[Toshi]

sorry for the photo of the random old white dude

That guy is exactly the image that jumped to mind when I first saw the MP3, right down to the sandals and socks. The 500 is borderline cool (as is the tech) but they still remind me of the Rascal scooters favored by the morbidly obese.

inspired by this i took an unscientific poll of MP3 owners, with results compared to the same forum's Vespa/non-MP3 scooter results:

vs.

in other news, Aptera says that they have completed their first pre-production Aptera 2e. the 2e is the revised version with front wheel drive, physical side mirrors. they claim that they'll start shipping in california in October 2009 for "$25-$45k". i'll believe it when i see it.

note what looks like driveshafts up front on the 2e preproduction model:

compare to the mirrorless, driveshaft-less Typ-1e:

 

[Toshi]

Sound Scooters' lineup of taiwanese- and chinese-sourced electric scooters:

eMoto Classic (also available in a reskinned "metro" version). $2600. 48V 40Ah of lead-acid ("lead silicon"). "2000W" hub motor. claimed 25-35 miles, 30 mph top speed. 308 lbs.

EVT 168 (left) and 4000e (right).

prices depend on battery choice:
$2999 for either model with a 48V 50Ah lead-acid pack
$4199 for either model with a 48V 30Ah lithium-ion pack
$4799 for the 4000e with a 48V 40Ah lithium-ion pack

specs are identical for all save for weight: 30 mph claimed speed, "1500W" hub motor, 30-40 mile claimed range. the lead-acid version weighs 282 lbs, the 30Ah lithium version weighs 198 lbs, and the 40 Ah lithium version doesn't have accurate specs up.

finally, an ugly beast, a delta-configuration electric scooter:

$4199. 48V 50Ah of lead (or lithium, presumably for $6k or so, not listed) 30 mph claimed speed. 398 lbs. hideous! the one interesting bit is that it has two "1500W" rear hub motors...

 

[Toshi]

i want. but cannot have (japan only, 4000 to be produced):

Honda Monkey. 50cc 4-stroke with PGM-FI fuel injection and a modern catalytic converter. 3.4 hp. 252 mpg at a constant 18.6mph.

 

[Toshi]

today i wasn't too sleepy post-call so i journeyed to Soundspeed Scooters in Fremont to test rode a bunch of machinery and shoot the breeze with like-minded people. the staff and clientele at the shop are very similar to those of the ski shop in the neighborhood, evo, only they lace their conversations with "watts" and "amps". think ironic t-shirts, hats, and jeans.



i rode the following:

Ultra Motor Europa
Ultra Motor A2B
EVT 4000e - lead-acid version as they don't have 4000e lithium demo models at the moment

the Europa has a geared Heinzmann hub at 36V. while it had some slick features, like a lockable battery cabinet on the downtube and a built in tab for the Heinzmann's torque arm it disappointed for several reasons:

- slow. very slow.
- whine from the geared hub motor
- really upright riding position and non-aggressive geometry
- did i mention slow? laggy throttle response, poor hill climbing ability (you'd think this would be good with a geared motor but it wasn't), and little top end

the A2B was much more entertaining. again, it seems very well put together, with the slick battery-in-downtube setup, a built-in torque arm, and provisions for an extra battery. my thoughts:

- it felt like a downhill bike with 20" wheels, very fun. although its cockpit was similarly high it had a totally different feel, and i was slaloming things, jumping off curbs, and trying futilely to bunnyhop it. (its rear hub motor weighs down the rear sufficiently that i couldn't loft it.)
- in a side to side race with my bike it completely smoked mine off the line, with much better torque from the 20" hub motor compared to mine in a 26" wheel. whereas it peters out at 20 mph however mine starts to come into its own around 18 mph and pulls until 24-26 mph. so it was like a squat bulldog charging off the line compared to my long-legged beast.
- the suspension felt pretty decent. rear end was undersprung and i bottomed it a few times but that's easily addressable.
- all in all a grin-inducing machine. i approve.

the EVT 4000e is a full-fledged scooter, albeit one that doesn't require a motorcycle license. its motor is limited to 1500W although it's supposedly capable of 3000W with overvolting or a different controller. the underseat compartment is supposed to be a good place to stash such an extra overvolting battery...

- top speed on the flat was 33-34 mph
- construction felt reasonably sturdy but cheap
- hill climbing and acceleration capability was marginal: i repeatedly ran into the controller's cutout warning when "flooring it" from low speeds and had to slow to ~15 mph to climb a 8% grade. this isn't really acceptable in my mind, but is supposed to be much better with the lithium versions (which have a higher C rating from the batteries besides being 100 lbs lighter).

 

[CBJ]

The whole idea about doing it as a bike seems much better. Why make it into a bulky scooter and also still have the ability to pedal?

 

[Toshi]

The whole idea about doing it as a bike seems much better. Why make it into a bulky scooter and also still have the ability to pedal?

commercially available electric bicycles are limited to 20 mph and 500W by law. that's kind of lame. similarly, electric scooters that don't require a motorcycle license or endorsement are limited technically to 30 mph, i believe. that's also kind of lame.

on the other hand, building your own (nod to buildyourown for his invaluable help building mine!) has its own set of downfalls even though one isn't necessarily forced to abide by the above rules...

 

[Toshi]

one of the many travesties of gwb's administration was their direction of the EPA administrator, stephen johnson, to deny the California Air Resources Board a waiver. this waiver, which had been granted for the previous ~40 years without exception, is to allow CARB to enforce their own stricter standards for greenhouse gas and smog forming pollutant emissions for cars and trucks sold in california.

this is why many cars have come in "49-state" plus california versions, with the cali-bound models having lower emissions. 49-state is actually a misnomer, however, as 14 other states have joined CARB in enforcing their more rigorous standards and 4 others plan to follow suit. what are these 14 + 4 states? Massachusetts, New York, Arizona, Connecticut, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and Pennsylvania, with Arizona, Colorado, Florida and Utah the ones that plan to adopt the standards. these states collectively represent about half of the automobile market in the united states.

anyway, back to the story: mr. johnson denied CARB's waiver despite the advice from his scientific advisory panel to grant it. why did he deny it then? essentially, he relied on a bogus argument that CO2 is a global gas, and since the adoption of CARB standards by the aforementioned 15 states would "only" reduce global greenhouse gas output by 0.6%, and because of this direction on the issue had to come centrally from the federal govt through the Corporate Average Fuel Economy program, CAFE. he also made an additional, undocumented argument that california's rules would actually result in a lower fleet fuel economy standard than CAFE.

CARB had none of this, issued a thorough rebuttal, and Gov Schwarzenegger had the state sue the federal govt. here are a few figures from their (linked above) rebuttal:

in conclusion, the bush administration and the EPA under its direction were bought off by the automakers.

however, the New York Times reported today that Obama is set to announce tomorrow that the EPA's denial of CARB's waiver will be overturned. in other words, CARB will able to enforce its more stringent standards.

WASHINGTON — President Obama will direct federal regulators on Monday to move swiftly on an application by California and 13 other states to set strict automobile emission and fuel efficiency standards, two administration officials said Sunday evening.

this is good news for those following this thread, as these standards will spur the painfully slow process of bringing cleaner, more efficient cars and truck to market. (it is of note that the General Motors EV1, the Toyota RAV4-EV, the Ford Ranger EV, and basically any major-company EV you can think of came to existence solely because of california's 1990s mandate that companies sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles. the companies made them grudgingly, lobbying strenuously against the regulation until it was overturned, then immediately dropped their programs. that's corporate strategy and foresight for ya.)

 

[Toshi]

the 2008 commuter bike design contest winner

http://bicycledesign.blogspot.com/2009/01/finalists-in-commuter-bike-design.html
http://bicycledesign.blogspot.com/2009/01/we-have-winner.html

 

[Toshi]

Vectrix, mentioned in post #10 of this thread, is introducing two new models.

details of the Vectrix VX-1e and VX-2 have emerged, and they aren't pretty:

VX-1: $11k. NiMH batteries and regenerative braking. 62 mph. 30-55 mile range.
VX-1e: $8.5k. lead-acid batteries, no regnerative braking. same platform otherwise as the VX-1. slower and less capable but by how much?
VX-2. $5.2k. chinese-sourced, not a Vectrix design. lead-acid. 30 mph, "40-50 mile range".

my take is that $11k for the VX-1 is insane for a 30 mile range at speed, and that the pricing on the lead-acid scooters is doubly insane. recall again from 5 posts back in this very thread that you can buy a similarly-taiwanese-imported lead-acid scooter with specs just about on par with those of the VX-2 for $3k. even at $3k i think it's less than a compelling deal...

 

[RUFUS]

i want. but cannot have (japan only, 4000 to be produced):

Honda Monkey. 50cc 4-stroke with PGM-FI fuel injection and a modern catalytic converter. 3.4 hp. 252 mpg at a constant 18.6mph.

Ahhh, the brother of the ruckus. I had a ruckus last summer and loved it but for some STUPID reason I sold it.
The ruckus was 50cc and could go 40mph, 90-110MPG with a 1 3/4 tank.

 

[Toshi]

not that i actually endorse the thing, having never ridden it and read at least one owner's report on advrider that 20 miles range is a stretch, but here's a video of the Zero X that shows that it's capable of some impressive feats in the right rider's hands:

 

[Toshi]

worried about peak lithium? worry not. (click on the image)

 

[stevew]

a diesel roadster that gets 42mpg.

 

[dan-o]

a diesel roadster that gets 42mpg.

Very cool. If my wifes 94 mercedes ever dies a TDi in some form will replace it. The 98 passat wagon tdi we owned in europe was a gem.

 

[Toshi]

mindset, a car by Murat Günak, an ex-VW design chief.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=de|en&u=http://www.autobild.de/artikel/schriebers-stromkasten-teil-25_833740.html

50,000 euros. running prototype at this point. supposedly out (in europe) in 2010. electric motor with lithium-ion batteries good for 180 km, with a single-cylinder gas engine as a range extender up to 800 km a la the Chevy Volt. charging time of 6h.

 

[Toshi]

more Aptera news:

1. a gasoline-engined Aptera 2g may be forthcoming. (as opposed to the electric 2e and range-extended EV 2h versions) http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/11/25/is-aptera-considering-a-gasoline-only-2g-model/

2. this is what it looks like next to a Versa, and without its wheelskirts...

many more photos of the actual beast at ABG's gallery: http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/aptera-2e-pantless-in-the-wild/

 

[Toshi]

two Piaggio (as in the parent company of Moto Guzzi, Vespa, Aprilla, etc.) updates:

1) new-to-me photos of the long-rumored but possibly never released Piaggio MP3 Hybrid's drivetrain:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=24660&id=14012273262 (facebook album link, one photo rehosted below)



in case that photo doesn't make sense that whole unit lives to the left of the rear wheel on the swingarm, with the left pointing forward. the gasoline motor is in the front/left part of that photo. yes, scooters have a ton of unsprung weight thanks to their design. that cutaway bit (seen better in a few other shots in the gallery) is an electric motor's stator with magnets and windings visible. sexy: industrial/electric porn.

2) there are unsubstantiated rumors on modernvespa.com that indicate that Vespa is working on a full-electric scoot. (again, Vespa is a sub-brand of Piaggio who has been pimping the above Hybrid MP3 on the auto show circuit).

 

[Toshi]

the Honda Fit Sport won this month's subcompact comparison in Consumer Reports. (link via autoblog, and i can [eventually] obtain the CR article itself if anyone is interested)

The folks over at Consumer Reports have ranked the Honda Fit Sport top among tested subcompact cars in their March 2009 issue. "We found the new Fit the most practical and enjoyable car in this month's group," says Consumers Union. The world's largest independent consumer product testing organization, who don't claim to be enthusiasts, ran the small Honda against the Suzuki SX4, Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, and Chevrolet Aveo.

Compared to the rest of the group, the Honda Fit Sport 5-speed was the quickest to 60 miles-per-hour (an asphalt-melting 9.2 seconds) and sipped the least amount of fuel during testing (a not too shabby 33 miles-per-gallon overall). The CU testers were pleased with the Honda's versatile and flexible interior, but not with its dismal headlights. Of the five, only the Fit and SX4 were recommended. The Yaris and Aveo scored too low in testing to make the cut, and the Renault-based Versa sedan has proven too unreliable. Better luck next year, guys. Official press release after the jump.

 

[berkshire_rider]

mindset, a car by Murat Günak, an ex-VW design chief.

50,000 euros. running prototype at this point. supposedly out (in europe) in 2010. electric motor with lithium-ion batteries good for 180 km, with a single-cylinder gas engine as a range extender up to 800 km a la the Chevy Volt. charging time of 6h.

What a strange looking car. It looks like they welded 3/4 of a Suburau Tribeca to a an old CRX body. I wonder if the designers of all these new electric/battery powered cars try to make such fugly designs on purpose.

 

[Toshi]

i'd say the Aptera isn't fugly. it looks 100% functional, like an airplane for the roads.

on that topic, in fact, official Aptera 2e specs were released today at the Technology, Entertainment, Design conference in cali.



Aptera 2e

173" length on a 111" wheelbase
91" width with a 80.5" front track, with the rear clearly being 0"
0.15 Cd
5" ground clearance
1500 lb curb weight
14" steel wheels with 165/65R14 tires

60 ft.-lb. of torque from its electric motor running through a 10:1 gearbox
"10-13 kWh" LiFePO4 battery pack (i don't know why it's a range)
8 hr charge time at 110V 15A (ie 16.5 kWh, so either the charger is inefficient, this is a rough number, or "15A" fuses actually are 12A)
nominal battery voltage of 336V
~100 mile range per full charge

4 yr/50k basic + powertrain warranty with roadside assistance
optional DVD nav , standard stereo as well as power windows and locks
recycled materials used for the interior

Cd comparisons:
0.15 Aptera 2e
0.195 General Motors EV1
0.26 2004-2009 Toyota Prius
0.29 2001-2003 Toyota Prius
0.57 Hummer H2

 

[narlus]

does it come w/ these stickers?

 

[Toshi]

does it come w/ these stickers?

i think they'd be nigh invisible on the steeply raked back windshield...

 

[Toshi]

NYTimes: Downturn Forces Transit Cuts Even as Ridership Grows

Transit systems across the country are raising fares and cutting service even after attracting record numbers of riders last year, when many drivers fled $4-a-gallon gas prices and stop-and-go traffic for seats on buses and trains.

Their problem is that fare-box revenue accounts for only a fifth to a half of the operating revenue of most transit systems — and the sputtering economy has eroded the state and local tax collections that the systems depend on to keep running. Many transit systems are cutting service even as demand is up.

“We’ve termed it the ‘transit paradox,’ ” said Clarence W. Marsella, the general manager of Denver’s transit system, which is raising fares and cutting service to make up for the steep drop in local sales tax.

The billions of dollars that Congress plans to spend on mass transit as part of the stimulus bill will also do little to help these systems with their current problems. That is because the new federal money — $12 billion was included in the version passed last week by the House of Representatives, while the Senate originally proposed less — is devoted to big capital projects, like buying train cars and buses and building or repairing tracks and stations. Money that some lawmakers had proposed to help transit systems pay their operating costs, and avoid layoffs and service cuts, was not included in the most current version.

[...]

William W. Millar, president of the American Public Transportation Association, an industry group, wrote to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi last month urging her to include money for operating costs in the stimulus bill.

“Public transportation ridership is surging across the country,” he wrote, “increasing 6.5 percent in the third quarter of 2008 — the largest quarterly increase in the past 25 years, but transit systems are cutting service, increasing fares and laying off employees as a result of increased transit fuel costs in the past year and declining state and local revenue sources that support transit.”

So even as the federal government plans to buy new train cars and buses for some transit systems, places like St. Louis find themselves without enough money to pay the bus drivers and light-rail train operators that they have now.

“I have 165 buses that I’m going to gave to put in mothballs,” said Ray Friem, the chief operating officer at Metro, the St. Louis system. “There’s a ton of federal money tied up in those assets.”

near 50% cuts in bus service in St. Louis, MO. 900 people laid off at the Washington, DC subway due to a $176 million budget deficit. NYC's MTA is running a $1.2 BILLION dollar deficit. etc.

the St. Louis case is due to local voters rejecting a sales tax increase to fund public transit. at least in seattle i (and other public transit users) count myself lucky: i and my fellow voters approved proposition 1, which will fund a bunch of new mass transit projects and service:
- light rail expansion east to redmond (think microsoft -- there's also a new microsoft-centric bus service), north to the university of washington, and south to federal way
- increases in express bus service: 17% across the board, up to 30% on some routes
- a 65% increase in commuter rail service between Seattle, Tacoma and points in-between

of course, many of these projects will not be complete for many a year. but maybe they'll be in place and having a positive effect when (if) i come back to the area after finishing up residency, in 2013, and fellowship, in 2014.

 

[stevew]

 

[metalhead119042]

My alternate transportation

Top speeds have reached 35 or so mph (with the ability to go faster!), can take 90 degree street corners at 25. No smoke pollution from drifting either

 

[sam_little]

Got this from signing up for Zero Motorcycles' mailing list some time back. No QA/QC performed on this.

Dear Zero Motorcycles Newsletter Subscriber,

Do you want to receive a 10% tax credit on your next electric motorcycle purchase?

Read on.

The stimulus package being put together right now in Washington DC includes major tax credits for plug-in cars, but none for electric motorcycles. Detroit doesn’t want any of this money going to electric motorcycles and are lobbying for cars only.

However, there are motorcycle enthusiasts in the Congress who support the motorcycle industry. We have a good chance to get a credit for electric motorcycles, but we need your help.

We will do most of the work. Please just take a quick moment to help the environment and yourself by clicking the link below. Send a strong message to your representatives in Congress and the President by telling them why you think electric motorcycles are as important as electric cars.

http://www.pluginamerica.org/stimulus-2-3wheel

Thanks for your help,

Gene

Gene Banman
CEO, Zero Motorcycles, Inc
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com
888-RUN-ZERO (888-786-9376)

 

[jimmydean]

Damn.

Just unveiled at the TED2009 conference, the Mission One from Mission Motors, a hi-tech California startup company, building what is about to be the world’s fastest production electric motorcycle. How fast? 150 mph. Range? 150 miles. Torque? 100 foot pounds, instantly available whether you’re standing still or cruising at 60 mph, no gears, just roll it on … I think the game just changed.

<edit>

http://www.ridemission.com

 

[DaveW]

Looks pretty good at face value.... No dates or prices as yet though?

 

[jimmydean]

Looks pretty good at face value.... No dates or prices as yet though?

First production run is limited to 500 (I think) at something like $65k.

 

[sam_little]

Trading our reliance on foreign oil for foreign lithium.

Interesting read. I'm not knowledgeable about the useful life of a lithium ion battery. I imagine that anything is better than reliance on a foreign commodity that has a single-use lifespan, but it is interesting to consider that, regardless of our path forward, we're still going to be beholden to another country's measured extraction of a finite resource.

 

[Toshi]

Trading our reliance on foreign oil for foreign lithium.

Interesting read. I'm not knowledgeable about the useful life of a lithium ion battery. I imagine that anything is better than reliance on a foreign commodity that has a single-use lifespan, but it is interesting to consider that, regardless of our path forward, we're still going to be beholden to another country's measured extraction of a finite resource.

good things to think about but not a big concern: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/28/got-lithium-lots/

Got lithium? Lots

When companies need to know about future market conditions for various commodities, they hire a firm with the expertise to evaluate the situation and report back. For instance, as Mitsubishi was mulling the possible future of electric cars equipped with lithium ion batteries, they hired TRU Group to do an analysis on future battery options. Usually, ordinary folks don't get to see the results of this kind of work, but in the case here, we can. In a rare move, Mitsubishi has allowed their consultants to release some of the findings about the global markets for lithium through to 2020 and that's just what they did at the IM Lithium Supply & Markets Conference Santiago 2009.

The results are comforting to those worried about a sudden upsurge in the production of electric cars using lithium ion batteries, especially over the next few years. Because of the sudden recession, there is actually an oversupply of the mineral right now and this should continue until about 2013. It doesn't seem as though there will be a "peak lithium" after that either. Although brine deposits, like those in Bolivia and China, may offer the easiest and cheapest supplies to extract, a moderate price rise would support mining here in America, where we appear to have quite a bit.

[Source: TRU Group]

 

[Toshi]

Looks pretty good at face value.... No dates or prices as yet though?

it's a CGI rendering. doesn't exist. i'll believe it if and only if i see it for sale in a commercial dealer with support, etc.

 

[Toshi]

i'd say the Aptera isn't fugly. it looks 100% functional, like an airplane for the roads.

on that topic, in fact, official Aptera 2e specs were released today at the Technology, Entertainment, Design conference in cali.

first "official" passenger-seat test drive in a 4th gen prototype of the Aptera 2e.

http://vimeo.com/3084547

video highly worth watching. Aptera really gets it. just to name a few things i saw in that video:

- Google Maps integration with an overlay of what your effective range is at the moment overlaid on the map in realtime for both one-way and round-trip journeys
- indicators showing where electric charging stations are on the map
- mobile internet with integration with Google Maps, Calendar, etc.
- utilization of this mobile internet to tell the charger back home when and on what settings to charge the car, e.g. off-peak charge, smart charge, etc.
- three power settings, probably amp limits in the controller, econ/normal/power, with 0-60 mph in about 10 sec

i want.

 

[Toshi]

80 Buses in Oslo Will Be Powered by Raw Sewage

This might be the most disgusting use of green technology I've ever seen, but yes, Norweigan fecal matter will keep their Buses up and running.

According to Worldchanging, the City of Oslo will convert the sewage to biomethane, then get that methane working as bus fuel. Two sewage plants in Oslo will be adapted to support the infrastructure and the 80 buses will require minor modifications.

The Oslo Sewage Bus trial is expected to begin in September, and if successful, all 400 Oslo buses will be converted.Putting aside initial costs, the biomethane is expected to be about &#8364;0.40 cheaper per litre, and each bus will save about 40 tons of carbon dioxide every year.

 

[jimmydean]

it's a CGI rendering. doesn't exist. i'll believe it if and only if i see it for sale in a commercial dealer with support, etc.

That's actually the real deal, not a rendering. But it is still pre-prod. I'm a sucker for anything built with Ohlins suspension out of the box.

To prove the performance of their electric motorcycle, Mission Motors will compete in the TTXGP on June 12, the first "zero-emissions motorcycle race on the Isle of Mann."

They call it the Tesla of motorcycles.

 

[sam_little]

good things to think about but not a big concern

Thanks for that. However, the supply curve just shows that supply will out pace demand through 2020. 2020 isn't very far away, but perhaps the trend continues. Regardless, current O&G supply exceeds demand, and it is OPEC manipulation of production that keeps us in check, no? The argument regarding US availability, at a slightly higher cost, could also be applied to the extractable O&G resources we have here. So, I wonder if the more limited resources we have stateside will actually give us the ability to impact availability and, therefore, battery pricing.

One person's comment on the article you linked suggested that lithium may have high recoverability can be recycled. Guess that is good news. Seems like a good opportunity for an expanded US market, although I imagine environmental regs will push it offshore.

I wonder why the contracted report only considered an 18 year horizon. Perhaps the automaker believes a new, best alternative will become viable in that time.

Thanks for keeping this thread running. Good stuff.

 

[jimmydean]

80 Buses in Oslo Will Be Powered by Raw Sewage

All aboard the sh!t bus! That's awesome.

 

[DaveW]

All aboard the sh!t bus! That's awesome.

heh came accross these buses in Germany..... wonder if they run on the same fuel?

 

[Toshi]

Ford Transit Connect EV by Smith Electric Vehicles, aka the Ampere. i love their EV names: Newton for the class 5-7 commercial truck, Edison for the 15-passenger van/cargo van/box van size vehicle, and Ampere for the Transit Connect minivan flavor.

http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/

price unknown although they claim a 40% reduction in lifetime cost as compared to a diesel model. 50 kW motor, 24 kWh of LiFePO4, curb weight of 1520 kg, payload of 1764 lbs. top speed of 70 mph, range claimed at 100 miles. already out in UK in both gasoline (Ford Transit Connect) and electric (Smith Ampere) forms. rumored to be brought to the US, at least for commercial customers. i'd consider an EV Transit Connect at the right price -- it'd make a great, practical vehicle if not as sexy as an Aptera.

 

[DaveW]

Man they sure laid into that wagon with an ugly stick beating!