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The Army Times Editorial (ouch)

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,558
15,785
Portland, OR
I don't read this mag much because of the slant, but this was a shock to see for sure.

Link
Editorial
Time for Rumsfeld to go

"So long as our government requires the backing of an aroused and informed public opinion ... it is necessary to tell the hard bruising truth."

That statement was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning war correspondent Marguerite Higgins more than a half-century ago during the Korean War.

But until recently, the "hard bruising" truth about the Iraq war has been difficult to come by from leaders in Washington.

One rosy reassurance after another has been handed down by President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld: "mission accomplished," the insurgency is "in its last throes," and "back off," we know what we're doing, are a few choice examples.

Military leaders generally toed the line, although a few retired generals eventually spoke out from the safety of the sidelines, inciting criticism equally from anti-war types, who thought they should have spoken out while still in uniform, and pro-war foes, who thought the generals should have kept their critiques behind closed doors.

Now, however, a new chorus of criticism is beginning to resonate. Active-duty military leaders are starting to voice misgivings about the war's planning, execution and dimming prospects for success.

Army Gen. John Abizaid, chief of U.S. Central Command, told a Senate Armed Services Committee in September: "I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it ... and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war."

Last week, someone leaked to The New York Times a Central Command briefing slide showing an assessment that the civil conflict in Iraq now borders on "critical" and has been sliding toward "chaos" for most of the past year. The strategy in Iraq has been to train an Iraqi army and police force that could gradually take over for U.S. troops in providing for the security of their new government and their nation.

But despite the best efforts of American trainers, the problem of molding a viciously sectarian population into anything resembling a force for national unity has become a losing proposition.

For two years, American sergeants, captains and majors training the Iraqis have told their bosses that Iraqi troops have no sense of national identity, are only in it for the money, don�t show up for duty and cannot sustain themselves.

Meanwhile, colonels and generals have asked their bosses for more troops. Service chiefs have asked for more money.

And all along, Rumsfeld has assured us that things are well in hand.

Now, the president says he'll stick with Rumsfeld for the balance of his term in the White House.

This is a mistake. It is one thing for the majority of Americans to think Rumsfeld has failed. But when the nation's current military leaders start to break publicly with their defense secretary, then it is clear that he is losing control of the institution he ostensibly leads.

These officers have been loyal public promoters of a war policy many privately feared would fail. They have kept their counsel private, adhering to more than two centuries of American tradition of subordination of the military to civilian authority.

And although that tradition, and the officers' deep sense of honor, prevent them from saying this publicly, more and more of them believe it.

Rumsfeld has lost credibility with the uniformed leadership, with the troops, with Congress and with the public at large. His strategy has failed, and his ability to lead is compromised. And although the blame for our failures in Iraq rests with the secretary, it will be the troops who bear its brunt.

This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:

Donald Rumsfeld must go.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
As I browse the forums daily, I see a never ending spew of armchair quarterbacks calling Iraq a mess....

A waste of US blood.... There's no reason for us there..... They weren't a threat to us..... We ****ed up their country.... No WMDs....

A continuous spew by folks who haven't been there, and base their entire mouthy opinion on what's filtered through mainstream media.

I know what I know, and the stories I've heard belong to the men and women who have been there and know what they saw. For now we will bury the heroes who have fallen and honor them knowing some time soon, the media's attention will shift..

Then we'll have to listen to the BS and misinformation from those who weren't there and/or couldn't be bothered to serve.
lololololol
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Dont know if you guys hear, but the same or a similar article also ran in the Marine Corps Times and Navy Times. Make no mistake, these are civilian run papers with their own agendas, but they're also where alot of soldiers get their news. I mean ALOT of them.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
...and something else. Ive met the managing editor of the MC times at a conference and this is something he told me "Sometimes our job is to save the Marine Corps from itself."
This struck me in a couple of ways. First off, it's very self-important. Secondly, why should a possibly-partisan, Gannett owned paper, have a mission like that?

Any thoughts?
 

MudGrrl

AAAAH! Monkeys stole my math!
Mar 4, 2004
3,123
0
Boston....outside of it....
Dont know if you guys hear, but the same or a similar article also ran in the Marine Corps Times and Navy Times. Make no mistake, these are civilian run papers with their own agendas, but they're also where alot of soldiers get their news. I mean ALOT of them.

I remember always seeing the AF Times, and dismissing it as military propaganda.....
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,423
22,508
Sleazattle
I predict that Rumsfeld will be gone in 2 years.

You don't think Emporer Condi will keep him on board? If not in his current role with Bush Jr gone they will need to fill the open spot for court jester.
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,335
15
in da shed, mon, in da shed
I used to work for the Armed Forces Journal before it was sold to and folded into the Times, and I found it to be a very well-written and researched periodical. The owners, editors, and many of the staff had extensive military backgrounds and contacts within the JCS and armed services at all levels. I haven't followed things there since the sale and a quick peek at the Staff page showed only one name with which I am familiar, but I can't say I read anything above that I'm particularly in disagreement with.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
...and something else. Ive met the managing editor of the MC times at a conference and this is something he told me "Sometimes our job is to save the Marine Corps from itself."
This struck me in a couple of ways. First off, it's very self-important. Secondly, why should a possibly-partisan, Gannett owned paper, have a mission like that?

Any thoughts?
This is less a question about Gannett and more about editorial staffs.

I believe very few papers allow the owners to influence the editorials (except for, of course, who gets hired to the editorial staff). There are many instances of editors quiting when unduly influenced by the owners on a particular topic.

Obviously, you wouldn't hire the a writer from Mother Jones onto the editoral board of the Army Times, and I am sure whatever opinions they offer have to fit in with the target audiences. But while I doubt their staff is entirely Iraqi War Veterans, I would have to give it more creedence than Socialist News.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Like? Is it a CYA? Help us laymen out here...
forgive me but I'm cutting and pasting from previous posts

DRB said:
Its the old time military establishment that is challenging him. They want their big weapons systems and he is against that. Its the defense contractors and their lobbyist that are out to get Donny boy right now. Most if not all of the complaining is coming from old time soldiers that think you need 100000 tanks to every battle. They want to replace weapons systems with new ones when the old ones are virtually indestructible (ie the M1 Abrams).

He is asking questions about why so many of the defense contracts are over budget and late. That scares the daylights out of them.

The same old timers that saw little or no use for special operation troops. One Army special forces A detachment can train in the neighborhood of 500 to 750 indiginous personnel to fight for themselves with minimal cost. But see that's not big bang or heavy metal. Just 10 soldiers in the middle of nowhere <winning hearts and minds effectively>

Just when the old timers had marginalized light infantry units like the 101st and 82nd. He encourages their use due to the flexibility and mobility they provide you.
He is still pushing this doctrine. I'm not defending how the "occupation" as been dealt with but there is more here than simply that.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
forgive me but I'm cutting and pasting from previous posts

He is still pushing this doctrine.
But is anyone else? Where is the new guard, that also support his fast and light approach? I'm looking for military, not civilians, that are going toe to toe with the old-guard and also trying to reform our military.

From my point of view, I would have been all for fast, light and flexible in concept. Knowing nothing about warfare, it's my liberal dream come true and has been shown to be effective in the business world... what I see in execution is that they nailed "light" but skipped "fast and flexible." They did not redefine how we engage with this new type of force. Is that the unfortunate truth of any state military under geneva convention, or can this new model actually work if executed properly?