[LordOpie]

your leaps of logic belong in the non sequitur thread.

like i said, show some results and the world will listen. until then the SEC and i believe this guy and this purported tech is pure snake oil, worse than the stuff that robdamaniiiiii peddles.

Why would you say such a thing?

Tapping the ocean's power is not a big leap from a waterwheel on a small river.

 

[syadasti]

Why would you say such a thing?

Tapping the ocean's power is not a big leap from a waterwheel on a small river.

Wave power is definitely a real and actively pursued technology today. I didn't read 3D or Toshi's claims about as it was OT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_power

 

[Stray_cat]

 

[3D.]

will not daily carry billions of people to work over millions of miles in tis modern world

 

[Toshi]

Why would you say such a thing?

Tapping the ocean's power is not a big leap from a waterwheel on a small river.

i have no doubt in the kinetic energy stored in waves. making the leap from wave power to the mystical properties of rare earth metal magnets is what i take issue with.

 

[LordOpie]

i have no doubt in the kinetic energy stored in waves. making the leap from wave power to the mystical properties of rare earth metal magnets is what i take issue with.

But if you did believe it and wore one on a necklace, imagine how much more tail you'd get.

 

[3D.]

i have no doubt in the kinetic energy stored in waves. making the leap from wave power to the mystical properties of rare earth metal magnets is what i take issue with.

what is so mystical about a triforce gate, do you know what one is?

 

[3D.]

permanent magnets performing mystical "work" in conjunction with secondary energy:
http://s2nd.com/videos/motorcycles/magnetic-motorcycle-hybrid-japan-35/

 

[Toshi]

ok, back to the topic at hand.

2008 Zap Xebra. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/reviews/2008-zap-xebra-review/

$11,200. 15 to 17 mile range per the owners. drives like a wheelbarrow per thetruthaboutcars.com. 6 month warranty. 6.7 hp electric motor. 32 mph top speed.

i can't believe ANYONE buys one of these. add horrible build quality to the mix and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

[spectaculardark]

i live in Richmond, Va and this is my transportation:

its an old schwinn i converted to fixed gear

 

[jimmydean]

OK, we drove a bunch of cars today.

Scion XD
Scion XB
Nissan Versa Wagon
Mazda 3 5 door
Mazda 6 hatchback
Pontiac Vibe

None of them had the inside room or the cargo space of the Honda Fit. Not only does the Fit get the best mileage, but is also the cheapest. So now that we know, I have a few bills to pay first, then we are getting a Black Fit.

Thanks, D. I would never thought I would like that car just looking at it from the outside.

 

[5150dhbiker]

I used to have a BMW that was good for around town but now have a stupid truck with massive mud tires.

When I don't use that, I ride my DH bike to work (ya...only .5mi from my house, haha). I'll keep doing that for now but I got a '58 Porsche 356B on the way and I'll be taking that. At least it'll get better gas milage then 10mpg.

 

[Mike B.]

Didn't read the whole thread to see if this wasn't mentioned but a new electric bike was shown at the Taipei show

Linky

 

[Toshi]

Didn't read the whole thread to see if this wasn't mentioned but a new electric bike was shown at the Taipei show

Linky

that GoCycle looks neat. too bad no details were given on speed, range, battery capacity or technology, etc.

they did say who their target audience was, however :

“The customer going into a traditional European store looking for an e-bike is not our customer,” Thorpe said. “Our customer is 25 to 45 years old, a young city professional, with a family.”

 

[Mike B.]

they did say who their target audience was, however :

Remind you of anyone you know? Have to get cracking on that family

 

[BMXman]

OK, we drove a bunch of cars today.

Scion XD
Scion XB
Nissan Versa Wagon
Mazda 3 5 door
Mazda 6 hatchback
Pontiac Vibe

None of them had the inside room or the cargo space of the Honda Fit. Not only does the Fit get the best mileage, but is also the cheapest. So now that we know, I have a few bills to pay first, then we are getting a Black Fit.

Thanks, D. I would never thought I would like that car just looking at it from the outside.

Glad I could help...I'm the same way about the looks...not to into them but the vehicle just fits our every other need....D

 

[jimmydean]

Glad I could help...I'm the same way about the looks...not to into them but the vehicle just fits our every other need....D

The one we drove was black with aftermarket tint and some nice Honda 6 spoke 17" (I think they were 17's) wheels. The addition of the tint and wheels with the rear spoiler made it look a little sporty. It reminded me so much of my CRX, I didn't want to get out of it.

The Scion xD was a close 2nd. But the cargo area isn't nearly as well engineered as the Fit.

 

[syadasti]

Looks like the nissan cube is going EV - take a look under the hood - Lion...

http://www.supernissans.net/forums/nissan-automotive-news/697-ny-international-auto-show-denki-cube-concept-exclusive.html

 

[Stray_cat]

i live in Richmond, Va and this is my transportation:

its an old schwinn i converted to fixed gear

There's no way the fixie-theory would work, it's just inconceivable...why how on earth could you get anywhere with just your legs? The theory-of-suburbia debunked that in the 60s...oh wait...never mind. Nice ride

While all these wee-cars are great, and electricity is fun. The mileage isn't the bottom line. You gotta make, it's gonna break down, it's going to end up in a fill, or at best have to have more energy pumped into it in order to recycle it.

 

[jimmydean]

While all these wee-cars are great, and electricity is fun. The mileage isn't the bottom line. You gotta make, it's gonna break down, it's going to end up in a fill, or at best have to have more energy pumped into it in order to recycle it.

The fact is, there is no single solution to support society.

You have to reduce consumption while allowing viable options. Right now the main choices for transportation are (non-pedal only):

Ethanol
Biodiesel
Electricity

All of these take more energy to produce than they output. The ultimate goal is to find a source that is as close to 1:1 productionutput as possible for a given situation.

 

[Toshi]

Giant Twist Freedom DX. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/4253976.html

$2k. 250-watts (~1/2 hp). Li-ion batteries at 26 V, but the important bit, capacity, is unspecified.

Because the Giant Twist Freedom DX ($2000) runs on a cyborglike mix of muscle and machine power, it can travel twice as far as most powered cycles—up to 75 miles per charge.

When you pedal, an integrated torque sensor summons the perfect amount of power from the bike’s front-hub motor to keep you at a steady pace; pedal harder and the motor settles down, take a rest and it kicks into overdrive.

i'm not sure how one would choose a cruising speed, but i'm sure the article just left out those details . i also wonder what rider effort is implied in its "75 mile range". how far would that same rider ride without assist? how far would the bike go on level ground with no rider input?

fit it with clipless pedals, a real seat, longer stem, maybe some mustache bars and i'd rock it.

 

[jimmydean]

^^ Put a non-old lady seat on it and I would rock it!

 

[bohorec]

Found this on the mtbr, nice report about hydrogen fuel cell bike shown on Taipei Cycle Show:

http://blog.taiwaneditorial.com/2008/03/hydrogen-powered-fuel-cell-bike.html

The collection of hydrogen fuel cell bicycles here:

http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/hydrogen-fuel-cell-bikes/

 

[bohorec]

Steam powered bikes:

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/09/steam_bicycles.html


Some details are shown in this short video;

 

[Toshi]

ok, so the reality of my life the next five years (as a medical resident in an EXPENSIVE area, long island, after spending another year in a expensive-but-not-exorbitantly-so area, here in seattle) is going to be that i'll be counting my pennies. sadly that rules many of the options in this thread out.

a) i don't want to pay for (car) parking if i don't have to:

quarterly (and annual) cost to park a car at the UW: $254.76 ($1019.04/year)
same for a motorcycle: $84.96 ($339.84/year)

b) i'll be working ridiculously long hours at two different hospitals across town (so can't live right next to both), it rains a lot in seattle, and gets kind of cold in the winter, making 5 AM bike commuting unattractive

c) FlexCar/ZipCar has a decent presence in seattle

d) i'm planning on selling my RX-8 in may of this year. we'll keep the girl's 2001 toyota corolla as it's sufficiently reliable and frugal, and will make a good "new york car" in our estimation (we won't need two/don't want to take two cross country).

e) while i can work on bikes just fine i have never worked on a motorcycle before and wouldn't feel comfortable (trying to) fix a beater motorcycle

f) i've already been through the MSF ridercourse a few years back and have the endorsement on the license.

g) i'd like the machine to be able to get up to 60 mph safely so that i can ride it up on the freeway to see the girl (she lives north of town as she commutes to one of the puget sound islands via ferry every day).

h) the bus is not an option on most days, sadly, as i'll have to be at the hospital around the time the very first routes are rolling out of the shed.



sooo..... what of the two wheeled variety should i get? a new scooter? honda? scooters are appealing at the moment for their built in storage space.

 

[jimmydean]

If you can live with a scooter, get a cheap knock-off. Something like a Roketa 150 or something (less than $1000 usually)

 

[Toshi]

you sure about that? i'm a long way off from trusting a chinese (or korean for that matter, altho the hyundai genesis may well change my mind) car, let alone something that's directly under my legs. hell, i don't trust things made by the UAW either . give me overpriced stuff made by local artisans in oregon . part of my apprehension is irrational/xenophobic, but part of it is from seeing the HORRIBLE crash test results of chinese cars. i have no doubt that their scooters cut similar corners.

given the choice i'd pick something actually made in japan.

what displacement motor will i need to have something that can get up to freeway speeds? 4 stroke, please. i don't need a speed demon.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

are you set on a motorcycle?? whats the expectancy in miles before bodily injuries in one on where you are going to be living?

are you set on a bike?
i thought about a bike when i lived in the states, but living in suburbia and the commute distances being far too much, discarded the idea.
the difference in mpg and practicality from a bike with a big (but not speed demonish either) enough 4 stroke big enough over the 30+mpg you can get from a yaris, accent or rio might not be worth the hassle.
the difference would be around 15 extra mpg i´d guesstimate.
say you ride an astonishing 10k miles a year on a motorcycle... am not sure benefits outweight the not so marginal risk hike and liabilities.
i say, just bore the hole in the ozone layer a bit more and get a yaris, accent, rio :biggrin:


heard of the nissan march? ive seen a few, and they do pretty good mpg. doubt they are available in the states though. they´d be ideal, along the peugeot or citroen diesels.

 

[jimmydean]

what displacement motor will i need to have something that can get up to freeway speeds? 4 stroke, please. i don't need a speed demon.

I guess I look short term. It would likely last 2+ years without issue and unless you are thinking of it in NY as well, then maybe spend the extra coin for a Honda or Yamaha. 4 stroke with CVT should be quite solid.

As for crash tests, how do you crash test a scooter? I don't know that any of them would hold up. I looked at the Roketa's locally and thought they were not much different than anything made in Japan.

As for displacement, I would think a 150cc would suffice. I think they top out at 60mph. A 250cc will do at least 70mph, but I wouldn't want to do 70 on one.

 

[Toshi]

actually the savings are quite substantial, alexis, assuming i go with a weeny scooter. your point about personal safety being worth some tangible amount is valid, but i already put myself at substantial risk trading paint on the roadie with irate commuters.

here's how i worked out the math elsewhere:

2004 RX-8.

1) paid off. was $17k when i bought it, now depreciated to $15k sold privately.
2) 15k miles at 19 mpg combined (16/22) on $3.60 premium is $236/month in gas.
3) i pay roughly $140/mo for comprehensive insurance on the car.
4) a parking pass for the hospitals that i'll be working at next year (here in seattle) will cost $1020/yr.

a moped. (i'd do flexcar + the bus system for times when i need something more substantial.)

1) let's say i don't go cheap and get a new honda for reliability and a warranty. $3k? figure another $1k in riding gear.
2) 22 mpg on premium vs. at least 60 mpg on regular, plus i'm sure i'd cut down my mileage, let's assume 2/3 the mileage for discussion. i sure won't be skiing with that thing! if i manage to drive the thing 10k miles a year that'd be $47/month!
3) i'll be damned if i'm paying over $50/month for insurance.
4) a motorcycle parking pass for the same hospitals is $340/yr vs. $1020/yr ($28 vs. $85/mo).

that's an $11k one-time outright savings on the vehicle + gear, and $330+/month in operating/parking cost savings.

what would i sacrifice? autocross. being dry in the rain without raingear, my vanity (no joke), and having to plan out how to carry junk on the racks. but given that i do the majority of my commuting on a bicycle as it is i think i could handle it for this magnitude of money savings.

here's one that i saw mentioned elsewhere, albeit only a 49 cc little bugger (4 stroke tho so i wouldn't feel super guilty about the emissions, only somewhat):

yamaha C3. $2k. claimed up to 115 mpg!

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/529/0/home.aspx

 

[Toshi]

I guess I look short term. It would likely last 2+ years without issue and unless you are thinking of it in NY as well, then maybe spend the extra coin for a Honda or Yamaha. 4 stroke with CVT should be quite solid.

As for crash tests, how do you crash test a scooter? I don't know that any of them would hold up. I looked at the Roketa's locally and thought they were not much different than anything made in Japan.

As for displacement, I would think a 150cc would suffice. I think they top out at 60mph. A 250cc will do at least 70mph, but I wouldn't want to do 70 on one.

ok, so the crash test comment has no real scooter analogue, sure. but i still don't trust chinese knockoff manufacturers. (where would i get local support for an eBay beastie?)

i'll shoot for 150cc then. maybe will test ride a 50 for giggles. i did try out a vespa last summer, and it was amusing, but then again that was in salt lake city in the middle of summer, not a drop of water on the road to be seen...

 

[jimmydean]

ok, so the crash test comment has no real scooter analogue, sure. but i still don't trust chinese knockoff manufacturers. (where would i get local support for an eBay beastie?)

i'll shoot for 150cc then. maybe will test ride a 50 for giggles. i did try out a vespa last summer, and it was amusing, but then again that was in salt lake city in the middle of summer, not a drop of water on the road to be seen...

My daughters quad has a Honda knock off engine, all parts are interchangeable, so I can get anything at the local dealer. But I understand your concern. There used to be a shop here in town called Scooter City that carried a few good ones.

<edit>http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/mcy/613831685.html

MotoFino 150cc for $1295 (dealer)

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

actually the savings are quite substantial, alexis, assuming i go with a weeny scooter. your point about personal safety being worth some tangible amount is valid, but i already put myself at substantial risk trading paint on the roadie with irate commuters.

here's how i worked out the math elsewhere:




here's one that i saw mentioned elsewhere, albeit only a 49 cc little bugger (4 stroke tho so i wouldn't feel super guilty about the emissions, only somewhat):

yamaha C3. $2k. claimed up to 115 mpg!

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/529/0/home.aspx

a quad? a bike with a sidecar?
3 points or 4 points of contact with the ground beat 2, specially in the rainy nw.

 

[Changleen]

Scooters own it and there are various high quality models available that will be reliable, all weather viable machines.

Look for liquid cooled engines, front and rear disks, and respected European or Japanese brands. Modern scooter tyres mean riding in the rain is really not an issue provided you have the kit.

There is nothing better than running up the middle of two lanes of stationary traffic. My commute is now 7 minutes compared to 15-20 in the car or 35-45 on the bus.

Italjet Dragster:

2 Stroke liquid cooled 180cc engine. Faster than... well most stuff actually.

 

[Changleen]

Superscooter for PNW?

http://www.mp3.piaggio.com/index_eng.html

 

[Changleen]

My current ride:

Mine is red though. 100kph, 113Kg, 125cc liquid cooled OHC 4 stroke.

 

[Toshi]

Scooters own it and there are various high quality models available that will be reliable, all weather viable machines.

Look for liquid cooled engines, front and rear disks, and respected European or Japanese brands. Modern scooter tyres mean riding in the rain is really not an issue provided you have the kit.

There is nothing better than running up the middle of two lanes of stationary traffic. My commute is now 7 minutes compared to 15-20 in the car or 35-45 on the bus.

there seems to be a dearth of models in between the 49 cc runabouts and the 450 cc pseudo-tourers. the only ones that seem interesting so far in terms of both specs and price are:



2008 Yamaha Vino 125, http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/328/0/specs.aspx

$2700. 124 cc 4 stroke. disc/drum, 229 lbs. 89 mpg per the EPA's LA-4 test.

2007 (discontinued?!) Honda Elite 80, http://powersports.honda.com/scooters/model.asp?ModelName=Elite+80&ModelYear=2007&ModelId=CH807

$2400, 80 cc 4 stroke. drum/drum, 172 lbs, no mpg reported but should be excellent.

2008 Piaggio Fly 150 (the MP3 is really expensive). http://www.piaggiousa.com/pScooters/fly150specs.cfm

$2900. 150 cc 4 stroke, disc/drum, 247 lbs, 60-65 mpg via the manufacturer.

 

[Toshi]

at this level of cost it's tempting to look at the motorcycle range, but then one runs into the issues of small bikes not having storage as well as feature creep.

here's another interesting tidbit on the Vectrix electric scooter mentioned earlier ($11k!). apparently the readers of this thread weren't the only ones to balk at the price: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/21/vectrix-2007-maxi-scooter-sales-severely-disappointing/

The short version: In 2007, Vectrix built 2,002 vehicles (the $12,000 scooter seen above) but sold just 123 of them and now has had a lot of debt.

yikes.

relevant news for me given that i'm going to be at UWMC for another year even though it won't help me get _to_ the hospital/campus in the first place: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2004035112_uwbikes26m.html

UW campus to plug in electric bikes

By Susan Gilmore
Seattle Times staff reporter

You're a University of Washington medical student and you need to run an errand at University Village, but you rode the bus to school and it's a long walk from the university health-sciences campus to the shopping center.

Beginning next fall, the university will have a solution: electric bikes.

In what's touted as a first in the country, the UW will partner with a Boulder, Colo., company to provide electric bikes for students and faculty members across campus.

 

[stevew]

Scooter riders seem to be about as qualified riders as most SUV owners are qualified drivers.

Some of the most unaware of their surroundings/what is going on around them people I have seen on the road.

Just don't become one of them.

 

[Changleen]

there seems to be a dearth of models in between the 49 cc runabouts and the 450 cc pseudo-tourers.

Indeed it would appear you do not have a Gilera dealer in the USA. That sucks. There are a ton of 'Vespa' dealers who are associated with the Piaggio group who own Gilera. Maybe worth a few phone calls to try and get one of these:

Gilera Runner VXR 200. Mmm.