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Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,070
8,976
I actually want a car with the biggest greenhouse. But I'm odd.

I want the opposite of your Camaro, basically. :D

I can't find the link now besides my own reference to it, but there was a glorious line diagram from ~1991 showing the angles of what was visibility from the driver seat in a rhd Prelude. Back when manufacturers apparently cared about such things.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,408
10,884
AK
I actually want a car with the biggest greenhouse. But I'm odd.

I want the opposite of your Camaro, basically. :D

I can't find the link now besides my own reference to it, but there was a glorious line diagram from ~1991 showing the angles of what was visibility from the driver seat in a rhd Prelude. Back when manufacturers apparently cared about such things.
I hate people looking in my car while I'm driving.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,272
22,300
Sleazattle
I actually want a car with the biggest greenhouse. But I'm odd.

I want the opposite of your Camaro, basically. :D

I can't find the link now besides my own reference to it, but there was a glorious line diagram from ~1991 showing the angles of what was visibility from the driver seat in a rhd Prelude. Back when manufacturers apparently cared about such things.

Then manufacturers were told to care about side impact collisions. Certainly cars like the Camaro is was used as a styling cue but ultimately belt lines were raised so you would better survive an accident possibly caused by not being able to see out of the car.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,272
22,300
Sleazattle
I would give good money for someone to make my Leaf sound like a Tie Fighter.


I actually thought about making something like this. So many cars are now playing canned engine noises inside cars I thought why would I want to hear fake 4 cylinder sounds inside my car. Why not be able to pick your fake engine noises. I want F1 V12 sounds when in sport mode, Scooty Puff Jr in eco mode.

Really just need a throttle and RPM input. Perhaps a good winter Raspberry Pi project.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,260
10,174
I actually thought about making something like this. So many cars are now playing canned engine noises inside cars I thought why would I want to hear fake 4 cylinder sounds inside my car. Why not be able to pick your fake engine noises. I want F1 V12 sounds when in sport mode, Scooty Puff Jr in eco mode.

Really just need a throttle and RPM input. Perhaps a good winter Raspberry Pi project.
the vw iD makes a george jetson type noise i think...atleast that is what my older brother thought it sounds like...
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,408
10,884
AK
I actually thought about making something like this. So many cars are now playing canned engine noises inside cars I thought why would I want to hear fake 4 cylinder sounds inside my car. Why not be able to pick your fake engine noises. I want F1 V12 sounds when in sport mode, Scooty Puff Jr in eco mode.

Really just need a throttle and RPM input. Perhaps a good winter Raspberry Pi project.
I think there are a few that allow you to select the noise. My stinger definitely plays the fake noise. And again, most people think more noise=more power.

Ultimately I think it's a good idea. The worst thing ever is the dumbass exhausts on trucks that are loud all the time, like on startup, idle, 20mph, 40mph, 60mph, etc. No one wants to hear that. It's just dumb when you aren't pushing the car. The next best thing is the valve-operated exhaust, like I have on the Camaro. Interestingly, that car does not have piped-in sound from the audio system, it has piped-in sound from an actual tube that runs from the intake to the cabin. I deleted mine though and later production years have done the same thing now standard. It really doesn't do anything and when you are pushing the car, you definitely hear the engine.

Wind noise screws with it, but we go windows-down most of the time for visibility of cones. Not so much due to the belt-line, but it encourages you to look left and right more, which helps a lot with planning.

 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,070
8,976
Then manufacturers were told to care about side impact collisions. Certainly cars like the Camaro is was used as a styling cue but ultimately belt lines were raised so you would better survive an accident possibly caused by not being able to see out of the car.
This is part of why I chose my Land Cruiser.

New enough for Tier 2 emissions, side airbags, stability control, backup camera, and (aftermarket) USB input.

Old enough to retain a low beltline and slim A pillars, the latter's effect amplified by the upright angle of the windshield itself.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,526
5,258
I’ve been horned twice in two weeks while driving the speed limit in town. Was on a main streets both times… turned right and the car tailgating behind me blared the horn as it continued straight.

Car enthusiasts, please explain.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,016
7,914
Colorado
I’ve been horned twice in two weeks while driving the speed limit in town. Was on a main streets both times… turned right and the car tailgating behind me blared the horn as it continued straight.

Car enthusiasts, please explain.
Not going fast enough, obviously.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,016
7,914
Colorado
I think there are a few that allow you to select the noise. My stinger definitely plays the fake noise. And again, most people think more noise=more power.

Ultimately I think it's a good idea. The worst thing ever is the dumbass exhausts on trucks that are loud all the time, like on startup, idle, 20mph, 40mph, 60mph, etc. No one wants to hear that. It's just dumb when you aren't pushing the car. The next best thing is the valve-operated exhaust, like I have on the Camaro. Interestingly, that car does not have piped-in sound from the audio system, it has piped-in sound from an actual tube that runs from the intake to the cabin. I deleted mine though and later production years have done the same thing now standard. It really doesn't do anything and when you are pushing the car, you definitely hear the engine.

Wind noise screws with it, but we go windows-down most of the time for visibility of cones. Not so much due to the belt-line, but it encourages you to look left and right more, which helps a lot with planning.

Did I hear comes? Or was that just wind?
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,509
In hell. Welcome!
I’ve been horned twice in two weeks while driving the speed limit in town. Was on a main streets both times… turned right and the car tailgating behind me blared the horn as it continued straight.

Car enthusiasts, please explain.
Get your speedometer checked, our Beetle's off by ~10%.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,408
10,884
AK
I’ve been horned twice in two weeks while driving the speed limit in town. Was on a main streets both times… turned right and the car tailgating behind me blared the horn as it continued straight.

Car enthusiasts, please explain.
So here's what I do, if I'm coming home on my last mile stretch where the limit is 25, or I'm going to one of our parks with trails where the access road is all 25, and someone comes up on my ass, I just stick my hand out the window and wave them around. I don't care if it's a double yellow line or around a turn...I just wave them around.

It's also pretty hilarious to think about how dipshit this looks from outside, someone trying to go fast around a car that could whip them in an instant out on any kind of track...
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,526
5,258
So here's what I do, if I'm coming home on my last mile stretch where the limit is 25, or I'm going to one of our parks with trails where the access road is all 25, and someone comes up on my ass, I just stick my hand out the window and wave them around. I don't care if it's a double yellow line or around a turn...I just wave them around.

It's also pretty hilarious to think about how dipshit this looks from outside, someone trying to go fast around a car that could whip them in an instant out on any kind of track...
Ha! Nice.

In both cases I was on a busy city street. I suppose some folks are just special.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,260
10,174
So here's what I do, if I'm coming home on my last mile stretch where the limit is 25, or I'm going to one of our parks with trails where the access road is all 25, and someone comes up on my ass, I just stick my hand out the window and wave them around. I don't care if it's a double yellow line or around a turn...I just wave them around.
solid thinking....

i think i will start waving around tailgaiting ev drivers/bro dozer drivers....
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,260
10,174
I’ve been horned twice in two weeks while driving the speed limit in town. Was on a main streets both times… turned right and the car tailgating behind me blared the horn as it continued straight.

Car enthusiasts, please explain.
just put your middle finger to your lips and blow them a kiss...
 

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,228
2,541
The old world
It used to be there was a huge mileage discrepancy, since our 4-runner was usually in mid-teens for MPG, but now "crossovers" retain a lot of the ground clearance and ergonomic benefit without the huge hit in mileage and efficiency.
But isn't that due to advances in engine efficiency which would have an even greater impact with lower drag? With EVs, efficiency is even more important and there is hardly any proper hatchback as most of these crossovers go for a tear drop shape to bring down drag, which significantly reduces the cargo space I need.

I get the ergonomics argument and I would not begrudge anyone for making this part of their decision. But when interior space and car size are considered as well, I find crossovers and SUV hard to justify, or in the case of EVs, a bad compromise between space and efficiency/range. The ID4 is less extreme here than the Mach E and Model 3, but it would be nice to have to option of a lower car with more space and range at the expense of some comfort.

For instance, if we stay in the (gas powered) VW universe, if I wanted the same interior space as my Passat I would need a Touareq, which is substantially larger and weighs half a ton more. At least in Europe that's a major deal. (Pic is from the last gen, but you get the idea).

 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
17,440
14,944
Driving back from a ride on Saturday I think it was about 1 in 15 vehicles coming towards me was actually a car. Otherwise it was SUV's, pickups etc.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,408
10,884
AK
But isn't that due to advances in engine efficiency which would have an even greater impact with lower drag? With EVs, efficiency is even more important and there is hardly any proper hatchback as most of these crossovers go for a tear drop shape to bring down drag, which significantly reduces the cargo space I need.

I get the ergonomics argument and I would not begrudge anyone for making this part of their decision. But when interior space and car size are considered as well, I find crossovers and SUV hard to justify, or in the case of EVs, a bad compromise between space and efficiency/range. The ID4 is less extreme here than the Mach E and Model 3, but it would be nice to have to option of a lower car with more space and range at the expense of some comfort.

For instance, if we stay in the (gas powered) VW universe, if I wanted the same interior space as my Passat I would need a Touareq, which is substantially larger and weighs half a ton more. At least in Europe that's a major deal. (Pic is from the last gen, but you get the idea).

No, because the Cd is no longer *that* different where it matters. Not everyone is buying the biggest suv, the crossovers aren’t nearly as much of a brick.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,070
8,976
No, because the Cd is no longer *that* different where it matters. Not everyone is buying the biggest suv, the crossovers aren’t nearly as much of a brick.
Cd * frontal area is what matters

but given that fuel costs at our gas tax rates/lack of carbon tax are so little of the total cost of ownership it makes sense that cars are unpopular
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,408
10,884
AK
Cd * frontal area is what matters

but given that fuel costs at our gas tax rates/lack of carbon tax are so little of the total cost of ownership it makes sense that cars are unpopular
Yeah, but go back to my point above, the CUV/crossover things aren't really any more frontal area than a regular "car". Aerodynamics and other aspects have improved significantly with under-body paneling, airflow around the wheels, etc. Plus, most people living in cities where highway mileage is just not as important?
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,865
2,828
Pōneke
Anyway, buy smaller cars. If you’re so out of shape you can’t even get in and out of a car, you should do something about that! My neighbour is 87 with arthritis (and recently stopped driving due to eyesight, good on her) but could get in and out of her Mitsi Sedan just fine.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,408
10,884
AK
Anyway, buy smaller cars. If you’re so out of shape you can’t even get in and out of a car, you should do something about that! My neighbour is 87 with arthritis (and recently stopped driving due to eyesight, good on her) but could get in and out of her Mitsi Sedan just fine.
That's unique in the world of ergonomics. Old people can't do things like bend very far well and getting up and out of a car is especially challenging. Bravo to her, but that doesn't sound like the reality for a lot of people. I'm enjoying certain cars now, but I can always tell with my body that it won't last forever. Ever see an old person get up out of a low chair?
 

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,228
2,541
The old world
So what is that, an Atlas vs a Jetta? Why not a tiguan vs. a jetta or more like-sized vehicles?
Touareq vs Passat since they have comparable interior space and the Passat was my baseline. Tiguan would be comparable with a Golf Variant.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
13,253
5,300
Copenhagen, Denmark
That's unique in the world of ergonomics. Old people can't do things like bend very far well and getting up and out of a car is especially challenging. Bravo to her, but that doesn't sound like the reality for a lot of people. I'm enjoying certain cars now, but I can always tell with my body that it won't last forever. Ever see an old person get up out of a low chair?
Here I am thinking old people did fine before there were SUVs.

 
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Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,865
2,828
Pōneke
That's unique in the world of ergonomics. Old people can't do things like bend very far well and getting up and out of a car is especially challenging. Bravo to her, but that doesn't sound like the reality for a lot of people. I'm enjoying certain cars now, but I can always tell with my body that it won't last forever. Ever see an old person get up out of a low chair?
I do have a bit of a problem with the idea that a person's convenience/effort of getting into and out of a car would possibly be rated above the environmental impact of actually driving the car. Even if it's really hard, you can still get in the car. 1.5x the environmental impact just so you spare yourself a few seconds of mild discomfort...That's pretty fucking selfish shit right there...
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
42,139
19,567
Riding past the morgue.

Dirtrider

noah
May 2, 2006
1,643
2,761
Asheville, NC
I do have a bit of a problem with the idea that a person's convenience/effort of getting into and out of a car would possibly be rated above the environmental impact of actually driving the car. Even if it's really hard, you can still get in the car. 1.5x the environmental impact just so you spare yourself a few seconds of mild discomfort...That's pretty fucking selfish shit right there...
506B66A1-E88D-4608-A1EB-2131CD9D91F4.jpeg


Do you think this person is being selfish because the convenience of getting in/out of the vehicle rates higher than environmental impact of the shitty EPA rated Dodge Caravan being driven??
 
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