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The Death of a City...

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,844
11
So Cal
Victim: "I don't treat my dog like that," 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. "I buried my dog." He added: "You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."

Bush: "I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this ? whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."

I think that says a lot. Bush is more concerned with punishing people than helping people.
 

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,042
1,257
Jimtown, CO
This is insane. I cant even really comprehend the full scale of it all. I hope the Big Cheese is OK.

I hope NOLA bounces back. We have spent a lot of time there & almost went a couple of weeks ago but opted for Pisgah.
 

hooples3

Fuggetaboutit!
Mar 14, 2005
5,247
0
Brooklyn
Ciaran said:
Victim: "I don't treat my dog like that," 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. "I buried my dog." He added: "You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."

Bush: "I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this ? whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."

I think that says a lot. Bush is more concerned with punishing people than helping people.
well what choices do you have when people are breaking the law and causing anarchy. and he isnt choosing between the two.. he is doing both.
why its better to help them and just let the rampage go on??? those people looting and causing meyham should put that much effort into helping others
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,844
11
So Cal
TN said:
This is insane. I cant even really comprehend the full scale of it all. I hope the Big Cheese is OK.

I hope NOLA bounces back. We have spent a lot of time there & almost went a couple of weeks ago but opted for Pisgah.
I agree... I can't even begin to comprehend the situation and what people must be going through. I have heard it said that this was te disaster that those folks feared most. Kinda like living in SoCal and waiting for "The Big One" (earthquake).

I really feel horrible for the people of New Orleans. I hope that they can find some semblense of a normal life very soon.

hooples3 said:
well what choices do you have when people are breaking the law and causing anarchy. and he isnt choosing between the two.. he is doing both.
why its better to help them and just let the rampage go on??? those people looting and causing meyham should put that much effort into helping others
My point is that in the face of all this he does not talk about offering help to the people, or compassion, he talks about "lawlessness" and punishment.
 

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,042
1,257
Jimtown, CO
Ciaran said:
Victim: "I don't treat my dog like that," 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. "I buried my dog." He added: "You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."

Bush: "I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this ? whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."

I think that says a lot. Bush is more concerned with punishing people than helping people.
Yesterday the Mayor of NOLA ordered 1500 NOPD officers off of search & rescue missions to deal with looters. Do you know how many lives 1500 officers could save? Its not like those stores arent going to claim a total loss of inventory anyway. Its F'ing ridiculus.
 

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,042
1,257
Jimtown, CO
Bullitrider said:
We responded faster with the Tsunami...IN INDONESIA!!!!!!
yeah, but over 200,000 were killed there...different scale of destruction.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,699
40
seattle
pfft...

and you thought your government cared about your well being.....:rolleyes:

*takes a sip of Kool Aid..... :oink:
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,844
11
So Cal
narlus said:
look at other cities (dresden, for example)...it'll be fine in a few years i am betting.
Oh man! Dresden! That place took a beating. And you know, not many people know about it... I mean, everyone remembers pearl harbor and Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but few people remember or know that Dresden was bombed really bad... while many allied POW's were there.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,935
3,758
Sleazattle
narlus said:
look at other cities (dresden, for example)...it'll be fine in a few years i am betting.
The problem with NO is the location, we are supposed to be in a 20 year period of major hurricane activity. It was only a matter of time before this happened and only a matter of time until it happens again. They need to fill in about 50 feet of low lying land or rebuild a protection system designed to take a direct class 5.
 

hooples3

Fuggetaboutit!
Mar 14, 2005
5,247
0
Brooklyn
Ciaran said:
My point is that in the face of all this he does not talk about offering help to the people, or compassion, he talks about "lawlessness" and punishment.
know what i was at ground zero for 3 months... almost all of it on my own off duty time... the national guard, army , navy police from all over were there.. what where they doing?? mantaining order. it was the poeple of ny, and fire and rescue that were in the trenches looking for survivors.. i was there , i dug with my bare hands.. i wasnt there to loot or anything like that.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,844
11
So Cal
hooples3 said:
know what i was at ground zero for 3 months... almost all of it on my own off duty time... the national guard, army , navy police from all over were there.. what where they doing?? mantaining order. it was the poeple of ny, and fire and rescue that were in the trenches looking for survivors.. i was there , i dug with my bare hands.. i wasnt there to loot or anything like that.
I think you are still missing my point.
 

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,042
1,257
Jimtown, CO
narlus said:
TN, i kinda disagree. i think that returning order to chaos (of which looting etc is major part) is of supreme importance.
why is that?

life<inventory @ at Piggly Wiggly?
:confused:
These people havent had food or water since Sunday. It is basic survival to seek out food & h2o.
 

hooples3

Fuggetaboutit!
Mar 14, 2005
5,247
0
Brooklyn
Ciaran said:
I think you are still missing my point.
i think I got your point .. i am just bringing out another. most of what i know about whats going in is from what i read.. I havent seen much tv on the whole thing. I understand that you feel that he should be more conserned about the people then the lawlessness. I agree.. but he is here to run a country as well. although he might not have come out and said it i am sure he is concered about the welfare of the people
 

I Are Baboon

Run, Forrest, Run!
Aug 6, 2001
29,457
2,028
MTB New England
I remember watching a Discover Channel program a few years ago on hurricanes, and they were describing what could happen to NOLA if a cat 5 storm hit. Man, they were spot on. :(
 

BikeGeek

BrewMonkey
Jul 2, 2001
4,407
56
Hershey, PA
TN said:
why is that?

life<loss of inventory @ at Piggly Wiggly?
:confused:
These people havent had food or water since Sunday. It is basic survival to seek out food & h2o.
You're right that life is more important, but there is more to the chaos than just looting. People are freaking out. There are reports that rescue helicopters are being shot at. I've read accounts of helicopters not landing to help wounded because of mobs of people waiting to rush aboard once it touched down. People aren't thinking, they're in full-on self-preservation mode.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
exactly, BG. TN, i was kinda trying to draw a parallel of how NYC cleaned up it's subway system and the violence. 1st step was to remove all graffiti and keep it removed. that helped set a tone which helped get rid of the larger problems.

not sure it would work in this savage environment.
 

Hawkeye

Monkey
Jan 8, 2002
623
0
Naperville, IL
TN said:
yeah, but over 200,000 were killed there...different scale of destruction.

But the property loss will be the same if not more here. The US was blasted for it's slow response and lack of funds given to tsunami effort. There isn't too much that can be done right now. The levees need to be patched before the water can get out. Until that happens it's going to be slow going.

People are looting down there and if the police don't make an effort to stop them the store/homeowners will. The old west vigilanty mentality of justice in the US is still alive and kicking.

If you are shooting at people who are trying to help you do you deserve to be helped?

For every person who says "I don't treat my dog like this" "Bush can't get our army here to help" there are 10 others who are undermining the rescue effort by blasting off shots at swift boats and helo's that are there.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,844
11
So Cal
hooples3 said:
i think I got your point .. i am just bringing out another. most of what i know about whats going in is from what i read.. I havent seen much tv on the whole thing. I understand that you feel that he should be more conserned about the people then the lawlessness. I agree.. but he is here to run a country as well. although he might not have come out and said it i am sure he is concered about the welfare of the people
Ahh, I understand. My apologies. I seem to have missed YOUR point.

Yes, I believe that he probably is concerned with people... it would take a very very evil person to look at the scenes from NO and not feel compassion. And he is not here to RUN the country, he is here to help GOVERN the country and HELP it's people. The people of our nation should come first no matter what. The extraordinary nature of this disaster requires extraordinary response. Which many many people have demonstrated. Just not him.

But it's just my opinion... your milage may vary
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,287
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Looting was fine when it only involved stores and what not. They have moved on from that. They are now stealing from rescue workers, hospitals and fellow victims. That changes the tone and the importance of stopping it.
 

Hawkeye

Monkey
Jan 8, 2002
623
0
Naperville, IL
TN said:
why is that?

life<inventory @ at Piggly Wiggly?
:confused:
These people havent had food or water since Sunday. It is basic survival to seek out food & h2o.

I understand that getting water and food is worth looting for. but what about the plasma tvs and new nikes that people are looting?
 

luken8r

Monkey
Mar 5, 2004
565
0
Melrose MA
TN said:
why is that?

life<inventory @ at Piggly Wiggly?
:confused:
These people havent had food or water since Sunday. It is basic survival to seek out food & h2o.
personally, i think the looting of food from the local foodmart is OK. these people need to eat and drink. you cant just have them waste away and starve. the entire city's water supply is tainted and you can only go 2-3 days without h20
on the other hand, all these jerkoffs stealing tvs and nikes should be shot on site.
and shooting at the twirlys that are trying to airlift them out? wtf is up with that? bring in the armed nat guard copters and return fire.

as for the health of NO as a city, it is too important as a US commerce hub to just let go. its the busiest port in the country and one of the top 5 in the world. all mid west shipping imports and exports need to travel through the city. the longer its out of comimission the more farked we are as a country. heres what needs to go down

1) rescue thoes in the most dire of needs and *want* to be helped
1a) let the looters sort themselves out, the dissentary and cholera will take care of them.
2) repair levys
3) dredge river shipping channels if needed
4) start bailing

this is the discussion that i was having with my boss this morn. for the ~50k who were in teh dome and now moved to houston, how many of htem do you think will just stay in texas? everything they have, or had, is wiped out. they will probalby want to stay in houston to avoid something like this in the future, so why go back? whats this going to do for the houston economy? its giong to flood their lower waged market with too many people vying for not enough jobs, so what are they going to do with them all? the astrodome has freed its schedule until DECEMBER, so they are expecting them to stay for that long.
 
I'm no Dub-Ya lover but come on guys. When the looting and lawlessness impedes the rescue attempts then resources have to be diverted to control the situation.
Please don't use this situation for political cheap shots.
I just spoke to my sister and guards had to be positioned at all the hospitals b\c bands of armed thugs are looting hospitals of all meds and what not.
Stuff that is used to help injured people ya know.
Thats just for starters.
Medivac choppers trying to land on the helipad at hospitals and armed guys are on the roof and shooting at the chooper.
This is not a "nice" situation and the dredge of NewOrlens society that is what's raping girls in the superdome ,stealing and causing havoc.
Going and looting gunstores of the bat as opposed to the bottled water section is what i'm talking about.
You guys don't grasp how ghetto and thugish the element of people who are roaming the streets at will are and what their up to.
At some point all that slows down the rescue and if it requires a redirection of resources then so be it.

If John Kerry was doing the same steps Bush was would you all still be pissing about Georgie boy?

Probably not.
And i voted for Kerry by the way.

As a native of the "dead city" i would be helping people right now not stocking up on stolen electronics,appliances,guns,etc..if i where there right now.

Got it?
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,818
1
Slacking at work
DRB said:
Looting was fine when it only involved stores and what not. They have moved on from that. They are now stealing from rescue workers, hospitals and fellow victims. That changes the tone and the importance of stopping it.
Exactly.
 

hooples3

Fuggetaboutit!
Mar 14, 2005
5,247
0
Brooklyn
Ciaran said:
Ahh, I understand. My apologies. I seem to have missed YOUR point.

Yes, I believe that he probably is concerned with people... it would take a very very evil person to look at the scenes from NO and not feel compassion. And he is not here to RUN the country, he is here to help GOVERN the country and HELP it's people. The people of our nation should come first no matter what. The extraordinary nature of this disaster requires extraordinary response. Which many many people have demonstrated. Just not him.

But it's just my opinion... your milage may vary
no apologies necessary .. just talking here.. iam open to anything someone has to say, it doesnt mean i have to agree with you or the other way around. i believ bush feels what he is doing is helping the country
 

hooples3

Fuggetaboutit!
Mar 14, 2005
5,247
0
Brooklyn
DRB said:
Looting was fine when it only involved stores and what not. They have moved on from that. They are now stealing from rescue workers, hospitals and fellow victims. That changes the tone and the importance of stopping it.
what echo said
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,287
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9159903/

Doctors at two desperately crippled hospitals in New Orleans called The Associated Press Thursday morning pleading for rescue, saying they were nearly out of food and power and had been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters.

“We tried to airlift supplies into Kenner Memorial Hospital late last evening and were confronted by an unruly crowd with guns, and the pilots refused to land,” he said.
So quit preaching about saving lives. Restoring order is NOW the only way that is going to happen.

Read the article and this discussion end.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,935
3,758
Sleazattle
Why do people keep bitching about the price of gas while others pretty much fight for food and shelter?