[Toshi]

Civic HX would be sweet. Much like the CRX HF, they are less ghetto makeovers due to the lack of "tuner" allure.

I haven't seen many of them, but that's not to say they aren't out there.

pretty sparse pickings both on craigslist and eBay Motors. hmph. oh well, i have plenty of time and no real pressure to ditch the RX-8.

more realistically i think local availability will be the deciding factor. corolla, tercel, echo, yaris, civic vx, hx or otherwise, insight, old prius, anything decently small in size off the top half of the list below: they'd all work and be roughly equivalent in the grand scheme.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml

i think the next object of my obsessions should be to figure out if any of the cheap (ie, not Brammo Enertia or Vectrix) electric scooters have had their performance and range verified by 3rd parties.

 

[Toshi]

i think the next object of my obsessions should be to figure out if any of the cheap (ie, not Brammo Enertia or Vectrix) electric scooters have had their performance and range verified by 3rd parties.

the above is a "vee series", plans available from http://www.solarvehicles.org/veeseries.html. wow. i don't think anyone sane will be building and commuting in that...

speaking of sanity, 3D would like this page: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Electric_Scooters . while it has useful links for electric scooters it also serves to diminish its own credibility by airing nonsense such as "zero point energy" (perpetual motion/free energy in as many words) and the rare earth business hashed out earlier in this thread.

back to the original topic: there exist quite a few electric scooters that are being cranked out by Chinese factories, awaiting american shell companies to be formed to distribute them until the first lawsuit. portland in particular has a few scooter shops that seem to specialize in these offbrand makes. Spark-EV is an example in point of a chinese manufacturer with a limited US presence that's trying to get its wares out:

Spark-EV, LTD.
A Division of Wuzheng North America, LTD.
Wilson, PA USA

in addition to the two scooters below Spark-EV also offers a bunch of electric four wheeled vehicles. these "cars" all seem to either be useless (limited to 25 mph and not street worthy), vaporware, horribly expensive, or all of the above. but i digress. apparently the company has an outlet in Oregon, and i just emailed them to see who it is... if the stats are for real and local support is available then one of these would make a nice vehicle in addition to a gas powered car.


________________ scooter content below ________________


Spark-EV Zooom (yes, 3 "o"s) http://www.spark-ev.com/zooom.html

$3450 MSRP. 1500 watts, or 2 hp. 25 amp-hours of lead acid batteries. claimed figures: 6-8 hr charging, 500+ discharge cycle life, 45 mph top speed, 45 mile range. disc/drum brakes, 12" wheels, 310 lbs weight.


Spark-EV Tug. http://www.spark-ev.com/tug.html

$2950 MSRP, specs otherwise identical to the Zooom minus the roof and plus some funky-ugly styling. whoa.


Fun-EV scooters. http://www.fun-ev.com/

$2700 to $4400 depending on lead-acid or Li-ion +/- fancy charger. specs for the $4400 Li-ion version: 3000 watts/4 hp, lithium phosphate battery of 40 amp-hours capacity (http://www.thunder-sky.com/pdf/TS-LFP40.pdf), bank charger, 50 mph, 30 mile range at 40 mph. disc/disc brakes, 286 lbs, 6 mo warranty, delivery within 8 weeks of payment. but check out the sketchy terms!

This product has not been well tested and may not be safe. Use at your own risk. You will be receiving one of the first prototypes for this BMS.
Satisfaction guarantee: If you are not satisfied with in the first two weeks of receiving the scooter, we can arrange for terms for a refund. For example you can sell the bike and get a refund on the difference.

It is recommended that after a few months of use you begin to monitor the batteries closely and make sure they are equalized.

somehow dropping $4400 on this doesn't seem prudent, especially since it'd be drop shipped from china or taiwan with presumably no local support.


EVT America Z-20 Electric Scooter. http://www.electrictransport.net/shop/item.asp?itemid=63

$2500. 2500 watts, "four 12V 50A lead acid batteries". claimed speed of 45 mph, 30-45 mile range, but with quite the disclaimer:

Parameters for calculations:
Average weight of rider is 160 pounds.
Terrain is flat and road paved.
Frontal wind resistance not calculated.

ok, enough with the chinese knockoffs. they all seem to claim the same stats, but i fail to see how they can meet these rather lofty performance and range goals with cheap construction and technology when Brammo struggles with doing so at a much higher price point.

 

[Toshi]

here's a promising looking offering, from Yamaha no less. however, i can't tell for the life of me if it's a concept, a production bike for japan only, or something widely available.

Yamaha Electric Commuter EC-02. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/08/13/yamahas-2-000-electric-bike/

$2000. 30 km/h or 18 mph top speed, claimed 40 km (24 mile) range, 6 hr charge time.

i would buy this in an instant. seriously. i average less than 18 mph on my road bike, and i imagine most of you would as well in the hills of seattle...

 

[CBJ]

My wife thinks that looks like the Dumb and Dumber scooter

 

[Toshi]

a radio reporter managed to sneak (? or was allowed to take) a video of the Chevy Volt's development process:

http://jalopnik.com/376373/radio-reporter-sneaks-out-first-video-of-chevy-volt-electric-car

hit the link for the video. here's GM's renderings of the interior:

 

[Toshi]

here's another potential alternative personal transportation solution, a running powered bike. yes, you heard it here first:

video of it in action:

 

[jimmydean]

I wouldn't mind a hybrid Camaro

 

[Toshi]

I wouldn't mind a hybrid Camaro

but that'd work about as well as a hybrid Tahoe. oh wait, that's been done.



weight, Cd, small frontal area > *.

 

[jimmydean]

but that'd work about as well as a hybrid Tahoe. oh wait, that's been done.



weight, Cd, small frontal area > *.

It was the original concept before the Volt. Small diesel generator and Lithium Ion batteries. The Volt is just a 4 door version of the concept Camaro.

NOT like the Tahoe.

 

[Toshi]

It was the original concept before the Volt. Small diesel generator and Lithium Ion batteries. The Volt is just a 4 door version of the concept Camaro.

NOT like the Tahoe.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/14/lutz-chevy-volt-aero-might-have-been-better-if-we-put-it-in-the/

One of questions that went unanswered after the debut of the Chevy Volt earlier this year was the drag coefficient. Last night at a dinner with bloggers before the opening of the Los Angeles Auto Show, GM Vice-Chairman Bob Lutz provided a clue. While talking about the Volt he said that the production version would look different from the concept but will be recognizable as a Volt. When they put the concept into the wind tunnel it was a huge disappointment. Lutz said they might have gotten better results if they put it in backwards.

 

[dan-o]

Toshi you need a visit to LI before selecting a vehicle. Seeing how LI is filled with Escalades, livery town cars, and full size bmw/mbz (running off gas/angst/self importance hybrid technology) you may reconsider the econobox options. Even being used to boston drivers and driving a 7000# truck I find the LEI a harrowing driving experience (and I've driven everywhere....All of EU, thailand, taiwan, japan)

I'd look for a late 90's passat tdi. That's what I owned in EU and it was efficient, fun to drive (mine was tuned), reliable and hefty enough to feel safe blazing the autobahn.

 

[dan-o]

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/14/lutz-chevy-volt-aero-might-have-been-better-if-we-put-it-in-the/

IMO hybrid technology will become mainstream only if presented in cool, usable vehicles. The Volt may not be optimized for maximum efficiency but it's cool enough to get people who wouldn't be caught dead in the Prius lozenge.

 

[Toshi]

Toshi you need a visit to LI before selecting a vehicle. Seeing how LI is filled with Escalades, livery town cars, and full size bmw/mbz (running off gas/angst/self importance hybrid technology) you may reconsider the econobox options. Even being used to boston drivers and driving a 7000# truck I find the LEI a harrowing driving experience (and I've driven everywhere....All of EU, thailand, taiwan, japan)

I'd look for a late 90's passat tdi. That's what I owned in EU and it was efficient, fun to drive (mine was tuned), reliable and hefty enough to feel safe blazing the autobahn.

i commute on a 22# road bike, and currently drive a 52.8 inch high car... i'm used to feeling vulnerable. (also, did you look at the crash test stats? modern small cars aren't half bad!)

i've considered the TDI option, but it didn't make sense for newer VWs, and frankly i wouldn't own a VW out of warranty.

 

[Toshi]

IMO hybrid technology will become mainstream only if presented in cool, usable vehicles. The Volt may not be optimized for maximum efficiency but it's cool enough to get people who wouldn't be caught dead in the Prius lozenge.

if GM releases the Volt at $40k (that's what the rumors are now -- GM admin are idiots) and with subpar efficiency it will flop. plain and simple. if you're going to expect people to pay up more then you'll have to offer more, especially with things like the Aptera coming out for $30k...

what's wrong with the Civic or Camry Hybrids if you're looking for something that's in a standard form factor?

 

[Toshi]

here's a promising looking offering, from Yamaha no less. however, i can't tell for the life of me if it's a concept, a production bike for japan only, or something widely available.

Yamaha Electric Commuter EC-02. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/08/13/yamahas-2-000-electric-bike/

image: http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2007/08/ec02.jpg

$2000. 30 km/h or 18 mph top speed, claimed 40 km (24 mile) range, 6 hr charge time.

i would buy this in an instant. seriously. i average less than 18 mph on my road bike, and i imagine most of you would as well in the hills of seattle...

this Yamaha-Japan page suggests that the EC-02 is actually a production model. but where can i buy it?!

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/news/2005/09/28/tms-ev.html

Production model

•EC-02

As one aspect of Yamaha's corporate objective of "sustainable development," we are engaged in the development and market release of EVs (electric vehicles) that run solely on electricity as people-friendly vehicles with minimized environmental impact. The "EC-02" released in May of 2005 is Yamaha's second EV, following the Passol. This is a model developed to offer "design and performance that stimulates the spirit of fun in adults" while pursuing the qualities of gentleness, fun and ease of use that only an electric vehicle can provide.

the page is from 2005, and shows some weird concepts as well as the production EC-02:

clockwise from top left: parallel gasoline-electric hybrid, 2wd + stretch and shrink, electric (preproduction), and fuel cell

 

[Toshi]

no, it's not the Softride revived, but rather the IKOO transporter electric scooter. http://www.ikoo.us/products.html

$1200. 18 mph, 18 mile range, 6h charge time claimed. 600 watts (under 1 hp), lead acid batteries, Ni-Mh optional, 14" wheels, 70 lb weight, 6 month warranty, sold direct from the factory. somehow this one doesn't seem appealing at all as compared to the fabled yamaha above.

 

[Toshi]

this Yamaha-Japan page suggests that the EC-02 is actually a production model. but where can i buy it?!

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/news/2005/09/28/tms-ev.html

the mystery has been solved, and the EC-02 and the Passol were discontinued last year due to a battery recall and increasing battery prices:

http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/ev/index.html

(or if you don't read japanese: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/ev/index.html&langpair=ja|en&hl=EN&ie=UTF-8)

2007年9月18日
ヤマハ発動機株式会社

「EC-02」　「Passol-L」の販売中止についてのお知らせ

平素は弊社製品をご愛顧いただき誠にありがとうございます。
「EC-02」　「Passol-L」のバッテリーリコールの問題につきましては、皆様に大変ご迷惑をおかけしたことをお詫び申し上げます。

弊社では「EC-02」　「Passol-L」のバッテリーのリコールに伴い、バッテリーの改善に取り組んでまいりましたが、現状ではコストの大幅な増加が見込まれるため、この度「EC-02」　「Passol-L」の新規販売をやむを得ず中止とさせていただくことといたしました。

クリーン&サイレントという独自のセールスポイントで、お客様をはじめ多くの方からご支持いただいております当社のEV事業については、今後もより良い製品をお届けする事を目指し、引き続き開発を進めてまいります。

皆様のご理解をお願い申しあげます。

September 18, 2007
Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd.

"EC-02" "Passol-L" on the sale of discontinued Announcements

Our products are everyday Thank you for your patronage.
"EC-02" "Passol-L" battery recall issues regarding the great inconvenience to everyone that we apologize for any inconvenience.

We said, "EC-02" "Passol-L" battery recall along with the improvement in the battery market, as it is a cost which is expected to increase significantly to the degree of "EC-02" "Passol L-"choice but to discontinue new sales and as we.

Clean & Silent a unique selling point for customers, and many of the support we have from our EV project in the future and to deliver a better product to aim it, we will continue to develop.

Please, please understand that everybody's business.

 

[Toshi]

another diesel option:

1984 Volvo 760 GLE turbodiesel sedan. http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/car/631321869.html

$1800 obo for this example, which is biodiesel capable (new fuel lines). specs and mileage per fueleconomy.gov for the 1985 model: 4 speed manual (oh yeah). 22/28 mpg. 2.4 liter 6 cylinder, rwd. big inside: 95 cu ft. interior, 17 cu ft. trunk.

show me a station around seattle that carries biodiesel for less than $2/gallon and i'd consider this. at $4/gallon for bio or regular diesel it doesn't make any sense, however, much like the Mercedes.

 

[stevew]

you skipped the

bicycle.

 

[Toshi]

you skipped the

bicycle.

wow, what a kook. defending it in the youtube comments, too:

Wind resistance is the big performance negative (unless the wind is blowing from behind when you can even accelerate without treadling) however it is a little bit like going for the treadmill in front of the fan at the gym. You know it is going to slow you down somewhat but the extra air flow is actually a big positive in keeping cool and dry.
It is no-impact & a lot less stress on the knees as that action (like every other action of the Levercycle) is within the body's normal working range.

wind resistance is "actually a big positive"?! it's also news to me that people evolved to ride a stairstepper.

his bio via http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2055118.htm

About the Inventor
Rob Duff is a yoga teacher in Cairns, Far North Queensland. He has qualifications in human bio-mechanics, exercise therapy and musculo-skeletal medicine.

uh huh, "qualifications". right.

 

[rockwool]

i just don't think the TDI value proposition adds up at the moment when you include the inflated prices in the pac nw thanks to us pseudo-hippies/mileage geeks.

the Mercedes diesel option is an interesting thought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_300D

the turbodiesel was offered starting in 1981 on the wagon, 1982 on the sedan. (the non-turbo diesel available earlier is supposed to be horrifically slow: imagine a full size/midsize car with 80 hp.)

looks like there were also 190D diesel models, and of later generations, too, not just the old school early 80s 300D that i see around seattle. mercedes diesels of many flavors are available on craigslist, too, some at decent prices: http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/car?query=mercedes+diesel&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max&addTwo=

the catches:

1) mercedes parts are expensive, and specialized labor is as well. one of my classmates had a non-turbo 300 wagon from the early 90s and sold it after finding out that replacing the shocks would cost several $k.

2) automatic only

3) mileage isn't/wasn't that great considering they're diesels:

1988 MB 190D 2.5L turbodiesel
26/31 mpg, $3.56 to drive 25 miles (compare with $2.47 for that 2000 Honda Civic HX)

1985 MB 300TD 3.0L turbodiesel
19/23 mpg, $4.75/25 mi


doesn't add up.

1) Those were the rear shocks for the self leveling system, and that's on the wagon only. Also the shocks for the rear on those wagons cost quite a lot, but as for anything else you can get it at any good parts store. So stay away from the dealers parts and work shop and you'll be fine!

2) Automatics consume less fuel than manuals in urban driving. It's not until you get out on the open roads where ususally the manuals have the 5th as an extra gear, compared to the norm of 4 gears for the automatics. Modern Mercedes have 7speed automatics..

3) Get a W123 240TD if you live in a rural area.


EDIT: Forgot to mention that that Mercedes was the second to last Mercedes that was built at a time before huge greed finally swept over that company as well. There were almost no roof for the spending on development of that model, anything to achieve perfection. Not to mention that it is the last of the chrome MBs and that it was built in a time before they started engineering out the charachteristics of sertain brands. Today, only Alfa Romeo and BMW have keept some of their original charachteristics, other brands are afraid to stick their "chin" out..

 

[jimmydean]

Last time I checked, B25 was about $.80 less a gallon than dino at Tarr commercial fueling.

I still plan on making my own, or installing a grease kit from http://www.greasecar.com

 

[rockwool]

Last time I checked, B25 was about $.80 less a gallon than dino at Tarr commercial fueling.

I still plan on making my own, or installing a grease kit from http://www.greasecar.com

WVO or even SVO or biodiesel is the way to go if one only has a few thousand to spend. There are several biodiesel cooperatives across our country, do a search.

Except for Greasecar there are also Golden Fuel Systems, Frybrid, Plantdrive and some more that I've forgot the name of.

If you're only going to run SVO then there are two German companies called ATG (www.diesel-therm.com) and the pioneer, Elsbett. The cheapest way is to do it as the Brittons do; for 97litres of SVO they ad 3litres of an alcohol (or similar) of some kind. Check out the Top Gear episode on youtube where they explain it all.

 

[rockwool]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCEDES-300TD-WAGON-1982-SHOWROOM-CONDITION-94-000-mi_W0QQitemZ200212291425QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200212291425

For $17900 buy it now price and you have a car to keep forever, and you know it will deliver, with style too boot. What $18000 Toyota can you say that about?

 

[Toshi]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCEDES-300TD-WAGON-1982-SHOWROOM-CONDITION-94-000-mi_W0QQitemZ200212291425QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200212291425

For $17900 buy it now price and you have a car to keep forever, and you know it will deliver, with style too boot. What $18000 Toyota can you say that about?

with primitive crash test standards from back in the day, diesel at $4/gallon, and that thing getting 23 mpg on the freeway it's a losing proposition. while i understand that mercedes had their quality go downhill starting with the mid-1990s E class, i think that writing off all other makes of car except for MB prior to this era is ludicrous.

for my money i'd MUCH rather have a 2004 Prius than that thing. call me tasteless, but i don't have a hard-on for vintage MB wares.

lthumbsdown:

 

[BAH]

xtracycles and longboards

For all your green transportation needs :biggrin:

 

[Toshi]

as wiped out as i get commuting from north seattle to the VA south of town on a 22# geared road bike i can't even imagine how i'd feel on a 50# single speed cruiser/xtracycle, especially without the option of tossing it on a bus's bike rack if lazy...

 

[Toshi]

Automatics consume less fuel than manuals in urban driving. It's not until you get out on the open roads where ususally the manuals have the 5th as an extra gear, compared to the norm of 4 gears for the automatics. Modern Mercedes have 7speed automatics..

www.fueleconomy.gov

can you show me a car in which the automatic version gets better city mpg than the stick version? just picking some random ones, the manual is equal or better in city mpg in the 2008 camry 4-banger, corolla, yaris, accord, fit, and even in that weird old 1985 Volvo 760 diesel boat.

(iirc the 1996 Nissan Maxima auto got better _hwy_ mpg than the stick... yep, 18/26 auto vs. 19/25 stick. apparently true for the '08 civic, too: 25/36 vs. 26/34. autos often have taller top gears even if they have less in absolute count.)

 

[rockwool]

www.fueleconomy.gov

can you show me a car in which the automatic version gets better city mpg than the stick version? just picking some random ones, the manual is equal or better in city mpg in the 2008 camry 4-banger, corolla, yaris, accord, fit, and even in that weird old 1985 Volvo 760 diesel boat.

(iirc the 1996 Nissan Maxima auto got better _hwy_ mpg than the stick... yep, 18/26 auto vs. 19/25 stick. apparently true for the '08 civic, too: 25/36 vs. 26/34. autos often have taller top gears even if they have less in absolute count.)

Thought I had the numbers on a DjVu Viewer document with scanned old brochures of the W123 shen it was new, but it only spoke of the fuel economy without mentioning what type of gearbox. I'm sure I've seen the figures somewhere but can't remember where now.

Hit your linke and tried on the 1986 Mercedes 190, as the 1985 300TD only came with automatic, and both the diesel and the 2.3l got 1mpg better than the equivalent stick. The 2.3l 16valve got 2mpg better than the stick in the city.

On a side note, if you're considering them, it might be good for you to know that all 70-80-90's Volvo diesels had a VW engine in them, for scrapyard spare parts etc. I buy as many parts for my W123 from the scrapyard as possible. As an example, there's no problem to find automatic trannys with less than 150,000miles on them for around 150-200€. You don't buy stuff like that, or say a generator etc, at the dealers, or new at all anywhere. That's = $$ saved.

 

[rockwool]

with primitive crash test standards from back in the day, diesel at $4/gallon, and that thing getting 23 mpg on the freeway it's a losing proposition. while i understand that mercedes had their quality go downhill starting with the mid-1990s E class, i think that writing off all other makes of car except for MB prior to this era is ludicrous.

for my money i'd MUCH rather have a 2004 Prius than that thing. call me tasteless, but i don't have a hard-on for vintage MB wares.

lthumbsdown:

Volvo and Mercedes have been leading the industry, by far, when it comes to crash tests. When it comes to japanese and italian cars those didn't start caring about crash tests until mid-late 90's. That MB is lightyears ahead of any to me dear Alfa Romeo from 1995.

About the MPG, you will be running it on an alternative fuel of choice from a collective or one you make/store your self. As an example, if you make your own WVO you could go well under $0,50 per gallon. Probably below $0,25 , ask at a WVO forum.

To understand the quality of old MB's you have to remember that their prices as new were much higher than any other car, therefore a comparison to todays MB's is unfair. As an example, in the early 80's a fully loaded W123 280TE or 300TDT cost almost 4times more than the equivalent luxury wagon from Volvo, the 265GLE. Sure, that MB had a lot more options, but the major difference was the purchasing price that had to cover money that had been spent on development. Cars aren't made like that today.

This is a good example of a very fine wagon but not in showroom condition like the prior one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=230233949288&rd=1

Tastes are different, but something that can be aquried. The most important thing when looking for a car and trying to be as "green" as possible, is to not get a car that is too big for ones needs (that can be a hard one, I know..).

 

[BAH]

as wiped out as i get commuting from north seattle to the VA south of town on a 22# geared road bike i can't even imagine how i'd feel on a 50# single speed cruiser/xtracycle, especially without the option of tossing it on a bus's bike rack if lazy...

3 speed!
Just move closer to where you work and stop being a wuss

 

[Toshi]

Volvo and Mercedes have been leading the industry, by far, when it comes to crash tests. When it comes to japanese and italian cars those didn't start caring about crash tests until mid-late 90's. That MB is lightyears ahead of any to me dear Alfa Romeo from 1995.

talk is cheap. show me quantitative data on head injury, femur injury, etc.

 

[Toshi]

3 speed!
Just move closer to where you work and stop being a wuss

but that's physically impossible, as i'll be working at four hospitals.

 

[rockwool]

talk is cheap. show me quantitative data on head injury, femur injury, etc.

Talk is cheap, while knowledge don't come for cheap. The history of those companies are not kept seecrets and can be found on their respective web sites. I know for a fact that the Volvo 240 was the no1 car for several years on the what ever the name of the authority of crashing veichles is called in the US. Maybe they show their results of previous years, or if you could call them up and ask them about which car companies are the biggest contributors to automitve safety throughout history? They'll probably ad SAAB to that list.

 

[Toshi]

Talk is cheap, while knowledge don't come for cheap. The history of those companies are not kept seecrets and can be found on their respective web sites. I know for a fact that the Volvo 240 was the no1 car for several years on the what ever the name of the authority of crashing veichles is called in the US. Maybe they show their results of previous years, or if you could call them up and ask them about which car companies are the biggest contributors to automitve safety throughout history? They'll probably ad SAAB to that list.

hmm, the volvo 240 does look safe for its age (and lack of airbags):

19/26 mpg on regular for the 5-speed. worth considering, i suppose, but not an outstanding package all around.

the only old MB on www.safercar.gov (the NHTSA's crash test results website) was a 190E, and it wasn't spectacular, 3 stars for driver and passenger with no side impact testing.

 

[BAH]

but that's physically impossible, as i'll be working at four hospitals.

ugh- I feel for you man-what an awful commute!
look for a different job???

 

[Toshi]

ugh- I feel for you man-what an awful commute!
look for a different job???

:biggrin:

realistically i think 90% of my time will be at B (UWMC) or C (Harborview) so i should be able to find somewhere that works for a bike commute. capitol hill would be great were it not for the price, the noise, and the horrible street parking situation.

 

[rockwool]

hmm, the volvo 240 does look safe for its age (and lack of airbags):

19/26 mpg on regular for the 5-speed. worth considering, i suppose, but not an outstanding package all around.

the only old MB on www.safercar.gov (the NHTSA's crash test results website) was a 190E, and it wasn't spectacular, 3 stars for driver and passenger with no side impact testing.

NCAP, that's it! The 240 is a tractor with slightly more comfort, maybe less noice and seat for 5. As your lawyer I seriously recomend against it (I've owned one, dad passed it on).

The 190 is a smaller car and that is to its disadvantage. Genereally you have to deside if you want the safest (biggest) of viechles or the greenest, those things don't come as a package.

Found a little on crashes for old MBs:

MB inventions commercial:

Crashes of all sides and sorts:

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/crashes.html

 

[Toshi]

i test rode electric bicycles today.

eZee Torq. http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/ezeebike.htm#e-torq-ii for the local dealer, and http://www.ezeebike.com/products_torq.htm for the manufacturer.

new version:

old version:

$1735 for the new version with NiMH batteries, add $100 for Li-ion.
$995 for a used old version with a new NiMH battery pack.

specs: 350 Watts (250W for the old one) front wheel brushless hub motor. 700c wheels. 10 amp hours worth of NiMH or Li-ion battery. key to note that the battery is easily removable! 2 amps/hr smart charger. claimed range of 40 km on the assist alone, and correspondingly longer if you pedal. heavy: 21.1 kgs + 4.5 kg for a Li-ion battery (NiMH is roughly 2 kgs more).

so how did it feel? the ones that i rode, both the new and the old, had good off the line response. control of the assist was with a throttle type twist grip -- other models have pedal activated assist. the 250W version would propel me at about 12 mph on a slight uphill with electricity alone, and i could cruise about quite easily at 18 mph. this is no mean feat considering that the bike weighs a ton and the setup was extremely upright.

oh, in addition to the shop here in seattle there's supposed to be another large dealer in NYC (along with the third largest one in SoCal) so there actually would be local support.

i'm actually strongly mulling over the used one. put a real seat, seatpost, clipless pedals, longer/flatter stem, less ghetto handlebars on and it'd be a mean commuting machine with its built in lighting, full fenders, rack (useful!).

pluses over a gas scooter: no gas. has the rider doing something healthy. parking not an issue. removable battery could be brought inside to charge at work or home. can fit on bus bike racks. 10 amp hours is actually a fair bit of battery capacity, given that the electric scooters above have 25 to 40 amp hours of energy to power a much heavier machine for a claimed 45 miles.

minuses in general: not horribly cheap. battery pack will last 1-4 years depending on discharge state, and is $350? to replace. heavy, really heavy. cheap componentry, albeit stuff that could be swapped out easily.

thoughts, people? to fend of the inevitable question, yes, 250 or 350W of extra thrust more than overcomes the extra weight judging from the test ride.

 

[r464]

I have to say that you find some very interesting options. As I consider the advantages and disadvantages of commutes to distant locations, your alternative options become more relevant.