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The Bad Head Gasket Thread - or, "How fvcked is H8R?"

H8R

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
So I went to top off the coolant in our Outback. There's some oil sludge in the over-flow tank.

*sigh*

Which probably means there is coolant in the oil.

How fvcked am I?

Has anyone used a chemical sealant? The kind you add to the radiator? Do they work as a temporary fix or am I looking at a new engine?

(it has almost 200k on it, no use in just repairing the gasket)
 
kazlx

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Actually the only special tools you really need to do a headgasket is fuel line disconnects and a torque wrench. The rest is pretty much a basic set of hand tools. You do need to check the head and the block for warpage though, otherwise you are wasting your time putting another gasket in. Definitely a little intimidating if you have never done it before though.

I would check the oil, because that is usually the dead give away. I don't think those sealers work...or at least well enough to continue to drive it. It might work for something like keeping your car from blowing up to get home, but it wont last.
 
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ultraNoob

ultraNoob

Yoshinoya Destroyer
Jan 20, 2007
4,504
1
Hills of Paradise
Step 1: drain and fill cooling system with water
Step 2: remove all spark plugs
Step 3: let car sit for 20 min then mark the oil level on the engine oil dipstick
Step 4: perform cooling system pressure test, let sit overnight
Step 5: check oil dipstick to see if level has gotten higher
- if yes, you're screwed
- if no, go to step 6 and 7
Step 6: remove ecu fuse from fuse box
Step 7: fashion white paper towels near the spark plug holes and crank engine
- if coolant appears on paper towels you're screwed
- if no coolant, rebuild your motor. You're over 200k anyways, might as well do it.
 
C.P.

C.P.

Monkey
Jan 18, 2004
547
8
SouthEastern Massachusetts
W/ 200K it's still worth fixing. I did the headgasket(s) on my '00 Outback 2.5 SOHC earlier this year. It was actually not too bad to do, and rewarding. Total cost DIY was roughly 450, including a stop by the machine shop to have the heads decked and checked, new timing-belt & water-pump, cam seals, coolant & new plugs, wires b/c it needed a tuneup.
I also used this handy DIY thread I found on another forum.
Engine is still tight, and haven't had a single CEL since (did it last summer). Mine has about 195k on the clock by now.

edit: if you have a DOHC, big time PITA to do the job DIY. If it's a SOHC, much easier. As mentioned above, the tools I needed (other then pretty basic metric sockets screwdrivers etc)included a 14mm 12 point socket to fit torque wrench and breaker bar , 22 mm socket for crankshaft pulley, 2 ft breaker bar [to break heads loose], compression tester to find tdc on #1 cyl. , heavy duty strap wrench [to hold pulleys while you loosen]
 
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H8R

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
ultraNoob said:
- if no coolant, rebuild your motor. You're over 200k anyways, might as well do it.
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Anyone have an idea how much that would run?

Like I said, I do not have the mechanical skill to re-do a head gasket, nor do I have the tools or the time.

My mechanical skill stops at bikes.
 
C.P.

C.P.

Monkey
Jan 18, 2004
547
8
SouthEastern Massachusetts
H8R said:
Anyone have an idea how much that would run?

Like I said, I do not have the mechanical skill to re-do a head gasket, nor do I have the tools or the time.

My mechanical skill stops at bikes.
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to have head-gaskets done by a shop in my area (South of Boston) was between 1800 & 2200. Costly indeed. If you decide to got hat route, make sure they use OEM headgasket, the new "improved" one is totally different then the original - which Subaru has pretty much acknowledged sucks.
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,639
12,700
In a van.... down by the river
C.P. said:
to have head-gaskets done by a shop in my area (South of Boston) was between 1800 & 2200. Costly indeed. If you decide to got hat route, make sure they use OEM headgasket, the new "improved" one is totally different then the original - which Subaru has pretty much acknowledged sucks.
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Holy $hit. You people in Boston get RAPED. I got the head gaskets, all cam seals, new spark plugs, and a CLUTCH replaced for $1500. :shocked:
 
H8R

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
The mech we usually go to is really good, very thorough and charges a reasonable price. Not the cheapest in town but the car has been babied up to almost 200k with only minor issues till now. Hopefully they will give us the loyalty rate.


Wife has been out of work for over 3 months. This is just perfect.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,064
5,974
borcester rhymes
usually around a grand for a HG repair, plus or minus machine work and anything else that pops up. To *just* take the heads off and replace the gaskets is usually around a grand, for most cars. Beyond that, you have freaky things that might come up, plus machine work, and you probably should do the timing belt and water pump while you're in there....etc. etc.

I've tried the Barr's Stop Leak stuff on my cars before and it definitely helps, but I'm not sure how far gone your engine is...oil in the coolant and vise versa is beyond puffs of white smoke out the back...sounds like yours is worse.

A better option might be an engine swap. You might be able to pick up a good used engine from some knucklehead tuner for a couple hundred bucks, then stuff it in and you're good to go, mostly. A full swap might cost the same or less than a head gasket, depending on how complicated it is...
 
Jim Mac

Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
May 21, 2004
6,352
282
the middle east of NY
Check with Subaru on recalls - On my '98, we received a letter stating that there was a "problem" with head gaskets, but the solution was an additive available for free at Subie dealers - not quite a recall, but...
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,639
12,700
In a van.... down by the river
Jim Mac said:
Check with Subaru on recalls - On my '98, we received a letter stating that there was a "problem" with head gaskets, but the solution was an additive available for free at Subie dealers - not quite a recall, but...
Click to expand...
There is no recall for this issue. There probably should have been... but it generally didn't rear its head until about 120K miles... and most of the cars were OLD by then.
 
DirtyMike

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
Ok something I didnt see here...... Sludge in the coolant.

Two questions...Is it an automatic?

And.... Is it using a long life coolant?


IF its an auto..... check for the milkshake telltale in the oil...If not...check for milkyness in the trans....... Seen this alot of times were people think they have a blown headgasket, to find out its just a bad radiator. Internal trans coolers like to do this, while running, they will put a little trans oil in the coolant, then when you shut if ott, itll push coolant into the trans cooler.


Its its an extended life coolant, I would do the checks Sherman already listed.... if all checks out, do a really good flush, and start with fresh coolant.
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,639
12,700
In a van.... down by the river
DirtyMike said:
Ok something I didnt see here...... Sludge in the coolant.

Two questions...Is it an automatic?

And.... Is it using a long life coolant?


IF its an auto..... check for the milkshake telltale in the oil...If not...check for milkyness in the trans....... Seen this alot of times were people think they have a blown headgasket, to find out its just a bad radiator. Internal trans coolers like to do this, while running, they will put a little trans oil in the coolant, then when you shut if ott, itll push coolant into the trans cooler.


Its its an extended life coolant, I would do the checks Sherman already listed.... if all checks out, do a really good flush, and start with fresh coolant.
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Dude. It's a '96 Subaru 2.5l with over 200K. It's the head gasket. I'm surprised he's gotten this far. :D

Oh - and H8R... make SURE they do both head gaskets. Not just the "blown" one...
 
DirtyMike

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
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SkaredShtles said:
Dude. It's a '96 Subaru 2.5l with over 200K. It's the head gasket. I'm surprised he's gotten this far. :D

Oh - and H8R... make SURE they do both head gaskets. Not just the "blown" one...
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Wow... so sure of that without even seeing the car..... I love how sometimes its forgotten thats what I do for a living....

Its cool though, go for a headgasket without testing first.... Love getting cars in that, to see the customer has spent thousands trying to fix something WITHOUT CHECKING THE BASICS FIRST, only to find something stupid and simple, that should have ben caught with a proper inspection int he first place...all in the name of saving a few bucks.



And for teh record, Headgaskets do not have a mileage life. Sorry but thinking that just because a car has so many miles on it, and you have a little oil here... means it is the ehad gaskets is just an assanine way of thining about it.... Specially if the coolant was serivced, oil was changed, and the vehicle hasnt been overheated.....You do know the actual cause of blowing headgaskets is a lack of maintanance right.


Oh and for the record, My last subie had 362ish miles on it, and I brought up what I did because I had that very problem....... Saved myself ALOT of grief my doing so simple checks first.... Head gaskets were just fine.
 
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SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,639
12,700
In a van.... down by the river
DirtyMike said:
Wow... so sure of that without even seeing the car..... I love how sometimes its forgotten thats what I do for a living....

Its cool though, go for a headgasket without testing first.... Love getting cars in that, to see the customer has spent thousands trying to fix something WITHOUT CHECKING THE BASICS FIRST, only to find something stupid and simple, that should have ben caught with a proper inspection int he first place...all in the name of saving a few bucks.
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Dude. Don't get butthurt. It's the head gasket. :D



And for teh record, Headgaskets do not have a mileage life.
Sorry but thinking that just because a car has so many miles on it, and you have a little oil here... means it is the ehad gaskets is just an assanine way of thining about it.... Specially if the coolant was serivced, oil was changed, and the vehicle hasnt been overheated.....You do know the actual cause of blowing headgaskets is a lack of maintanance right.


Oh and for the record, My last subie had 362ish miles on it, and I brought up what I did because I had that very problem....... Saved myself ALOT of grief my doing so simple checks first.... Head gaskets were just fine.
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Yours wasn't a 2.5l from '96-00' was it? :p
 
DirtyMike

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
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My own world inside my head
SkaredShtles said:
Dude. Don't get butthurt. It's the head gasket. :D




Yours wasn't a 2.5l from '96-00' was it? :p
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Oh Im sorry, I forgot you have the most expierience ever with these engines, have training, master certified, and know how to tell something has a bad headgasket from readin a SINGLE symtom over the internet..

I dont care what engine, Manf whatever it is.... either the cooling system is neglected or the car overheats to warp the heads.....

I always love it when people say just check the heads.... no they are warped if the heads blown..


Suggest it right, or dont suggest..... do the checks before ripping an engine apart.....

Def dont go to a shop and say "I need headgaskets"... cause youll get headgaskets, and they wont verify.

Come on man seriously, YOu cannot look at ANY vehicle look at one symtom, look at the milage, and know right off the bat what it is............


Oh, and no, it was an 83.... a year that was much more prone to engine failuer than the 2.5
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,639
12,700
In a van.... down by the river
DirtyMike said:
Oh Im sorry, I forgot you have the most expierience ever with these engines, have training, master certified, and know how to tell something has a bad headgasket from readin a SINGLE symtom over the internet..

I dont care what engine, Manf whatever it is.... either the cooling system is neglected or the car overheats to warp the heads.....

I always love it when people say just check the heads.... no they are warped if the heads blown..


Suggest it right, or dont suggest..... do the checks before ripping an engine apart.....

Def dont go to a shop and say "I need headgaskets"... cause youll get headgaskets, and they wont verify.

Come on man seriously, YOu cannot look at ANY vehicle look at one symtom, look at the milage, and know right off the bat what it is............
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Dude... you're butthurt. Bad day at work? :p

Oh, and no, it was an 83....
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That's what I thought. H8R has a '96 with a 2.5l. It's the head gasket. :D
 
DirtyMike

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
SkaredShtles said:
Dude... you're butthurt. Bad day at work? :p


That's what I thought. H8R has a '96 with a 2.5l. It's the head gasket. :D
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Not at all, as a matter of fact, I made about 5 bills today in commission, mostly telling people there vehicles were no were near as bad as they thought they were.

I even got to leave early because I was done, and all the vehicles had been sent home and done with
 
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