[jimmydean]

Newer American cars are built better than older American cars, but are still a far cry from most imports. There are still a lot of Gen1 Prius's running around here and even some old school Insights.

My comment was more about the end of the quote:

Since the beginning of the program, it has been General Motors' intention to develop the battery pack to last for the life of the vehicle.

And what they have lasts 8 years or 100k miles. Therefore, the life expectancy of a Volt from a GM engineer perspective is up to, but not to exceed 8/100k.

 

[dan-o]

The 8yr/100k warranty is due to the battery being considered an emissions component. That is the minimum warranty it can have but doesn't mean it won't last beyond the warranty period.

 

[jimmydean]

The 8yr/100k warranty is due to the battery being considered an emissions component. That is the minimum warranty it can have but doesn't mean it won't last beyond the warranty period.

I'm just saying I would be shocked if a Volt makes it that far. If it were a truck, I would be slightly more optimistic. My last American car was near dead after 5 years and limped until sold after 8.

 

[Toshi]

Brammo Empulse.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/brammo-empulse-this-changes-everything/

Empulse 6.0 = 60 mile range, $10k (before subsidies).
Empulse 8.0 = 80 miles, $12k
Empulse 10.0 = 100 miles, $14k

100+ mph top speed. Much more serious riding position and hardware than the Enertia. 390 lbs. 55 hp, 59 ft-lbs of torque.

Hot damn.

 

[jimmydean]

Brammo Empulse.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/brammo-empulse-this-changes-everything/

Empulse 6.0 = 60 mile range, $10k (before subsidies).
Empulse 8.0 = 80 miles, $12k
Empulse 10.0 = 100 miles, $14k

100+ mph top speed. Much more serious riding position and hardware than the Enertia. 390 lbs. 55 hp, 59 ft-lbs of torque.

Hot damn.

I need to stop in there today!

<edit> Tours start next month.

 

[Pesqueeb]

 

[jimmydean]

That's the MT-03 headlight I was going to use for my next project, too. Damn.

 

[Toshi]

So much cool stuff exists in prototype form, just waiting for a big company to bite and bring it to market. Example:

AVL Mini EREV with a tiny Wankel.

EREV drivetrain with a 10 kWh battery pack, a 254 cc single rotor Wankel that cranks out 10 kW at 5k rpm or 20 kW at 7k rpm, and a 2.6 gallon gas tank to feed the Wankel. 19 mile battery-only range, 124 miles with the range extender when housed in a Mini bodyshell.

 

[Toshi]

Here's an off-the-wall form of transportation... I suppose it's more efficient than a Ford- or Chevy-van-based RV but probably not more so than a Sprinter-based RV. In any case, either a van-based or a Sprinter-based RV won't be able to go so far off the beaten track as this one. I think it looks awesome and I kind of want one, but I also wonder what in the world it would be good for. Most camping spots do not require crazy high-clearance 4x4s to reach.

In any case, enough with the babble, here's the meat:

Jeep Trail Edition Camper, an official Mopar accessory. $12k with the 35" BFGs to match your Rubicon, 15" of ground clearance, and skid plates. Looks awesome. The combo of the Rubicon + trailer probably gets 15 mpg on the freeway tho...

 

[Toshi]

"LOL oil" indeed. Gotta love Silicon Valley.

 

[jimmydean]

So yes, I am still VERY excited about the Empulse tour next month and see how it fits. But part of me is having a tough time just buying something rather than building something.

So last night I was looking at rolling chassis and saw a report on the AC Induction motor that Native used for the TTXGP series. The Emplse sitll uses a standard brushless motor, so now I'm torn. So I am still looking at motors but the chassis will likely be something like this:

Light, nimble, with enough room for a battery pack and supporting hardware (I think). I am basically taking the Enertia and doubling the specs. I know the Empulse uses a proprietary battery and control system, but I want to see how close I can get with off the shelf parts.

 

[IH8Rice]

just got the press release for the Empulse:

e Brammo Empulse is without doubt the most exciting product announcement we have made so far and the reaction of motorcycle riders and the media has been truly amazing.

The Brammo Empulse will be available in three models to suit your riding needs all models will exceed 100mph.
Empulse 6.0 $9999 Average range 60 miles.
Empulse 8.0 $11995 Average range 80 miles.
Empulse 10.0 $13995 Average range 100 miles.
http://www.brammo.com/empulse/

cant imagine why they are selling through Best Buy

 

[stevew]

ford to sell the hybrid mkz for the same price as the gas version.

 

[IH8Rice]

i hear the panties dropping already

The three-year-long wait for the 2011 Chevrolet Volt's official U.S. price tag will finally be over in less than 24 hours. At the Plug-In 2010 Conference in San Jose, California on Tuesday, GM VP of Marketing Joel Ewanick will announce pricing details and the ordering process for the Volt. Following the announcement, there will be a live online webchat with Volt Marketing Director Tony DiSalle.

PRESS RELEASE:
MEDIA ADVISORY: Chevrolet to Provide Details on Volt Pricing, Ordering Process
2010-07-26

DETROIT &#8211; On Tues., July 27 at 12:00 p.m. ET, Joel Ewanick, vice president of U.S. marketing &#8211; General Motors Co., will announce pricing and ordering details for the 2011 Chevrolet Volt at the Plug-In 2010 conference in San Jose, Calif. Deliveries of the Volt will begin later this year at participating Chevrolet dealers in launch markets.

A press release providing full details on the order process and pricing will go live on media.gm.com at 12:00 p.m. ET.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/26/breaking-general-motors-to-announce-chevy-volt-pricing-ordering/

 

[dump]

I just looked at the article and my first thought was, "why is a prius in the picture." Looked a little closer and it was a volt. I recall concept pictures of the car that looked nothing like a prius.

 

[jimmydean]

I just looked at the article and my first thought was, "why is a prius in the picture." Looked a little closer and it was a volt. I recall concept pictures of the car that looked nothing like a prius.

It looked more like a 4 door Camaro.

Concept:

Reality:

Nice execution, GM.

 

[IH8Rice]

$41k....wooooweee

General Motors' recently hired vice-president for sales and marketing Joel Ewanick took the stage at the Plug-In 2010 conference in San Jose, CA today and finally revealed that the 2011 Chevrolet Volt will have a base price of $41,000 (including a $720 destination charge) before federal and state tax incentives. While GM hasn't gone as aggressive as most people had hoped on the sticker price, the real deal appears to be the $350 per month for 36 months lease. That matches the monthly payment that Nissan is charging for the Leaf EV.

The effective purchase price of the Volt will be cut to $33,500 with a $7,500 federal tax credit (hence the asterisk in the title), but buyers will have to finance the $41,000 and get the credit back on their next tax return. Lease customers will have the credit factored in to their payment. The Volt lease requires a $2,500 down payment (vs $2,000 for the Leaf), but GM is including a clause in the lease contract that allows leasers to buy the car at the end of their term so that the automaker don't have another standoff with customers like it did with the all-electric EV1.

 

[dan-o]

I'd let my wife hit it.

 

[jimmydean]

Looks like I'm going to suck it up and just buy the Empulse. After reviewing available battery options, to get anything near the specs of the 10.0 would cost about $9600 for the battery pack alone and it would be more than twice the size. For about $10k after rebates and tax credits, it's better to go turn key.

So whatever voodoo magic they have going on over there at Brammo, I'm buying it.

 

[IH8Rice]

I'd let my wife hit it.

shes just gotta wait 3 years after they are actually released

 

[dump]

Nice execution, GM.

I guess the concept was really only there to sell the idea. The similarity of the final product to the concept appears solely cosmetic... if you'll even give it that.

 

[jimmydean]

I guess the concept was really only there to sell the idea. The similarity of the final product to the concept appears solely cosmetic... if you'll even give it that.

To me the concept looks considerably larger. I haven't looked at specs, but based on the pictures it looks like you are going from a large passenger car to economy class.

Imagine putting a deposit down on what you are sold as a Cadillac only to be delivered an Aveo for the same price (or more).

 

[IH8Rice]

To me the concept looks considerably larger. I haven't looked at specs, but based on the pictures it looks like you are going from a large passenger car to economy class.

Imagine putting a deposit down on what you are sold as a Cadillac only to be delivered an Aveo for the same price (or more).

its just a concept car. production cars only share a few traits if any with the concept cars. they never tried to market it as a giant car like that after official word was given that they are going into production.
since they built their first prototype, its always been the size of a mid-size sedan. they first used Malibus and then Cruze's for their test mules.

concept:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/chevy-volt/

production:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2011-chevy-volt/

 

[jimmydean]

Even the Malibu seems a lot bigger than production. A Malibu (wife had a 2000) is a far cry from a Prius. Guess I will have to see it in person.

On a better note:
I just confirmed the Empulse is eligible for $1,069 in state tax credit, and 10% from the feds. So as an Oregon resident, I am looking at about $11,500 total for the 10.0. Damn, can't wait to ride this thing!

 

[IH8Rice]

Even the Malibu seems a lot bigger than production. A Malibu (wife had a 2000) is a far cry from a Prius. Guess I will have to see it in person.

On a better note:
I just confirmed the Empulse is eligible for $1,069 in state tax credit, and 10% from the feds. So as an Oregon resident, I am looking at about $11,500 total for the 10.0. Damn, can't wait to ride this thing!

the older Malibus were honestly junk. the newer ones are much larger and built a lot better than the two previous model years. the new Malibu is bigger than the Volt which is really just a electric Cruze IIRC.



is that tax credit right off the ticket price or do you get it back with your tax refund?

 

[jimmydean]

the older Malibus were honestly junk. the newer ones are much larger and built a lot better than the two previous model years. the new Malibu is bigger than the Volt which is really just a electric Cruze IIRC.



is that tax credit right off the ticket price or do you get it back with your tax refund?

Yes, the Malibu was junk. I hated that car from about year 1 on. The intake manifold gasket leaked antifreeze into the cylinders. At 45k and 80k it was covered. I spent $2k to fix it the final time before trading it in with 120k for the Corolla. I limped it to the dealership and was happy they gave me a grand for that pile.

The tax credit goes on next years return for both state and fed it looks like. So I will end up spending about $13k for it out the door. If it's half the bike they are hyping, it's worth it. Upgrade the brakes and suspension and it should be a whole lot of fun for pennies a charge.

 

[buildyourown]

Who wants to bet the Volt will be a flop. As much as I love the idea of being all electric, I'm betting GM can figure out how to F this up. If the Leaf comes to full market, there will be no competition.

 

[IH8Rice]

The tax credit goes on next years return for both state and fed it looks like. So I will end up spending about $13k for it out the door. If it's half the bike they are hyping, it's worth it. Upgrade the brakes and suspension and it should be a whole lot of fun for pennies a charge.

cool, thats what i thought

Who wants to bet the Volt will be a flop. As much as I love the idea of being all electric, I'm betting GM can figure out how to F this up. If the Leaf comes to full market, there will be no competition.

i agree

 

[Toshi]

Speaking of failboat, Aptera and ZAP both failed to finish the final 100 mile (for their class) race at the Progressive Automotive X Prize competition today.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/07/automotive-x-prize-some-teams-fail-to-finish-the-final-race.html

In a staggered start, RaceAbout, a university team from Helsinki, Finland, set the pace in their beige sports car driven by student engineer Tuomo Kinnunen. They were followed by the green egg-shaped Li-ion Motors Wave; the Aptera and ZAP Alias three-wheelers; and the tiny open TW4XP trike.

Raceabout, Li-ion, and Zap employed a go-for-broke strategy, since the race was not an elimination event, each attempting to hold just under 70 mph, feeling confident after the range event last week. The strategy paid off for RaceAbout and Li-ion, but not for ZAP, whose battery charge ran out 2 miles short of the finish. Aptera suffered an electronic glitch (possibly a result of overcharging from regenerative braking, according to X Prize officials), after about 35 miles. Li-ion and ZAP drafted each other and exchanged leads, before ZAP&#8217;s batteries ran dry.

Final results to come tomorrow after charging tonight verifies that less than 100 MPGe was used in this final 100 miles x 45-70 mph race.

 

[Toshi]

Non-failboat: Nissan Leaf battery warranty to match that of the Chevy Volt at 8 yrs/100k miles. Not bad, not bad.

 

[jimmydean]

The specs I saw on the Empulse is 3k charges. So roughly 30k miles, not too bad for a bike. 10 sets of tires, 2 chain kits and a new pack every 4 years? I can live with that.

Average savings over 4 years vs. my old R1:
1000 gallons of 92 octane @ $3.25/per = $3250
10 oil/filter changes @ $35/per = $350

The bike has nearly paid for itself when the pack is replaced. I need to crunch the numbers on energy cost/consumption over the same 4 year span, but I am guessing it's minimal in comparison.

<edit> 8,000 miles a year at 100 miles per charge = 80 charges a year
80 charges at 10kWh = 800kWh
800kWh @ $0.09/kWh (per my Pacific Power statement this month) = $72 a year


$288 over 4 years of energy cost vs. $3600 for gas/oil in the R1.

Lol

 

[Toshi]

How did you get 3000 gallons from 30k miles? Even a R1 has to get more like 30-35 mpg, not 10 mpg.

 

[jimmydean]

How did you get 3000 gallons from 30k miles? Even a R1 has to get more like 30-35 mpg, not 10 mpg.

Damn, I knew that sounded high. My R1 was 27mpg average when I rode like I stole it on the way to/from work. I rounded to 30mpg. Still a $3200 savings over the life of the pack.

 

[Toshi]

... and in 2015 pack technology will no doubt be much better. I think the math for the Empulse adds up, and would love to add one to the stable. It'll have to wait until after a house, garage, and a Nissan Leaf make its way into my hands first, so at least 2014 for me.

 

[Toshi]

Speaking of failboat, Aptera and ZAP both failed to finish the final 100 mile (for their class) race at the Progressive Automotive X Prize competition today.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/07/automotive-x-prize-some-teams-fail-to-finish-the-final-race.html

Final results to come tomorrow after charging tonight verifies that less than 100 MPGe was used in this final 100 miles x 45-70 mph race.

Aptera and Zap's failures were apparently brushed under the table as they're into the Verification stage, the final stage of the X Prize. Either that, or Autoblog's reporting is a day behind that of Consumer Reports.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/28/automotive-x-prize-finalists-announced-x-tracer-now-last-team/

Ladies and gentlemen, meet your finalists for the Automotive X-Prize:

Mainstream Class
Edison2, Very Light Car (team name, car name)

Alternative Class &#8211; Tandem
X-Tracer, E-Tracer

Alternative Class &#8211; Side-by-Side
Aptera, Aptera 2e
Li-ion Motors, Wave II
RaceAbout Association, RaceAbout
TW4XP, TW4XP
ZAP, Alias

These are the cars that have passed all the on-track testing at the Michigan International Speedway this summer and those that will now move into the Validation Stage at the Argonne National Lab next month. As you can see, X-Tracer has joined Edison2 as a team with no one but themselves to beat, which means that these two teams are just a few in-lab tests and one more road event away from earning the $2.5 million or $5 million prize money, respectively, on September 16 in Washington, D.C.

For the other teams, results from the lab tests, as well as the standings from the combined performance and efficiency event, which will be used as a tiebreaker, will determine the winners. For teams fighting against themselves, all that's required to win now is to meet the X-Prize's minimum targets.

The minimum targets again are 100 MPGe, 100 mile range for the alternative class cars, and 200 mile range for the mainstream cars.

The piles of fluid under this Edison2 Very Light Car are from ice blocks used to cool the interior on a very hot Michigan day.

 

[jimmydean]

... and in 2015 pack technology will no doubt be much better. I think the math for the Empulse adds up, and would love to add one to the stable. It'll have to wait until after a house, garage, and a Nissan Leaf make its way into my hands first, so at least 2014 for me.

Considering how far they have gotten in the last few years, or even from the Enertia to the Empulse, I would have to agree that it will likely be an upgrade rather than a straight replacement.

While it wouldn't replace the moto for 2 up or trips, it would serve at least 70% of my daily transportation needs. The only thing now is to make sure it fits. I expect it to fit a little small, like an R6, but for sub 100 mile trips, it shouldn't be an issue unless the ergonomics just won't work for my 6'4" frame.

 

[IH8Rice]

finally, a hybrid i can get behind

As expected, the Porsche supervisory board has approved the development of the 918 Spyder concept into a series production model. The 918 debuted as a concept at this year's Geneva Motor Show with a plug-in hybrid powertrain claimed to provide 78 miles per gallon.

The concept used a 500-horsepower V8 along with a pair of electric motors with 109 hp each and a lithium ion battery that can provide 16 miles of emissions-free driving from grid energy. The powertrain is not expected to be changed much for production and Porsche has not announced when 918 will be available. There has been speculation that the production model could cost up to &#8364;500,000 (about $650,000 USD), although if it comes to the States, it should be eligible for a federal tax credit. Even with up to $7,500 it still makes the Chevrolet Volt look downright cheap.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/28/report-porsche-approves-918-spyder-for-production/

 

[jimmydean]

Wow, that is a sexy beast. I'm not even a big Porsche guy, either.

 

[Toshi]

Here's one for you TDI hounds:

Recycling Gone Wild: Turn your VW Jetta TDI into a Smyth Performance G3F. Video at link.

Reduce-Reuse-Recycle is the tri-directive that could help us become more sustainable as a society. Soon, a kit for the G3F from Smyth Performance – a new venture by Factory Five Racing co-founder Mark Smith – will follow those guidelines, enabling you to convert a previously-enjoyed Volkswagen Jetta into something you can really look forward to driving. The finished product will be lighter, faster and burn less biodiesel than the original vehicle, offering up to 60 miles per gallon and boasting a very naughty top speed of 140 miles per hour. All for about $10,000 and less than 100 hours of labor.

It's a simple recipe. You start by procuring a TDI diesel Jetta four door sedan. Cut away about 800 lbs of metal, reusing a large chunk of the chassis, including the entire safety structure. The engine gets chipped, modded and moved from in front of the driver to behind. Add the body, seats, wheels and all the other included bits from the kit and voila! You now own a recycled VW that increases your joy of driving while reducing the amount of petroleum product you'll need to pump.

Okay, maybe we're making it sound a little easier than it actually is, but Smith is confident there is enough interest to make a go of it with a line of depositors already being formed. Despite deliveries (optimistically) planned for September, the original prototype is still under construction. The operation doesn't have an official website either – that's coming this fall – but you can follow the progress of both car and company on both Facebook and the unofficial Factory Five forum.

 

[jimmydean]

^^^ Good call, I posted it in the EV thread when TDi was brought up. That car is sexy hawt!