I thought all of this was for Lawn Guy land which is much flatter.
the alternative personal transportation thread
I thought all of this was for Lawn Guy land which is much flatter.
If you take the same car powered by three different but just as strong engines; one car that runs on gas, a second one that runs on E85, and a third one that runs on diesel/biodiesel, their fuel consumption will be this:
If the gasser has a combined cycle consumption of, lets say, 10litres/100km, the E85 will consume 13l/100km, while the diesel/biodiesel will only consume 7-7,5l/100km.
That means that the ethanol powered car will consume about 0,6litres more, per 100km, than the diesel/biodiesel car of a fuel that is made primarily out of food stuff or rainforest. And that is food stuff that to a great extent comes from abroad. Don't you think that they're starving enough in the third world as it is?
As for my stance, I want to make you aware that these words are comming from a guy that lives in Sweden, a country that might be the biggest (per capita) market for E85 cars, and with two major car manufacturers that sell a lot of those cars. What's good for Sweden is ****ed up for a huge part of the world..
ah, ok. but even on a flat island what arguments are there besides UCI rules and cost against adding in 500W of extra assist? i'd love to cruise at 30 mph on flat ground, and can't do that comfortably on my own.
The E85 sold in Oregon is produced in Oregon from non-food grade sources in Idaho, Montana, and Oregon.
This is also for a motorcycle, not a car. Roughly 40mpg on E85 with lower emissions vs 45mpg on E10 (pump gas in Oregon is all at least E10).
<edit> Brazil has been running E85 since the 80's that they produce from sugar cane.
Nothing wrong with it at all. The electro scooter just put me into the WWWD line of thought. (what would westy do)
So I have seen 25hp air cooled v-twin diesel engines that are made in China, but can't seem to find anyone who carries them. Looking at the 10hp motorcycle conversion using a torque converter is an option, but seems rather gutless.
If you replace the standard v-twin with a 25hp diesel using the same transmission as before, it might still be a little slow, but would have a 80+mph top speed and 80mpg on biodiesel.
If you replace the standard v-twin with a 25hp diesel using the same transmission as before, it might still be a little slow, but would have a 80+mph top speed and 80mpg on biodiesel.
someone claims to have made it work:
http://www.ebikehub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=319
what an ugly looking thing...
It needs a 3 point seat belt.
Here is a Harley with a 25hp Punsun v-twin diesel:
This is what I had in mind, only I want to do a stripped bobber with a turbo. Average mileage is about 100mpg on biodiesel with that motor.
That is really good to hear! In Sweded our 95 octane is only E5, and I'm not sure about the 98 octane but I belive it's pure fossile.
But just a few percentages of ethanol in gas, or methylester in diesel, does tremendous differances for the time it takes for it to biodegrade.
Personally I belive (if I'm allowed to light a joint to this) an overall B10-20 in all fossile fuels, in every pump around the world, would be the most realistic compromise between what's good for nature, suply and without starving or cutting down any more rain forrest.
But for this to work these in a way that is best for the sustainability of nature, these oils have to be locally produced only. Strange thing is Sweden is, that the government dishes out money to the farmers so that they keep the landscapes open. This means that we have a ****load of unused fields only for the sake of beauty for the tourists. This is no joke! Strangely, the politicians haven't even whispered about this.
Brazil is not a country to use as a good example, but what happens in Malaysia and Indonesia is even worse.
That is super cool, that engine is chopper material!It needs a 3 point seat belt.
Here is a Harley with a 25hp Punsun v-twin diesel:
This is what I had in mind, only I want to do a stripped bobber with a turbo. Average mileage is about 100mpg on biodiesel with that motor.
What's a bobber, is it one of those "café racers"?
Bobber is an old school style chopper. Strip it of all that isn't required to be legal. Light and nimble. I also found a good turbo to use, now it's a matter of getting a motor and seeing how much I can squeeze out of it running B25 and home-made B100.
The nice thing about diesels is with most performance upgrades, you gain mpg as well. My goal is 75hp and 400 mile range with 80mpg. See how close I get after the E85 build (since it has a lot less work).
I feel there is no one source for fuel that will replace dino. The best recourse is reduction and alternative. E85 is an easy switch right now that doesn't require retooling.
I saw a Smart car on the highway yesterday on the way home from work. It was cruising right around 65 mph I would say and it looked sketchy!!!
It's a really small car and I would feel much better in it only in the city. It looks like an accident in that thing at those speeds would be rather detrimental to your health.
It's a really small car and I would feel much better in it only in the city. It looks like an accident in that thing at those speeds would be rather detrimental to your health.
the Smart car has decent crash test results, actually: http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/safercar/menuitem.db847bd57e3dc1f885dfc38c35a67789/?vgnextoid=c95df2905bf54110VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCRD&model=7473 (longest URL ever)
here's my tentative plan for electrifying my Klein Quantum Race (~$1500 at this point without wiring and miscellanea. C-lite = Crystalyte):
Replace current carbon fork with a sturdy steel fork, still 700c
Add a torque arm to this fork for good measure
C-lite 407 front hub motor in a 700c wheel (408 isn't available on ebikes.ca's store in 700c/front form)
72V 48A immediate start controller
Cycle Analyst DP model
C-lite thumb throttle, since I can't figure out how I'd mount or operate a twist throttle with drop bars
48V 12Ah rectangular NiMH battery from ebikes.ca
48V 2A NiMH/NiCa battery charger
Westy, jimmydean: thoughts on this spec? i'll consult with the ebikes.ca specialists up in Vancouver before springing for it, of course, as there's a possibility of going 72V if 48V might be disappointing.
Alexis: here's a paper that claims that electric bikes are more energy efficient over their life cycle than a bike rider on a normal bike because the metabolism of humans and all we eat down the chain is collectively less efficient than the bike-power generation system. link: http://www.ebikes.ca/sustainability/Ebike_Energy.pdf
Any links to said products?
How much is the battery pack? After looking at buy vs build, I am quite sold on building my own. What is the burn rate on the motor?
Links, man!
Links, man!
I think I found information at http://www.crystalyte.com/
If their data is actual data and not marketing mumbo jumbo it looks promising. Depending on efficiency of the system you should get the equivalent of a few hundred watts for a couple of hours. The one thing that bugs me is they never really state the motor power numbers. Electric motors typically have a peak power output and an constant power output, much like people. A good marketing ploy is to quote peak output. For example many vacuum cleaners say they have some rediculously high power output like 8hp. It might output 8HP during about .05 seconds of acceleration but the actual power while running is probably closer to .5hp. An 8HP motor is quite large, weighs close to 100lbs and typically requires 3 phase power at 220V.
If their data is actual data and not marketing mumbo jumbo it looks promising. Depending on efficiency of the system you should get the equivalent of a few hundred watts for a couple of hours. The one thing that bugs me is they never really state the motor power numbers. Electric motors typically have a peak power output and an constant power output, much like people. A good marketing ploy is to quote peak output. For example many vacuum cleaners say they have some rediculously high power output like 8hp. It might output 8HP during about .05 seconds of acceleration but the actual power while running is probably closer to .5hp. An 8HP motor is quite large, weighs close to 100lbs and typically requires 3 phase power at 220V.
I understand. But if you build that diesel bobber you will be worthy of my worship! :bowdown:
A good friend and I are building 2 alt.fuel choppers this summer to take to local shows.
The first is a Buell based chopper with fuel injection that is flex-fuel (runs anything from 94 octane premium to 105 octane E85).
The other will be the biodiesel powered turbo bobber.
The goal is to build low emission bikes that are fun to ride and cheap to build (sub $15k). After seeing the current offerings, it seemed like a viable business venture. Worst case scenario is I wind up with one of 2 cool ass bikes to ride.
<edit> The E85 bike will look sort of like this (same frame and same donor sans FI)
Hell yeah, go ahead and do it!After seeing the current offerings, it seemed like a viable business venture. Worst case scenario is I wind up with one of 2 cool ass bikes to ride.
<edit> The E85 bike will look sort of like this (same frame and same donor sans FI)
That bike above has the same look over it as those old 50's (?) beach racer cars (the type of racing they used to do before the ovals arrived). I belive they're called Stockcar racers.
Actually it's a lot like Potroast88's hardtail. Only I am using a newer XB style motor and retaining the factory electronics to keep the fuel injection.
His frame is also a one-off, mine is semi off the shelf (limited production with minor tweaks).
Here is a Punsun Harley from Germany. I need to translate the page and stuff.
http://www.dieselkrad.info/dieselmotorraeder/Punsun+Harley/punsun-harley.html
http://www.dieselkrad.info/dieselmotorraeder/Punsun+Harley/punsun-harley.html
everything available here: http://ebikes.ca/store/
$625 for the battery.
here's the power output in this particular setup (407 motor, 48V 12Ah NiMH, 700c wheel, 50A controller, 100% throttle, mph, N-m) of the motor via http://ebikes.ca/simulator/:
Passing on a road I found it to have quite a metallic noice. That was a non turbo though, right? A turbo will probably lower that noice.
Das diesel clatter:
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/1750168/harley_diesel_1
Do it man, this rules!
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/1750215/harley_diesel_2
Listening to it when passing by at 70 ish km/h it had quite a metalic noice to it, no? I bet a turbo will tone that down though.
Looking at the attached clips I found this one that has K&N style air intakes. Makes a world of a difference to the style compared to the other one.
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2761525/diesel_harley_kipor_motorrad_e_glide
Is it a bird? Noo! Is it a plane? Nooo! It's a BOAT.
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2967638/enfield_diesel_505_motorrad
Sanjuro, go ahead with that bike, it's cool!
With a front wheel motor could traction become an issue? Especially on a climb. Applying power in a turn would certainly be sketchy.
What, who changed your avatar? Damn Jewish conspiracist.did you just call me sanjuro?
i don't imagine there'd be much problem with traction as the ground will be exhibiting a hefty normal force
. the wheel/hub setup weighs a solid 15 lbs, and i'll probably run a 700c x 25c or maybe even a 30c. there would be plenty of clearance as i'm thinking of running a Surly Cross fork.http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPFKCROSS/FK0110
since i'm massacring the road bike anyway i figured why not go one step further and run a 26" wheel up front.
disadvantages:
1) committing sacrilege.
2) would look funny
3) possible clearance issues with fork crown and downtube, although this would have been a problem with a 700c cyclocross fork as well
4) would have to run an adapter to increase cable pull at the brakes in order to drive V-brakes with drop bar levers
advantages would be numerous:
1) more choices of off the shelf setups, in particular with a motor winding with more low speed torque (at the expense of top end)
2) shorter lever arm = more torque via physics
3) cheaper fork options
4) axle to crown wouldn't be that much different (391 mm for a 26" tange rigid fork vs. ~370 mm for a 700c race fork), just about accounting for the smaller wheel if i stay sane/slim on tire choice
here's comparison of power output between the 700c setup and a proposed 26" front wheel setup:
407 motor in a 700c wheel, 48V 12Ah NiMH, 50A controller, 100% throttle, mph, N-m) of the motor via http://ebikes.ca/simulator/:
408 motor in a 26" wheel, 48V 12Ah NiMH, 50A controller, 100% throttle, mph, N-m) of the motor via http://ebikes.ca/simulator/:
and here would be the nutso/fun option...
408 motor in a 26" wheel, 72V 8Ah NiMH, 50A controller, 100% throttle, mph, N-m) of the motor via http://ebikes.ca/simulator/:
Don't forget that the HA gets steeper with a 26" up front. Custom built Ti frame solves that in a jiffy. http://www.tiarrow.se/ 
but it shouldn't change that much since the axle to crown of the 26" fork is longer than that of a 700c race fork, approximately by how much the tire/wheel is shorter:Don't forget that the HA gets steeper with a 26" up front. Custom built Ti frame solves that in a jiffy. http://www.tiarrow.se/
Toshi said:
the Aptera Typ-1: http://www.aptera.com/ or google "aptera"
available in California only to start out. $30k. both all-electric and plug-in series hybrid models to be offered. the hybrid model's efficiency decays asymptotically, with ~300 mpg at 120 miles from last charge. crash tested.
This thing looks cool . Looks like the thing i saw at Epcot Center 20 years ago in the world of motion, or GM expo !
today it was 75 and sunny. everyone and their mom was out on the burke-gilman (bike path), going 10 mph in low gear on their 20 year old road bikes. i'm glad they were out there, however.So how's the weather in Seattle?
Mahindra Scorpio diesel electric hybrid (prototype) http://jalopnik.com/378354/indian-mahindra-scorpio-diesel+electric-hybrid-suv-to-be-revealed-at-sae
looks like a mutant Musso korado or Mitsubishi Pajero?
here's a video of a very similar setup to the above. he's running a 700c hybrid with a Crystalyte 406 front hub motor, which is set up for one increment less torque/higher top speed than the 407 above. 48V, 20A max.407 motor in a 700c wheel, 48V 12Ah NiMH, 50A controller, 100% throttle, mph, N-m) of the motor via http://ebikes.ca/simulator/:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3995379778782687414
fast forward to 20 minutes in, and watch through 22 minutes. 47 mph! (in a draft) 35 mph without that assistance.
makes me think that a 407/700c or 408/26" setup at 48V might be all i need or can handle.
not the most elegant setup but it clearly works:
with all these options and no clear answer i think i'm going to take a road trip up to the ebikes.ca store in Vancouver, BC in a month when i'm free. i'd test ride some actual conversion bikes, see how big/bulky all this stuff is first hand, and hopefully walk out there with everything i need to whip it together.
amtrak fare roundtrip from seattle to vancouver would only be $50.40, and i could daytrip it in theory, and certainly pull it off with an overnight stay...
another option for converting road (and mountain!) bikes that's actually very appealing:
update:
the youtube link is to a video of the owner tearing up and down through a parking garage. it's loud! due to the chain drive, but could offer a more elegant installation in that i could retain the front end of my bike!
i'm psyched. going to look into this one further, as it seems the cleanest option as of yet.
update:
http://www.bike-elektro-antrieb.ch/startseite.htm
not all that impressive on paper: 24V, 250W, batteries from NiMH 9.5Ah to Li-poly 20Ah. range of "10-100 km". however, the gearing advantage, both from the pinion to the chainring, and in the bike's existing gearing would make it considerably more efficient and more torquey than a hub motor, i imagine.
a double motor setup being tested...
