[TheMontashu]

if you talked like that, i dont blame him

He was up the street from my friends house, the truck has a lawn mower and chain saw and trash cans in it, it had plywood going up like 4 feet past the bed, and was full of yard clippings. Gardener is the proper term for his vocation

 

[Bicyclist]

1. 30/42/34 combined on $0.30+/gal more expensive diesel is not the same as 51/48/50 combined on regular gas.
2. Diesel has more CO2 per gallon, so that 34 combined on diesel is equivalent to just under 30 mpg on gas in GHG output.
3. Diesel cars still have higher smog-forming pollutant output.
4. It's a VW. Enough said.

If a Japanese company put out a diesel with good aerodynamics and established a good reliability record for that model I'd consider one. As it is it doesn't seem like a good overall package.

You mention the downfalls of diesels, but what about their longer life and lack of difficult-to-recycle batteries? I'm not an expert here but it seems that thousands of obsolete Prius batteries is overall worse in terms of contamination (of soil and rivers) than a couple more PPM of particles a diesel might produce of smog-forming pollutants, and if we worked towards cleaner and more efficient diesels, they might be better overall than hybrids. Just playing devil's advocate, really, but I am curious what you have to say about batteries in terms of their disposal.

 

[Red Rabbit]

Idea for 4wd diesel or gas electric hybrid:

4 pancake motors mounted into hubs of wheels.

Battery pack

Diesel motor running at it's optimum efficiency + large flywheel connected to generator

Motor charges batteries and or directly powers pancake motors.

Car only uses 1 motor at cruising speed and adds motor as power is required.

regenerative breaking

Could this work?

 

[Toshi]

More and more I'm convinced toshi is an idiot when it comes to being environmentally friendly. He thinks a prius band-aid is the answer, when in reality diesel hybrids should be the band-aid, and the real answer is getting off the petrol....

Try convincing him it's the truth though......

I'd be all for diesel hybrids, as I've said before... if they were on sale. They're not. Deal with it.

For the long term I'd love to have an electric motorcycle for good-weather commuting for me, a BEV car for the wife's commuting/errands, and a REEV/PHEV or at least access to one through Zipcar or the like for longer trips. I think that's a pretty forward-thinking stance, and certainly has more thought behind it than a bunch of monkeys venting their reactionary anti-Prius stances and bowing down to their German overlords..

As it stands I think the TDI crowd is barking up the wrong tree. As S.S. alludes to: great engine, crappy car. Ask MMike about his Jetta...

 

[Toshi]

You mention the downfalls of diesels, but what about their longer life and lack of difficult-to-recycle batteries? I'm not an expert here but it seems that thousands of obsolete Prius batteries is overall worse in terms of contamination (of soil and rivers) than a couple more PPM of particles a diesel might produce of smog-forming pollutants, and if we worked towards cleaner and more efficient diesels, they might be better overall than hybrids. Just playing devil's advocate, really, but I am curious what you have to say about batteries in terms of their disposal.

This is why Toyota pays a $200 bounty to recover any Prius pack so that they can recycle it.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/prius-battery-change-is-no-big-deal.aspx

Which of course raises a question in which owners of these cars are deeply interested: What happens when the battery packs that are fundamental elements of the Prius package no longer can store electrical power?

Make no mistake, batteries do, in non-technical terms, wear out. What happens is that they no longer can maintain the electrical charge that is essential to their ability to supply electrical power. But having changed countless batteries in flashlights and other devices, you already know that, right?

It is a fact that some of our first-generation Priuses are still going strong with more than 200,000 miles on their original batteries. A couple of cars doing taxi service in Victoria, B.C., reportedly have seen 300,000 miles and in one case, 400,000 miles on the original batteries with what’s described as "very few maintenance issues."

This is not to suggest, mind you, that anyone else will see these kinds of miles on their Prius batteries. It is only to suggest that fears of premature battery failure probably are unwarranted.

That said, there will come a time when replacement of the car’s batteries will be required. So you should know that first of all, Prius batteries are warranted for 10 years or 150,000 miles in California-compliance states and eight years or 100,000 miles in non-California compliant states.*

And you also should know that the battery packs are available from any Toyota dealer. The MSRP for a battery pack for a first-generation Prius is $2,299, while the MSRP for the battery pack for the second-generation cars, those from the 2004-2008 model-years, is $2,588. This reflects three price reductions for the first-generation battery since it was introduced and two price reductions for the second-generation battery. Naturally, labor charges, which are set by each dealer, as well as possible charges from ancillary parts that could be required, should be added to that figure. Finally, we assume responsibility for recycling all of our hybrid batteries.

 

[Toshi]

An answer to a question no one's asked...

 

[Red Rabbit]

So what's the over / under on Tesla ever bringing the model S to production?

 

[I.van]

An answer to a question no one's asked...

Reminded me of the Yike Bike

 

[Bicyclist]

This is why Toyota pays a $200 bounty to recover any Prius pack so that they can recycle it.

But I wonder what contaminants might be released in the recycling process inadvertently, or how much energy is required to recycle the batteries vs. using internal combustion in the first place (gas or diesel). Again I'm not an expert, but it is certainly interesting to think about all of the factors that might contribute to something being 'environmentally friendly'...at this point it is probably better to develop new tech even if it may not be green right off the bat in the hopes of it becoming more efficient.

 

[Toshi]

But I wonder what contaminants might be released in the recycling process inadvertently, or how much energy is required to recycle the batteries vs. using internal combustion in the first place (gas or diesel). Again I'm not an expert, but it is certainly interesting to think about all of the factors that might contribute to something being 'environmentally friendly'...at this point it is probably better to develop new tech even if it may not be green right off the bat in the hopes of it becoming more efficient.

These are good points, and this is why well-to-wheels analyses make sense. Here are two studies that I've written about in the past few years in this very (long) thread:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3509754&highlight=argonne#post3509754
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2858894&highlight=energy+lab#post2858894

 

[Bicyclist]

These are good points, and this is why well-to-wheels analyses make sense. Here are two studies that I've written about in the past few years in this very (long) thread:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3509754&highlight=argonne#post3509754
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2858894&highlight=energy+lab#post2858894

must spread.

I figured you had probably already considered these ideas, just haven't scoured this whole thread!

 

[Toshi]

Tim Stevens of Engadget reviews the YikeBike

We obviously can't wholeheartedly recommend that everyone go out and buy a YikeBike because it is, after all, a somewhat goofy and rather niche product that costs over $3,500. But, happy day for those who fit in that niche: someone who doesn't have a particularly long way to go; someone who wants an EV but has to charge it inside their home; someone who likes to support innovation; someone who, it must be said, has a fair amount of disposable income. If that's you, break out the credit card and get ready to have some fun.

And that niche will be expanding a bit soon, with extra battery packs that will extend the bike's range and turn it into more of a practical commuter. Even then the YikeBike won't fit into the lives of an awful lot of people, and we can't help feeling intense jealously toward those for whom it does.

Who knows, maybe I'll have one someday, heh (no time soon, however!).

 

[Toshi]

So what's the over / under on Tesla ever bringing the model S to production?

Perhaps more likely than I once thought:

Tesla Model S Alpha hits the road. Like software they're going to have alpha and beta stages before production.

Tuesday, January 18, 2011
Alpha Hits the Road
By Tesla Motors

Model S, engineered from the ground as an EV, is meticulously designed for superior aerodynamics, stability and handling, crash safety, performance and range. Before Model S enters production it will have been thoroughly tested using both computer simulations and test vehicles. Tesla will complete two vehicle testing phases, Alpha and Beta. The Alpha phase began in 2010.

While test driving the first Alpha, Tesla Vehicle Dynamicist Graham Sutherland commented: "The first Alpha is amazingly agile for a car of its size. It has great handling balance and poised ride with communicative steering. Just goes to show what combining a low center of gravity with a very stiff body structure can achieve."

The Alphas will be tested extensively in the coming months in all climates. As each Alpha is built, the driving dynamics will evolve and improve.

 

[Toshi]

Mission R framework porn:

More here: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/mission-r-chassis-photos-james-parker/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+AsphaltandRubber+(Asphalt+&+Rubber)

Hot hot hot.

 

[ridiculous]

I apologize if this is a repost but...

Were mall security cops complaining for heat/AC on their segways or something? Maybe im too closed minded but, WTF is the point?

 

[ridiculous]

More on the split cycle engine.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-split-cycle-efficient-traditional-combustion.html

 

[Toshi]

More on the split cycle engine.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-split-cycle-efficient-traditional-combustion.html

Very cool.

 

[Toshi]

1000 miles on a Chevy Volt in Consumer Reports' hands: http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/01/just-in-2011-chevrolet-volt-living-with-our-test-car.html

- 500 Wh/mile, which is pretty poor and equates to $2.40 for 25 miles of driving in the Tri-State area where Consumer Reports is testing the vehicle
- Between 70 and 37 mpg on strictly gasoline depending on length of trip

I'd still much rather have a Leaf and a Prius, or a Leaf and a stripper Versa, even, to make the price comparison entirely valid.

 

[Toshi]

ABG: Volkswagen brings 260-mpg XL1 Concept a step closer to reality

Specs in short:

- 0.9 liters/100 km, or 260 mpg
- 24 g CO2/km
- Monocoque construction with carbon fiber panels
- 0.186 Cd
- Diesel-electric plug-in hybrid:
-- two-cylinder TDI mated to a 7-speed DSG
-- 20 kW electric motor mated to a Li-ion battery
-- 35 km of EV-only range

I LOVE IT. I'd swallow my distaste for all things VWAG if this made it to the market. The holy grail of good aero, light weight, plug-in hybrid with a TDI powerplant... it's all there.

 

[CBJ]

The car looks amazing. All of it looks too good to be true.

 

[IH8Rice]

wow, that is hideous. i get why it looks like that, but that market wont. even with all it's aerodynamic benefits.

 

[CBJ]

wow, that is hideous. i get why it looks like that, but that market wont. even with all it's aerodynamic benefits.

What do you know about cars anyway

 

[DaveW]

wow, that is hideous.

Looks cool to me.
If it was on the market and I had the cash I'd get one.

 

[stevew]

the screen for the side mirror/camera is in kind of a awkward place...

 

[DaveW]

Just for you Toshi, a local guy is converting his bike to electric as has weekender geek project.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132349-KR-E-...lectric

Sounds like he's having fun with it.

 

[Toshi]

Just for you Toshi, a local guy is converting his bike to electric as has weekender geek project.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132349-KR-E-...lectric

Sounds like he's having fun with it.

I appreciate the effort that he's putting into it, but SLA batteries and a brushed motor in this day and age? Gah.

 

[DaveW]

That would be because he has a real (NZ) world budget, and not a desire to acquire a US Gov worthy instamoney debt mountain.

SLA + Brushed = cheap.
This bike is clearly just an experiment and a toy for someone in his back yard..... There's limits to how much any sane person would spend on something like that.

 

[PepperJester]

I don't care if i'd loose 20mpg, pull the rear wheel covers and I'd be all over that vw

 

[Toshi]

In the category of "cars-significantly-more-likely-to-see-a-showroom-floor-than-the-VW-XL1-or-Race-Tiguan":

Volvo V60 diesel PHEV

At the 2010 Paris Motor Show, Volvo's chief executive officer, Stefan Jacoby, confirmed that the automaker will launch a plug-in hybrid (PHEV) diesel in 2012. Jacoby later revealed that Volvo's first plug-in hybrid, to be based on the V60, would spew out a projected 49 grams per kilometer of CO2 emissions, provide up to 31 miles of electric range and boast the ability to fully recharge in five hours. [...]

Volvo's V60 PHEV features a five-cylinder 2.4-liter D5 turbodiesel, which directs 215 horsepower and 325 pound-feet of torque through a six-speed automatic transmission that turns the front wheels. The rear axle is driven by a 70 hp electric motor that receives juice from a 12 kWh lithium-ion battery pack

I would consider this, even with Geely now running the show.

 

[CBJ]

Not a bad looking car either.

 

[Toshi]

ABG: Volkswagen brings 260-mpg XL1 Concept a step closer to reality

Update: VW claims they'll build 100 copies, with Germany getting first crack, US second. I'll believe it when I see it. Even it if happens it sounds like a way to get A-list celebs to pony up $$$$$$ rather than have a true volkswagen.

Source: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/they’ll-actually-build-it/

 

[KavuRider]

Not a bad looking car either.

I'd drive that for sure.

 

[Toshi]

Aptera: a company great at making prototypes and excuses: http://green.autoblog.com/2011/02/04/aptera-we-need-government-money-to-bring-vehicle-to-market/

 

[BurlyShirley]

Maybe this doesnt belong here, but here's what Ive decided to do:


My truck is from 1994. It has 120k miles on it now... I had been lusting after something new, but Ive decided Im not gonna do it. F*ck it, Ima drive the thing until it litterally explodes. Dont care if I have to replace engines, whatever else... at least I can do that myself. Gonna make a game out of it just to see how long I can keep it going. Best part, its EGGPLANT!

 

[Toshi]

Ah, your purple Ranger, no? Good deal. Cheap is better as long as it doesn't (literally) kill you.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Ah, your purple Ranger, no? Good deal. Cheap is better as long as it doesn't (literally) kill you.

No airbags, no ABS, no payments!
(Getting 23mpg on highway)

Even if I bought a hybrid or an econobox fiesta or fit which would give me 35-37mpg, it still would cost me a lot more in payments than Id save in gas. Not even close.

 

[Toshi]

Yeah, for ultimate cheapness you can't beat a reilable beater. I searched for one but came up empty*, therefore we went with small, efficient, 3-5 year old cars for us with some degree of warranty instead.

* '93 Grand Wagoneer with dashboard and taillights both nonfunctional, for instance. I suppose I could have looked harder but there are so many poor/poorish people around NYC scrounging for the same deal that they just don't exist.

 

[Toshi]

Parts 1 and 2 of a 4 part BMW documentary series on the future of mobility. Don't worry, it's hardly an advertisement for BMW cars.

 

[Toshi]

I might give VW a shot, after all. Say what, you ask? Well, in my boredom this week I looked into the "green car" specs a bit deeper and found some things that shook up my personal little worldview.

1) The Nissan Leaf has only 31.1" of rear legroom. That's insufficient for rear-facing carseats, and I fear that I must prepare for such a necessity. Thus it's out as a choice for my wife's future car, just like that. (The Focus EV also will share this same malady. C-Max Hybrid/Energi would work, though.)

2) AWD + decent mileage is too expensive. The Highlander Hybrid and RX450h are pricey beasts. In their defense their whole segment is pricey, and 28-29 mpg is significantly better than the 15-22 of their peers. If we do end up in some place with lots of snow (CO or UT, perhaps) then we'll probably go MMike and buy a Katrinajeep or the like. Just can't justify a $50k daily use vehicle…

3) VW's recent reliability has improved. See below:

Furthermore, CR liked their Sportwagen, logged 36 city/49 highway mpg in their testing, it has enough legroom + cargo space, and it's relatively cheap as far as comparing new MSRPs. Oh, and it has a 6 speed manual option, which stirs forgotten feelings from when I used to actually like driving. Hmph. If you want to read the CR Jetta Sportswagen TDI review I posted it here:

http://cl.ly/15133w0K1F2Z3d1K3L0F

Here's the net result of contenders left standing as my wife's future car ~2013:

 

[Toshi]

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2011/02/cng-honda-civic-tops-nissan-leaf-in-annual-green-car-rating-book.html

The Green Book, now in its 14th year, bases its ratings on a weighted score derived from federal and state emissions and federal fuel efficiency ratings as well as formulas widely used by government and industry to calculate emissions at the factory, the environmental impact of disposing of and recycling vehicle components at the end of their useful lives, the impact of producing the fuels they use - and in the case of battery-electrics and plug-ins, the production of battery materials - and the public health impacts and costs of vehicles' emissions.

Thus Honda, which hasn't had a lot to crow about lately, scored well with the Civic GX despite its tailpipe emissions. That's because the Green Book team looks at upstream impacts as well as on-road impacts in evaluating vehicles and electrical power production can be pretty dirty compared to natural gas.

Conventional hybrids did well also, with the Toyota Prius finishing forth overall with 52 points and two Hondas - the Civic and Insight hybrids - in fifth and sixth place with 51 and 50 points, respectively.

The ACEEE's use for the first time this year of vehicle disposal and recycling data developed by Argonne National Laboratory shook up the listing a bit because the mining of nickel for conventional hybrids' nickel-metal hydride batteries is pretty dirty, environmentally speaking.

Thus the Prius dropped from second to fourth place and both the Ford Fusion and Nissan Altima hybrids, the largest cars on the "greenest" list last year, dropped off to top dozen for 2011.

Diesels continued to fall just short of the top dozen list; their exceptional fuel economy has been unable to overcome the impact of emissions which, while cleaner than ever, still contain more harmful pollutants than gasoline emissions.

And at the bottom of the listings: