[Toshi]

i'm still looking for input on the electric bike above... should i buy that used one?!



new content:

big image not inlined: http://hellforleathermagazine.com/positions/buildyourown/images/elkaw-layout_05.jpg

too bad it has no technical details whatsoever.

 

[Westy]

i'm still looking for input on the electric bike above... should i buy that used one?!



new content:

]

too bad it has no technical details whatsoever.

Not much technical details required. You just need batteries, motor, motor controller, throttle, master control contactor, on/off key and a charger. All items that can basically be ordered from a catalog. Just make sure the controller can work witht he battery voltage you have available and that the controller and motor are sized accordingly. All wiring connects through the motor controller per the specific motor controller. I've read up quite a bit on DIY systems and feel comfortable with the subject. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Toshi]

how many amp hours are typically fitted to conversion bikes? conversion cars? has anyone actually tested range claims on these conversions? (the electric bicycle above has 10 amp hours for comparison.)

 

[Westy]

I've seen projects on very light vehicles like a VW bug with a 40-50 mile range use 50 Ah batteries, heavier vehicles like a small pickup with 96Ah packs. But voltage is also important. A car system will run multiple batteries in series outputing 72-122 volts. A 122 volt system with 50Ah batteries is going to have more range than a 72Ah pack running 50Ah if ran at the same power output. The main difference is that the higher voltage system is going to be capable of outputting a higher peak power. A VW bug with a 72 volt system may have a top speed of 40MPH and a range of 40 miles, the same car with a 122 volt system will get 90 mile range if driven at the same speed but would be capable of doing 60 mph. Going faster will reduce the range.

A simple way to compare different drive systems for similar vehicles is to multiply the voltage and the Ah rating to basically get a Watt*hour rating. Since different vehicles require different power drive systems are going to be an apples/oranges comparison.

 

[jimmydean]

I'm trying to get the details on this:

 

[rockwool]

That bike could be pretty cool for what it is. Can you haul it up to your apartment every evening for a recharge it without any problems?

 

[jimmydean]

Details:

78 vdc
109 aHr
AC induction
onboard zivan ng1 charger
single reduction - direct drive
goes about 50 miles on a charge
goes about 70 mph

I am researching the rest now. Thanks to Zack Norman for the info, now I just need to find the parts.

 

[Westy]

Here is a nice DIY E-Moto with some good technical details
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-build-a-72Volt-electric-motorcycle/

 

[G-Cracker]

I know you're leaning away from two-wheeled vehicles due to your traffic situation and I don't blame you. We're selling my g/f's Mazda since we rarely use it, and are going to share my car. When she needs it, I'll ride my bike or use this, which I'm going to buy in the next month or so.

Pretty clean burning, 2-stoke power, sips gas and 60mph. I'm all over this.

 

[chicodude]

I know you're leaning away from two-wheeled vehicles due to your traffic situation and I don't blame you. We're selling my g/f's Mazda since we rarely use it, and are going to share my car. When she needs it, I'll ride my bike or use this, which I'm going to buy in the next month or so.

Pretty clean burning, 2-stoke power, sips gas and 60mph. I'm all over this.

Word. I have parked my truck so I take my girls car when its too far to ride and the other 90% of the time I ride my bike

 

[jimmydean]

Details:



I am researching the rest now. Thanks to Zack Norman for the info, now I just need to find the parts.

Holy Crap!

Ok, here is the rough cost rundown:
AC kit includes motor, Curtis 1238 controller , control harness, Spy Glass meter, and fuse = $3200
Battery Pack = $3500 (for a good Li-Ion setup)
Magura Twist Throttle 0-5K = $50
Zivan NG1 Charger = $500
Roller off ebay = $1000
Misc wires, plugs, whatnots = $500

So to convert a basic roller to electric is $8750

A bit on the spendy side, but a lot more kick ass than your average scooter

 

[Westy]

Holy Crap!

Ok, here is the rough cost rundown:
AC kit includes motor, Curtis 1238 controller , control harness, Spy Glass meter, and fuse = $3200
Battery Pack = $3500 (for a good Li-Ion setup)
Magura Twist Throttle 0-5K = $50
Zivan NG1 Charger = $500
Roller off ebay = $1000
Misc wires, plugs, whatnots = $500

So to convert a basic roller to electric is $8750

A bit on the spendy side, but a lot more kick ass than your average scooter

A lot of money could be saved by using a DC motor and drive, not to mention lead acid batteries.

 

[jimmydean]

A lot of money could be saved by using a DC motor and drive, not to mention lead acid batteries.

AC Induction Motor and Controller Kits

These custom wound AC induction motors can produce an amazing amount of power and torque. Some of the benefits of an AC induction motor are a longer power band, higher RPM, regenerative braking, and easy reversing. This is the motor used in the E1 project. This motor can hot rod any electric motorcycle, ATV, neighborhood vehicle, go cart, or trike.

They are a bit more, but the performance is well worth it, I think. Also, if I am going to bother, I want to use a quality battery source. But you are right about the cost.

 

[Toshi]

Westy, thanks for the info. i didn't know that voltage also played a role in range. i knew it'd scale with power but didn't know the other bit.

jimmydean, the host for the first image in post #287 doesn't allow remote linking. please rehost.

That bike could be pretty cool for what it is. Can you haul it up to your apartment every evening for a recharge it without any problems?

that's the kicker: the battery on the eZee electric bike is removable and is easily carried around at 12 lbs. i'm going to go back to the electric bike store today and give it a longer whirl, methinks... maybe i'll bring the bike rack with me, just stashing it in the back seat of the car.



if i had an electric car/motorcycle/scooter it'd be a extremely huge pain in the ass to try to figure out where to charge it. run an extension cable out from the garage? what about if i needed to charge it at work, god forbid? parking garages and street parking have no accessible outlets...

 

[Toshi]

They are a bit more, but the performance is well worth it, I think. Also, if I am going to bother, I want to use a quality battery source. But you are right about the cost.

if you're going for performance then when settle for the poor aerodynamics of an off the shelf car? seems like it's a slippery slope.

 

[Toshi]

I know you're leaning away from two-wheeled vehicles due to your traffic situation and I don't blame you. We're selling my g/f's Mazda since we rarely use it, and are going to share my car. When she needs it, I'll ride my bike or use this, which I'm going to buy in the next month or so.

http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/27141/2827020860100726353S600x600Q85.jpg

Pretty clean burning, 2-stoke power, sips gas and 60mph. I'm all over this.

what make and model is that? how can it be clean burning if it's a 2-stroke?

 

[jimmydean]

jimmydean, the host for the first image in post #287 doesn't allow remote linking. please rehost.

if i had an electric car/motorcycle/scooter it'd be a extremely huge pain in the ass to try to figure out where to charge it. run an extension cable out from the garage? what about if i needed to charge it at work, god forbid? parking garages and street parking have no accessible outlets...

Fixed.

As for charge locations, that is a concern of mine, too. I know I can charge at work since I park near shipping/receiving. Running a cord from there would be cake. Home isn't an issue, so road trips are the only possible issue.

I want to look at solar as an option, too. I think I read somewhere that Lithium batteries and solar don't play well, but I haven't looked into it completely.

I was thinking of using panels for a faux fuel tank look or something.

But if I can get 50 miles in a charge, as long as I'm not gone too long, to work and home on a single charge would be plenty.

 

[jimmydean]

if you're going for performance then when settle for the poor aerodynamics of an off the shelf car? seems like it's a slippery slope.

The AC induction motor has an 8000 rpm max vs. 4500 of the Sepex motor (also has Regenerative motor Braking).

As for aerodynamics, I don't think the drag is too much greater than any other motorcycle.

Plus, something like the switchblade would be sexy.

 

[Toshi]

that's the kicker: the battery on the eZee electric bike is removable and is easily carried around at 12 lbs. i'm going to go back to the electric bike store today and give it a longer whirl, methinks... maybe i'll bring the bike rack with me, just stashing it in the back seat of the car.

on second thought i think i'll hold out until May of this year unless the owner offers a great deal on trade in/trade up to the Giant: May is the projected release date for the Giant Twist Freedom DX (what a name) that i posted about earlier in this thread.

edit: or maybe, as i pointed out not two posts above, good enough is good enough. if the used electric bike got the job done... i might offer the owner to rent the bike for a day with the rental fee going towards purchase if i spring for it, and try it out on my commute this thursday.

edit 2: holding off, after sanity has returned. i haven't mentioned it elsewhere on ridemonkey but i got engaged last week but have yet to buy a ring, so filling the coffers rather than depleting them would be a good thing (thus selling my car, my current auctions on eBay, etc. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtoshiclark )

Giant Twist Freedom DX electric bike. 75 mile range on paper, "twice" that of other electric bikes or so they claim. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/4253976.html

 

[Toshi]

while on the topic of electric bicycles with subpar componentry, here's an offering from Walmart, nominally a Mongoose:

Mongoose Cruiser Electric Comfort Bicycle. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5391437

$299.46. claimed 450W, although that's probably a peak not a constant figure. "up to 15 mph". "up to 25 miles" range with "normal pedaling". 90 day warranty.

i tried to call the semi-local Wally world to see if they had one in stock but their customer service absolutely sucks. more than a minute before someone picked up then i was transfered to a line with static but no one from the bike dept on the other end.



even if the Walmart bike represents the total low end of the market (brushed, er, non-brushless motor, heavy lead acid batteries) it still points to an obscene profit margin for other slightly more reputable makes such as eZee.

 

[Toshi]

much like in the electric car conversion world there are a million and one options in the electric bike conversion world. here's a recumbent that's actually designed with electric assist in mind:

Lightfoot Cycles Smoothie with BionX electric drive. http://www.lightfootcycles.com/smoothie.htm

price for the bike alone not quite defined on the out of date pricing page on the website, but looks to be $2-2.5k. the BionX PL350 electric drive system (350W, 36V, 9.6 Ah Li-ion) adds another $1700. a fairing is available for ~$350.

ouch.

bike specs:

Frame: Chromoly steel
Finish: Powdercoat; polyester, UV-resistant, baked-on
Number of Gears: 24
Gearing: 22 to 104 gear-inches
Shifters: SRAM X.7
Derailleurs: SRAM 7.0
Crankset: Truvativ Blaze 22/32/44
Bottom Bracket: Truvativ Blaze
Brake Levers: Avid FR5
Brakes: Avid Mechanical Disk 7
Headset: Cane Creek Aheadset
Wheel rims: Alex DM-24
Wheel hubs: Shimano Deore
Tires: Kenda Kontact 48psi
Weight: 33#
Rider Weight Capacity, Nominal: 250#
Wheelbase: 65 1/2""
Seat Height: 18-24"
Total Length: 88 1/2"
Total Width: 18"

about the BionX. info page: http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx_motor_bike_kit.htm . largely positive user opinions on a forum dedicated to one of its competitors, Tidalforce: http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/browse_thread/thread/6fd462000ec9acca/626dcf05bf900274?lnk=st&q=bionx#

it has regenerative braking! and choice of four assistance levels (25%, 50%, 100%, 300%). the info page is well worth looking at. looks swank. i'll refrain from quoting all their specs, but suffice to say that they have options for most everything: 250W to 500W [cali only], NiMH and Li-ion battery options at both 24 and 36V and 8 and 9.6 Ah).

a recumbent with a fairing and a BionX kit would be quite sweet indeed, but the price. egads.

some real life range data from the google groups thread linked above (levels 1-4 are 25, 50, 100, 300% assist):

I haven't saved any db data from previous runs on my bionx 350, but I
have the numbers for today:
41.1 volts off the charger.... 38.1 ending voltage. (about 12 miles)
used 3.088ah total. the li-ion battery puts out 12 amps average, 26
amps max draw according to todays run.
I just put a new front wheel on and forgot to put on the magnet so I
have to estimate distance. I used full throttle, highest assistance
setting and minimal pedaling up to 22mph max (avg 18mph).
I typically can go 22 or 23 miles using 7ah before the battery goes
below 32-33 volts... my cutoff. I'm 240 lbs, so my numbers are
probably lower than average.
When I use only level 2 or 3 assistance (and good pedaling) I can go
upwards of 40 miles or so.
- Level 1 = minimal assistance... hardly noticeable, but does help
some,... 60 miles or so.
- level 2 = Good assistance... the weight of the bike is gone and
uphill grades are flattened.
- Level 3 = Excellent assistance... Minimal pedaling gets you up to
18 mph... 25-30 miles or so
- Level 4 = Most Excellent assistance... barely pedaling gets you
22mph (with the speed restriction removed) the only weak point is the
44 tooth chainwheel on the M-frame. a 48 or 52 tooth sprocket will
probably give you 25 mph, but will cost range i imagine.

 

[Westy]

They are a bit more, but the performance is well worth it, I think. Also, if I am going to bother, I want to use a quality battery source. But you are right about the cost.

When I was seriously looking into doing an EV conversion I really liked the idea of an AC system. I work with AC servo systems at work, it is what I know, but the more research I did it didn't seem worth it. The cost was significantly higher and any performance gains could easily be overcome by simply using better batteries on a DC system. If you are looking to convert a car connecting the motor to a manual transmission will take care of the any RPM range issues and reverse but a $30 reversing contactor can handle that anyway. If you are talking about a motorcycle well reverse isn't important and you can really just use a higher gear ratio to overcome any RPM differences. It can be hard for someone used to ICE to really consider how high a gear you can get away with when your motor gets almost peak torque at 0 RPM. As far at the regen is concerned from what I have read it only gets you about 10% more range and balancing the regen braking with the regular brakes is not easy. In other words on paper AC is better but probably not the best idea for a first time project.

 

[jimmydean]

When I was seriously looking into doing an EV conversion I really liked the idea of an AC system. I work with AC servo systems at work, it is what I know, but the more research I did it didn't seem worth it. The cost was significantly higher and any performance gains could easily be overcome by simply using better batteries on a DC system. If you are looking to convert a car connecting the motor to a manual transmission will take care of the any RPM range issues and reverse but a $30 reversing contactor can handle that anyway. If you are talking about a motorcycle well reverse isn't important and you can really just use a higher gear ratio to overcome any RPM differences. It can be hard for someone used to ICE to really consider how high a gear you can get away with when your motor gets almost peak torque at 0 RPM. As far at the regen is concerned from what I have read it only gets you about 10% more range and balancing the regen braking with the regular brakes is not easy. In other words on paper AC is better but probably not the best idea for a first time project.

I agree after looking at it. My math was WAY off on the batteries too. I can build my own Lithium Ion pack (76v 144AH) for about $500. I would still want to use the nicer Sepex motor for the Regenerative Motor Braking.

What I am still looking for is a small diesel generator. I was thinking about how the Chevy Volt was able to run (at a very low speed) on a generator. Not sure about cost/size/power, but I just started looking.

<edit> Like this, only diesel (to be run on bio)

 

[Toshi]

I agree after looking at it. My math was WAY off on the batteries too. I can build my own Lithium Ion pack (76v 144AH) for about $500. I would still want to use the nicer Sepex motor for the Regenerative Motor Braking.

What I am still looking for is a small diesel generator. I was thinking about how the Chevy Volt was able to run (at a very low speed) on a generator. Not sure about cost/size/power, but I just started looking.

<edit> Like this, only diesel (to be run on bio)

ooh, cool idea. has anyone else out there made their own homebrew series hybrid? would you just stick that generator underhood with some kind of jerry-rigged exhaust running under the car?

 

[jimmydean]

ooh, cool idea. has anyone else out there made their own homebrew series hybrid? would you just stick that generator underhood with some kind of jerry-rigged exhaust running under the car?

I'm still thinking chopper!

Lightweight, Only 49LBS. (15"L x 13"W x 14"H)

Strip it down to bare bones and mount it under the battery pack. Remove the gas tank and use a standard motorcycle tank. 1kW output continuous that would be wired to a switched input on the on-board Zivan charger.

WOW, that might actually work!

Electric motor and controller = $1400
Zivan NG1 Charger = $500
Li-Ion battery pack = $500
2 stroke (epa approved) generator = $100
Misc parts and stuff = $500
Someone else's failed chopper project = $1000

Rough cost = $4000

 

[Westy]

I'm still thinking chopper!



Strip it down to bare bones and mount it under the battery pack. Remove the gas tank and use a standard motorcycle tank. 1kW output continuous that would be wired to a switched input on the on-board Zivan charger.

WOW, that might actually work!

Electric motor and controller = $1400
Zivan NG1 Charger = $500
Li-Ion battery pack = $500
2 stroke (epa approved) generator = $100
Misc parts and stuff = $500
Someone else's failed chopper project = $1000

Rough cost = $4000

You will want to check with the charger manufacturer to see if you can charge while running. The processor in the charger may not like what it sees as the resistance of a charging battery and and charging battery with a running motor are significantly different. Ideally you would want a generator that drives an alternator running at the same battery voltage, just like in a car.

 

[Toshi]

you've inspired me, Westy.

after my brief mental foray with the premade e-bike world in which i realized in the above posts that someone is making a killing off selling off-brand chinese junk, i'm now mulling over an e-bike conversion.

while a recumbent with full fairing would be really, really cool (someday), the relatively financially prudent decision would be to convert my current commuter, a 2000 Klein Quantum Race. it fits me, it has Ultegra, and i'm not so attached to the rear wheel that i'd cry when it would have to be replaced for one with a built in hub motor.

there are just so many options... BionX, Crystalite, TidalForce, completely homebrew systems...

helpful links that i've found so far:

Endless Sphere forums, with lively sections on electric cars, bikes, scooters, what have you
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/

an Endless Sphere thread on homebrew e-bike conversions listing actual parts:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3743

www.ebikes.ca , which makes and sells the CycleAnalyst, which is supposed to be a very useful bike computer that gives all manner of information on voltage, charge, current, in addition to speed and the usual junk

edit: when reading on the DIY forums like the Endless Sphere ones linked above it's amusing and dismaying to me how many of these DIY projects use horrible old mountain bikes as their base platforms. either these guys are skint (but they can afford expensive batteries?!) or are too old and crotchety to value aerodynamics and light weight over perceived less back strain.

 

[jimmydean]

You will want to check with the charger manufacturer to see if you can charge while running. The processor in the charger may not like what it sees as the resistance of a charging battery and and charging battery with a running motor are significantly different. Ideally you would want a generator that drives an alternator running at the same battery voltage, just like in a car.

Good point, I just sent them an email.

One option would be to divide the battery pack. Run 100% charged, or split 50% loaded and 50% charging off the generator. That would increase the range because you could run for a while, switch and run some more, then stop and plug in. Or just let the generator charge the batteries unloaded.

 

[Toshi]

eGo Electric Cycle Classic. http://www.greenspeed.us/ego_electric_bike.htm

$1550. 1500 W (4.3 kW max), 24V brushed motor. non-removable batteries, internal 5 amp charger. 24 or 18 mph speed depending on Go Fast or Go Far modes. 25 miles claimed range in Go Far mode with a 150 lb rider on flat terrain. weighs 130 lbs. batteries: 24 V, 34 Ah, presumably sealed lead acid. 6 mo battery warranty, 10 year chassis warranty, 1 year warranty for other bits.

while i'd trust this thing more than the drop-shipped chinese electric scooters it still has many outstanding issues, namely where to charge it at work. also, would it be kosher to ride one of these things on a bike trail? at 1500 W it's a motor vehicle technically afaik (i think the cutoff is at 750 W).

 

[stevew]

.

Oddly enough, I like this over everything else posted.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

have you considered cost oportunity of the research/time/effort, and funnily enough energey consumption of doing this research/project???

could you have actually surpassed the cost oportunity in finantial and non finantial terms of, say, an echo? :biggrin:

 

[jimmydean]

have you considered cost oportunity of the research/time/effort, and funnily enough energey consumption of doing this research/project???

could you have actually surpassed the cost oportunity in finantial and non finantial terms of, say, an echo? :biggrin:

I get paid for being at work, regardless of what I might be working on.

 

[Westy]

eGo Electric Cycle Classic. http://www.greenspeed.us/ego_electric_bike.htm

$1550. 1500 W (4.3 kW max), 24V brushed motor. non-removable batteries, internal 5 amp charger. 24 or 18 mph speed depending on Go Fast or Go Far modes. 25 miles claimed range in Go Far mode with a 150 lb rider on flat terrain. weighs 130 lbs. batteries: 24 V, 34 Ah, presumably sealed lead acid. 6 mo battery warranty, 10 year chassis warranty, 1 year warranty for other bits.

while i'd trust this thing more than the drop-shipped chinese electric scooters it still has many outstanding issues, namely where to charge it at work. also, would it be kosher to ride one of these things on a bike trail? at 1500 W it's a motor vehicle technically afaik (i think the cutoff is at 750 W).

At least the electric assist bikes you can pedal, if the battery dies on that thing you are screwed. Not to mention you should be able to out perform it riding a nice flat bar road bike. Actually if I am going to expose myself to the elements and put myself at the mercy of car traffic I would just ride a regular bike anyway. I don't see the point of a young healthy person needing electric assist unless actual sweating before work is an issue. If I were to make the jump to an electric vehicle I'd have to go for at least a motorcycle so I can flow with the cars. My biggest fear in riding to work is traffic, not as big a deal on the motorcycle.

 

[jimmydean]

After looking at all the specs, the static hybrid isn't going to work. Looking at the on-board charger specs, it take an average 8 hours for 100Ah charger @ 48v.

I'm still playing with numbers to see what the overall minimum Ah pack would be needed and if the generator would be able to handle it.

 

[Westy]

BTW Jimmydean you would also need to run a seperate battery for headlights and turn signals or a step down transformer. You can not just run one battery for aux equipment and have it also drive the motor. It can cause an imbalance in the batteries that at best will shorten their life span and at worst have one blow up. The best solution might be to find bulbs that will run at higher voltages.

 

[jimmydean]

BTW Jimmydean you would also need to run a seperate battery for headlights and turn signals or a step down transformer. You can not just run one battery for aux equipment and have it also drive the motor. It can cause an imbalance in the batteries that at best will shorten their life span and at worst have one blow up. The best solution might be to find bulbs that will run at higher voltages.

Most of the conversions use a dc to dc converter to step the voltage down. I was looking at some that use a separate 12v circuit vs the 48v or 72v "drive" circuit, but then you have 2 sets of batteries to charge. You can run them both off the on-board charger, so everything charges when plugged in with either configuration.

The problem I see with a separate 12v circuit is if it dies before the drive circuit does. Now you have no lights

After doing entirely too much reading, it seems the Chevy Volt is still a lot of smoke and mirrors. The idea and concept are sweet, but it's unproven theory from what I've read.

It's an awesome idea, but I think I am better off sticking to either biodiesel or E85 for the moment. Either way, I will have my alt-chopper built this summer.

 

[Westy]

There was a article in Newsweek I was reading in the Doctors office but never got to finish before being hauled off to be poked and prodded. I think the Gist was that all ethanol is doing is putting money into corn lobby, politicians and not necessarily less into oil companies.

Edit: Off to go see if I can find it.

 

[jimmydean]

The main reason I am considering E85 is the emissions. Oregon has quite a few E85 stations and with a flex-fuel setup, it makes for a nice option for a chopper.

 

[Toshi]

At least the electric assist bikes you can pedal, if the battery dies on that thing you are screwed. Not to mention you should be able to out perform it riding a nice flat bar road bike. Actually if I am going to expose myself to the elements and put myself at the mercy of car traffic I would just ride a regular bike anyway. I don't see the point of a young healthy person needing electric assist unless actual sweating before work is an issue. If I were to make the jump to an electric vehicle I'd have to go for at least a motorcycle so I can flow with the cars. My biggest fear in riding to work is traffic, not as big a deal on the motorcycle.

i agree on the benefits of having a backup pedaling system (or, in seattle's case, a backup option of tossing a bike on the front of a bus). besides the lack of pedals, the eGo is simply too heavy to put on a bus bike rack. the limit on the rack is nominally 65 lbs, i believe.

my reasoning for electric assist: there's no way i'm managing to average 18 or 20 mph over my commute even in decent condition on a nice, light road bike. this week, for instance, i'm averaging just under 13 mph on a 12.8 mi/each way commute. seattle is hilly. it's no joke. the difference between a half hour electric assisted commute with low effort hills and an hour (each way) commute with several solid 8 mph uphill grinds would be huge to me, especially given that i'll often have to be at the hospital(s) well before 6 AM.

i'm also fascinated by the technology itself, clearly, and the concept of applying this technology to the sparest, lightest, arguably most efficient means of transport barring a fully faired recumbent is very appealing. adding a consistent 500W of available extra power to my, what, 250W, if that, for very short periods only makes a good thing better.

 

[Toshi]

have you considered cost oportunity of the research/time/effort, and funnily enough energey consumption of doing this research/project???

could you have actually surpassed the cost oportunity in finantial and non finantial terms of, say, an echo? :biggrin:

bah, the ridemonkey and imageshack servers are running 24/7 anyway, and my own increased CO2 output through hot-under-the-collar metabolism is probably negligible.