show me a better option for a fully electric car.
(says the driver of a shitty, non-man worthy accord hybrid with fucking roof racks)
The Car thread
- Thread starter 6thElement
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(says the driver of a shitty, non-man worthy accord hybrid with fucking roof racks)
Google ‘modern SUV rollovers’ if you really want a laugh.
like way way out, or just way out?
Tesla Makes More Money Trading Bitcoin Than Selling Cars
Bitcoin trading and regulatory credits, not auto sales, helped power Tesla to a record profit.
www.wsj.com
And please remember that I live in the same state where the damn company is located, and just up the road where employees of said company choose to have homes. My friends give their empolyees ski lessons, clean their houses, remodel those houses, bring them their groceries........ Telsa has some real dirty laundry as a company. Sorry but that's just the way capitalism works. And that company is all about capital.
I'll freely admit I have a hard time giving credit to a douchebag living off daddy's blood emerald money. But you have to open your eyes a little bit.
And you should know by now I already think beheadings are in order for the gas and auto companies that deliberately suppressed global warming data for decades. We can recognize douchery in both.
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That's a bit like saying 'show me a better full suspension carbon mountain bike in 1992, cuz this shit is incredible from a design standpoint!!!'
I mean, not from a riding or durability or repair standpoint........but in its own little microcosm inhabited by itself only, it's definitely the best carbon full suspension mountainbike in that room, in 1992.
Nissan Leaf? Chevy Bolt?
Not the claimed mileage of some of the teslas but not the price either. So I'd argue "better" in that they are more accessible, and hence more likely to be distributed to non-tech dorks. And I'd much rather trust those companies to do all the other car bits better. Those teslas are like driving by phone app. There's no reason whatsoever for half the shit they put on those things that just overcomplicate reliability.
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define 'best'
Tesla's New Steering Yoke Shows Little Benefit and Potential Safety Pitfalls - Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports tries out Tesla's new steering yoke
if 'best' = falling into the same basic design pitfalls on general car shit that everyone else knew to avoid for decades
okay. touche
Tesla started the S with a blank sheet. When you start to understand the engineering and system design in the cars since then, you will see the advantages that brings.
Toyota, VW, Ford etc. all have existing supply chains. Existing parts bins, existing ways of thinking. None of the existing companies would deal with Tesla so they had to work from scratch. All those other companies have cars that are more like Windows, stuff built on stuff built on stuff. Tesla doesn’t have that. It is, in engineering terms a far more elegant design. It might have a couple of fun/pointless extras in the software to entertain the small minded but from a mechanical and electrical pov it is a beautiful, focussed system compared to nearly any of these big legacy companies. Seriously watch a few of these Munro vids as a good primer. He’s a semi-senile old white guy with a list of prejudices as long as yours
but you’ll learn some stuff.
This is why the truly interesting EVs are coming from other new companies; the Croatians, some of the Chinese, all these people starting with the problem of how to make a good ev for 2025 and not how to transition their supply chain and stay profitable.
Teslas and these others are like your cannondale. They are the best ”EV”s in the room right now, and I think you’re both right and wrong about why (durability seems great, as does modular repairability) and who they actually appeal to (people who just want it to ‘just work’). Yes the Nissan and Bolt are cheaper and more ‘accessible’ but they are rigid hardtails still with Vs and a quill stem. Pick what you value. I want something that makes me a bit more excited about the future.
I’ve driven a few EVs now, and the model 3 is the easy, far and away standout so far for me. If you want a ‘classic car’ (why?) then the Audis are also great. I had a model 3 for a week and I loved it, very nearly bought one but yes it is still a lot of money that I’d rather spend on my house and kids and lifestyle. It’s not too big, faster than I could ever need, tons of range and loads of space. I haven’t driven a VW yet, and I still think for me the ID Buzz might be the best lifestyle choice but we’ll see. I also like the Rivian, it is also not too big and has a huge range, but realistically I have no need for a truck bed and the upcoming estate/van version is more attractive right now. Anyway, I digress and it’s bedtime…
Toyota, VW, Ford etc. all have existing supply chains. Existing parts bins, existing ways of thinking. None of the existing companies would deal with Tesla so they had to work from scratch. All those other companies have cars that are more like Windows, stuff built on stuff built on stuff. Tesla doesn’t have that. It is, in engineering terms a far more elegant design. It might have a couple of fun/pointless extras in the software to entertain the small minded but from a mechanical and electrical pov it is a beautiful, focussed system compared to nearly any of these big legacy companies. Seriously watch a few of these Munro vids as a good primer. He’s a semi-senile old white guy with a list of prejudices as long as yours
but you’ll learn some stuff.This is why the truly interesting EVs are coming from other new companies; the Croatians, some of the Chinese, all these people starting with the problem of how to make a good ev for 2025 and not how to transition their supply chain and stay profitable.
Teslas and these others are like your cannondale. They are the best ”EV”s in the room right now, and I think you’re both right and wrong about why (durability seems great, as does modular repairability) and who they actually appeal to (people who just want it to ‘just work’). Yes the Nissan and Bolt are cheaper and more ‘accessible’ but they are rigid hardtails still with Vs and a quill stem. Pick what you value. I want something that makes me a bit more excited about the future.
I’ve driven a few EVs now, and the model 3 is the easy, far and away standout so far for me. If you want a ‘classic car’ (why?) then the Audis are also great. I had a model 3 for a week and I loved it, very nearly bought one but yes it is still a lot of money that I’d rather spend on my house and kids and lifestyle. It’s not too big, faster than I could ever need, tons of range and loads of space. I haven’t driven a VW yet, and I still think for me the ID Buzz might be the best lifestyle choice but we’ll see. I also like the Rivian, it is also not too big and has a huge range, but realistically I have no need for a truck bed and the upcoming estate/van version is more attractive right now. Anyway, I digress and it’s bedtime…
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oh fuck yes, straight into my veins
the dubai plate just makes it so much better
think that expensive carburetor is a little rich
Good thing I see those shit wagons driving around here too in the most flammable forests on earth.
Wait until they start running on hydrogen.
can't hear ya'll over the rockin sounds of deliberate space trash!
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truly #blessed be alive on planet earth at the same time as such visionary genius.....squeeeeeeee
truly #blessed be alive on planet earth at the same time as such visionary genius.....squeeeeeeee
Tesla started the S with a blank sheet. When you start to understand the engineering and system design in the cars since then, you will see the advantages that brings.
Toyota, VW, Ford etc. all have existing supply chains. Existing parts bins, existing ways of thinking. None of the existing companies would deal with Tesla so they had to work from scratch. All those other companies have cars that are more like Windows, stuff built on stuff built on stuff. Tesla doesn’t have that. It is, in engineering terms a far more elegant design. It might have a couple of fun/pointless extras in the software to entertain the small minded but from a mechanical and electrical pov it is a beautiful, focussed system compared to nearly any of these big legacy companies. Seriously watch a few of these Munro vids as a good primer. He’s a semi-senile old white guy with a list of prejudices as long as yours
There's a lot of people that fail to see how huge this is. It's one thing to start a custom shop making a couple exotic cars in the 300K to millions every year, vs. starting an entirely new auto company with all the manufacturing and supply lines necessary. It's absolutely huge. It's great to help break the monopolies that exist, especially the dealer network BS. While there are disadvantages, the dealer network is a huge source of frustration for anyone buying a car or servicing a car. It's just such a bad experience all the time. It's set up to try and take advantage of people. Literally, it's set up to pad the pocketbooks and make people pay as much as possible through dishonesty and shady tactics. So just the scale of what Tesla has done is absolutely amazing and impressive. When I was a kid, EVs were a pipedream. Yeah, they tried that GM Saturn crap and it fell flat on it's face. The idea of a practical EV you could drive around every day was just fairy dust. Now they drive an hour to my race track and race against me and drive back home, in addition to everywhere else they are out driving. Every day they are driving. And in the end, the vast majority of people don't want a E30 M3, they just want to get from point A to B safely. They have kids, jobs, appointments, other crap and we've filled up their lives with so much stuff they don't need, there's no room for other stuff the don't need.
Zero emission vehicle market has TONS of room for growth and improvement. I'm very interested in it, but not sure where I could contribute right now.
Yes, it's that simple. Allegedly they should be a matching pair of batteries, same capacity, same brand, same age, I've done it with mixed batteries and didn't die, YMMV.
Dual batteries with a float charger and a heating pad on said batteries would be my set-up of choice for a rarely used snow-mobile hauler. Worth getting an isolator switch in there as well, if both batteries drain down what you've got is a twice-as-dead battery, so charging will take approximately 2 million years. I ran a selectable switch so that I could run my deep cycle battery to power the fridge/radios while waiting for the race truck, then switch over to the starting battery, fire it up, and then to both batteries to charge while driving.
Now, back to arguing about Elon.
If its snowing Im driving it daily. Its more this right now period that it sits unused in the cold.
My secret reason is that I also want to put a snowplow on it to make parking and berm in teslas.
My secret reason is that I also want to put a snowplow on it to make parking and berm in teslas.
Tesla started the S with a blank sheet. When you start to understand the engineering and system design in the cars since then, you will see the advantages that brings.
Toyota, VW, Ford etc. all have existing supply chains. Existing parts bins, existing ways of thinking. None of the existing companies would deal with Tesla so they had to work from scratch. All those other companies have cars that are more like Windows, stuff built on stuff built on stuff. Tesla doesn’t have that. It is, in engineering terms a far more elegant design. It might have a couple of fun/pointless extras in the software to entertain the small minded but from a mechanical and electrical pov it is a beautiful, focussed system compared to nearly any of these big legacy companies. Seriously watch a few of these Munro vids as a good primer. He’s a semi-senile old white guy with a list of prejudices as long as yours
Ok, now I'm here to join the Musk bash-fest.
This is absolutely spot-on, and also kind of the problem with Tesla. They didn't have enough legacy car building know-how to make a really awesome piece of hardware, hence the quality issues you see all over the internet. What they did have was the best concept for how an electric car should work, I say that because it's true, and also because here we are 10 years later and every other manufacturer is starting to copy Tesla with dedicated EV platforms. Every new EV is marketed as a "Tesla Killer", you don't benchmark against dog-shit, you benchmark against the best on the market. Most of the new Tesla Killers are competitive, though not entirely better, you can talk all the shit about Tesla you want, but the fact that 10 years down the road the legacy brands can only manage a competitive product, and not a superior one says something.
Musk is a great big asshole, but he's got a point with everything he does. There's not an Auto CEO past or present who's not a tremendous douche-canoe, but there are a lot of them that are monumental morons, at least Musk hasn't had to be smuggled out of Japan in a suitcase to avoid fraud charges. He pushed back against a universal charger, but you have to remember that at the time, he was the only one with a viable EV on the market. Maybe he should have put his ego in check, maybe the other manufacturers should have just adopted his standard since it was already fairly popular? Was is a plot on Musk's part to dominate the EV charging market? Probably, but does it matter?
He open-sourced most of his IP because he wanted other manufacturers to catch up, but nobody used it. Maybe it's because Tesla tech isn't that good, but again, nobody has anything better, so how bad can Tesla really be?
The company isn't profitable, that's a legit knock against them. If it weren't for Dogecoin and carbo credits they'd have been gone long ago. People get mad at Musk for making his money off carbon credits, but is he really the villain in that story? Or is he maybe just profiting off a bad regulation exploited by shitty legacy manufacturers who can't get their shit together?
Tesla is not trying to break monopolies, they try to create one on their own. The Apple of cars. Charger networks exclusiv to their products, cars that cannot be repaired by an independent shop, no spare parts for DIY folks, expensive software upgrades to unlock features that are already build in your car, senors in the car that decide if you are still allowed to drive it after e.g. an accident, constant data transfer to Tesla servers, etc.
If you sell me a car then I want full ownership and control over it and not something that if Elon Musk doesn't like one of your tweets he can stop from working.
Tesla is also not as green as everyone wants to believe. They are interested in profits and would do everything for that, no care taken for the environment if it doesn't fit in their marketing strategy. See e.g. here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-gigafactory-germany-protests-idUSKBN1ZH0KM
They are a car company after all.
Sure, all that.
But theres still way too many proprietary digital app systems that make them impossible to work on. Make a car not a video game. I just dont see how anyone can be for environmental concerns and not recognize how much planned obsolecense is built into those things, by design.
Just build a fucking car with an electric motor. Not a remote controlled vr experience with a steering wheel. Especially when youre stumbling on the steering wheel part.
I just had dinner with ohio, one of the founders of alta last night. They had to design literally everything from the ground up, regarding motors, battery, and frame. But they spent a lot of time deliberately incorporating as much as possible regarding everything else from existing tech. For a reason....to make them last, and to make them user serviceable.
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I have heard multiple stories from the industry that when picking suppliers that Musk will automatically disqualify certain companies based solely on how they dress. That is solid leadership right there.
The safety records in their factories are atrocious with multiple cover ups to hide those facts. It would seem that employees are put under great pressure to perform and disregard their personal safety.
The safety records in their factories are atrocious with multiple cover ups to hide those facts. It would seem that employees are put under great pressure to perform and disregard their personal safety.
correct
some of the performative shit hes made people go through in both the bay area plant, and the battery factory outside of reno is absurd, and borderline psychotic.
And none of it has to to with designing or building good cars.
Tesla is another investor propped concept right now that could fall on its face at any moment. pets.com with a maaco paint job
but the car can make fart noises! FART NOISES!
It's like a fucking meme with four wheels.
"Hey, what if we took away 40% of the steering wheel?"
"Some asshole will still buy it, just you watch"
"LOL K" and here we are- seven internet dudes defending papa musk yet again.
I work at a building that won a few Toyota jobs a couple of years ago. They were strict and looked at everything, even how the operators worked doing the smallest of tasks. They did it right and actually seemed to care about what they were investing in.
From what I see and from talking around, part of the issue people have with Tesla and Musk, is that a lot of the people buying Tesla's don't give a crap about the environment and they certainly aren't buying an electric car because of that. These are the same people that upgrade to the latest phone, just because. You can spot them taking up a charging spot at the mall, while sitting in view at the nearest artisanal coffee cafe drinking a $7 cup of poo.
We need to change thread title to "room full of angry old men"
This what BMW and everyone else is doing right now. They are locking down features, moving to pay-apps, making them harder to crack.
That's businesses. There are boats to be purchased and 2nd homes to be left empty.
Lets not also forget he is moving HQ to Autin to avoid taxes, environmental regulations, and human rights while still being surrounded by self absorbed douche canoes.
Failed to observe his poor pun.What the hell did I do now?
Am I being punished?
you're about to be if don't connect those very obvious dots
You mean the ellipses that I didn’t add to my comment?
And yet there is a workshop narry a few kms from me where people are doing just that daily, and the internet is filled with Tesla retrofits, part bakes and conversations.
Sorry think you’re totally wrong about this. It’s just a new skillset, not an impossible one. Again, watch some Munro, take a look at all the people who are doing conversions. It’s an extremely modular build. The car is entirely hackable, rip apart-able if you have the right skills. Just because it’s new and not many people have them yet isn’t an argument. Your blacksmith couldn’t change the oil in a model T.
Alta is a completely different beast. Of course they are using off the shelf stuff, they have nothing like the scale or money and are building bikes which is a totally different problem. Also didn’t they go bust?
Yes this sucks, but CEOs gonna CEO, and self absorbed — well. That’s the American dream, fool. You better recognise.
An increasingly less accessible one?
They are rich. Tesla is still expensive. You hate rich people. Fine.
If you wanna keep nailing iron to horses feet, be my guest.
The entire world gets more complicated every day. Every skillset in nearly every discipline is becoming more down it’s own rabbit hole. It’s concerning for a number of reasons but is slso how humanity is progressing and the new talent for lots of us is to be able to understand what important about managing and steering that complexity and the teams that deliver it.
Suuuuure: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a33660589/rich-benoit-tesla-rich-rebuilds/
BTW: my local independent car repair shop told me they are not allowed to do anything on a Tesla besides changing wheels/tires and wipers. No spares, no support, no technical documents. They can work on e.g. BMW i3s and such and get spares no problem. Makes you think, doesn't it?
Not for long, see my link above. BMW is moving ahead with the same thing.