Looks good, but I would like to see that interior shot done with the doors closed to see what that looks like. 
the alternative personal transportation thread
I would rock that, but I prefer Ohlins to the WP setup. I'f I'm spending that kind of dough, I aint half steppin'.
I got some new pics of my scoot... its pretty nice i invested about 1400 bucks into it. Where do you guys think i can pour some old gas that i accidentally kept over the winter. I was thinking about just going in the woods and dumping it out i have about 2 gallons or so. anyways without further a due, here is a pic or 2.
Oh and thanks for the bad rep from the previous post!
Oh and thanks for the bad rep from the previous post!
the apteras numbers are very impressive. After seeing those shots I wonder what visibility is like.
I think you are missing the point of this thread. The idea of dumping bad gas in the woods is sort of the topper.
^^ So much awesome, too bad I can only sell one kidney.
http://jalopnik.com/5173389/terrafugia-flying-car-makes-first-flight
30 mpg and 65 mph on the ground. 450 mile range at 115 mph in the air. 30 second transition from roadable to flyable state. $194k.
cash for clunkers revived:
Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save (CARS) Act via ABG
Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save (CARS) Act via ABG
i find the "built in the united states" idea independent of nominal manufacturer interesting.
Interesting Der Spiegel story on an Indian electric car that's been in production since June last year.
The Reva is the world's most successful electric vehicle. It's manufactured on the outskirts of Bangalore, in southern India
The Reva is the world's most successful electric vehicle. It's manufactured on the outskirts of Bangalore, in southern India
interesting indeed. highlights the gulf between neighborhood electric vehicles (NEVs), restricted to 25 mph by law, and full-blown cars such as the Tesla Roadster. the Aptera tries to circumvent the law by going the three wheeled route but, as it has found out, financing becomes more difficult since it's not a "car."
Better Place has been mentioned many times in this thread. www.betterplace.com . here's a mainstream media video, with David Pogue, that gives an overview of the program. what's more, the opening scene reveals that the Nissan/Renault prototypes running about use AC Propulsion drivetrains, just like the eBox that Tom Hanks and company love so much.
estimated price for the sedan and SUV are $20k + the mileage plan?it's pay as you go, like a cell phone?but for high users like taxi drivers who commit to a high-mileage plan the price of the car can drop to $0.
meanwhile, the obama administration continues to soldier on forward, platform agnostic. in his california visit obama announced that the recently passed stimulus package has $2.4 billion allocated to electric vehicles.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/03/19/Electric/
key points:President Obama said:
VW GX3, very cool.
the Aptera's inspiration was the similarly three wheeled but enclosed, carbon fiber, and tandem-seated VW "1 liter car". i think the 1 liter car and the GX3 have an equal chance of seeing production, that is, none. 
what does have a chance of production is an electric car from nissan-renault. they're one of the manufacturers who will be supplying cars for project better place, and also plan to sell EVs on their own.
Electric car from Nissan will be sold here in '10
what does have a chance of production is an electric car from nissan-renault. they're one of the manufacturers who will be supplying cars for project better place, and also plan to sell EVs on their own.
Electric car from Nissan will be sold here in '10
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That may be, but the GX3 is classified as a bike, so you can solo in the HOV lane. The price tag was listed as $17k, not bad for a side by side. There was a show this morning on Current showcasing some of the cars at the Sexy Green Car show. There were some hot prospects there.the Aptera's inspiration was the similarly three wheeled but enclosed, carbon fiber, and tandem-seated VW "1 liter car". i think the 1 liter car and the GX3 have an equal chance of seeing production, that is, none.
all three wheelers are classified as bikes whether roofed or unroofed, including the Aptera as well as the vaporware Green Vehicles Triac and Zap Alias.
here's an article outlining a change that will directly affect conventional gasoline vehicles in the upcoming years:
Time: EPA Calls CO2 a Danger At Last
By BRYAN WALSH Monday, Mar. 23, 2009
It's been two years since the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change laid out the definitive case that human beings were causing global warming, and two decades since NASA scientist James Hansen first told Congress of the threat of rising CO2 emissions. So, why has it taken this long for the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to announce that greenhouse gases endanger human health? Change can be slow in Washington.
On March 20 the EPA sent what is called an "endangerment finding" to the White House, a proposal that means the agency found that there is a scientific case that man-made global warming poses a threat to human welfare. (Reporters found out about the EPA decision the following Monday, after it was posted on a government website.) The finding is a response to an April 2007 Supreme Court decision ordering the EPA to figure out how CO2 from cars should be regulated under the Clean Air Act.
Scientific staff in the George W. Bushera EPA found that CO2 is a pollutant, but then administrator Stephen Johnson rejected the recommendation and delayed the process of regulating it, part of the Bush Administration's general obstructionism on climate change. When Lisa Jackson took over the EPA under the new President, however, she told Congress that one of her first acts would be to reevaluate her predecessor's decision, and she didn't drag her feet. "It's an exercise in leadership that takes the first step in regulating CO2 emissions from automobiles," says John Walke, the clean air director for the Natural Resources Defense Council.
By concluding that greenhouse gases pose a threat to human welfare, the EPA's finding could lay the groundwork for nationwide regulation of CO2 emissions just as the EPA is require to regulate pollutants like smog-causing sulfur dioxide. But regulating CO2 will be immensely more complicated the U.S. emitted over 6 billion metric tons of CO2 in 2007 from countless sources and business groups have raised the specter of a meddlesome EPA using greenhouse gases as an excuse to regulate projects large and small.
While the EPA has so far been silent about how it might actually regulate CO2 and the endangerment finding is only an early step in a process that could take a year or longer environmentalists say it's difficult to imagine that the agency would attempt to control every possible source of greenhouse gas emissions. "People running the EPA have common sense," says Frank O'Donnell, head of the environmental group Clean Air Watch. "They're going to focus the efforts on the biggest sources" like the auto industry and the utility sector.
Of course, if the Obama Administration achieves its stated goal of passing carbon cap and trade legislation, EPA regulations might be superseded and even deep greens generally prefer Congressional action to federal fiat. But with cap and trade looking like it may become a victim of the White House's need to prioritize amidst a sea of crises, the EPA's actions could provide a much-needed nudge to Congress. "This is a strong message," says O'Donnell. "Congress either has to face the reality that something has to be done, or the Obama Administration will just do it itself." What's one more item on the world's longest Presidential to-do list?
1) impressed by the 40-61 mpg that some journalists logged in a 2010 Insight? well how about 62-94 mpg, with most clustered around 65-75 mpg, in the 2010 Prius?
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/25/first-drive-2010-toyota-prius-puts-up-big-numbers/
2) rotary engines can run on hydrogen, and Mazda has showed off their RX-8 RE hydrogen show cars multiple times. this gave me little solace when dealing with 23 mpg on premium with my gasoline RX-8. however, they have now demonstrated something both practical and with real promise, assuming hydrogen fuel stations are ever a widespread reality:
mazda premacy (aka mazda5) hydrogen RE hybrid concept
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/25/mazdas-first-premacy-hydrogen-re-hybrid-leases-start-in-japan/
series hybrid with both a hydrogen rotary, a lithium ion pack, and an electric motor! (and gas fallback capability!)
woon:
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090324/CARNEWS/903249988
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/25/first-drive-2010-toyota-prius-puts-up-big-numbers/
2) rotary engines can run on hydrogen, and Mazda has showed off their RX-8 RE hydrogen show cars multiple times. this gave me little solace when dealing with 23 mpg on premium with my gasoline RX-8. however, they have now demonstrated something both practical and with real promise, assuming hydrogen fuel stations are ever a widespread reality:
mazda premacy (aka mazda5) hydrogen RE hybrid concept
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/25/mazdas-first-premacy-hydrogen-re-hybrid-leases-start-in-japan/
series hybrid with both a hydrogen rotary, a lithium ion pack, and an electric motor! (and gas fallback capability!)
woon:3) an outfit called EV Innovations is claiming that they'll offer a $35k 80 mph 170-mile range commuter EV in 2010. we shall see: we've heard this story before.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090324/CARNEWS/903249988
Tesla Model S. http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php
$49,900 after the $7.5k federal tax rebate. announced and unveiled today, shipping Q3 2011 supposedly.
3 pack choices: 160, 230, 300 mile range. 440V charging available. seats 5+2. 0-60 in 5.6s. 120 mph top speed. glass roof. 17" touchscreen that is the center console. hot.
$49,900 after the $7.5k federal tax rebate. announced and unveiled today, shipping Q3 2011 supposedly.
3 pack choices: 160, 230, 300 mile range. 440V charging available. seats 5+2. 0-60 in 5.6s. 120 mph top speed. glass roof. 17" touchscreen that is the center console. hot.
The type S looks great but I have a hard time believing anything Tesla says. Only 300 roadsters delivered and they're holding out their hands for $700 million in gov't money to make the S a reality. Add in the fact that they are taking unsecured customer deposits to help finance this project and Tesla looks only marginally more viable than Musk's dreams of building spacecraft. Personally, I'd rather see gov't money go to the Volt; more accessible price, closer to production and from a company that has a track record of actually producing cars.
i agree that tesla's finances appear shaky, and the brouhaha about the unsecured deposits is shady. i'd argue that Tesla has a better chance than GM to be profitable, however
. ideally i'd prefer that the money should go to Aptera and Th!nk instead...Hmm, I wonder if I could dump more than one car in this deal... $15k would go a long way toward getting me into a new car. I'd probably push the age back though, cars out of the late '90s are by and large pretty clean. Also, I'm not sure about this from a financial standpoint. It will could put the hurt on folks who can't afford a car over a couple grand and might encourage folks to take on a debt they really shouldn't.
I was reading about this at the barbershop.
But what would I do if I had no bad gas to dump in the woods?
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/28/piaggio-ape-reintroduced-to-uk-market/
Piaggio Ape. an old design that's being reintroduced to the UK market. 50 or 250cc gasoline or 400cc diesel power. "Panel Van, Pick Up, Cross or Tipper (tilting bed) models are all available along with a choice of a steering wheel or handlebars" or the retro-styled Ape Calessino model in the photo.
Interesting - I think too often people forget the think about how many people transported per mode of transportation. Like if you fill you car with 4 people they use less energy than the one guy driving his Hybrid by himself.
Why Water Won't Improve Your MPG: A PM and Dateline NBC Investigation
Over the years, I've tested plenty of gadgets that purport to reduce fuel consumption. None of them worked. None. Lately, I've tinkered with a number of them that rely on the same principle: using electricity from the car's battery to electrolyze water in an onboard cell and burning the resultant hydrogen-oxygen mix in the engine. In theory, the burning hydrogen will provide extra energy, reducing the amount of gasoline you need to move on down the road. There are dozens of websites, and dozens of people on Ebay touting these devices, guaranteeing, depending on their level of chutzpah, anywhere from 15 percent to 300 percent improvement in fuel economy by simply bolting on one of their devices.
I've been working with NBC's Dateline to debunk the whole hydrogen-on-demand industry. The show's producer bought a car, an ordinary five-year old Honda Accord, to perform our tests. I checked the car over to make sure it was up to spec. Then we did some over-the-road and steady-state dynamometer testing to establish base-line fuel economy numbers. NBC followed my testing up with additional testing at an EPA-certified emissions lab, which wasn't cheap. The lab used its climate-controlled emissions dyno to establish fuel economy numbers in our Accord with the same protocols the EPA uses to generate the numbers on the window sticker of new cars. They're accurate and reproducible to well under 1 percent.
Then we took the car to a specialist who installed, for nearly $1900(!), a hydrogen generator and a system of other enhancements. There was a fuel heater, fuel-line magnets (which I debunked here), and several inscrutable boxes full of electronics designed to fool the car's computer into using less fuel. There was even a bottle of acetone to add to the fuel. (This is something that I've mentioned doesn't work here and here). The specialist guaranteed major improvements in fuel consumption. One week and nearly two grand later, the producer from NBC (who still hadn't identified himself as anyone except a guy who was tired of spending $50 to fill up his tank) picked up the car. He got a gas receipt proving the installer had seen 96 mpg, nearly triple the original economy.
We took the car straight back to that same EPA lab for another round of testing. It was followed shortly by a week's worth of road testing, dyno testing and general poking about to see what we could discover.
You can guess, right? The total improvement in fuel economy after $1800 plus of expenditure? Bupkis. Too small to measure. Nada. In fact, if you look at the EPA tests with the system switched on and then off, there's a tiny increase in fuel consumption when the system is turned on. I attribute this to the 15 amps or so of current the electrolysis cell consumes to produce hydrogen. That current uses horsepower to spin the generator, and that consumes gasoline. The hydrogen "boost" couldn't even compensate for its own losses.
honda insight reviews. the first compares a 2010 Honda Insight ($20k base USD) to a 2009 VW Golf TDI ($23,870 base for the jetta wagon per vw.com). draw your own conclusions.
the second is from CNET, and focuses more on the interior tech (HD version if you click through):
the second is from CNET, and focuses more on the interior tech (HD version if you click through):
i apologize ONLY if this has been posted before. Toshi you have issues. Will your "pet" threads ever die, it's like you're tampering with nature. Do you not believe in the cycle of life man?
http://media.southparkstudios.com/media/images/511/image_07.gif
http://media.southparkstudios.com/media/images/511/image_07.gif
i'm not sure if that southpark gizmo has been posted before, skookum, but it certainly has been posted in many prius threads . with regard to this long-lived thread i felt it was a much better idea than having separate threads for things that, on their own, aren't threadworthy but are interesting when lumped together with other, similar beasts. one thread is easier to ignore than many.
in other thread-bump-worthy news REI has started to sell electric bikes. this is good in that most existing vendors seem to have very precarious business models, and support is everything for these kinds of goods.
http://www.rei.com/category/10105228
here's their top model:
Urban Mover UM44S Sprite Electric Assist Bike - 2009. that's a mouthful. $2000. detachable 36V 9Ah Panasonic lithium ion battery, with a "250W high-torque brushless rear hub motor". it's a pedelec, meaning that it only assists when you pedal, and it uses a torque sensor in order to tell how much to assist:
. with regard to this long-lived thread i felt it was a much better idea than having separate threads for things that, on their own, aren't threadworthy but are interesting when lumped together with other, similar beasts. one thread is easier to ignore than many.in other thread-bump-worthy news REI has started to sell electric bikes. this is good in that most existing vendors seem to have very precarious business models, and support is everything for these kinds of goods.
http://www.rei.com/category/10105228
here's their top model:
Urban Mover UM44S Sprite Electric Assist Bike - 2009. that's a mouthful. $2000. detachable 36V 9Ah Panasonic lithium ion battery, with a "250W high-torque brushless rear hub motor". it's a pedelec, meaning that it only assists when you pedal, and it uses a torque sensor in order to tell how much to assist:
it's cut from a similar cloth as my bike but with different design goals and parameters. i like mine better, needless to say:
Yours is still pimp, Toshi.
I can't wait for the EV KTM next year, I will trade my gasser in on one in a heartbeat.
I can't wait for the EV KTM next year, I will trade my gasser in on one in a heartbeat.
it does look like many EV motorcycles are coming to market in Obama's first term or are already here:
KTM EV
Brammo Enertia
Zero X and S (in theory)
Honda and Yamaha (?)
Quantya Strada
Electric Motorsport GPR-S
Vectrix's whole odd and expensive lineup
sundry Chinese imports of varying quality and specs
it's like the wild west in terms of picking a company that'll be around in 5 years, tho, with honda and yamaha as exceptions, of course. (i also have the problem that jessica has granted a papal exemption for 3-wheelers like the MP3 but not 2-wheelers. how to get around this?)
KTM EV
Brammo Enertia
Zero X and S (in theory)
Honda and Yamaha (?)
Quantya Strada
Electric Motorsport GPR-S
Vectrix's whole odd and expensive lineup
sundry Chinese imports of varying quality and specs
it's like the wild west in terms of picking a company that'll be around in 5 years, tho, with honda and yamaha as exceptions, of course. (i also have the problem that jessica has granted a papal exemption for 3-wheelers like the MP3 but not 2-wheelers. how to get around this?)
For me, my money is on KTM, at least from an off road perspective. Not only have they got the financial backing, but their vision is on a track ready bike, not your average off road enthusiasts bike. The initial testing has shown real promise and their machines are so far ahead of the curve when compared to Honda or Yamaha, it's an easy choice.
Zero X had been testing the longest, or at least it looks that way. But as far as longevity from a corporate outlook, I would take KTM hands down.
Street machines are a whole separate beast, though. I had an MP3 250 pull up to me at the light yesterday, looked like a great little machine. I think that would be my first choice in a plug in over the others so far, mainly because of the company backing.
I never realized your frame was so aero :biggrin:i
the duct taped controller helps form that smooth teardrop shape
sweet jeebus, we need to "liberate" some military tech that us taxpayers paid for for commercial use:
A123 batteries, 300V, unknown Ah. air suspension. 4 hub motors, 200 kW total output and 700 ft.-lb. torque iirc. any of the 4 hub motors can drive the car home at 45 mph, alone, should the others fail. and those hub motors aren't fragile, either: this thing can be parachute-dropped out of a V22 without issue. will work in 3' of water.
here's a two part video detailing the vehicle:
http://engineeringtv.com/blogs/etv/archive/2008/06/09/raytheon-bluw-v-hy-dra-part-1.aspx
while it's heartening that this technology exists it angers me greatly that it's funded by the government yet isn't seeing productive use, instead offering our military another way to kill, albeit silently and with a low carbon footprint.
A123 batteries, 300V, unknown Ah. air suspension. 4 hub motors, 200 kW total output and 700 ft.-lb. torque iirc. any of the 4 hub motors can drive the car home at 45 mph, alone, should the others fail. and those hub motors aren't fragile, either: this thing can be parachute-dropped out of a V22 without issue. will work in 3' of water.
here's a two part video detailing the vehicle:
http://engineeringtv.com/blogs/etv/archive/2008/06/09/raytheon-bluw-v-hy-dra-part-1.aspx
while it's heartening that this technology exists it angers me greatly that it's funded by the government yet isn't seeing productive use, instead offering our military another way to kill, albeit silently and with a low carbon footprint.