[Toshi]

I'd love to see a diesel hybrid (like the Peugeot mentioned above) on the market. The technology is there. The price point isn't. When the Prius does so well for a pretty reasonable price one would be hard pressed (e.g. Chevy Volt but equally applicable to a diesel-electric hybrid) to choose a marginally better product for much more money.

syadasti: Nissan's boat supposedly will emit 2500 fewer tons of CO2 per year of operation than a typical carrier. Lacking the denominator of how much it would emit otherwise I can't say how significant this reduction is, but it's non-negligible. http://green.autoblog.com/2011/01/03/video-nissan-city-of-st-petersburg-leaf-ship/

 

[TheMontashu]

I'd love to see a diesel hybrid (like the Peugeot mentioned above) on the market. The technology is there. The price point isn't. When the Prius does so well for a pretty reasonable price one would be hard pressed (e.g. Chevy Volt but equally applicable to a diesel-electric hybrid) to choose a marginally better product for much more money.

syadasti: Nissan's boat supposedly will emit 2500 fewer tons of CO2 per year of operation than a typical carrier. Lacking the denominator of how much it would emit otherwise I can't say how significant this reduction is, but it's non-negligible. http://green.autoblog.com/2011/01/03/video-nissan-city-of-st-petersburg-leaf-ship/

I think the price point wouldn't be hard to hit, diesels are typically about a 6,000$ option.

Marginal difference? are you tripping balls? A TDI is in the ballpark of a prius for fuel economy. Compare the milage of your fit to the one of the pruis, going from like 30MPG to around 50MPG, that's a 66% increase in fuel economy, that translates to like 80MPG in an equivalent hybrid diesel. While those numbers might not actually come out like that with a diesel hybrid you get the idea.

My 94' chevy with a 350 would average something like 10MPG combined, while my first cummins truck (a 95'), which weighed 2000lbs more would average 18.

 

[Toshi]

Your post illustrates why GPM is a more useful metric than MPG.

50 mpg = 0.02 gallons per mile. 75 mpg = 0.013 gallons per mile, or a 0.007 gallon per mile saving. Great in percentage terms, not great in absolute numbers.

10 mpg = 0.1 gallons per mile. 18 mpg = 0.055… gallons per mile, or a 0.045 gallon per mile saving, or about 7x more than in your "tripping balls" example.

Get everyone to 40 mpg combined fleet average* and I'll be happy enough. Hell of a long way to come for some vehicles, a short hop for others, while some have already surpassed that milestone.

* that's combined fleet average in terms of CO2 per gallon of gasoline. Diesel has more CO2 per gallon--see post #1960--thus should have a higher bar to reach.

 

[TheMontashu]

Your post illustrates why GPM is a more useful metric than MPG.

50 mpg = 0.02 gallons per mile. 75 mpg = 0.013 gallons per mile, or a 0.007 gallon per mile saving. Great in percentage terms, not great in absolute numbers.

10 mpg = 0.1 gallons per mile. 18 mpg = 0.055… gallons per mile, or a 0.045 gallon per mile saving, or about 7x more than in your "tripping balls" example.

Get everyone to 40 mpg combined fleet average* and I'll be happy enough. Hell of a long way to come for some vehicles, a short hop for others, while some have already surpassed that milestone.

* that's combined fleet average in terms of CO2 per gallon of gasoline. Diesel has more CO2 per gallon--see post #1960--thus should have a higher bar to reach.

My point still stand diesel is FAR more efficient per gallon than gas, and I think it's comical you find ways to ignore that

Does it have more Co2 per mile AND per gallon or just one?

As well, I'm just going to call bull**** on you're whole carbon emissions crap. You're still using fossil plain and simple, you can say you're environmentally friendlier all you want, but the fact is you're still doing the same destructive things to the planet, and keeping up the same old habbits.


Go take a look at your ACTUAL carbon footprint, produce from South America, or California, and the **** machines that comprise your hamburgers actually create more greenhouse gas than the cars on the road.

 

[Toshi]

My point still stand diesel is FAR more efficient per gallon than gas, and I think it's comical you find ways to ignore that

Does it have more Co2 per mile AND per gallon or just one?

As well, I'm just going to call bull**** on you're whole carbon emissions crap. You're still using fossil plain and simple, you can say you're environmentally friendlier all you want, but the fact is you're still doing the same destructive things to the planet, and keeping up the same old habbits.

Go take a look at your ACTUAL carbon footprint, produce from South America, or California, and the **** machines that comprise your hamburgers actually create more greenhouse gas than the cars on the road.

Ah, pulling out tired old saws, are we? You can eat a huge right-wing-talk-show-host dick, as far as your claims that I'm a hypocrite and haven't looked at the other sources of emissions involved in western life. You're out of your depth.

Back to the topic of diesel: Diesel is more efficient. I grant you that. A diesel hybrid would be more efficient than a gasoline hybrid. I'm not arguing these points. I'm saying that we probably don't have them on the market because no one would pay the penalty for the diminishing returns.

 

[TheMontashu]

Ah, pulling out tired old saws, are we? You can eat a huge right-wing-talk-show-host dick, as far as your claims that I'm a hypocrite and haven't looked at the other sources of emissions involved in western life. You're out of your depth.

Back to the topic of diesel: Diesel is more efficient. I grant you that. A diesel hybrid would be more efficient than a gasoline hybrid. I'm not arguing these points. I'm saying that we probably don't have them on the market because no one would pay the penalty for the diminishing returns.

Right wind talk show host dick? really???? Cause last I checked, I rode my bike to work, and school, and even the local produce spot up the street that has tons and tons of local produce. Not to mention the fact that I'm a vegetarian.

a 40% increase in fuel efficiency is not some sort of diminishing return, neither is the high resale value and the fact that the lack of an ignition system is more reliable

 

[IH8Rice]

I'm saying that we probably don't have them on the market because no one would pay the penalty for the diminishing returns.

educating dumb American car buyers on the efficiency and cleanliness of modern diesels would be a good place to start. the rest of the world has realized their potential

 

[C.P.]

What about DPM?
It seems to me that this needs to be solved before we deploy diesels in broad sense...and I dont know much about new diesel technology that cleans things up (Bluetec?), so whats the deal, is a modern diesel engine (tailpipe) as clean as has been stated here in this thread? DPM is a big health risk, I know this from an inlaw family member who has health issues that are related to being in trucking all his life...

 

[Toshi]

Right wind talk show host dick? really???? Cause last I checked, I rode my bike to work, and school, and even the local produce spot up the street that has tons and tons of local produce. Not to mention the fact that I'm a vegetarian.

See the second half of your post #1962.

a 40% increase in fuel efficiency is not some sort of diminishing return, neither is the high resale value and the fact that the lack of an ignition system is more reliable

That's the thing. It's the absolute number of gallons reduced that's important, not some percentage for its own sake. It's a diminishing return in the sense that it's asymptotically approaching a slope of 0. Zeno's paradox, if you will.

 

[IH8Rice]

34 years at the top of the sales chart. America still loves their pickups

1. Ford F-Series (528,349 +27.7%)
2. Chevrolet Silverado (370,135 +16.9%)
3. Toyota Camry (327,804 -7.5%)
4. Honda Accord (311,381 +8.1%)
5. Toyota Corolla (266,082 -9.8%)
6. Honda Civic (260,218 +0.8%)
7. Nissan Altima (229,263 +12.6%)
8. Ford Fusion (219,219 +21.3%)
9. Honda CR-V (203,714 +7.2%)
10. Dodge Ram (199,652 +13%)

 

[ridiculous]

$5 diesel this summer.

 

[TheMontashu]

See the second half of your post #1962.

I guess me not giving 2 ****'s about the enviornment, and just caring about what I eat, and enjoying getting around on my bike so much is better than you're half assed attempt to buy a prius.

That's the thing. It's the absolute number of gallons reduced that's important, not some percentage for its own sake. It's a diminishing return in the sense that it's asymptotically approaching a slope of 0. Zeno's paradox, if you will.

ummmm aplying a hybrid drive is going to do the same for economy as a diesel engine. Does that make sense? You're adding another drive system.....

 

[IH8Rice]

the Volt has a PowerMat built in to charge your wireless devices....Tesla has one to charge the car.

and Ford's great looking Focus EV.

Power for the stylish (oh, yes, it's absolutely better looking than its competitors ? unless you've got a thing for eggs) Focus comes by way of a permanent magnetic electric traction motor that provides 123 HP and 181 lb/ft of torque that sucks its will to live from an LG Chem-supplied Lithium-ion battery cell pack. Although we've no idea what the fuel economy / drive range will look like as Ford's still awaiting EPA estimates, we're told the "Focus Electric will offer a mile-per-gallon equivalent better than Chevrolet Volt and competitive with other battery electric vehicles." So, basically, they're claiming it'll kick its ass.
wners of the Focus Electric will likely recharge the car's Ford-engineered (who's LG Chem anyway?) lithium-ion battery pack at home on a daily basis, using the recommended 240-volt wall-mounted charge station that will be sold separately (for $1499 and installed by Best Buy ? probably not including any additional electrical work you might need to install a 240-volt line to your garage) or the 120-volt convenience cord that comes with the vehicle. Using the 240-volt wall-mounted charger, the Focus is capable of fully recharging in three to four hours -? that's half the time of the Nissan Leaf. The Focus Electric offers something called "value charging," powered by Microsoft, to help owners in the U.S. charge their vehicles at the cheapest utility rates and thereby helping to lower the cost of ownership.

http://jalopnik.com/5727811/ford-focus-electric-will-kick-the-chevy-volts-ass

 

[DaveW]

That Ford Focus has more than a few hints of Aston Martin in it's front end styling.

 

[IH8Rice]

That Ford Focus has more than a few hints of Aston Martin in it's front end styling.

very much so. Ford still has their paws in their business

 

[ridiculous]

Toshi, do you follow f1 at all? If so I would be curious to hear your thoughts about the new 2013 engine regulations and F1's push to go a bit "greener". Don't want to hijack your thread but I'd like to hear to opinion of someone unbiased and seriously in to green tech.

 

[Toshi]

Toshi, do you follow f1 at all? If so I would be curious to hear your thoughts about the new 2013 engine regulations and F1's push to go a bit "greener". Don't want to hijack your thread but I'd like to hear to opinion of someone unbiased and seriously in to green tech.

I heard something about a common engine for WRC and F1, a turbo 4-banger? Eh, so far removed from production technology anyway...

 

[Toshi]

Engadget drives the GM EN-V

Its specs are easy to remember -- if you dig metric, at least: 500kg weight, 50km range, and 50km/h maximum speed. Things are a little less symmetrical in imperial: 1,100lbs, 31 miles, and 31mph. It seats two, has no suspension (other than the rubber in the tires and the padding in the seats), but we still haven't mentioned the best part: the networking.

The cars can talk to each other, and not just to say "Hey." It's more like "Get out of my way," with one car being able to automatically brake and avoid another. They can also say "Follow me," a practice called platooning with one car automatically (and safely) running in the tracks of the other.

I'm frankly surprised that these things exist and GM is letting journalists take them for a spin. Ideas this far out–and this is a far-out idea–usually don't get this much continued attention (recall the PUMA from last year).

 

[Toshi]

Chip Yates' SWIGZ team finishes 2nd in WERA Heavyweight Twins class and 3rd in WERA Heavyweight Twins Superbike class... on an electric motorcycle.



http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/gas-vs-electric-fontana-wera-racing/

 

[IH8Rice]

awesome follow up to the 918 Spyder hybrid

Porsche has rolled out a race-bred version of the company's 918 Spyder Concept at this year's Detroit Auto Show. Packing the same drivetrain as the track-proven 911 GT3 R Hybrid race car, Porsche says that the 918 RSR will bring a whopping 767 combined horsepower to the party when it shows up in the paddock. A total of 563 of those ponies are provided by a 6.2-liter V8 that revs to an atmospheric 10,300 rpm. Porsche has partnered its beastly eight-pot with two electric motors capable of 75 kilowatts of juice positioned at each front wheel.

The 918 RSR stores braking energy in a flywheel accumulator stationed where the passenger seat would traditionally rest, and the tech allows the driver to summon up an extra bump in power for passing or acceleration. The pilot can command the boost in grunt for up to eight seconds.

 

[IH8Rice]

new Prii (apparently plural for multiple Priususes)

2012 Prius V

The 2012 Prius V is packing all the hybrid goodness of the standard Prius but with 34.3 cubic feet of space for your stuff, 38 inches of rear leg room and the fuel economy most vehicles can only dream of. The V is five inches longer and an inch wider than the O.G. Prius with the same 1.8-liter four cylinder hybrid power source, so it won't match little brother's 50 miles per gallon efficiency. Sill, the roomy MPV will net 42 miles per gallon in the city and an also lofty 38 mpg on the highway, or better than most anything on the road. The efficiency quotient is helped with a .29 drag coefficient and creative engineering feats like a resin panoramic moonroof that helps keep weight in check.

Prius C Concept

 

[DaveW]

Pirus C concept looks awesome!
reminds me of Renault a bit though?

 

[Toshi]

I think the Prius V would make for an awesome vehicle if one needed to carry two rear-facing child seats around. 38 inches of legroom would make that cake, and still 40 mpg. I dig. The Ford C-Max Energi also announced this week would also be a good one for that use.

 

[valve bouncer]

Despite it being the most pointless car in existence I have been seeing a lot of CR-Zs on the road here. Guess Toyota feels they need to go after a sportier market as they have the "I've-got-a-Prius-and-I'm-gonna-wring-every-last-MPG-out-of-this-bastard-even-if-it-means-driving-below-the-speed-limit-in-the-fast-lane-or-indeed-just-be-a-slow-prick-fullstop" market cornered.

 

[olddogbmxer]

Want a real car to carry your stuff around in and get 40mpg that is actually fun to drive (plus cheaper than Prius V)- VW TDI Sportwagen

 

[Toshi]

Want a real car to carry your stuff around in and get 40mpg that is actually fun to drive (plus cheaper than Prius V)- VW TDI Sportwagen

1. 30/42/34 combined on $0.30+/gal more expensive diesel is not the same as 51/48/50 combined on regular gas.
2. Diesel has more CO2 per gallon, so that 34 combined on diesel is equivalent to just under 30 mpg on gas in GHG output.
3. Diesel cars still have higher smog-forming pollutant output.
4. It's a VW. Enough said.

If a Japanese company put out a diesel with good aerodynamics and established a good reliability record for that model I'd consider one. As it is it doesn't seem like a good overall package.

 

[IH8Rice]

you hate diesels, but would consider one if a Japanese company made one?
VW has arguable the best diesel engines on the market now...any market

 

[CBJ]

That Prius would be perfect for what I need but I would make no sense to change out the car we have as fuel economy is not a big deal with the few miles we drive.

 

[CBJ]

you hate diesels, but would consider one if a Japanese company made one?
VW has arguable the best diesel engines on the market now...any market

Best in what way?

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
VW has arguable the best diesel engines on the market now...any market

Hey - nobody is gonna argue that the Germans don't make pretty nice motors.

Now if they could get all that other $hit figured out.

 

[IH8Rice]

Best in what way?

best mileage, lowest on pollution, quiet, tons of torque, almost ZERO lag. Wards has given the 2.0T TDi best engine 3 years in a row
http://wardsauto.com/reports/2011/tenbest/winners/Volkswagen_dohc_turbodiesel_101216/

Hey - nobody is gonna argue that the Germans don't make pretty nice motors.

Now if they could get all that other $hit figured out.

they make better cars for the rest of the world it seems.

 

[CBJ]

best mileage, lowest on pollution, quiet, tons of torque, almost ZERO lag. Wards has given the 2.0T TDi best engine 3 years in a row
http://wardsauto.com/reports/2011/tenbest/winners/Volkswagen_dohc_turbodiesel_101216/

they make better cars for the rest of the world it seems.

You wrote any market but that looks like an American website. A lot more competition in Europe.

 

[IH8Rice]

You wrote any market but that looks like an American website. A lot more competition in Europe.

Ward's ratings are for all engines i do believe


...how about longest distance on a single tank.

Averaging just over 45 miles per hour, the team watched as 1,527 miles came and went. The 1.6-liter TDI-equipped VW Passat BlueMotion used was a standard production model which features a lower standard ride height, Stop/Start tech, longer gearing and low rolling resistance tires. As two witnesses drove behind them to verify the attempt for the Guinness Book of World Records, the Passat rolled along to the tune of nearly 90 miles per gallon – much higher than the 64.2 mpg rating the vehicle carries.

 

[CBJ]

Just strange it looks like all engines the are in US cars. I am sure the Citroen/PSA have some very competitive engines. They have some high mileage diesel cars. I actually think they have also co-developed the mini engine with BMW which is on the list too however not a diesel of course.

 

[IH8Rice]

I actually think they have also co-developed the mini engine with BMW which is on the list too however not a diesel of course.

yes, they did

BMW builds the Prince at its Hams Hall assembly plant in Warwickshire, U.K., and designed the engine with PSA Peugeot Citroen.

 

[TheMontashu]

1. 30/42/34 combined on $0.30+/gal more expensive diesel is not the same as 51/48/50 combined on regular gas.
2. Diesel has more CO2 per gallon, so that 34 combined on diesel is equivalent to just under 30 mpg on gas in GHG output.
3. Diesel cars still have higher smog-forming pollutant output.
4. It's a VW. Enough said.

If a Japanese company put out a diesel with good aerodynamics and established a good reliability record for that model I'd consider one. As it is it doesn't seem like a good overall package.

1) what about a DIESEL hybrid........
2) per gallon or per mile, cause I bet per mile (not comparing hybrids, it's annoying as hell you keep doing that) it has less
3)but less greenhouse gasses......
4)better than some faggy prius

 

[TheMontashu]

you hate diesels, but would consider one if a Japanese company made one?
VW has arguable the best diesel engines on the market now...any market

Hilix!!!! I saw some mexican gardener with a solid axle 4wd one a few weeks ago. I offered him 4000$ cash for it. He said no :'(



More and more I'm convinced toshi is an idiot when it comes to being environmentally friendly. He thinks a prius band-aid is the answer, when in reality diesel hybrids should be the band-aid, and the real answer is getting off the petrol....


Try convincing him it's the truth though......

 

[olddogbmxer]

1. 30/42/34 combined on $0.30+/gal more expensive diesel is not the same as 51/48/50 combined on regular gas.
2. Diesel has more CO2 per gallon, so that 34 combined on diesel is equivalent to just under 30 mpg on gas in GHG output.
3. Diesel cars still have higher smog-forming pollutant output.
4. It's a VW. Enough said.

If a Japanese company put out a diesel with good aerodynamics and established a good reliability record for that model I'd consider one. As it is it doesn't seem like a good overall package.

In the real world nobody really cares about all that crap. Its not always about ultimate gas mileage and fuel costs. I would say what most people really care about is asthetics,performance, and what value the car brings to them. If you just want transportation then alot of this stuff doesn't matter. I'm a car guy so I want a car that doesn't look like it got crapped out of someones ass, has a great interior(VW-Audi way superior to the Japs), and has performance and handling dynamics that make it fun to drive which is another plus for German cars. I can load it up and tow my 4 x 8 enclosed trailer and still get 30+ mpg. Not sure what "It's a VW" means but I guess its some reference to relability but we have owned 2 dozen Audis/VW's in my family over the past 10 years and all have been very reliable with no major problems and a # of them had 150,000+ miles put on them. My other current cars are 1999 VW Cabrio, 2005 Audi S4 Cab and 2009 VW R32 so I guess that kind of says where I'm coming from when it come to cars.
I'd rather drive a 30 year old Chevy than a Prius.

 

[IH8Rice]

Hilix!!!! I saw some mexican gardener with a solid axle 4wd one a few weeks ago. I offered him 4000$ cash for it. He said now :'(

if you talked like that, i dont blame him

 

[dan-o]

"I've-got-a-Prius-and-I'm-gonna-wring-every-last-MPG-out-of-this-bastard-even-if-it-means-driving-below-the-speed-limit-in-the-fast-lane-or-indeed-just-be-a-slow-prick-fullstop"