the real litmus test is that jessica, previously uninterested in all motorcycles, suddenly suggested that she and i both get hybrid MP3s when they come out. sweet, it has teh royal blessing now...
irate2:the alternative personal transportation thread
irate2:
electric F150, as shown at SEMA. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/11/11/video-pml-f-150-w-in-wheel-motors-test-driven/
PML F-150 Hi-Pa. "600 hp, 2000 ft-lb torque" from four wheel motors. 40kWh of lithium. concept but drivable. no word on price.
Unfortunately small is out in the states, 2 seat vehicles are a tough sell and a 450lb tow rating is very nearly useless to most folks who need a truck. A 2wd CRV, Rav4 or maybe an element would probably do the job with a trailer, but they're all bigger than the VW and you'd have to store a trailer.
Also, FWD truck = teh fail.
No. The CRV/Rav4 camp gets about 24mpg. That is inexcusably horrible, and especially for being so tiny. Add a small double rail trailer, and I'll bet it'll be lucky to get 18mpg. My 3l 6 cylinder 2wd Ranger gets 20-21mpg, and gets bumped down to 18-19 with 2 motos in the back... And no trailer, and it goes up hills decently. But that's all still horrible consumption.
Around here, the small bench seat, manual trans, 4 cyl 2wd Toyotas of the early 90's are very, very expensive and hard to get. Everyone wants/needs one. The only 'Yotas under $2k have over 200k-250k miles and are beat to hell. Average selling price is around $4k... and these vehicles are 18 years old.
We need small diesel pickups. I can only hope they arrive soon. Otherwise, I might just have to get me a Jetta TDI and a small trailer. Chick car, here I come.
Someone just showed me this... 1989 Civic CRX HF, 50mpg:
I miss the Nissan minivan my friend had in Spain. 6 speed, turbo diesel, sat 9 people (we usually did 6 people and 6 DH bikes on road trips), and averaged 55-60mpg on my rough estimates. That thing was fast, and handled good too.
***Found it on the Nissan.es site. The Primastar gets 33.6 HWY mpg... I could have sworn that it was a turbo diesel, but I might be wrong. It could even be the wrong van, since his was a 2003 model or something like that. Anyhow, it was amazing how such a low-powered (90 claimed horsies) engine had so much torque, and how much stuff and people it fit inside. Comparing that to Econoline diesel vans that struggle to get 20mpg, and don't handle worth a damn, it seems like we really have our heads up our arses when it comes to practical vehicles.***
Webpage for Primastar:
http://dynamic.nissan.es/home/vehicles/carbuilder/lcv/X83F/engines.html
My pal's van:
I want a pickup truck version of that van, or even something like that.
I miss the Nissan minivan my friend had in Spain. 6 speed, turbo diesel, sat 9 people (we usually did 6 people and 6 DH bikes on road trips), and averaged 55-60mpg on my rough estimates. That thing was fast, and handled good too.
***Found it on the Nissan.es site. The Primastar gets 33.6 HWY mpg... I could have sworn that it was a turbo diesel, but I might be wrong. It could even be the wrong van, since his was a 2003 model or something like that. Anyhow, it was amazing how such a low-powered (90 claimed horsies) engine had so much torque, and how much stuff and people it fit inside. Comparing that to Econoline diesel vans that struggle to get 20mpg, and don't handle worth a damn, it seems like we really have our heads up our arses when it comes to practical vehicles.***
Webpage for Primastar:
http://dynamic.nissan.es/home/vehicles/carbuilder/lcv/X83F/engines.html
My pal's van:
I want a pickup truck version of that van, or even something like that.
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Well, to be fair the CRV is huge, damn near the size of a Jeep Cherokee if I remember right. Still, low 20's for what amounts to a tall wagon is pretty poor.
The reason striped out toyotas are hard to get is that no one bought them in the first place, everyone went for the extended cab 4x4. The reason they're worth so damn much is because they're [angelic choir]toyota trucks[/angelic choir]. I've had two or three notes left on mine asking if I'd be willing to sell it. I don't get it, but everybody seems to want one.
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. Atkinson cycle 2.5-liter 4-cylinder gasoline engine with variable intake cam timing making 155 HP and 136 lb-ft of torque. NiMH battery of unknown capacity. Electric A/C. CVT mated to an electric motor of unknown capacity. LCD dashboard! seat fabric made from 100% post-industrial recycled waste.
the gag is that this one will be able to go up to 47 mph on electric juice alone. and mileage? "Ford is as-yet mum on the subject, but is committed to class-leading performance and promises at least 5 MPG better than the Camry hybrid."
about that dashboard:
price and release date TBD.
33.1mpg average on the display 
I would not have used that picture to pimp a car they hope to have "class leading performance" unless you are going up against the Chevy Tahoe hybrid.
I would not have used that picture to pimp a car they hope to have "class leading performance" unless you are going up against the Chevy Tahoe hybrid.
to be fair 33 mpg is roughly on par with the published figures for the camry hybrid.
jimmydean, you might be particularly interested in this: http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/11-19-2008/0004929143&EDATE=
"[Oregon], under Gov. Kulongoski's leadership, and Nissan are working with PGE towards the creation of the EV charging network. PGE, as part of its plug- in vehicle initiative, is striving to find innovative solutions to Oregon's transportation and energy challenges through the development of a model charging station infrastructure, as well as identifying its infrastructure needs related to vehicle-to-grid technology. Over the past several months, PGE has installed six charging stations- with the capability to charge several dozen vehicles - across the Portland and Salem areas, with more on the way."
jimmydean, you might be particularly interested in this: http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/11-19-2008/0004929143&EDATE=
"[Oregon], under Gov. Kulongoski's leadership, and Nissan are working with PGE towards the creation of the EV charging network. PGE, as part of its plug- in vehicle initiative, is striving to find innovative solutions to Oregon's transportation and energy challenges through the development of a model charging station infrastructure, as well as identifying its infrastructure needs related to vehicle-to-grid technology. Over the past several months, PGE has installed six charging stations- with the capability to charge several dozen vehicles - across the Portland and Salem areas, with more on the way."
You must be really bad at math...
There are EV parking only charging stations at the World Trade Center downtown as well as FlexCar only parking.
It would certainly be cool to add a lot more.
One thing everyone needs to be careful with is the difference between a UK Gallon and a US gallon... 1 gal UK = 1.2 US
Not to mention the gas filler is on the wrong side. Stupid English.
mini-e applications up.
http://www.miniusa.com/#/learn/minimalism/MINIE-m
ny/nj/LA/orange county only. 12 month lease, $850/month (yikes), return the car in precisely 1 year, must have a garage, mini will pay to have the wallbox/charger installed. hmph. i personally wouldn't drop $850/month, and i'm as much of an EV fanboi as you're likely to find.
http://www.miniusa.com/#/learn/minimalism/MINIE-m
ny/nj/LA/orange county only. 12 month lease, $850/month (yikes), return the car in precisely 1 year, must have a garage, mini will pay to have the wallbox/charger installed. hmph. i personally wouldn't drop $850/month, and i'm as much of an EV fanboi as you're likely to find.
Project Better Place continues to march on:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11032113?source=rss
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11032113?source=rss
renault-nissan will provide the vehicles. here's a prototype electric Nissan Rogue
Sounds awesome.... I really hope he pulls it off.
Wish they could get that ball rolling down here in Wellington.
I wonder how small the market is. I also wonder if it might grow soon. I would trade in my current Toyota Tacoma, immediately if Toyota started selling the euro spec 2.4l diesel here in the US. This summer in Germany I drove a 2wd version of this with the old style bed rails (the ones that give you a solid place to hook the ends of tie down ratchets) and I was in love. I think it even had bucket seats in the short cab version. Too bad the American market/government cant wrap their head around the idea that diesels with particle filters are not dirty.
Every year I check, but aside from the Toyota Taco there is no real 4x4 pickup with a 4 banger on the market anymore. Who really needs 200 hp on american highways? Give me a deep deep geared tranny and 4 banger and i will drive happily in the right lane. I would love roll down windows, manual seats & no AC. bring back regulator vents! What happened to sheet metal beds? Sure they rusted eventually, but plastic isnt really the proper material for a pickup bed. Anecdote: I slid a well used shovel into the bed of my Taco and the blade was so sharp it stuck into the bed like a feaking lawn dart!
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Why even bother with a pickup, when you can get an entire Ikea-inspired house trailer for your recumbent? I bet a couple motos will probably fit in here...
Full article: http://austinbikeblog.org/2008/11/23/rdefining-the-family-road-trip/ (click through to the K-Wall original version. It's funnier)
Full article: http://austinbikeblog.org/2008/11/23/rdefining-the-family-road-trip/ (click through to the K-Wall original version. It's funnier)
man that's sweet!'Why even bother with a pickup, when you can get an entire Ikea-inspired house trailer for your recumbent? I bet a couple motos will probably fit in here...
Full article: http://austinbikeblog.org/2008/11/23/rdefining-the-family-road-trip/ (click through to the K-Wall original version. It's funnier)
still reading thru it,but really kewel thread!
Electric Truck Exclusively Options Regenerative Magnetic Shock Absorber Technology from Tufts
a brilliant idea if it actually works. my knowledge of these things is scant enough that i can't tell if it is flux capacitor-style gibberish or something that is reasonable and feasible.
The physics of the power generation is sound (It's similar to how they get power out of ocean waves), though I imagine it might be a little difficult to get a shock that performs well.
ah, a local (Olympia, WA) kook in my own vein:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/390001_plugincars29.html
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2007-miles-zx40s/
$14999. 28 mph. ~50 mile range. no thanks!
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/390001_plugincars29.html
that said, someone shoot me if i ever buy and support a product as subpar as the Miles EV, let alone the horrid Zap Xebra. here's a Miles review for your (dis)pleasure:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2007-miles-zx40s/
$14999. 28 mph. ~50 mile range. no thanks!
It doesn't look great for tesla...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/business/30digi.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/business/30digi.html
that's a crap article.
1) it ignores that the Tesla Roadster is designed to be a flagship, and isn't the end of their (proposed) model range. they propose a $60k sedan, the Model S né Whitestar. they are already providing powertrains for other manufacturers, whose models may well be cheaper if they aren't based of Lotus chassis.
2) the assumption that a plug-in hybrid a la the Chevy Volt would be both cheaper to produce and develop is beyond asinine. Volt cost overruns are driving GM into the ground, let alone a small maker like Tesla. (one could argue that Aptera seems to have figured it out, but that's because Aptera dodged the rules effectively by not building a car: their Typ-1 lineup are motorcycles in the eyes of the law.)
3) the loan that Tesla is applying for is designed to help manufacturers revamp their model lineups to be efficient. say what you will about the price but Tesla's model is nothing but efficient of energy. furthermore, they're actually producing it, unlike the Big 2.8's endless stream of electric and hybrid show cars that never come to fruition.
4) finally, investing in a manufacturing plant in San Jose, CA would bring money and jobs to the area, with the profits going to all-american entrepreneurs. how again is this bad?
whoa! Don't go workin' up a sweat over there... I was merely pointing out that they seem a bit short of cash at the moment. I have a hard time believing that the Fed is going to pony up any cash for them.that's a crap article.
1) it ignores that the Tesla Roadster is designed to be a flagship, and isn't the end of their (proposed) model range. they propose a $60k sedan, the Model S né Whitestar. they are already providing powertrains for other manufacturers, whose models may well be cheaper if they aren't based of Lotus chassis.
2) the assumption that a plug-in hybrid a la the Chevy Volt would be both cheaper to produce and develop is beyond asinine. Volt cost overruns are driving GM into the ground, let alone a small maker like Tesla. (one could argue that Aptera seems to have figured it out, but that's because Aptera dodged the rules effectively by not building a car: their Typ-1 lineup are motorcycles in the eyes of the law.)
3) the loan that Tesla is applying for is designed to help manufacturers revamp their model lineups to be efficient. say what you will about the price but Tesla's model is nothing but efficient of energy. furthermore, they're actually producing it, unlike the Big 2.8's endless stream of electric and hybrid show cars that never come to fruition.
4) finally, investing in a manufacturing plant in San Jose, CA would bring money and jobs to the area, with the profits going to all-american entrepreneurs. how again is this bad?
but my point is that the loan program, although no doubt tailored for the Big 2.8 by their lobbyists, should be applicable to them on paper.
other fun facts: they just raised $40 million more in financing. their powertrain business is profitable currently, and the list of companies using their powertrain hasn't been confirmed yet but is believed to include BMW for the mini-E.
i don't think they're quite on their deathbed -- they're selling Roadsters (with a waiting list still miles long!), they're selling powertrains and expertise, and they have financing.
something good might come out of a big 3 bailout, no matter how distasteful and wrong that may be:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_bi_ge/autos_congress
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_bi_ge/autos_congress
an electric Transit Connect would be kind of fun in a Element/xB/box on wheels kind of way:
With those companies I'll believe it when I see it.......
I'd be OK with Tesla getting gov't funds provided they are subjected to the same criteria as the big 3. Just because they're trying (only 50 cars produced and a demonstrated inability to meet demand doesn't = success.....) to make EV cars doesn't qualify them for free money imo.
Product specifics aside, they are just another business that underestimated the difficulty of bringing a product to market. They are a struggling start-up company; no more, no less.
Product specifics aside, they are just another business that underestimated the difficulty of bringing a product to market. They are a struggling start-up company; no more, no less.
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my parents have a 2004 Prius so i've logged quite a few miles in it. i average between 44-46 mpg typically and rarely if ever dip below that figure. my personal best mpg over a non-negligible distance is 56 mpg in town.
with this in mind i had the chance to drive a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid for about 45 miles tonight via Zipcar (who provided me with a $25 credit, making the $7/hr rental to see the girl up north a no-brainer).
my Civic Hybrid impressions:
- for those who are attuned to hybrids and such the Civic Hybrid is easy to tell apart from the standard Civic
- mileage is not as good as the Prius. around town i got 23 mpg (!), and with 80% highway miles after that i ended up averaging 42.9 overall. this is with a light foot, remember!
- sightlines are not as good as the Prius, especially in the A pillar and over the driver's shoulder in the B pillar when head checking.
- ergonomics are good
- steering feel is superior to that of the Prius, and body motions are well damped
overall i didn't mind it but still prefer the Prius for its mileage, uncontested advantage in interior room and storage space, and outwards visibility. that they're the same price on the market makes it a no-brainer.
incidentally the production version of the Honda Insight was revealed today. it'll use the same IMA system as in the Civic Hybrid i drove tonight but should eke out slightly better mileage via improved aerodynamics and a (lengthened, widened) Fit-based platform. it's reputed to start at $18,000, undercutting the Prius by $4k. it will be interesting to see how this battle plays out.
with this in mind i had the chance to drive a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid for about 45 miles tonight via Zipcar (who provided me with a $25 credit, making the $7/hr rental to see the girl up north a no-brainer).
my Civic Hybrid impressions:
- for those who are attuned to hybrids and such the Civic Hybrid is easy to tell apart from the standard Civic
- mileage is not as good as the Prius. around town i got 23 mpg (!), and with 80% highway miles after that i ended up averaging 42.9 overall. this is with a light foot, remember!
- sightlines are not as good as the Prius, especially in the A pillar and over the driver's shoulder in the B pillar when head checking.
- ergonomics are good
- steering feel is superior to that of the Prius, and body motions are well damped
overall i didn't mind it but still prefer the Prius for its mileage, uncontested advantage in interior room and storage space, and outwards visibility. that they're the same price on the market makes it a no-brainer.
incidentally the production version of the Honda Insight was revealed today. it'll use the same IMA system as in the Civic Hybrid i drove tonight but should eke out slightly better mileage via improved aerodynamics and a (lengthened, widened) Fit-based platform. it's reputed to start at $18,000, undercutting the Prius by $4k. it will be interesting to see how this battle plays out.
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Awesome on the Hondas! I drive a 2003 (I think... It's the 1st generation body) Prius a lot. Great car! According to the on-board computer, I'll get 42 MPG avg when I drive with a lead foot. Unfortunately, the electric steering motor is going bad, and it'll need to get replaced in a few thousand miles.
I'm wondering what kind of mileage a Prius would get while towing a single-rail motorcycle trailer... Seems like a TDI would be better suited for towing.
I'm wondering what kind of mileage a Prius would get while towing a single-rail motorcycle trailer... Seems like a TDI would be better suited for towing.
I finally pulled the trigger on the Corolla S for the wife. I got a killer deal on a 2003 with 62k miles and 48k warranty. A friend of ours says she averages 38mpg in hers despite fueleconomy.gov figures of 31mpg average.
If my wife can average 35mpg, I'll be stoked. It's much more sporty than the Fit and it was about $8k less while still getting the same mileage.
If my wife can average 35mpg, I'll be stoked. It's much more sporty than the Fit and it was about $8k less while still getting the same mileage.
good call on the corolla. jessica has a 2001 Corolla 5-spd and she averages 36-37 mpg in combined driving, with 40 and even 45 mpg seen over full tanks when there's lots of highway involved. the lowest she's seen is 32 in the city.
Last week was the last straw. She got a whopping 22mpg last tank in the Malibu, I was pissed. She only drives about 100 miles a week to and from school, but to fill up as much as she does is ridiculous. If we end up with the new house, it will cut to about 80 miles a week (or even less).
Not only is the Corolla S funner to drive, but twice the mileage will be nice. She picks it up on Saturday.