[jimmydean]

M4 manual rwd. Proper donuts are tough in AWD.

 

[Jm_]

I don't know how to brake with my clutch foot. What am I supposed to do with my left foot? I would have to relearn to drive. And also no heel/toe. Where is the fun in auto rev matching?

The real secret to going fast and shaving seconds is about weight transfer and loading relative to power application and braking. Thats where the fun is.

 

[Jm_]

M4 manual rwd. Proper donuts are tough in AWD.

Proper donuts should be 100% funded for the tire wear and waste by those who think donuts are cool.

 

[junkyard]

Proper donuts should be 100% funded for the tire wear and waste by those who think donuts are cool.

who hurt you?

 

[Toshi]

I can't see why you wouldn't want swappable batteries. Owning the battery is a huge downside to me.

Because you adopt the risks of the prior users of the pack that was swapped in in terms of bouncing off of the 100% and 0% states of charge.

I'd rather know and own it, but then again my driving patterns don't require anything but charging at home (1 or 2—10 kW level 2 EVSE at each).

 

[Jm_]

who hurt you?

Naw, I just want the doofus asking me to do burnouts to buy me a new set of the $2K tires.

 

[Adventurous]

Because you adopt the risks of the prior users of the pack that was swapped in in terms of bouncing off of the 100% and 0% states of charge.

I'd rather know and own it, but then again my driving patterns don't require anything but charging at home (1 or 2—10 kW level 2 EVSE at each).

I guess it depends on how the battery swap service is structured. Are you paying a monthly fee for use of a battery? Is the fee based on miles driven? Or are you paying a fee for use of a particular battery?

Options 1 and 2 make the most sense to me, and it wouldn't be a huge deal if you got a bum battery. Just go swap it out for a new one.

 

[Westy]

I want to own my gasoline supply chain so I don't have to risk getting a bad tank of gas.

 

[maxyedor]

c'mon 'murica. if you can do it with propane tanks you can do it with batteries!

That's not the reason Tesla backed away from it. It was too much overhead for the swapping stations. Batteries are like $20k, and a busy station would need an ungodly amount of them. Ideally they'd be owned by the manufacturer like propane tanks are so that when they get degraded the station nor customer is left holding the bag. Tesla stepped away from the idea because they didn't want the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of batteries on their balance sheets, nor did they want to lock themselves into a specific battery shape, size or voltage forever.

Consumers would go nuts for it, the potential of battery degradation is a bit issue, as is range anxiety, swappable batteries would solve both. As much as some people love shitting on 'Murica, this isn't really a "Murica" issue.

 

[junkyard]

Naw, I just want the doofus asking me to do burnouts to buy me a new set of the $2K tires.

that guy is the worst. They always scream it when you stopped at a crosswalk in town too. The drunk Karen version common in the southwest I find particularly offensive.

 

[junkyard]

If you’


That's not the reason Tesla backed away from it. It was too much overhead for the swapping stations. Batteries are like $20k, and a busy station would need an ungodly amount of them. Ideally they'd be owned by the manufacturer like propane tanks are so that when they get degraded the station nor customer is left holding the bag. Tesla stepped away from the idea because they didn't want the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of batteries on their balance sheets, nor did they want to lock themselves into a specific battery shape, size or voltage forever.

Consumers would go nuts for it, the potential of battery degradation is a bit issue, as is range anxiety, swappable batteries would solve both. As much as some people love shitting on 'Murica, this isn't really a "Murica" issue.

ya but one day.

 

[dump]

Are batteries really $20k for the manufacturer?

That's not the reason Tesla backed away from it. It was too much overhead for the swapping stations. Batteries are like $20k, and a busy station would need an ungodly amount of them. Ideally they'd be owned by the manufacturer like propane tanks are so that when they get degraded the station nor customer is left holding the bag. Tesla stepped away from the idea because they didn't want the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of batteries on their balance sheets, nor did they want to lock themselves into a specific battery shape, size or voltage forever.

Consumers would go nuts for it, the potential of battery degradation is a bit issue, as is range anxiety, swappable batteries would solve both. As much as some people love shitting on 'Murica, this isn't really a "Murica" issue.

 

[canadmos]

M4 manual rwd. Proper donuts are tough in AWD.

Remember back in the day when BMW's were visually appealing?

 

[jimmydean]

Remember back in the day when BMW's were visually appealing?

The E30 M3 is still one of the hotest cars evar.

 

[Pesqueeb]

So close to what I was hoping it would be. Needs a bit less Frunk space and a bit more battery, and I'm not totally on board with the IRS, would have preferred a solid axle for towing. Still a damn cool truck, mostly because it's so bland and boring, no triangles or "bulletproof" windows.

Electric 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning Is Finally Here With 775 LB-FT and a $40K Sticker

It'll tow up to 10,000 pounds, outrun a Raptor to 60, and outsmart your energy company.

www.thedrive.com

I said it in @Toshi's thread and I'll say it here:

4 doors and independent rear suspension is not a truck, it's a minivan. The target demo here is suburban dad-bros whose ego is too fragile to buy a car that suits their actual needs.

 

[Westy]

I said it in @Toshi's thread and I'll say it here:

4 doors and independent rear suspension is not a truck, it's a minivan. The target demo here is suburban dad-bros whose ego is too fragile to buy a car that suits their actual needs.

So like 98% of truck buyers?

 

[Pesqueeb]

So like 98% of truck buyers?

And 100% of 4 door Wrangler buyers.

 

[OGRipper]

I love how they're targeting Texan buyers with the whole bit about the grid going down and using your truck to power your house.

 

[Jm_]

Remember back in the day when BMW's were visually appealing?

Now they are giant beavers.

 

[Changleen]

That's not the reason Tesla backed away from it. It was too much overhead for the swapping stations. Batteries are like $20k, and a busy station would need an ungodly amount of them. Ideally they'd be owned by the manufacturer like propane tanks are so that when they get degraded the station nor customer is left holding the bag. Tesla stepped away from the idea because they didn't want the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of batteries on their balance sheets, nor did they want to lock themselves into a specific battery shape, size or voltage forever.

Consumers would go nuts for it, the potential of battery degradation is a bit issue, as is range anxiety, swappable batteries would solve both. As much as some people love shitting on 'Murica, this isn't really a "Murica" issue.

I’ve read more than one thing saying that was the reason, but maybe that was a factor too.

At the company’s recent shareholder meeting, Musk told investors that few Tesla owners have used the company’s swapping station at Harris Ranch, California, located between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

“We’ve invited all the Model S owners in the area to try it out, and of the first round of 200 invitations, only four or five people were interested,” Musk said at the meeting. “Clearly it’s not very popular.”

An independant survey of 145 Tesla owners conducted by Jefferies, support Tesla’s findings.

 

[maxyedor]

Are batteries really $20k for the manufacturer?

Honestly who knows, and it would depend a lot on which EV we're talking about. This seems to show them as $13.5k, so not as bad as I thought https://www.currentautomotive.com/how-much-does-a-tesla-model-3-battery-replacement-cost/ Assuming Tesla gets a 20% margin on those, which is probably way more than they actually make, that's an $11k battery. Not horrific, but still a logistical nightmare unless packs were standardized like propane tanks.


Fast charging seems like it's just evolving so fast that it's going to become more practical to charge faster than any kind of swap system could become viable. Perfect world they would both happen, so kinda like my propane tanks, I could keep my "good" ones but swap one out if and when I need to, and it would drastically increase the lifespan of an EV. Add in some of the recycling concepts that simply repurpose degraded cells into home back-up batteries instead of scrapping them and it could work pretty damn well long term.

 

[maxyedor]

I’ve read more than one thing saying that was the reason, but maybe that was a factor too.

You have a link to the rest of that article? Interested if they delve into the failure a bit more. 4-5 people taking advantage of it could be the result of a bunch of factors, not the least of which being located at Harris Ranch. I imagine they'd have much better success on the 101 instead of the 5 because the 101 connects the Bay Area to LA and a whole lot of popular rich person vacation stops along the way, but the 5 connects LA to bumfuck nowhere, unless you go way, way further north.

 

[Westy]

Honestly who knows, and it would depend a lot on which EV we're talking about. This seems to show them as $13.5k, so not as bad as I thought https://www.currentautomotive.com/how-much-does-a-tesla-model-3-battery-replacement-cost/ Assuming Tesla gets a 20% margin on those, which is probably way more than they actually make, that's an $11k battery. Not horrific, but still a logistical nightmare unless packs were standardized like propane tanks.


Fast charging seems like it's just evolving so fast that it's going to become more practical to charge faster than any kind of swap system could become viable. Perfect world they would both happen, so kinda like my propane tanks, I could keep my "good" ones but swap one out if and when I need to, and it would drastically increase the lifespan of an EV. Add in some of the recycling concepts that simply repurpose degraded cells into home back-up batteries instead of scrapping them and it could work pretty damn well long term.

Charging technology has little to do with the chargers but with the batteries. If and when solid state batteries hit the market they will be able to be charged at much higher rates and hold more power with less weight. Hopefully by the time I need another car they will be commercially prevalent.

 

[6thElement]

Can I not just have a Mr Fusion like BTTF?

 

[Changleen]

Can I not just have a Mr Fusion like BTTF?

In 30 years.

 

[Changleen]

You have a link to the rest of that article? Interested if they delve into the failure a bit more. 4-5 people taking advantage of it could be the result of a bunch of factors, not the least of which being located at Harris Ranch. I imagine they'd have much better success on the 101 instead of the 5 because the 101 connects the Bay Area to LA and a whole lot of popular rich person vacation stops along the way, but the 5 connects LA to bumfuck nowhere, unless you go way, way further north.

Tesla's battery-swapping plan has a mere shadow of the promise it once showed

Two years after its debut, Tesla's battery-swapping program is not in good shape.

www.businessinsider.com.au

 

[Westy]

L

In 30 years.

Except it will be Self Identified Pronoun Fusion.

 

[Changleen]

Hydrogen will be the shit once we have the infrastructure for it. All the power of a BEV with much lower weight and ‘normal’ refuelling but with much better range. It is the best of both worlds, again, once the infrastructure exists.

Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen supercar is real, first prototype hits the road

Originally envisaged as a proof of concept, the Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen-electric supercar is now destined for production.

www.motorauthority.com

 

[stoney]

You have a link to the rest of that article? Interested if they delve into the failure a bit more. 4-5 people taking advantage of it could be the result of a bunch of factors, not the least of which being located at Harris Ranch. I imagine they'd have much better success on the 101 instead of the 5 because the 101 connects the Bay Area to LA and a whole lot of popular rich person vacation stops along the way, but the 5 connects LA to bumfuck nowhere, unless you go way, way further north.

5 is how you get from SF to LA. It's 1.5hrs faster to go down 5.

 

[Changleen]

5 is how you get from SF to LA. It's 1.5hrs faster to go down 5.

I have never driven on the 5 without it being a shitshow for some reason.

 

[maxyedor]

5 is how you get from SF to LA. It's 1.5hrs faster to go down 5.

Less than 40 miles further on the 101 vs the 5, but no grapevine, you don't have to pass through Bakersfield, and it's scenic as hell. Who would choose the 5 over the 101?

Put the batter swap station in Paso Robles and I'll bet at least 12 people would have stopped there.

 

[dump]

I have never driven on the 5 without it being a shitshow for some reason.

Sounds familiar. Last time I drove down, there was a grass fire that crossed all four lanes. People slowed but were not phased.

 

[Jm_]

Hydrogen will be the shit once we have the infrastructure for it. All the power of a BEV with much lower weight and ‘normal’ refuelling but with much better range. It is the best of both worlds, again, once the infrastructure exists.

Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen supercar is real, first prototype hits the road

Originally envisaged as a proof of concept, the Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen-electric supercar is now destined for production.

www.motorauthority.com

And don't forget, it'll be a shit-ton more expensive than electricity, no instant torque, no utilizing the grid overnight (increases efficiency), yay!

 

[Changleen]

And don't forget, it'll be a shit-ton more expensive than electricity, no instant torque, no utilizing the grid overnight (increases efficiency), yay!

Nope, the hydrogen will be produced by dedicated green power and also under-utilised green (or not) power plants, so the grid efficiency will be high.
Yes it has instant torque, it is the same electric motors as any other EV, in fact it might be even boostier as you generally run a super capacitor between the cell and the motors.
Hydrogen is predicted to drop in price very fast over the next decade. When it’s a couple of bucks a kilo it’ll be in all the things.

 

[HardtailHack]

I got to play cars today, has been a long time between any non work based auto shenanigans.
A friend has a 40 series Troopy that can somehow draw over 100amps with everything on so I'm having a second go at fitting a 180 amp alternator, my boss was annoying the shit outta me when I was making the first one and I mis-measured the height which made it useless.

 

[Changleen]

Move faster.

In China’s Biggest Cities, One in Five Cars Sold Is Now Electric
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-10/in-china-s-biggest-cities-one-in-five-cars-sold-is-now-electric

 

[6thElement]

Move faster.

In China’s Biggest Cities, One in Five Cars Sold Is Now Electric
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-10/in-china-s-biggest-cities-one-in-five-cars-sold-is-now-electric

How much coal are they burning to power them?

 

[Changleen]

How much coal are they burning to power them?

Renewable energy in China - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Toshi]

Renewable energy in China - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

yeah

Although China currently has the world's largest installed capacity of hydro, solar and wind power, its energy needs are so large that in 2019, renewable sources provided 26% of its electricity generation[8]—compared to 17% in the U.S.A.[9]—with most of the remainder provided by coal power plants.

so 74% coal powered. Like an EV in Wyoming if not offset!

/me has PV on the roof and the rest of the grid power is offset by solar RECs for whatever that's worth

 

[dump]

Nope, the hydrogen will be produced by dedicated green power and also under-utilised green (or not) power plants, so the grid efficiency will be high.
Yes it has instant torque, it is the same electric motors as any other EV, in fact it might be even boostier as you generally run a super capacitor between the cell and the motors.
Hydrogen is predicted to drop in price very fast over the next decade. When it’s a couple of bucks a kilo it’ll be in all the things.

I don’t know much about hydrogen, so I read the Wikipedia page. This doesn’t sound good. What am I missing?

A few other companies, like BMW, are still exploring hydrogen cars, while e.g. VW has expressed that the technology has no future in the automotive space, mainly because a fuel cell electric vehicle consumes about three times more energy than a battery electric car for each mile driven. As of December 2020, there were 31,225 passenger FCEVS powered with hydrogen on the world's roads.[3]

As of 2019, 98% of hydrogen is produced by steam methane reforming, which emits carbon dioxide.[4] It can be produced by thermochemical or pyrolytic means using renewable feedstocks, but the processes are currently expensive.[5] Various technologies are being developed that aim to deliver costs low enough, and quantities great enough, to compete with hydrogen production using natural gas.[6] The drawbacks of hydrogen use are high carbon emissions intensity when produced from natural gas, capital cost burden, low energy content per unit volume at ambient conditions, production and compression of hydrogen, the investment required in filling stations to dispense hydrogen, transportation of hydrogen to filling stations and lack of ability to produce or dispense hydrogen at home.[7][8][9]

Hydrogen vehicle - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org