thats strange hey. Wonder why? Unless the bar taper goes too far and you wouldn't be able to mount the controls?

 

[shirk007]

Actually, Melamed was saying last year he was running some 8 year old bars or something because he found cutting down bars that were made at 800 to 750 made them too stiff because they have to be strengthened for being run at 800. Bars made specifically for being 750 worked better for him.

I was just re-listening to Downtime Podcast with Jesse's bike check the other night. He's 167cm tall and running 720mm bars. He shared that he studied a bunch of the posted bar width to height ratios of the top DH guys (he's an engineer so he had a spreadsheet), for him the ratio worked out to roughly 720mm. He considered going shorter as the reach on his Rocky was a bit longer than he wanted. I reached out to him yesterday and he's still on 720mm on the shorter reach Canyon. To get your bar width take your height in mm and times by 0.43 and you too can be as fast as Jesse.

 

[Gary]

he's an engineer so he had a spreadsheet

This quote definitely needs it's own T-shirt

 

[Gary]

To get your bar width take your height in mm and times by 0.43

Completely ignoring shoulder width, chest/back width, arm length. bike sizing, mobility, hand positioning or any other personal preferences.
Bravo to "enginerding"
where's my fucking angle grinder?

 

[HAB]

Completely ignoring shoulder width, chest/back width, arm length. bike sizing, mobility, hand positioning or any other personal preferences.
Bravo to "enginerding"
where's my fucking angle grinder?

Nah, that height x 0.43 method happens to pretty much nail my personal preferred width so it's obviously 100% universally applicable to everyone else.

 

[mykel]

Well that ratio give me 801mm and I'm on 800 on the DH bike.
Fuck I got me some pro level bar width.
Too bad it does not translate into ability.

 

[norbar]

I was really happy at 780 for awhile with my hands fully on the bars finally, but when reaches on larges went from 460 to 480 I was back to having my hands hang off the bars and went up to 800. I've tried going back to 780 and just don't like it.

This is a bit weird. I agree with it being complicated but he went with wider bars on a longer bar? Shouldn't it be the opposite?

 

[norbar]

Pros don't need to pay $$$s if they experiment with cutting their bars and go too narrow either.

I mean most of us have been riding enough to have bars in a few lengths as long as we didn't get a 35mm bike so we can kinda do it too but yeah. Though yeah I am kinda worried to cut down my 35mm bars to 760 for the reason you mention.

 

[djjohnr]

This is a bit weird. I agree with it being complicated but he went with wider bars on a longer bar? Shouldn't it be the opposite?

What I've always noticed is in general the longer the bike the wider my hands want to be.

 

[norbar]

What I've always noticed is in general the longer the bike the wider my hands want to be.

Is your body infinite?

Though honestly I get that it feels like you want to stretch your arms but with a longer frame adding wider bars will limit your range of movement. I don't really see benefits.

 

[djjohnr]

Is your body infinite?

Though honestly I get that it feels like you want to stretch your arms but with a longer frame adding wider bars will limit your range of movement. I don't really see benefits.

Like anything else there's such thing as too long of a bike or too wide of a bar. You can also do this super amazing thing called moving your hands in and out depending on what you're riding. Obviously if your bars are so wide that you don't have the range of motion to fully lean the bike over you have a problem, but the 10mm per side past 780mm hasn't been an issue for me; the fact that I have a fairly long wingspan for my height may have something to do with it - YMMV.

 

[toodles]

Richie and Sam both racing our local DH today at Toowoomba on DH bikes. Keen to see how they go in the final but Richie smashed the field in qualis. He's been smashing laps there with Jared for the past few months though.

 

[Gary]

Cool. Post up results n gossip for us.

 

[Gary]

You can also do this super amazing thing called moving your hands in and out depending on what you're riding.

U SRS BRU?
On a climb or flat featureless section fair enough. But
Descending that's a pretty stupid strategy.

Sick of repeating this. But wingspan alone isn't a good judge of how wide to have your bars.

 

[djjohnr]

U SRS BRU?
On a climb or flat featureless section fair enough. But
Descending that's a pretty stupid strategy.

Sick of repeating this. But wingspan alone isn't a good judge of how wide to have your bars.

I move my hands in on dirt jumps/dual slalom, not mid-trail descending. You're right - wingspan alone probably isn't a good judge of how wide your bars should be...but guess what - neither are you.

 

[Gary]

Au contraire. I'm actually the BEST at determining how I like anything

 

[jstuhlman]

back to dh racing. pro line is tough in the dry...practice in the wet? so sketch

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Rude crushed Hill and the boys on the new Yeti sled.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-oceania-continental-championships-2023.html

Side note; Jesse is short as *uck!
There was a method where you use your shoulder width to get bar width, seems like a more sound methodology. Moir is over 6' and runs 760's I believe, blows the Melamed formula.

 

[jstuhlman]

agree on shoulder width being a better measure than height. i'm a touch over 6', which gave me something like 820 on the melamid scale. i've plated around and been happiest be far with things in the 760-780 range, depending on stem, reach, etc.

 

[Gary]

Fuck "formulas"
If you're happy. Your method is correct.

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

When I lived in Santa Cruz, the trails dictated max bar width more than anything. 760-770 was the widest I could safely run there, redwoods don't move when you hit them.

 

[toodles]

Rude crushed Hill and the boys on the new Yeti sled.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-oceania-continental-championships-2023.html

Richie put 3 seconds into the whole field on the first 1 min split. Mental.

 

[jstuhlman]

true, but there weren't really any other top tier dh racers there if we're being fair...

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Freaking Asa killed it again, beat Luca and Gwin by over 2 seconds at Downhill Southeast #2.

I don't think the kid can even drive yet.....

Asavermette on Instagram: "So stoked to get first in pro by over 2 seconds!!! At the 2nd round of the @downhillsoutheast next to some insane guys! : @chasingasa76 @zackharper1 @clayharper1 @frameworksracing @envecomposites @renen_bike @bcgoggleco @tld_bike @sensusgrips @2ndavesports"

3,020 likes, 253 comments - asavermette on April 16, 2023: "So stoked to get first in pro by over 2 seconds!!! At the 2nd round of the @downhillsoutheast next to some insane guys! : @chasingasa76 @zackharper1 @clayharper1 @frameworksracing @envecomposites @renen_bike @bcgoggleco @tld_bike...

www.instagram.com

 

[jstuhlman]

Freaking Asa killed it again, beat Luca and Gwin by over 2 seconds at Downhill Southeast #2.

I don't think the kid can even drive yet.....

Asavermette on Instagram: "So stoked to get first in pro by over 2 seconds!!! At the 2nd round of the @downhillsoutheast next to some insane guys! : @chasingasa76 @zackharper1 @clayharper1 @frameworksracing @envecomposites @renen_bike @bcgoggleco @tld_bike @sensusgrips @2ndavesports"

3,020 likes, 253 comments - asavermette on April 16, 2023: "So stoked to get first in pro by over 2 seconds!!! At the 2nd round of the @downhillsoutheast next to some insane guys! : @chasingasa76 @zackharper1 @clayharper1 @frameworksracing @envecomposites @renen_bike @bcgoggleco @tld_bike...

www.instagram.com

on one of neko's bikes, no less. awesome.

 

[SuspectDevice]

The depth of American Jr Talent is all time right now. The 0-16 Cat 1 kids fields are all packed at DHSE, and there is a solid crew of 12 and 13 year olds who just moved into the class, and understand they need to start working hard asap if they want to ride at the highest level.
I’m 30 years into being a fan and participant in mtb racing… and it kinda feels like 1997 out there again, with more than 450 people registered at Rock Creek, it’s the largest ever stand alone gravity race on the East Coast that i’ve ever seen.

 

[William42]

Riding up there on a regular weekend is pretty funny. There's what appears to be 8-10 year olds sending some of the harder lines on the DH trail. Talent is pretty deep there.

That said, doesn't bode well for Gwins goal of getting back to winning WC's if he's getting beaten by the juniors. Don't care if Asa turns out to be the WC in the juniors, the seniors are beating them by 10+ seconds 99/100 times at the world cups, and it doesn't look like Gwins gonna be on pace if thats where he is right now.

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Riding up there on a regular weekend is pretty funny. There's what appears to be 8-10 year olds sending some of the harder lines on the DH trail. Talent is pretty deep there.

That said, doesn't bode well for Gwins goal of getting back to winning WC's if he's getting beaten by the juniors. Don't care if Asa turns out to be the WC in the juniors, the seniors are beating them by 10+ seconds 99/100 times at the world cups, and it doesn't look like Gwins gonna be on pace if thats where he is right now.

It seems like Jackson and Jordan's results from last year are to the contrary. They were not 10 seconds off the wining Elite pace 99% of the time. VDS 4 seconds, MSA 2 seconds, Ft William 1 second....etc.

I think there are just some very fast kids coming up these days.

 

[fwp]

Riding up there on a regular weekend is pretty funny. There's what appears to be 8-10 year olds sending some of the harder lines on the DH trail. Talent is pretty deep there.

That said, doesn't bode well for Gwins goal of getting back to winning WC's if he's getting beaten by the juniors. Don't care if Asa turns out to be the WC in the juniors, the seniors are beating them by 10+ seconds 99/100 times at the world cups, and it doesn't look like Gwins gonna be on pace if thats where he is right now.

Luca looked to have a clean run and was also back 2 seconds. Looks like ASA is the best young american prospect since Rude and Luca/ Neko generation. Bet he's on the big factory teams radar now.
That said Gwin has been beat by young american talent in the past, beating Gwin at Rock Creek is a huge feather in anyone's cap but a 2 minute east coast bikepark track is almost a different sport than a WC DH track.
As an American DH fan I would love it if this kid could hang with Gwin at a Val di Sol or St Anne, But I wouldn't put my money on it? yet

 

[Avy]

Luca looked to have a clean run and was also back 2 seconds. Looks like ASA is the best young american prospect since Rude and Luca/ Neko generation. Bet he's on the big factory teams radar now.
That said Gwin has been beat by young american talent in the past, beating Gwin at Rock Creek is a huge feather in anyone's cap but a 2 minute east coast bikepark track is almost a different sport than a WC DH track.
As an American DH fan I would love it if this kid could hang with Gwin at a Val di Sol or St Anne, But I wouldn't put my money on it? yet

This is great news of up and coming soon tobe American Riders. I Thank Gwin for that,All of that.

I Love to see UCI Jr’s come into the Arena. This year will not let me down,as they never do to my memory?
As you said fwp,this is not the circuit. He will get his shot,that’s for sure,and Avy will see it Live. I am not letting my guard down on this German coming up (always forget his name) with Jackson.

Avy