Why not just keep it for now? While you could do better MPG-wise with another car, you seem to have the 'not driving' thing working for you thus making mileage a non-issue day to day. Taking a low-ball price just to save some gas money doesn't make sense.
While you can get those numbers I wouldn't expect to see them regularly unless your gearing is dialed perfectly. My 360hp (soon to get a +100rwhp EFI live tune) duramax can get 21+ @ 55-60mph but it goes down fast as speed increases. 75mph is good for only 18-19, and that's with a 6spd.
normally i'd agree with you 100%. however, my life's timeline is all screwy: i have three more days of clinic, an irrelevant presentation, an equally irrelevant end-of-clerkship test, and then i'm off for three solid weeks before wrapping up and getting hooded.
Honda Fit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Fit
$13950 + TTD for the one on the left, the non-Sport variant. 1.5 liters, 109 hp, 5 speed manual. LEV-2 emissions rating.
28/34/31 city/hwy/combined mileage on regular unleaded per the EPA. in base manual trim it weighs all of 2432 lbs, which is not bad for 90 cubic feet of interior room.
there's now a new-gen one out, but not in north america (will be a 2009 model). besides, like the Scion xB, it got bigger and heavier this time around.
Toyota Yaris. http://www.toyota.com/yaris/
$11,350 + TTD. 1.5 liter, 106 hp, 5-speed manual. ULEV-II emissions. drag coefficient reportedly 0.29. electric power steering pump! someone at toyota was thinking efficiency... weird central dashboard layout, however.
29/35 city/hwy mpg per the EPA. 84.6 cubic feet inside for the 3-door hatch.
and, of course, it is endorsed by our own ALEXIS_DH.
Tango. http://www.commutercars.com/
39" wide, and 60" tall. weight of 3000+ lbs, most of that SLA.
comes in several versions. the fast one is $108k. yes. but it is fast: runs 228-300V at up to 2000A. yes, it's fast, as in a 12 second at 120 mph kind of car. range of "40-80 miles" with SLA, more with NiMH or Li-ion.
the slower ones are projected to be cheaper, but they're just complete fantasies at this point...
remember the Automotive X-Prize, offering up $10 million for the vehicle that wins their competition while exceeding 100 mpg and being mass-producible? well, here's popular mechanics take on their presumed top-10 competitors...EcoCab. http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/April2008/21/c7345.html
cost: free to ride within toronto! (ad-supported.) specs unknown, but appears to use a front hub motor in addition to the poor sap in the drivers' seat.
if you wanted to build and run your own (ghetto BMW C1, anyone?) then here's what appears to be the chinese manufacturer's page: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/202780217/Electric_Three_Wheeler_CE/showimage.html
click through to read about the other 9... yes, Aptera and Tesla are on the list.
10. West Philly Hybrid EVX
West Philly Hybrid X (Philadelphia, Pa.) /// 130 mpg (both) /// $25,000 /// EVXTeam.org
Could a bunch of teenagers in an after-school class really build the first mainstream plug-in hybrid not coming out of Detroit? Don't put it past Simon Hauger's mechanical engineering students at West Philadelphia High Schoolthey've already won the Tour de Sol with an up-converted electric Saturn and the biodiesel Attack convertible pictured above. "Because they're kids, they're not limited by the common laws of physicsI never would have thought of some of their ideas," says Hauger, a math and physics teacher by day who started the program nine years ago with electric go-kart builds. "The other limitation is that because we're a small high-school team, we can't dream so far out of the box." But lithium-ion hybrid mods on a Toyota Corolla are a pretty good place to start for these surprisingly serious contenders.
How It Works
Combining an Azure Dynamics electric drive system with a Corolla chassis, Hybrid X plans to produce at least two different prototypes of its EVXfirst a two-cylinder diesel hybrid, then a gas version, and a possible ground-up build with a mystery biofuel courtesy of feel-good investors lining up by the minute. Like many competitors for the AXP, Hauger remains skeptical of promises from li-ion battery suppliers, so he and two other program administrators are now scouting new companies. A medium-length 110-volt charge should provide 40 miles on electricity alone, with perhaps upward of a 500-mile range after that.
Bottom Line
To get a prototype EVX on the road by summer's end in the buildup to X Prize stage races next fall, Boeing engineers will help the West Philly kids with body modifications and fuel-economy tests at a nearby wind tunnel. Meanwhile, Drexel University's MBA program has signed on to create a business plan to turn a high school's dream car into a sub-$25,000, American-made, four-door plug-inand market it to the biggest fleet customers in the industry. "I think a lot of teams are missing the point," Hauger says. "You can spend oodles of time to model this stuff, or you can just go build the thing, put it on the road, and make modifications from there to the finish line." Matt Sullivan
As much as I would love to run a DMax, $6k+ (haven't looked at that one, but that seems to be the starting point) is out of the question.
that's the thing, though: i wring the car out on an on-ramp here and there (can't let carbon buildup hurt the engine!
) but 95% of the time i'm doing 60 mph on cruise in the right hand lane.
old:
new (illustration):
Rumors that BMW is bringing back the Isetta appear to be true, and the latest word out of Munich is the modern take on the old classic will be an electric vehicle that's coming to America.
BMW brass are reportedly poised to sign off on the project in order to meet California's zero emissions vehicle mandate, which requires automakers to build 7,500 emissions-free cars by 2014. Company CEO Norbert Reithofer tells Britain's Autocar that BMW "would be obliged to sell a zero emissions vehicle under the U.S. regulations" and a electric vehicle was "the most likely answer."
Sweet. When does it get here?
Autocar says it could be in American showrooms by 2012 and may be offered globally, given rising fuel prices and the fact many European cities are aggressively cracking down on vehicle emissions.
Reithofer said BMW could have cranked out a few hundred vehicles to meet California's mandate and called it a day, but the concept might be used "not just for an electric car but a range of city cars" that could us small gasoline or diesel engines - or perhaps BMW's motorcycle engines.
There's no word yet on the car's specs, and BMW hasn't decided which brand the Isetta will wear. Could be BMW, could be Mini, could be something else. The company may consider working with another automaker - Mercedes' Smart division has been named - to keep costs down.
One thing's for sure. The new Isetta won't have the original's funky refrigerator-style door. To see what the new Isetta might look like, check out Autocar's exclusive image here.
I'm neither old enough nor Euro enough, but I DO remember that car...
well, it's verifiable that you're not euro enough. so unless my basic premises are wrong... QED.I'm neither old enough nor Euro enough, but I DO remember that car...
i have no idea how they came up with their cockeyed "61%" fuel cost savings figure, but the idea is cool.thelinkedarticle said:
looks like dan-o has nailed it. here's the story:
so we have numbers, and they can actually be non-negligible for wasteful vehicles with expensive gas. but does it make any sense? imo, not unless you actually had a need for a huge truck. keep in mind that it retails over $40k, probably wouldn't get my estimated mileage, is impossible to park, would depreciate like a rock (seen the incentives lately?), and would be very difficult to unload once the 3 yr program expired... however, this program probably will steer the scant remaining full-size truck buyers from other makes to dodge's door for the time being.
that's good to know. however, the Fit is now off my own personal table. if the RX-8 doesn't sell i'm obviously keeping it. if it does sell then i'm going downmarket, perhaps not as downmarket as a late-80s Tercel but significant enough to reap some immediate rewards while still retaining 4 wheels. or maybe a 3 wheeler... hmm
RMI said:
Figure 1. Toyota's impressive 1/X carbon-fiber concept car (2007) has the interior space of a Prius midsize hybrid, but is three times lighter and twice as fuel-effcient. Its half-liter flex-fuel engine, tucked under the rear seat, is supplemented by grid electricity via 20 extra kg of batteries. The plug-in hybrid's remaining curb mass, 400 kg, is exactly what I'd claimed in 1991 (to much industry mirth) a good carbon-fiber four-seater could weigh.
[...]
On 10 October 2007, Toyota announced the industrys best-yet Hypercar®-class concept car the 1/X (pronounced one-Xthsee Fig. 1) shown at the Tokyo Motor Show 26 October. Many concept cars never get to market. But a day earlier, Nikkei had reported that Toray, the worlds biggest carbon-fiber maker, plans a $0.3-billion factory in Nagoya to mass-produce carbon-fiber body panels and other auto parts for Toyota, Nissan, and others. Together, these two announcements signal strategic intent. Toyota is a proven gamechanger: in the U.S., its Prius hybrid, shown as a concept car in Tokyo in 1995, outsold in 2007 even Fords Explorerthe top-selling SUV for over a decade. In 2007 alone, U.S. Prius sales soared 69 percent to 181,221, while Explorer sales fell below onethird of their 2000 peak of 445,000.1 Toyota reported 2007 U.S. hybrid sales totaling 257,76076 percent of the national hybrid market. Now practically all automakers are selling or urgently developing hybrids to try to catch up with Toyota.
During 19872006, the average light-duty vehicle sold in the U.S. got 29 percent heavier; cars alone got 17 percent heavier and 12 percent denser; but only 30 percent of the fleets weight gain (and none in recent years) was caused by bigger cars or by shifts to SUVs, vans, and pickups. Instead, the obesity came from materials and design. Yet in recent months, strategy has begun to go lean: integrative lightweight design has emerged as an important trend. In November 2007, Ford led by announcing a 250750-pound weight cut in all cars starting in Model Year 2012 (as soon as production can shift) to capture unexpectedly big design synergies. (Mazda had already been quietly lightweighting.) Two months later, Nissan announced a 15 percent average weight cut by MY2015, and China announced an auto lightweighting alliance aiming to cut 660 pounds out of the average car by 2010. Lightweighting is finally emerging as the hottest strategic trend in the industry.
[... much more at the link]
with the controller limit set at 35A i was using up to 1300W peak! as my use of ~20Wh per mile wasn't bad, i'm clearly not drawing that all the time, but it's nice to have that power available for bursts.the electric bike works! got it working this morning, and now it has just shy of 20 miles on it. i'm using about 20 Wh per mile with my usual pedaling (which is good as there's 48V * 12 Ah, or 576 Wh total battery capacity).
top speed on the flat is around 25 mph in a tuck with no pedaling. right now the gearing on the Nexus hub is such that i'm spinning 100 rpm cadence around 20 mph, but i'll remedy that shortly and will be able to pedal along at 25 mph.
i had some questions about this product after reading the page, and they replied within a few hours.The Poulsen Hybrid. http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/index.html $3300 for the SLA version.
Poulsen Hybrid® Power Assist System
patents pending
Creates a PHEV by retro-fitting electric motors, DC motor controllers, storage batteries and an on-board charger to a conventional new or used automobile.
The development is based on the observation that only 10-15 horsepower is required to propel a compact or mid-size automobile along a level road at a steady 60-70 mph. leading to the conclusion that this relatively small amount of electric power would be able to cope with 70-85% of normal driving, only aided by the combustion engine during start up and when extra energy is required for acceleration and hill climbing.
The patented system incorporates powerful electric motors mounted externally onto 2 wheels of a conventional car. The motors are normally applied to the rear wheels, in the process converting a front wheel driven car to all wheel drive. The system works equally well with rear- and all wheel drive vehicles, gasoline or diesel fueled.
[...]
their replies:
who wants to be the guinea pig for this one?
Check out the now debunked "Portland Yellow Bike" program. It has evolved into some cool programs, but the fact remains that people suck.
very cool! i think a few pages back i made a post about an e-bike sharing program in the works. you might want to hunt that down, although it will be difficult in this beast of a thread.
I remember that program, stealing was a huge deal. I've been asked to make the frames slightly 'undesirable' to help avoid stealing, but at the end of the day people will steal anything. Personaly I think the project needs citywide support for it to exist for any extended period of time. The DC program will provide some insightful lessons on stealing
it actually rides pretty well! it is very stiff over bumps, with this tendency exacerbated by the high-mounted battery not entirely secure within its trunk, but the handling is quite benign when moving. it's certainly possible to pedal on leg power alone -- it just feels really heavy. just a tiny twist of the throttle and that weight is gone, and a bit more and you can really feel it.
The fact that people were willing to steal a beater bike rattle canned yellow in a hippie town like Portland is a sad sign for humanity.I remember that program, stealing was a huge deal. I've been asked to make the frames slightly 'undesirable' to help avoid stealing, but at the end of the day people will steal anything. Personaly I think the project needs citywide support for it to exist for any extended period of time. The DC program will provide some insightful lessons on stealing
Though it's not my favorite method of funding, cities are figuring that a good amount of money can be had by ads on the bikes too.
i ended up trying a few battery mounting options today.
given that i appear to have plenty of battery capacity for the length of trips i make and that the electric bits will push the bike to a solid ~25 mph on flat ground i did an experiment today. note that i post with proper capitalization elsewhere, heh.Toshi said:
Toshi said:I had a chance to try out this technique today over 12.33 hilly* miles. Via my spreadsheet I used 24.55 Wh/mile. I didn't check the CA before disconnecting the battery to bring it up to charge, but the figures have been within 6% or so, so it's in the ballpark.
On uphills I maintained 18-20 mph, sometimes taking all of my effort in addition to all the motor could put out at its 18 mph power peak. On flat sections with a semi-tuck (difficult with wide riser bars!) I was jetting along at anywhere from 23-27 mph. These figures that I've been seeing are roughly on par with those that Bob McKree reported, perhaps a little more efficient. This is not surprising since I'm pedaling basically every start up to ~10 mph so as to avoid the inefficient part of the power curve. (Also, the 1.75" high pressure tires and non-sky high bars relative to the seat help.)
Sweet. I'm entirely satisfied with these speeds. If I were to go faster I wouldn't want a bike as the platform since sitting up in the air seems wrong. What I'd want:
- Enclosed steel dropouts for a Crystalyte 5304, OR a ETEK driving a chain or belt
- Built in and fully enclosed battery storage very centrally on the bike with an on-board charger
- Motorcycle grade suspension -- no Ohlins, just off the shelf Honda trials bike stuff...
- Proper motorcycle style lighting
- Much better aerodynamics! Recumbent? Velomobile? Something different.
- Could be registered as a moped
Basically I'm describing a Jackal done properly. No SLA bulk, better aero, much less ugly, less emphasis on off-road use. The Jackal again, for reference:
(* almost all my routes are hilly as the house I'm renting is basically atop one of them and the hardware store, lately my favorite haunt, is atop another)
so how does what i've built compare? i've spent a couple hundred dollars more, but i could have used a costco/walmart bike instead of a "real bike" with the Nexus hub and made up the difference.eGo. http://egovehicles.com/products/north-america/
$1899 for the middle-spec roadworthy one depicted above.
24V brushed DC motor (ETEK?) at a maximum of 200A with a belt drive to the rear wheel. 24V 34Ah of SLA (816 Wh). 130 lbs. claimed 25 mile range for 150 lb rider on flat terrain. limited to 24 or 18 mph depending on mode.
, not to mention not welcomed on bike paths or locked up at bike racks
cool, but the cost... egad. i'd MUCH rather have an Aptera for $30,000 USD.Twike. www.twike.us
20,500 Euros. yes, ridiculously expensive. and yes, those are pedals: this is a human-electric hybrid, like the idea of my e-bike taken to its (il)logical extreme. it also comes in an electric-only version.
"5 kW" AC electric motor. 353V 20Ah LiMn battery pack. top speed of ~53 mph, range of <=90 miles. more if you pedal...
most everything is built in the pac nw! 50 Wh/mile for this vehicle compares to the 24 Wh/mile i use when running my e-bike flat out and ~13 Wh/mile when using it only for assist on hills.BugE. http://www.bugev.net/
sold as a kit: $3400 for the chassis, suspension, fairing and bodywork, canopy, motor and wheel sprockets, wheels/brakes/tires. $325 for the electrical bits (not electric: wiring harness, brake light, switches, etc.). $1300 for the electric kit: 48V DC drive motor, controller, charger, throttle, power meter, DC-DC converter.
note that a battery is not included, and price your own labor accordingly.
if you're not crafty then HarveyEV sells the BugE complete for $9300 with SLAs, no doubt with a hefty markup.
specs for the kit version:
Advanced DC 140-01-4005 motor (24-48V, 3.8 hp). Alltrax 24-48V 300A controller. 48V battery of your choice, based on your range requirements and an estimated energy use of 50 Wh/mile.
range from 40-120 miles depending on the battery. 45 mph at 48V. run it at 60V (with different components to match and a higher price) and you can get 65 mph.
such is the life of the chronically hypomanic... i figure as long as jbp is around, with his spreadsheet of fuel economy values on his Astro van down to 8 decimal places, i'm comparatively normal.Dude. You're obsessed. Get help.
