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jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,831
8,423
Nowhere Man!
I have determined that the Porsche 911 I was looking at is not a Practical vehicle. I cannot in anyway fit my bike and me into it. It needs work also. I do not have a garage. The seller also has a Panamera hybrid. It is fun, fast, comfy, and practical. My Dentist has one and she loves it. Cost of ownership is high however. I have the weekend to figure this out... The dealer is in Buffalo. He checks out...
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,408
20,200
Sleazattle
I have determined that the Porsche 911 I was looking at is not a Practical vehicle. I cannot in anyway fit my bike and me into it. It needs work also. I do not have a garage. The seller also has a Panamera hybrid. It is fun, fast, comfy, and practical. My Dentist has one and she loves it. Cost of ownership is high however. I have the weekend to figure this out... The dealer is in Buffalo. He checks out...

Get both
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,639
AK
I have determined that the Porsche 911 I was looking at is not a Practical vehicle. I cannot in anyway fit my bike and me into it. It needs work also. I do not have a garage. The seller also has a Panamera hybrid. It is fun, fast, comfy, and practical. My Dentist has one and she loves it. Cost of ownership is high however. I have the weekend to figure this out... The dealer is in Buffalo. He checks out...
I really wanted a Panamera, found a few used ones. Supposedly some of those with the V6 are pretty reliable and well engineered. Yeah, you are going to eat it with any parts or service you might need. But I love how massive the car is (interior space for stuff). I got a Stinger instead as a consolation prize. Also kinda because you just can't really get wagons anymore and those larger hatchbacks are kind of the next best thing. Panamera is a big car...but such a fucking rad big car.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,639
AK
Yeah, I've seen that on my auto-boards, but that's really non sequitur. The Mustang EV is a crossover/SUV type and that's what people (short people?) really want. It's fun for the whole family. The actual Mustang is a sports car for relatively very narrow use. Totally apples and oranges IMO.

Would be better to compare against the Escape or that horrid vehicle I once rented known as the Eco Sport.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,639
AK
His "Partner" is bringing the Panamera here Tuesday for me to test drive. Took 2K off the price. Seems legit so far.
When I was looking, the V6 TT engine and drivetrain was thought to be pretty darn reliable. The V8 didn't seem anywhere near as bad as BMW V8s, but the V6 engine is going to be a lot more common in the Cayanes and Macans. There weren't really any big red-flags that I can across, supposedly solidly engineered. The only thing that turned me off to a couple were the light colored interiors. I absolutely cannot live with a light colored interior.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Yeah, I've seen that on my auto-boards, but that's really non sequitur. The Mustang EV is a crossover/SUV type and that's what people (short people?) really want. It's fun for the whole family. The actual Mustang is a sports car for relatively very narrow use. Totally apples and oranges IMO.

Would be better to compare against the Escape or that horrid vehicle I once rented known as the Eco Sport.
The Edge is the comparison worth making. They're literally the same thing, large 2 row, 5 passenger, performance-ish CUVs, the Mach E should have been an Edge trim level, they're that similar. Ford sold about 9k Edges a month in 2020, so a 5k unit difference, though I'm sure Mach Es would sell more than 2k units if they could make more.

Not taking anything away from the Mach E, because by all accounts is pretty rad, but comparing it to a 2 door muscle car is stupid.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,639
AK
I was checking out the audi dealership last week and I didn't even realize they made an A4 and A6 allroad. I was trying to see if I could tell the difference, but yeah, it was not easy.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,068
5,976
borcester rhymes
I dig the lotus, but boy i'd have a hard time chosing that over the corvette. Would love to see another small, mid engine cheap car like an MR2 or something.

Honestly why hasn't anybody released an electric sports car? Tesla vaporoadster aside.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,639
AK
I dig the lotus, but boy i'd have a hard time chosing that over the corvette. Would love to see another small, mid engine cheap car like an MR2 or something.

Honestly why hasn't anybody released an electric sports car? Tesla vaporoadster aside.
Hyundai has been testing one. The Veloster N and i30N are serious cars and of those are any indicator the mid engine thing should be pretty neat.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,980
9,639
AK
Honestly why hasn't anybody released an electric sports car? Tesla vaporoadster aside.
What, just two doors? Probably because the market for sports cars is so small, it wouldn’t make financial sense until they are making all sorts of other EVs first. Secondly, probably because it’s somewhat redundant, like how much faster will a 2 door go compared to a taycan, the new Audi based on the same platform, model s and 3? There’s a model 3 that dominates our autoX events.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,068
5,976
borcester rhymes
I don't know, I guess for a different experience. We have 9 million vaporware EV pickups, 3 million EV sedans, 7 million EV compliance cars, and 19 million EV CUVs. We had the Tesla roadster and some various vaporware for millions of dollars from weird euro dudes. Why not a compact convertible with a skateboard battery for rigidity?
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,454
19,453
Canaderp
What, just two doors? Probably because the market for sports cars is so small, it wouldn’t make financial sense until they are making all sorts of other EVs first. Secondly, probably because it’s somewhat redundant, like how much faster will a 2 door go compared to a taycan, the new Audi based on the same platform, model s and 3? There’s a model 3 that dominates our autoX events.
And electric cars don't make any noise, other than sounding like a jetsons vehicle occasionally. Noise is probably a big part of what attracts people to sports cars - besides the sensation of speed and agility.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Batteries are heavy, sports cars aren't supposed to be heavy. You're just never going to get the driving dynamics of a 2700lb car out of something with a 1400lb battery in it. Give it a couple years, batteries will get lighter, electric drivetrain development costs will have amortized, and ICE sportscars will keep getting fatter (I believe the Boxter is over 3klbs now), everything will just meet in the middle.

Rimac has been giving electric hypercars a pretty good go, as long as Richard Hammond isn't behind the wheel they seem pretty good, just not especially affordable.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,408
20,200
Sleazattle
Countries around the world are beginning to consider/design/implement bans on the sale of ICE passenger vehicles. Beginning as soon as 2030... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles#Countries

I wonder how much more "development" will happen on ICE engines moving forward....

Assuming emissions requirements will limit the generation of toxic gasses like NO there will be theoretical limits on compression ratios and a minimum exhaust gas temperature required to maintain catalyst temperatures. With those constraints there isn't enough room for improvements in efficiency to save the ICE unless carbon neutral fuels become widely available.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,351
2,462
Pōneke
Assuming emissions requirements will limit the generation of toxic gasses like NO there will be theoretical limits on compression ratios and a minimum exhaust gas temperature required to maintain catalyst temperatures. With those constraints there isn't enough room for improvements in efficiency to save the ICE unless carbon neutral fuels become widely available.
The atmosphere doesn’t care for ‘carbon neutral’ very much.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,351
2,462
Pōneke
Hydrogen sports cars will, eventually, be light and clean and highly performant.

 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,408
20,200
Sleazattle
The atmosphere doesn’t care for ‘carbon neutral’ very much.
Uh, the carbon cycle is the carbon cycle. If it grows, that carbon is getting returned to the atmosphere via decomposition or oxidation in one form or another unless it is turned into charcoal or pure carbon. Nothing wrong with using said carbon cycle as long as you don't reduce what is essentially a carbon buffer that exists temporarily in biomass.

All the fossil fuels we burn were created when the carbon cycle was very different, plants created lignin and other bio materials that no other organism could digest so vast amounts of carbon was removed from the carbon cycle, and we are now rapidly reintroducing that carbon with no natural processes that can remove it from the cycle.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,351
2,462
Pōneke
Yes, but we’re at over 400 ppm CO2 and climbing, technology that doesn’t actually reduce this isn’t helpful. ‘Carbon neutral’ is BS.