[Changleen]

Despite that everyone is sure Osama B is 100% pure evil and definalty responsible for some wrongdoing at some point or another - Well, he might be, but here we are anyway:

1) http://www.justresponse.net/Bin_Laden1.html

An Interview with Osama B. conducted on Friday, 28 September 2001 by a Karachi newspaper. You may have heard of this interview, although not a lot of noise was made about it in the West. Interesting bit:

I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other human beings as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of battle.

The whole interview is very interesting, if you care about the view of America in the Middle East it is interesting from that point of view as well. What is most fun is that this guy is clearly more intelligent and articulate than Bush.

Anyway, what you are sure to have head of is the videotape where Osama 'admits his guilt'. This is another angle on that. Not necassarily true but interesting anyway.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Anyway, what you are sure to have head of is the videotape where Osama 'admits his guilt'. This is another angle on that. Not necassarily true but interesting anyway.

Hahaha!

According to that second link, the tape is each of the following.

1. An Osama imposter
2. Years old, with the real Osama speaking about another event
3. The real Osama at the real time, but without actual knowledge of the planned event until 5 days before.

What a bunch of RETARDS.

 

[Changleen]

Actually, Burly, I think they were just trying to point out the flaws in the 'official' version of events. The overriding point is clearly 'The guy doesn't look like Osama'. What did you think about that?

Edit: Here are some links to the 'original' recordings to help you make up your mind.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Actually, Burly, I think they were just trying to point out the flaws in the 'official' version of events. The overriding point is clearly 'The guy doesn't look like Osama'. What did you think about that?

But they made 3 different assertions about the same piece of tape. First its not Osama at all, and then its this, then it might be that....how is that something you seriously consider?
But anyway, the one Osama was darker and the tape was grainy so to be fully honest, I can not say for certain that it was Osama since I was not there, but I would not say that it defiinitely wasnt Osama. I kind of find all these tape hoax theories funny because, just look that the little inacuracies they point out, 22 minutes missing, impossible backround noise...what do they take the US for? If we were going to fake some stuff, surely we'd do a better job than that lump of crap.

 

[genpowell71]

Yeah, I'm sure their credible, like Al Jazeera is.

 

[Changleen]

But they made 3 different assertions about the same piece of tape. First its not Osama at all, and then its this, then it might be that....how is that something you seriously consider?

I consider the actual facts I can see (or otherwise check) for myself - that the guy in the video may not be Osama. I too am undecided if it really is him.

But anyway, the one Osama was darker and the tape was grainy so to be fully honest, I can not say for certain that it was Osama since I was not there, but I would not say that it defiinitely wasnt Osama.

I agree. It may be Osama, but, if it is, it is inconsistent with other Osama recordings and off message for a guy who has a pretty clear and consistent message. He's also put on quite a bit of weight, which he then looses again before his next 'official' video. People who knew him in the past have said he's always been slim and tall.

I kind of find all these tape hoax theories funny because, just look that the little inacuracies they point out, 22 minutes missing, impossible backround noise...what do they take the US for? If we were going to fake some stuff, surely we'd do a better job than that lump of crap.

Haha, that's just the thing which make people think it is a fake.

1) This tape was apparantly randomly 'found' in a private home in Jalalabad, Afghanistan. By who? What were they doing there? What were they looking for? Was it buried in piles of other anti western tapes or just between 'Shrek' and 'Caddyshack'? Secondly, the Pentagon re-edited (the order of events) it by their own admission before releasing it.

2) Other tapes of Osama before and since this one have been of pretty good quality and given to Arabic news agencies by known contacts of Al Quaida. In none of these tapes has Bin Laden admitted responsibility. I'd think that if he really was behind it, wouldn't he crow about it? Even a little bit?

3) This tape is really bad quality. Who even has a video camera that bad? Even early video recorders do a way better job. I mean, if you really were recording an important meeting of Al Quaida leaders, wouldn't you try and do a better job? Doesn't it seem more likely that the low quality is interntional, to hide the fact that Osama isn't Osama?

 

[Changleen]

Yeah, I'm sure their credible, like Al Jazeera is.

I personally find Al Jazeera to be way more credible, than, let's say, Fox...

 

[BurlyShirley]

1) This tape was apparantly randomly 'found' in a private home in Jalalabad, Afghanistan. By who? What were they doing there? What were they looking for? Was it buried in piles of other anti western tapes or just between 'Shrek' and 'Caddyshack'? Secondly, the Pentagon re-edited (the order of events) it by their own admission before releasing it.

2) Other tapes of Osama before and since this one have been of pretty good quality and given to Arabic news agencies by known contacts of Al Quaida. In none of these tapes has Bin Laden admitted responsibility. I'd think that if he really was behind it, wouldn't he crow about it? Even a little bit?

3) This tape is really bad quality. Who even has a video camera that bad? Even early video recorders do a way better job. I mean, if you really were recording an important meeting of Al Quaida leaders, wouldn't you try and do a better job? Doesn't it seem more likely that the low quality is interntional, to hide the fact that Osama isn't Osama?

1. I dont know.
2. Niether of us can really know what Osama is thinking, or why he might be a flip-flopper like john kerry as this is all just speculation, but when someone HAS admitted to other attacks on US interests (USS Cole) you kind of start to develop an idea for what a person can and will do. Perhaps he knew that admitting it would cause the entire world to be on his ass, so he got scared, then later said " **** it! praise be to allah, where's my virgins?" What I find interesting is that YOU and many others for instance consistently bash Bush for his "fundamentalism" and then call him a liar and all these other things, yet you're taking quotes from Osama Bin Laden as credible? Do you see nothing wrong with that?
3. We have seen really bad quality tapes from the arab-terrorist world before, some of those beheading videos come to mind (oh yeah, those were hoaxes too ) but sure it COULD be that Osama isnt Osama. Or it could be that a Unicorn just flew out of my ass, but YOU really just to sort of pattern people for doing what they are known to do, unless you have facts to suggest otherwise, which you dont. All you have is pretty much baseless speculation.

 

[Silver]

Changleen, the Saudis expelled him.

That's enough for me. If they can't put up with him (and they can put up a lot from their wealthy citizens) he's gotta be bad news

 

[Changleen]

but when someone HAS admitted to other attacks on US interests (USS Cole) you kind of start to develop an idea for what a person can and will do.

The Cole was a military target, which does fit with with his 'claimed' agenda. This tape, the only evidence for him being behind 9/11 is at odds with all of his other speeches and pronouncements.

Perhaps he knew that admitting it would cause the entire world to be on his ass, so he got scared, then later said " **** it! praise be to allah, where's my virgins?" What I find interesting is that YOU and many others for instance consistently bash Bush for his "fundamentalism" and then call him a liar and all these other things, yet you're taking quotes from Osama Bin Laden as credible? Do you see nothing wrong with that?

Yes, Of course. However it easy to prove Bush is a liar. On the other hand, this tape excluded, what Bin Laden says and is 100% known to have done (and has claimed responsibility for) are highly coherent. 9/11 is the odd one out in this list.

We have seen really bad quality tapes from the arab-terrorist world before, some of those beheading videos come to mind (oh yeah, those were hoaxes too )

The beheading tapes were actually quite good..but anyway..

but sure it COULD be that Osama isnt Osama. Or it could be that a Unicorn just flew out of my ass, but YOU really just to sort of pattern people for doing what they are known to do,

That's what I'm trying to say...

unless you have facts to suggest otherwise, which you dont. All you have is pretty much baseless speculation.

Sure, there are no verifiable facts here, but I don't see the US putting out any either.

What we do have is, in one hand - a record of Osama attacking what he considers to be legitimate targets and then taking responsibility for these attacks and an interview with him in which he states he was not responsible for 9/11 and why not.
In the other hand we basically have a dodgy video which goes against all his other broadcasts and the claims of the US government that they're sure it was him behind 9/11.

 

[Changleen]

Changleen, the Saudis expelled him.

That's enough for me. If they can't put up with him (and they can put up a lot from their wealthy citizens) he's gotta be bad news

Who pays the Saudis?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Sure, there are no verifiable facts here

I think that about sums up your argument.

 

[Changleen]

I think that about sums up your argument.

Whereas yours seemed to be mostly about me...

 

[fluff]

Oddly enough I was trying to find out recently if Bin Laden or Al-Qaeda had actually ever claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attack. It is assumed that it was definitely him, but what evidence is there that we can see?

And I'm no conspiracy theorist, my angle is that if he did claim responsibility then it kills Changleen's 'Bush did it' theory stone dead. Basically I'd like to get as close to the facts as possible.

 

[Changleen]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP310A.html

Wow that is LOOONNNGGG

 

[Toshi]

have you read this? http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/staff_statement_16.pdf

lots of verifiable facts in there...

 

[nicklin]

Changleen, the Saudis expelled him.

That's enough for me. If they can't put up with him (and they can put up a lot from their wealthy citizens) he's gotta be bad news

that is so true!!!!!