[IH8Rice]

How about going uphill in Seattle in that thing.

or how about getting laid in any city in that thing

 

[Toshi]

How about going uphill in Seattle in that thing.

maybe with a 20t up front and 34t in the back... maybe. heh.

in other news, the Brammo Enertia is to be officially unveiled yesterday. in advance of this ceremony the NYTimes has written it up. electrics going mainstream indeed. the article has little that we didn't already know, but does have some interesting bits about its inception and philosophy. in particular it's going to be assembled in the US! and its supply chain is very green.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/automobiles/07BRAMMO.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

... When Enertia deliveries begin in early July — they will be sold through Best Buy — new owners can fill up for pennies per charge rather than dollars per gallon...

Mr. Bramscher contemplated a competitor for the Tesla Roadster, but determined it would take a half-billion-dollar investment to engineer and build an electric car. And there was a bigger challenge: while the promise of fast charging was (and still is) on the horizon, electric cars were not yet affordable for the average commuter.

“What makes sense now, in terms of power-to-weight ratio and energy density,” Mr. Bramscher said in a recent interview, “is a motorcycle.” ...

Lessons had been learned from manufacturing the Atom, including how to make a prototype rapidly and then take the motorcycle into production. The motorcycle would not have the Atom’s handcrafted parts.

It would be engineered for high-volume production and have labor costs lower than what it would take to ship the completed bike from China. Though parts come from around the world, Mr. Bramscher said he wanted to make assembling the bike in the United States economically feasible.

Mr. Bramscher also said he wanted to keep the supply chain as green as possible. Brammo coordinates “milk runs” through Europe to consolidate components before shipping the parts to the United States. It also works with vendors to use recycled shipping materials. Sapa, a supplier of aluminum products in Portland, Ore., puts Brammo’s orders in recyclable, reusable plastic crates for shipment to Ashland, at the state’s southern border. Brammo then ships the crates back to be reused.

The first Enertias will roll out of Brammo’s headquarters this summer. These first bikes will have a range of 45 miles at 25 m.p.h. (as with any battery-powered vehicle, maxing out the speedometer will significantly decrease the range). Mr. Bramscher expects to ramp up production into the tens of thousands quickly and employ 80 to 100 people by the end of the year. ...

 

[Westy]

that's a nice looking velomobile. but $9k USD. really? it's awfully hard to justify that kind of money for something pedal powered yet without a roof.

$9K for a pedal powered dildo.

 

[jimmydean]

in other news, the Brammo Enertia is to be officially unveiled yesterday. in advance of this ceremony the NYTimes has written it up. electrics going mainstream indeed. the article has little that we didn't already know, but does have some interesting bits about its inception and philosophy. in particular it's going to be assembled in the US! and its supply chain is very green.

Now all I need is a job in Ashland and I can pick one up as my commuter. The wife wants to live in the country and right now the areas of interest are about 15 minutes away. So something like this would work for non-winter months for sure.

 

[Toshi]

recall my long-ass post on things with windshields and no windshield wipers? well, look at this thing:

http://www.biondiaccessori.eu/biondi/dettaglio.asp?ID=2038

90 euros.

Universal, with removable antitheft windshield wiper.
Foot control of wiper and sprinkler.
The installation requires drilling of the windshield and of the footboard.

 

[Toshi]

in other news, the Brammo Enertia is to be officially unveiled yesterday[ed: er, tomorrow, that is, today]. in advance of this ceremony the NYTimes has written it up. electrics going mainstream indeed. the article has little that we didn't already know, but does have some interesting bits about its inception and philosophy. in particular it's going to be assembled in the US! and its supply chain is very green.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/09/engadget-cruises-with-the-brammo-enertia-electric-motorcycle-wi/

Wrap-up

So, the natural question is: how does it compare to the Zero S? The answer depends on your priorities. At $11,995 to start ($14,995 if you want the limited edition, carbon fiber-clad model), there's a heftier premium to pay, and with half the power, a lower top speed, and a shorter range, the Enertia is not much of a value proposition.

But, if you're just looking at the numbers, neither of these two come out on top when compared to something like a Kawasaki Ninja 250R, which can be had for about a third the price, easily best 60mpg, and run circles around the pair of them on a track. If you're buying an electric motorcycle you're looking for something different, something special, and the Enertia certainly feels special. From that almost tacky but still cool power button on the tank, down over the minimalist fairing, and back to the chopped seat, it all fits together and fits well.

Despite the lack of oomph we like the bike a lot, and while we can't say we relish the idea of letting a Geek Squad member diagnose potentially life-threatening technical issues, with any luck more reassuring service opportunities will present themselves in the near future. Bikes should finally start showing up at select Best Buy stores on the West Coast in early July, while those who've already pre-ordered will be receiving shipments about the same time. So, you'd better get that deposit deposited if you want one before the riding season is over -- assuming of course you live somewhere that has a riding season.

 

[Toshi]

also, this answers two questions i'd had about the MP3: first, would it be possible under any circumstances to drag a knee, and second, what would happen after exhausting the 40 degrees of lean angle permissible in the front suspension...

 

[DaveW]

*sigh*
If only more cities (mine included) could be as forward thinking as Amsterdam.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,629392,00.html#ref=nlint

The Dutch city's eco-friendly infrastructure has new power hookups for electric cars, solar panels and household wind turbines.

I really do despair about how far behind NZ's infrastructure is going to be with the governments inability to forward plan infrastructure like this.

 

[SkaredShtles]

*sigh*
If only more cities (mine included) could be as forward thinking as Amsterdam.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,629392,00.html#ref=nlint



I really do despair about how far behind NZ's infrastructure is going to be with the governments inability to forward plan infrastructure like this.

They must be taking cues from the good ol' US of A.

 

[buildyourown]

Has this one been posted yet.
The numbers look good, but it looks like a Chinese POS.

http://www.codaautomotive.com/#/practical

 

[Toshi]

Has this one been posted yet.
The numbers look good, but it looks like a Chinese POS.

http://www.codaautomotive.com/#/practical

i read that coda intends to charge $45k USD for that thing. that boggles the mind. would i pay $40k for a volt? maybe. would i pay $40k for an aptera? more likely. would i pay $40k for that coda thing, a chinese econocar shell with an ugly nose and a lot of lithium underhood… let's just say that signs are pointing to "no".

 

[buildyourown]

It depends on what you would use the car for. The Volt, and the new Prius for that matter, have such a pathetic range on all-electric, I would be more inclined to buy the Coda. Too bad it's sooo ugly.
It's obvious they had a lot more money to spend on batteries. That's the rub for $40k. Engine or batteries, pick one.

They really need to put some muscle into asthetic design. I'm not saying that's all that matters, but if you are dropping $$$ for a new car, you need to be excited about how it looks.
That ling looks like a $8999 Kia with spinner hubcaps and LED fog lights. What's the market demographic again?

 

[Toshi]

the TTX GP on the Isle of Man was held today. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/12/spoiler-alert-ttxgp-winner-is/

results:

1st place: Team Agni. Avg speed 87.434 mph.
2nd place: early island arrivers. 77.841 mph.
3rd place: Brammo. 75.350 mph.
4th place: Mission Motors. 74.091 mph.

video footage: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/12/video-footage-from-ttxgp-zero-emissions-motorcycle-race/

 

[Toshi]

a long-ass guest blog post on chris martenson's website on electric cargo bikes, of all things… kind of mirrors my own thought processes.

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/quiet-revolution-bicycles-recapturing-role-utilitarian-people-movers-part-i/20473

chris martenson's crash course is very good, btw, if not quite directly relevant to the topic of this thread other than that people won't be able to afford cars and gas in the post-apocalyptic future

http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

 

[jimmydean]

Rossi on the 09 R1 testing out the Isle of Man course.

Crossplane crankshaft...

 

[Toshi]

review of the Evaproducts Track T800CDI diesel motorcycle (15k Euros, 140 Imperial mpg/115 US mpg):

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/First-rides--tests/2009/June/jun0409-diesel-motorcycle-review/

Tough
The reason for the bike’s low power output is Evaproduct’s desire to make it last– an engine life of 250,000 miles is claimed – and give excellent fuel consumption. Those qualities only appeal to a limited number of people – for the rest of the world, they’re attributes of limited use that come as the expense of riding enjoyment, so until diesel bikes tune in to the needs to the wider biking public, it’ll stay as a niche machine.

THE FACTS

Track T800CDI
£15,000
Engine: 799cc, six-valves, liquid-cooled three cylinder turbo-charged diesel, common rail fuel injection, constantly-variable transmission.
Power (claimed): 45bhp
Weight: 220kg (fluids, no fuel)
Colours: Silver, black or white
Contact: http://www.dieselmotorcycles.eu/

 

[jimmydean]

I want to build a diesel bike soon. I have 2 bikes in the works now, so maybe bike 3 or 4 will be a diesel. I want to do a turbo diesel using a small (15-30hp) diesel and mini turbo. I have seen diesel conversions using NA diesels like a 10hp Yanmar diesel. This one was a Honda motorcycle converted to run bio with a 9hp Yanmar off ebay.

<edit> Fuel mileage listed as "well over 100mpg".

 

[Toshi]

1) Plug In America has a nice, monthly updated plug in vehicle database. there's lots of overlap with this thread, but it's much easier to read, i admit!

http://www.pluginamerica.org/plug-in-vehicle-tracker.html

2) the new Honda Insight is falling short of its projected 90k units/yr. in fact it might only sell 50k this year. not horrible but either represents poor forecasting, poor demand, or a really poor economy. or all three.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/honda-insight-a-flop/

3) meanwhile Toyota has racked up 80k preorders for the 2010 Prius, expects to sell 400k of the this year, and is running their plants in Japan 24 hours a day. (well, at least the plants making the Prius--everything else is still idled, basically...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/13/business/global/13prius.html?ref=automobiles

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

1) Plug In America has a nice, monthly updated plug in vehicle database. there's lots of overlap with this thread, but it's much easier to read, i admit!

http://www.pluginamerica.org/plug-in-vehicle-tracker.html

2) the new Honda Insight is falling short of its projected 90k units/yr. in fact it might only sell 50k this year. not horrible but either represents poor forecasting, poor demand, or a really poor economy. or all three.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/honda-insight-a-flop/

3) meanwhile Toyota has racked up 80k preorders for the 2010 Prius, expects to sell 400k of the this year, and is running their plants in Japan 24 hours a day. (well, at least the plants making the Prius--everything else is still idled, basically...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/13/business/global/13prius.html?ref=automobiles

the new prius is really nice. ive been testing and reading some technical stuff on it lately for work, and its nothing short of an engineering marvel imho.

the synergy drive control and the transmission (actually the fact they made it economically reasonable and reliable) is mindblowing.
they will be launched in peru next month, at $37k. (similaly priced to entry level compact executive cars like the audi A4 and the 3-series). we expect to sell 50 (lol) in the whole country over the next year,:biggrin:

 

[IH8Rice]

1)

2) the new Honda Insight is falling short of its projected 90k units/yr. in fact it might only sell 50k this year. not horrible but either represents poor forecasting, poor demand, or a really poor economy. or all three.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/honda-insight-a-flop/

its not poor forecasting and or poor demand. its the economy and the fact that the Prius has the market cornered.

 

[Total Heckler]

Hit 270 miles on my commuter bike today. =]

 

[Toshi]

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are a dead end from a technological, practical, and climate perspective &#8212; Chu & Obama are right to kill the program, Part 1

Using fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen from zero-carbon sources such as renewable power or nuclear energy has a cost of avoided carbon dioxide of more than $600 a metric ton, which is more than a factor of ten higher than most other strategies being considered today&#8230;.

So I wrote in a 2005 journal article, &#8220;The car and fuel of the future,&#8221; which was the &#8220;hottest article&#8221; in Energy Policy from July 2006 through March 2007 (and still #8 as recently as September 2008).

So after the Bush administration squandered some $2 billion on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, it was welcome news that our Nobel-prize-winning Energy Secretary Steven Chu submitted a budget that sharply scaled back the hydrogen fuel cell program and shifted it away from a focus on transportation (see &#8220;Hydrogen car R.I.P. Secretary Chu agrees with Climate Progress and slashes hydrogen budget&#8220.

Now some hydrogen advocates &#8212; and even some environmental groups! &#8212; are trying to restore the money, which is much more urgently needed helping to develop and deploy clean technologies that could save energy and reduce pollution in the near-and medium-term. I&#8217;ll blog on that effort later.

First, however, I wanted to once and for all lay out the case against hydrogen as a transport fuel, starting with an excerpt of almost my entire Energy Policy piece. I think it is worthwhile reading for anyone interested in understanding the challenges facing alternative fuels.

...

It is possible we may never see a durable, affordable fuel cell vehicle with an efficiency, range, and annual fuel bill that matches even the best current hybrid vehicle. Of all AFVs and alternative fuels, fuel cell vehicles running on hydrogen are probably the least likely to be a cost-effective solution to global warming, which is why the other pathways deserve at least equal policy attention and funding.

 

[jimmydean]

Isle of Man TT results.

And local boys did well, too.

Ashland electric vehicle companies Barefoot Motors and Brammo Inc. each scored a spot on winners' podiums at the Isle of Man Friday after competing in the Time Trials Xtreme Grand Prix.

Brammo came in third in the pro class, with an average speed of 75 mph. The pro class is a division for electric motorcycles designed as professional racing bikes. Barefoot narrowly missed getting first place in the open class, a division for street bikes, and instead scored second, with an average speed of 62 mph.

 

[Toshi]

dirt rider has the first electric MX bike shootout, well, ever:

Dirt Rider: Electric Bike Shooutout: Zero X vs. Quantya Track

The Winner
When you get down to it, it's difficult to declare an outright winner between these two machines. The Zero-X boasts an awesome, consistent power delivery that just may overlap the chassis' handling and ergonomic oddities. The bike altogether feels like a motorized bicycle, but many of the Zero-X's shortcomings-suspension, grips, spokes and graphics-can be fixed. On the other hand, the Quantya Track feels like riders-not just engineers-built it, though this shows on the scale. The power may not be as consistent as the Zero-X, but the easier initial hit makes the Quantya easier to ride (particularly in off-road situations), and the ergonomics are solid. Between the two machines, the absolute best electric bike would be a combination of the two, as the Quantya's ergonomics and strength with the Zero-X's battery would be a sweet machine. But if we have to pick a winner, we'd hand it to the Zero-X based on the simple fact that the longer-lasting, removable battery equals more time in the saddle. And since we've been having so much fun on these, we really value saddle time!

 

[jimmydean]

The Quantya Track looks awesome, but I'm still holding out for the KTM.

 

[woodsguy]

I hope electric dirtbikes don't catch on. One of the reasons they are banned in my area is because of their noise. It also makes them easier to catch poaching trails. With these electric bikes they can destroy the trails in secret.

 

[jimmydean]

I hope electric dirtbikes don't catch on. One of the reasons they are banned in my area is because of their noise. It also makes them easier to catch poaching trails. With these electric bikes they can destroy the trails in secret.

But they are easy to chase down because they only got for 20 minutes.

Also, the type of person that would buy an electric dirt bike is not the type who is into destroying trails, IMO. I would buy one because I could enjoy the same legal trails I ride now with less impact.

<edit> It's like saying "I hope no gangsters buy an electric car because it would be easier for them to do a drive by shooting since you can't hear them coming."

 

[Toshi]

jimmydean, i read speculation today that the ktm e-moto is now a 2011, possibly 2012 item...

as for something that's available now stealth electric bikes out in australia has cranked out a new model. now they have both the stealth bomber and the stealth fighter:

Stealth Bomber. $7 or 8k Aussie dollars iirc.

Electrical output:
3kW

Mechanical output:
How hard can you pedal?

Top Speed: (no pedaling)
3kW - 70km/h
Range: (no pedaling)
35-50km

Frame:
ChroMo/Steel monocoque

Brakes:
Front - 6 Pot Hydraulic 9"
Upgrade - 8 pot Hydraulic 8"

Rear - 6 Pot Hydraulic 8"
Upgrade - 8 pot Hydraulic 8"

Suspension:
Front - RST 203mm
Upgrade - White Brothers Groove 200

Rear - 250mm DNM 4way coil/air

Transmission:
9 speed sequential gearbox

Weight -
3kW - 57kg

Stealth Fighter. $5k Aussie.

Electrical output:
2kW

Mechanical output:
How hard can you pedal?

Top Speed: (no pedaling)
50km/h

Top speed: (pedaling)
55km/h


Range: (no pedaling)
20-25km

Frame:
ChroMo/ Hi tensile steel monocoque

Brakes:
Front - 6 Pot Hydraulic 8"
Upgrade - 8 Pot Hydraulic 8"

Rear - 6 Pot Hydraulic 8"
Upgrade - 8 Pot Hydraulic 8"

Suspension:
Front - 160mm RST Storm Air

Rear - 200mm DNM 3way coil/air

Transmission:
2 speed internal BB
16 speed available with the addition of a deraileur.

Weight:
35kg

 

[jimmydean]

My "new" motorcycle is supposed to get an average 46mpg. I haven't tested it yet as it's been raining all day, but it's at least 12mpg better than my Streetfighter.

I have to say, this bike is crazy. Nearly half the HP and ALL the torque.

 

[Toshi]

my wife, jessica, and i test drove a few cars today: a 2009 Honda Fit Sport, a 2010 Honda Insight EX, and a base model 2010 Toyota Prius. we test drove them just for fun, as her 2001 Toyota Corolla LE is showing few signs of slowing down even as it passes through 120k miles on the clock, but we thought we could do some advance homework for the day that it does go kaput.

2009 Honda Fit Sport

price: $16,260 MSRP + TTD without navi
mileage: 27/33/29 city/hwy/combined mpg for the manual, 27/33/30 for the auto (or 28/35/31 for the base model slushbox)
fuel costs for 1 year per fueleconomy.gov: $1263
curb weight: 2520 lbs
passenger capacity: 90.8 cubic ft
cargo capacity: 20.6 cubic ft

impressions:

- the base model is unacceptable content-wise, with no cruise control even available and steelies
- exterior packaging is just about perfect for a 4 seat car
- interior accommodations are generally fine, and the flip-up/fold-down rear "magic seat" is awesome
- dashboard is really chintzy, unfortunately, especially the center stack (navi fixes this, but the navigation package adds a solid $1850!)
- windows in front of the front doors in the A-pillars actually work well
- 5-speed manual version actually gets 1 mpg less city/hwy than the 5-speed auto. how? the manual has a 0.727 5th gear with a 4.62 final drive ratio while the slushbox has a 0.552 5th gear with a 4.56 final drive ratio.
- completely silent at idle, moderately raucous under acceleration
- feels solid, rides nicely, smooth brakes, very slick and short throws from the manual gearchange
- rear window has no bar across it but is very short vertically for a somewhat compressed view of traffic behind oneself

verdict: quite a compelling little car, but feels like the cheapest honda that it is. in particular jessica was appalled by the center stack on the dashboard, and she's usually not one to complain about such things. it drove fine, however, and we'd probably get mid to upper 30s for mileage in it with the conservative way that we drive.

2010 Honda Insight EX

price: $21,300 + TTD without navi
mpg: 40/43/41 city/hwy/combined mpg
fuel costs for 1 year per fueleconomy.gov: $893
curb weight: 2727 lbs
passenger capacity: 85 cubic ft
cargo capacity: 15.9 cubic ft

impressions:

- just as with the Fit the Insight's base trim (LX) is unacceptable content-wise, with no cruise control and steel wheels as dealbreakers
- looks great on the exterior actually, with the way the taillights blend into the Kamm tail looking very honda-ish and futuristic simultaneously
- interior room is disappointing. very high luggage area floor with the seats only folding down flat to that level, with not much room at all between the high floor and the low, swoopy roof. not a useful hatchback when compared to either the Fit or the Prius!
- dashboard looks quite a bit nicer than that of the Fit, with nicer plastics and less obsession with circular forms
- the real-time feedback with the growing leaf logos (i got 10/10 half-leaves!) and the blue to green color shift behind the speedometer are actually quite fun, and do inspire one to drive more efficiently. jessica really got into it, and i already was on board from having driven my parents' Prius.
- driving dynamics feel much like a Fit, with perhaps a touch more road noise. nothing to write home about, and certainly doesn't feel as awful as many a recent magazine review would have you believe
- interior sightlines to the rear are compromised by the split in the rear window

verdict: not a bad car, and better in some ways than a Fit. not compelling, however, especially with the interior packaging and $6k price differential for a vehicle that is based off of the same platform. finally, even though the dashboard is nicer and less cluttered visually than that of the Fit it still is somewhat horrid.

2010 Toyota Prius

price: $22,000 MSRP + TTD for the base Prius II trim level
mileage: 51/48/50 city/hwy/combined mpg
fuel costs for 1 year per fueleconomy.gov: $732
curb weight: 3042 lbs
passenger capacity: 93.7 cubic ft
cargo capacity: 21.6 cubic ft

impressions:

- base trim on a Prius is livable, with cruise control, stability control, alloy wheels, power everything all standard, so the comparison between the Insight EX and the Prius base model is actually a fair one
- i can't say that i like the new stock 15" alloy wheel design, and the 17"s are only on the top-trim model
- interior room continues to be adequate, with a floor height much lower than that of the Insight with a higher roof: it's a more substantial car for sure
- the new dashboard layout is somewhat jarring, with a center console that basically hugs you, and a slightly higher perceived cowl height with a low roofline and sharply raked windshield. it's mildly claustrophobic, actually, and i can't say that i care for it much. the center console design does make room for a handbag underneath, however, a feature that jessica immediately picked up upon.
- the dashboard layout is simple and clean, and one can choose to suppress much of the extraneous information on the display. Touch Tracer controls are cool, too!
- driving dynamics are great. power was adequate, throttle tip-in can be adjusted from really sedate in Eco mode to brisk in Power mode, and its operation is very, very smooth and silent. it was much more refined feeling than either the Fit or the Insight.
- EV mode is good until 25 mph, at which point it shuts off. i was able to drive for the better part of a mile at 24 mph on the way back to the dealership without draining the battery appreciably. acceleration was really slow in EV mode but it works and is undeniably geeky.
- body motions seem a bit more controlled than on my parents' non-Touring 2006 Prius, but then again we weren't on an autocross course and the salesman was in the back seat
- interior sightlines are similarly compromised to the rear as in the Insight but both jessica and i found it less objectionable for some reason

verdict: we liked the new Prius quite a bit, and felt it was the strongest of the three vehicles when price is ignored. its dashboard layout is clean even if i'm still not sold on the new center console setup, its interior layout is sane and usable without the high floor of the Insight, its mileage is unparalleled, and its driving dynamics we actually felt to be quite good. price-wise the Prius does line up quite well with the Insight EX, as the base model Insight LX doesn't even have cruise control available as an option, a true deal-breaker, and looks the stripper with steel wheels. thus it's a no-brainer that we'd pick the Prius over an Insight.

the real question is whether we'd buy a Prius over a Fit: the Fit is a solid $6000 cheaper and it'd take over 10 years to make back the difference in gas prices alone. on the other hand, the Prius would retain more residual value than a Fit after being used for an equivalent amount, but any way you slice it the Prius is going to be a more expensive lifetime proposition. at this point it really would be a judgment call, and i think for us the smoothness, silence, EV mode, and clean, non-chintzy dashboard of the Prius would sway us in its favor. your priorities may well differ, but this is what we'd spend our hypothetical money on.

 

[Toshi]

the DOE has finally gotten off of its ass--what does the ass of a government agency look like, anyway?--and awarded some loans under their sleekly named Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing Incentive Program, or ATVMIP. rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

in any case, the big news is that Tesla got a DOE loan! as well as ford and nissan.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/23/ford-nissan-tesla-all-big-winners-in-doe-advanced-technology-l/

Tesla racked up $465 million to be used towards Model S development. its partnership with Mercedes-Benz will also help.

Ford raked in $5.9 billion in financing to be used for its upcoming electric Transit Connect EV and Focus EV.

Nissan was awarded $1.6 billion to be used for production of batteries and EVs at it tennessee production plan.

 

[Toshi]

i wonder how many mpg this gets... it makes my scooter seem like a tank in comparison!

 

[jimmydean]

i wonder how many mpg this gets...

35mpg tops.

 

[nelsonjm]

I wonder why that doesn't have a place to rest your feet?

 

[Toshi]

35mpg tops.

but the frontal area is miniscule! at least if you don't have a large shoe size.

relevant to this thread's ostensible topic is this 2008 Canadian Driver article:

Special Feature: 2008 CanadianDriver 50-litre Challenge

within it they drove 13 cars available for under $20k CAD for as long as they'd go on 50 liters of fuel, thereby calculating real world fuel economy. their results:

Conclusions

The car that went the furthest on 50-litres of fuel in the CanadianDriver 2008 50-litre ChallengeTM was the 2009 Toyota Corolla, followed very closely by the 2008 Honda Civic. Third place went to the Pontiac Vibe.

None of the vehicles consumed over 8.0 L/100km, and based on fuel consumption of under 6.0 L/100km, 6.0-7.0 L/100 km and over 7.0 L/100 km, they fall into three groups, as follows:

Group One Kilometres L/100 km

Toyota Corolla 1017 4.9
Honda Civic 947 5.3
Pontiac Vibe 854 5.9

Group Two

Hyundai Elantra 812 6.2
Mazda3 784 6.4
Pontiac G5 755 6.6
Mitsubishi Lancer 754 6.6
Kia Spectra 742 6.7
Ford Focus 742 6.7
Nissan Sentra 717 7.0

Group Three

Volkswagen City Golf 670 7.5
Dodge Caliber 653 7.7
Suzuki SX4 637 7.9

4.9 L/100 km is 48 mpg! their conclusions:

Why do some compact cars use significantly less fuel than others? Technology, engine management systems, weight and aerodynamics all play a part. But as a whole, this category of vehicles continues to offer Canadians the prospect of very economical operating costs, more interior space than you may think, and a complete range of available safety and convenience features. Couple these attributes with a fuel efficient driving style, and you can find a car that will work with you to better manage fuel costs.

All for under $20,000!

 

[stevew]

jimmydean....for your next project....stick a VW TDI in a old Toyota pick up. Swap kit sold here.

 

[BikerBoy28]

This is how i get around!

 

[jimmydean]

jimmydean....for your next project....stick a VW TDI in a old Toyota pick up. Swap kit sold here.

I still want to do a '63 Chevy C10 with a Duramax. I miss my '69 with air ride. Use a Porterbuilt Dropmember front and a bio powered monster.

 

[SkaredShtles]

my wife, jessica, and i test drove a few cars today: a 2009 Honda Fit Sport, a 2010 Honda Insight EX, and a base model 2010 Toyota Prius. we test drove them just for fun, as her 2001 Toyota Corolla LE is showing few signs of slowing down even as it passes through 120k miles on the clock, but we thought we could do some advance homework for the day that it does go kaput.

Unless they're making Corollas a LOT $hittier than they used to you should have at least 100K more miles before that thing goes kaput...

 

[Leppah]

yeah. toyota's almost last too damn long. My mechanic buddy acquired an 82 camry that had over 300,000 miles on the stock engine. i drove it around a bit just to check it out. That thing still ran great. Amazing little engines.