The Car thread
- Thread starter 6thElement
- Start date
Yes, contortions. I read the article bro.
What I keep wondering is why people like you hate on an American company, with American manufacturing that has literally lead the way on a hugely necessary transition in the automotive industry as a way to help literally keep life on this planet viable?
Can you explain, because it sounds like your reasons are things like; Their early cars had QC issues so fuck them forever? You don’t like Elon Musk? You don’t like led brake lights? You don’t like some of the other people who drive them? Maybe elucidate us further because those are dumb reasons my dude.
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I mean Elon is a pretty big douche. And LED brake lights a just a little too bright.
I mostly hate tesla because their fans are just so insufferable. You constantly find excuses to like an objectively shitty company that makes objectively shitty cars. They have an objectively douchey CEO and objectively bad business practices. And yet you always make excuses for it. "Elon can make everything 420.69 because it's for the greater good". "I will gladly put a deposit down on vaporware because it's electric vaporware". Yes, they are new and different and tech-bro compatible, but they aren't particularly good cars and even if they were, it's OK to be critical of tesla and hold them to the same standard as everybody else...but you won't, because Tesla fans are just the absolute worst.
Imagine the biggest car nut on the planet- the guy who swears that Honda is so much better than Toyota because VTEC, yo. Then give them an air of superiority because it's an electric car. Then remove all technical knowledge to make them even more insufferable. That's your average Tesla fan. Imagine being a dave mathews band fan but feeling the need to convince EVERYBODY ELSE that DMB is the best band in the world. There's no discussion with you, no conversation. It's just that Tesla is the best and everybody else is the worst and HOW DARE YOU POINT OUT THE PANEL GAPS.
Also, I freely acknowledge that Tesla anti-fans (read: haters) are just as obnoxious but on the opposite side of the aisle.
Just saw a Maverick. Kinda good looking. Good size for a city car for someone who wants a truck. A small Transit van would still be more useful, but will probably get people who would buy lower level Ranger's and Colorado's.
Dude I am getting one as soon as I have the cash stacked and the commercial canopy is available. I carry pressurized gases for work and also need to squeeze into corners on jobsites. FX4 trim take my money! If it came in a manual transmission I would take out a loan and buy it now.
Look at rates vs. value of invested cash. Usually investing the cash on hand and making payments is net benefit to you. Rates for cars are so low it's hard not to make money that way.
I had about 1/4 of the cash on hand to buy the Audi earlier this year, but the 2.87% rate I'm paying pales in comparison to the 26% I've made on the money already. It's already flattened out 50% of the total cost I will spend on the interest and we're 4 months in. Especially if you get a 5yr loan, your timeline for the investment is super long. Using someone else's money to make money is the best way to make money.
Just so we are on the same page I tried to get a loan earlier in the year and it turns out I didn't have a credit score. I've always been a have cash will buy kinda guy. As a result I don't have a lot of stuff. I've always had company vehicles and housing. The nitty gritty of investing and interest rates is like dunking my head in a bucket of paint. I haven't ever had extra cash to toss down rabbit holes I don't understand or can control.
I would need an education before I would take 35k and not spend it on a truck and invest it and still buy the truck.
I would need an education before I would take 35k and not spend it on a truck and invest it and still buy the truck.
That's different then. If you can't get a low rate loan, then it's moot. If you can get a 2-4% loan, then it's a different conversation.
Example:
$25k for the truck
Ability to save: $800/m
Bank acct savings rate .5%
Investment RoR 8% (S&P500 index)
5 year loan
Loan rate 4%
- Cash option
-- Takes ~32 months to save $25k
-- Accrued Interest: $617
-- Total cost: $24,383
- Loan and invest option
-- Monthly payment: $461
-- Total interest expenses: $2,625
-- Amount invested each month: $800-$461=$339
-- Total growth over 5 years: $4,569
--- Total cost of car: $25,000-$4,569=$21,431
You take on some risk, but you're able to keep your money working for yourself. Low rate debt can be leveraged for your advantage.
Things I have on debt and invested instead:
- new garage storage cabinets at 0%: $2000
- mtge refinance fees wrapped up into loan at 2.5%: $2500
- new sofa 0%: $1800
- Audi down payment fees 2.87%: $9,000
- few others
I total out about $20k that's invested instead of paying off, despite having the option to. Way more positive result for me.
I follow a similar path as our resident gorilla financial not-an-advisor. I consider my investments a cash stream except for long term retirement funds. I use those hopefully stable gains to pay off purchases.
you people are weird
House was uninsurable as it sat so had to go to the farm for a cash loan.
They definitely build it into the price of things. We tend to be mindful of "normal" prices on things we're interested in and wait until there are sales and/or beneficial credit events. That way we can tell if they are increasing prices for those sale events. We've called the sales person out on stuff like that before and gotten the price adjusted down while still getting the beneficial financing.
I use an X-year timeline for purchases for my assumptions.
Wifey gets mad that I pay our healthcare expenses at a 0% interest payment plans. I invest 100% of our HSA, never spending the money, so all of our healthcare is out of pocket. At that point, it's all about cash flow - especially when we're in a High Deductible Health Plan for $7000 oop max.
There is typically a difference in insurance rate based on ownership status right? And probably some negotiating power with a cash payment.
Anyway, interesting technique. Definitely not for me. Curious what the “risk” side of these calculations look like.
I mean, if you only use liability when you own the car outright. That's fine and dandy when the car is worth <$3k, but any value above that and I can't see how you could reasonably justify not getting comprehensive.
And there is zero negotiating power with cash. Dealers make money on financing. They will give no flexibility on price when they know you are paying cash.
3%/5yr on $25k is $4k in interest. Same on $24k is $3,790. From the dealer's perspective, I yield $1k up front, it only actually costs me $800, but still make almost $3k in interest and whatever my mark-up on the car is. $25k up front, they only get the mark-up - why give up price? Buying in cash doesn't matter because they still get paid by the bank immediately, so they have no overhead concerns due to principle exposure.
Your best option when buying a car is to have outside financing already in place. Imply you will finance, but make it clear that the car price and how you plan pay for it are two different transactions. If you really want to lead them on the financing front, bring a financial calculator and do the math on monthly payments while you're negotiating - just know your max px in advance. They will often work to adjust the px to get to a monthly that you're okay with. Once you have the price number agreed upon, the finance guy will give his spiel and throw in whatever bullshit rate he has. Drop your pre-approval letter from the credit union and tell them if they can beat it by .25%, you'll use their financing. **Make sure to check every number on the contract 2x*** Once you sign, call your CU and tell them you bot a car at X% and want to know what perks they have to move to them. You should be able to get a few bps lower still or a $100-200 credit from them.
I've done it with 3 cars now and while it takes some time, you can lever rates really low, so as to keep your money invested. You just have to be willing to be a bit of an asshole, in the politest manner.
As for risk, it's market volatility. It's that in near-term the mkt might go down and it's a temporary loss. But, if we're talking 5yr timelines for a car, it's less consequential. And even when I'm doing things like my sofa, I'm keeping that $1800 invested real-time, and making money off of it. You have to have the cash flow to maintain payments if the investment value goes down temporarily.
On your Green E Car Bullshit
"Congo just pawn in game of life" (Cudos to Mel Brooks)
www.nytimes.com
"Congo just pawn in game of life" (Cudos to Mel Brooks)
A Power Struggle Over Cobalt Rattles the Clean Energy Revolution (Published 2021)
The quest for Congo’s cobalt, which is vital for electric vehicles and the worldwide push against climate change, is caught in an international cycle of exploitation, greed and gamesmanship.
Yeah, this is one way they make money, with kickbacks from the local bank they get to finance the car.
They don't give a damn if someone pays cash or not, it does nothing to the price. The dealer wants to make some money and they aren't going to make a lot by selling at MSRP and they are going to start taking hits if they are taking big discounts off that. Yes, there is some lee-way there, but it doesn't work like people think. The dealer buys a car for a price from the mfr, yes, it's a little cheaper than "dealer invoice", but things like discounts are not really up to the dealer, they are generally manufacturer incentives that the dealer then "applies" to the car, and the dealer has to be "reimbursed" by the manufacturer for the incentive credits. The dealer is on the hook to sell their inventory, not the manufacturer, who has already moved it. The salesperson is often totally ignorant to the incentives, because again, those really come from the manufacturer, not the dealer, so you sometimes have to twist their arm to get them to apply totally valid incentives. They usually have no issue doing it, they are just oblivious to the fact that they exist much of the time, since it doesn't help them make more money.
But yeah, always get pre-approved, sometimes your insurance can have decent rates, sometimes it's worth it joining an CU just for their rates. Mostly, I'd just suggest waiting around until the dealer offers some of the traditional good rates, like 0, 0.9, 1.9, etc. The catch is you need real good credit, but if you are one of those "I don't use credit" guys, get a damn CC and buy all your bike stuff with it and pay it off as soon as you buy stuff. If you do it right, you get airline miles at the same time for vacation. I don't keep any balance on my CC, but I use it in this way.
And always negotiate price first, before talking about finance or payments. IF you do finance through a dealer, remember they are going to try and lead you down the path of paying over the longest amount of time, because that compounds the interest for the longest and makes them the most money.
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On the one hand great...on the other, killing the manual transmission, back in the 70s...
When by? They should be getting close to releasing their new supercharged two stroke 4cyl engine.
If they do it with their gensets that will be the birth of the perpetual motion machine, woohoo!
stoney, maybe you can help me out here. when I bought the Genesis, I used dealer financing. The rate wasn't horrible (3.8) but my credit score (883) can do way better. They wouldn't accept BofA at time of sale and I didn't want to walk away and come back with other finacing. Every time I've looked into refinancing in the past, I cant beat the rate I already have. Is there a way to switch financing now (two weeks out from purchase) that will get me a better rate?
Refinance with a local CU. Do a Google search for 4-5 local ones to see who has the best rates, then call/apply. This took me 2 min to pull up - 2.49%. If you're not registered yet, you might be able to get approved and lock rate, then just stay in communication while waiting for the state to finish their processing so that you can register. It took us 2 months on the Audi.
even with my shit credit I got a killer rate from our CU. I have a $8 savings account with them and use them for all sorts of crap.This. I have $45 in our savings account and a safe deposit box there, transferring just enough monthly to pay the Audi payment.
The normal credit score range goes to 850 so not sure what kangaroo business is going on there
and refinance with DCU. 1.49%, no origination fee, done.
Auto Refinance Loans | DCU
Learn how moving an existing auto loan to DCU can reduce your payment, save you interest, or both.
www.dcu.org
a $10 donation suffices for eligibility if you aren’t in their local organizations
...and a nice layer of dust
Interesting... I might have a few phone calls to make next week.The normal credit score range goes to 850 so not sure what kangaroo business is going on there
and refinance with DCU. 1.49%, no origination fee, done.
Auto Refinance Loans | DCU
Learn how moving an existing auto loan to DCU can reduce your payment, save you interest, or both.
a $10 donation suffices for eligibility if you aren’t in their local organizations
That doesn't sound right. How would they "not accept" a check for the car? (basically what BofA does, cut a check for the cost of the car, your finance is through BofA). It is normal for factory (mfr) incentives to only apply if you finance through the mfr, but otherwise that sounds bizarrely wrong. They don't care where the funds come from to buy the car. Essentially, BofA is buying the car, you are paying them back.