[ghostrider]

In the highly unlikely scenario where there actually is a god or two "up there", He or They must be mighty disappointed in the antics of Their people down here on this particular planet. Hopefully He or They have a few other planets He or They have not 'told' us about where things are going better.

 

[Echo]

Maybe there isn't just one God. Maybe there are several Gods and they all hate each other. But instead of arguing on internet forums, they inspire their followers to bludgeon each other.

 

[Ciaran]

Maybe there isn't just one God. Maybe there are several Gods and they all hate each other. But instead of arguing on internet forums, they inspire their followers to bludgeon each other.

My God will moderate all the other gods asses! Oppression reigns on GawdMonkey.

 

[Tenchiro]

My God will moderate all the other gods asses! Oppression reigns on GawdMonkey.

Where is your god now?!?​

 

[DaveW]

My god is now vomiting in the toilet...... I pray that when he/she/it returns you shall be on the reciving end of one hell of a holy smiteing!

 

[MikeD]

My god is now vomiting in the toilet...... I prey that when he/she/it returns you shall be on the reciving end of one hell of a holy smiteing!

At least yours made it to the toilet. Mine left a steaming puddle on the carpet.

God isn't dead. He just puked in my room.

MD

 

[Silver]

You guys are lucky. My god just walked out of my bathroom with a crusty gym sock. I want to trade gods.

 

[DaveW]

No deal.

See if you can swap yours for Allah maybe?

 

[The Amish]

 

[DirtyDog]

OH LOL, now thats funny! If a muslim was wearing a shirt like that about the bible, I'd laugh. If I was wearing that shirt, I'd get kidnapped and murdered on video so my family could watch. Just cultural differences I guess!

 

[Changleen]

My local (Wellington region) paper printed them this morning. LOL.

However Denmark, and the other countries where the cartoons have been reproduced, including in Britain by the BBC and in newspapers in France, Switzerland, Spain, Italy and Germany, are not Muslim countries.

They are democratic, secular countries which are not ruled by religious dogma, whether it be Muslim or Christian.

They have the same values as New Zealand, which includes the right to free speech in its Bill of Rights. There is an acceptance that people can write and say what they wish – except in tightly defined circumstances – even if others are offended by it, and that being shocked can be part of the price for being informed.

Frankly, in this case the Muslims can **** right off. Freedom of speech is very importnat, and if they are too backwards to understand that, screw em. I feel like wearing a Cartoon T to the Sevens today!

 

[Changleen]

There have been earlier cultural confrontations between the West and a resurgent Islam, beginning with the death sentence pronounced in 1989 on author Salman Rushdie for The Satanic Verses, and including the murder in 2004 of Dutch film-maker Theo van Gogh after he made a film dealing with violence against Islamic women.

They are confrontations the West cannot afford to lose. The right to freedom of speech is a precious one that has to be defended.

12345

 

[surfinguru]

I was trying to think of the equivalent anti-Christian blasphemy. Perhaps Christ in a B52 dropping bombs on a mosque; would Christians find that offensive?

Maybe so, but do you honestly think you'd see thousands of Christians the world over congregating and chanting death to whoever drew the cartoon? I think not.

Anyone that doesn't believe we are in the midst of a religeous war needs to open their eyes and look around a little more.

 

[The Amish]

Maybe so, but do you honestly think you'd see thousands of Christians the world over congregating and chanting death to whoever drew the cartoon? I think not.

Anyone that doesn't believe we are in the midst of a religeous war needs to open their eyes and look around a little more.

I absolutely agree, although I think its a bit of a one sided religous war. We could care less about the religous end of the deal we just wants the oil, they on the other hand wanna **** us up cause there still fightin the crusades. Its been 2000 years, give it up already. As for christians congregating it will never happen. To people with even a shred of common sense this is all water under the bridge

 

[Silver]

Maybe so, but do you honestly think you'd see thousands of Christians the world over congregating and chanting death to whoever drew the cartoon? I think not.

Anyone that doesn't believe we are in the midst of a religeous war needs to open their eyes and look around a little more.

Christians don't have the ferocity of faith to do it until someone screws around with their income. You'll note it wasn't that long ago that a religious leader in this country who has access to the White House was calling for an assasination to be made on a democratically elected leader.

 

[Changleen]

On the BBC, there are a series of cooments by various influential people involved in this debate:

Dr Lam Akol is the Sudanese foreign minister. Sudan called for a boycott of Danish goods and called off the visit of a Danish minister:

There is a problem in that you need to be mindful of what other people think and believe and feel. The world is becoming like a village, you can't suppress what is being published in the West from the Third World.

It is very important when people want to promote religious dialogue and co-existence to avoid such issues.

In the Third World they hardly separate between what is a journalist and what is the Danish government's point of view.

Once a Danish paper has published something then it is concluded that this is the opinion of everybody in Denmark. So that is the kind of feeling that should have been understood from the beginning.

If the world is 'like a village', then for people to conclude that the voice of a paper represents the nation is pretty lame and they need to grow up.

Frankly I don't see that Muslims have a leg to stand on in this one.

 

[surfinguru]

You know, I was thinking about this some more this afternoon, and I think part of the sensationalism (protests in third world locations) is due to what we called the "telephone" game. I would say "most" of the people demonstrating probably don't even know the whole story or haven't even seen the cartoons. All they know is: "Oh, the West has defamed Alah. Death to the infidels...lalalalalala" as the guns go off in the background.

Now as far as the diplomats, people within the media etc. chiming in, well, they are obviously serving their own religeous beliefs or their own hatred of the West (USA). Unfortunately, by the Dane's firing this guy and CNN deciding not to show the cartoons, they've only add ammunition to the Islamist and allows them to continue the attack against Christianity and the West in general.

Personally, I think they need to get over it and let whomever's god really turns out to be in charge, settle things when each of us face our time of atonement. It's a big ol' world out there and there's room for everyone. All aboard!!!

 

[MikeD]

You know, I was thinking about this some more this afternoon, and I think part of the sensationalism (protests in third world locations) is due to what we called the "telephone" game. I would say "most" of the people demonstrating probably don't even know the whole story or haven't even seen the cartoons. All they know is: "Oh, the West has defamed Alah. Death to the infidels...lalalalalala" as the guns go off in the background...

...they've only add ammunition to the Islamist and allows them to continue the attack against Christianity and the West in general.

Personally, I think they need to get over it and let whomever's god really turns out to be in charge, settle things when each of us face our time of atonement. It's a big ol' world out there and there's room for everyone. All aboard!!!

You've also got to realize our window on the Muslim reaction is framed by the media. We're seeing tiny clips of very angry fanatics on TV from lots of different places...we really don't know what the mainstream and/or mass opinions are. The protests will draw cameras, and the camera footage will be cut down to the most intense and arresting of 5-second images, and then we see most of them.

Still, based on the political reactions alone, there's a major overreation to the cartoons, esp. from countries in which racist cartoons, images, and teachings about other cultures and religions are taught in public schools.

Definitely agree with the fact that they need to get over it. I don't know whether it's a cultural persecution complex or a cultural superiority complex, but they need to take what they can give (as countries, even...and in this case, the offensive material is from a private citizen, not a government).

Our (including my) use of the word 'they' in this context, however, still bears some analysis; it reveals a lot about how we shape our opinions.

MD

 

[narlus]

You've also got to realize our window on the Muslim reaction is framed by the media. We're seeing tiny clips of very angry fanatics on TV from lots of different places...we really don't know what the mainstream and/or mass opinions are. The protests will draw cameras, and the camera footage will be cut down to the most intense and arresting of 5-second images, and then we see most of them.

agreed to a small extent, but then again instances of embassy attacks, mass public demonstrations, expelling of diplomats, boycotts of danish goods/services, and calls for death...they are not isolated to one spot.

so much for Islam being the 'religion of peace'. this definitely hurts their cause considerably, in the 'winning the hearts and minds' campaign anyway.

there was a good op-ed piece in the WSJ yesterday written by female muslim. basically her point is that the fundamentalists want religious tolerance for themselves but don't practice this in reciprocity.

another point which is a bit strange is that the uproar is for a blasphemous representation of Mohammed, who as far as i can tell shouldn't be rendered as an image, so that worship of false idols is prevented. last i checked, the editorials weren't depicting Allah; who is your false idol now?

 

[TheMontashu]

This whole thing is kinds over the top, but then again it is the muslem world, they are to Fin backwards to know what is up. For example palistinians are burning european union offices and taking out workers there, even though the EU is the single largest doner to palistinel. Maybe the EU will stop sending money and the palistinians will put themselfs in an even worse position.

 

[valve bouncer]

The thing that gets me, and I'll expand on something that MikeD brought up here, is that we're not seeing the whole picture, from the Muslim side or from our side. Imagine, for a moment, that this Danish cartoonist had drawn a cartoon of some African guys standing around a big pot with some poor unfortunates in it in an attempt to make, for example, a point about the horror happening in the Congo right now. We would, quite rightly, be expressing our disgust at such an obviously racist image, instead of going on about the importance of free speech.
Now that for not a moment excuses the burning of embassies and other outrages. What has happened is a total over-reaction and the inability of the authorities in those countries to protect diplomatic premises is inexcusable. However it does not also excuse the blatantly over the top depictions of this cartoonist. Freedom of speech is not absolute, it comes with limits. These cartoons first appeared back in September last year but this present nastiness didn't really start properly until a number of newspapers saw fit to spread these images far and wide. It seems that more than a few editors have said, in effect, more than just f*ck you we'll print what we want, but f*ck you Muslims. Of course the cynical will say that this stance will sell more newspapers but editors wouldn't stoop to that level, would they?

 

[TheMontashu]

While I do agree with you, the muslem news papers in arab countries frequently print far more racist and antisemetic things against israel and the U.S. and no one in israel or over here seems to be very outraged, as well the far left in the media depict very hatefull things against bush.

 

[valve bouncer]

While I do agree with you, the muslem news papers in arab countries frequently print far more racist and antisemetic things against israel and the U.S. and no one in israel or over here seems to be very outraged, as well the far left in the media depict very hatefull things against bush.

Of course the idiotic anti Israel rhetoric can't be condoned and they are hypocrites for saying it. Things like this though send the message that we're just as stupid.
Criticism of Bush from western (leftist) media is a non-sequitir in this situation as it's coming from within the culture so to speak.

 

[Silver]

The thing that gets me, and I'll expand on something that MikeD brought up here, is that we're not seeing the whole picture, from the Muslim side or from our side. Imagine, for a moment, that this Danish cartoonist had drawn a cartoon of some African guys standing around a big pot with some poor unfortunates in it in an attempt to make, for example, a point about the horror happening in the Congo right now. We would, quite rightly, be expressing our disgust at such an obviously racist image, instead of going on about the importance of free speech.
Now that for not a moment excuses the burning of embassies and other outrages. What has happened is a total over-reaction and the inability of the authorities in those countries to protect diplomatic premises is inexcusable. However it does not also excuse the blatantly over the top depictions of this cartoonist. Freedom of speech is not absolute, it comes with limits. These cartoons first appeared back in September last year but this present nastiness didn't really start properly until a number of newspapers saw fit to spread these images far and wide. It seems that more than a few editors have said, in effect, more than just f*ck you we'll print what we want, but f*ck you Muslims. Of course the cynical will say that this stance will sell more newspapers but editors wouldn't stoop to that level, would they?

I don't think that is the case. Those cartoons are not over the top. Over the top is Larry Flynt's fake ad about Falwell losing his virginity in an outhouse to his mother.

You can also make the argument that if Saudi Arabia and Libya hadn't recalled ambassadors from Denmark and if the artists hadn't received death threats, this molehill never would have turned into a mountain.

About the hypothetical racist images: Do you think that would have stirred the pot this much? Also, big difference between a black person and a Muslim. Only one is born that way and can't change.

 

[Changleen]

Now that for not a moment excuses the burning of embassies and other outrages. What has happened is a total over-reaction and the inability of the authorities in those countries to protect diplomatic premises is inexcusable.

From the AP:

The fact that the biggest riots occurred in the Syrian capital and in Beirut also raised questions: Syria has an extensive security network to make sure that little happens inside its borders without the approval of the national leadership.

 

[Andyman_1970]

As for religious humor that makes fun of religion (be it in cartoons, editorials, or comedians).......it's some of my favorite humor esspecially when directed at Christians or about Christians.....because most of the time it's accurate.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

another point which is a bit strange is that the uproar is for a blasphemous representation of Mohammed, who as far as i can tell shouldn't be rendered as an image, so that worship of false idols is prevented. last i checked, the editorials weren't depicting Allah; who is your false idol now?

I believe there is a prohibition against representations of Mohammed as well.

 

[narlus]

I believe there is a prohibition against representations of Mohammed as well.

right...so who is more important, allah or mohammed, or are they on equal footing? i don't pretend to know much about islam, but this would seem to be at odds w/ the 'false idolarty' prattle, no?

 

[DirtyDog]

The thing that gets me, and I'll expand on something that MikeD brought up here, is that we're not seeing the whole picture, from the Muslim side or from our side. Imagine, for a moment, that this Danish cartoonist had drawn a cartoon of some African guys standing around a big pot with some poor unfortunates in it in an attempt to make, for example, a point about the horror happening in the Congo right now. We would, quite rightly, be expressing our disgust at such an obviously racist image, instead of going on about the importance of free speech.
Now that for not a moment excuses the burning of embassies and other outrages. What has happened is a total over-reaction and the inability of the authorities in those countries to protect diplomatic premises is inexcusable. However it does not also excuse the blatantly over the top depictions of this cartoonist. Freedom of speech is not absolute, it comes with limits. These cartoons first appeared back in September last year but this present nastiness didn't really start properly until a number of newspapers saw fit to spread these images far and wide. It seems that more than a few editors have said, in effect, more than just f*ck you we'll print what we want, but f*ck you Muslims. Of course the cynical will say that this stance will sell more newspapers but editors wouldn't stoop to that level, would they?

Being outraged is OK. Murder, terrorism, burning of buildings etc... I think you can see the difference.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

right...so who is more important, allah or mohammed, or are they on equal footing? i don't pretend to know much about islam, but this would seem to be at odds w/ the 'false idolarty' prattle, no?

I don't think it's a case of who is more important. If I'm correct, then there's simply a prohibition on either one being represented, end of story. Either case could represent idolatry to Muslims.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry#Muslim_views_of_idolatry

Here's some more on idolatry from Wikipedia, which may not be the best source around, but I'm having trouble finding other sources at the moment.

 

[valve bouncer]

Being outraged is OK. Murder, terrorism, burning of buildings etc... I think you can see the difference.

I noted that quite specifically in my post. My point is that there is a difference between defending free speech and being needlessly provocative. In the rush to defend the values of the West we run the risk of trampling on the beliefs of others.

 

[Echo]

Sometimes I wonder if the word "hypocrite" even exists in Arabic. Maybe they just don't understand the concept of hypocracy.

 

[The Amish]

Sometimes I wonder if the word "hypocrite" even exists in Arabic. Maybe they just don't understand the concept of hypocracy.

lalalalalala

 

[DaveW]

The Islamic culture unlike the western culture has no tradition or history of religous criticism and debate. Expecting damm nearly a thousand years of cultural norms to be displaced in a matter of a couple of decades of exposure to modern mass media based western culture is a pretty suspect expectaton.

But I do wonder as this is quite obviously an occurance that they find insulting and not just criticism...... Just where is the line between the two?

Insult (bad) and criticism (good and healthy)??

 

[The Amish]

I suppose your right, There was a time in our pretty short american history where people were burned at the stake over this kinda ****. I still dont see why we cant make fun of em over it though

 

[BurlyShirley]

Just keep the nukes out of the muslims' hands please.

 

[The Amish]

at any cost!

 

[Silver]

Just keep the nukes out of the muslims' hands please.

You are aware that Pakistan has them? And we keep selling them F-16s.

That horse has left the barn already.

 

[The Amish]

yea but they'll only make it as far as india and india will gladly toss em back. There too busy hatin each other to worry about the rest of the world. Kashmir, what a hole