wumpus, you are talking about damage to spacecraft and citrus fruit...New Orleans has thousands of houses underwater.Wumpus said:
The Death of a City...
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
SkaredShtles said:CLASSIC!
So is this the first or second time NO has sank into the swamp?
ink:
huh?5Bullitrider said:
OK, I see where you are coming from.Bullitrider said:
you didnt get my point. Once again...see my "pathetic" comment to n8.
They were there. They left.TN said:
Look there are only so many ways into NO right now. Many one lane roads. Would you rather get the people out or supplies in?. We already know what happens to the Helos when they come in..they get shot at. They can't very well drop water pallets in there as the people on the ground have already showed that they will kill each other to get at it.
There is no good answer to the problem. The people that are on the ground nned to stop the violence before anything will get better.
These people don't look like they lived under a citrus tree. A year later and still living in a makeshift shelter.narlus said:
As far as NO: Why don't you place the blame where it lies with the idiots that are attacking the rescuers and the other civilians trying to get the hell out of there?
OK...I am getting tired of saying this. NOLA has tons of people living below the poverty level. most whom cant afford a car or had anyway out of the city.Hawkeye said:
i never said that there wasn't significant housing damage in the other NC/FLA storms, but it's not the same scale as this. the property damage estimate for this storm are just a SWAG right now, but the amount of people displaced or trapped is pretty clear, and it's a lot worse than the storms you mentioned.Wumpus said:
not sure i'm placing the blame anywhere, if this query was directed to me. i'm certainly not advocating that shooting at rescuers is a good idea.Wumpus said:
as neither am I.narlus said:
I just dont think you understand the desperation of these people.
There are different types of desperate people commiting crimes.TN said:
Some of the looters were stealing medical supplies from drug stores for their surgical wounds, or a loaf of bread for their family. Not exactly Al Capones here.
On the other hand, other thugs are walking around with AK47's shooting, raping, and robbing people simply because they can.
The problem with this is that SOME shortsighted azzholes group all these people together, therefore they do not have the sympathy for these people that they should have. The majority of them just want to be rescued out of hell.
Jeremy R said:
And killing the looters is the only way help is going to come.
do you think Halliburton will get the toilet reclamation contract?
Yeah good point.narlus said:
Man has basically enhanced the storm damage with development on the coast.
The pertroleum industry has hacked up the natural barriers for decades in the extraction for it.
Did a whole college thesis on it at UNO (university of no longer NewOrleans).
Then there's the whole containment of the mississippi issue which is why we have such high flood walls,flood gates,locks and levees.
IN the old days the river would just overflow each flood season and redeposit sediment to the delta areas.
I've been seeing this brewing for along time.
The conditions were so ripe for all the chaos socio-ecomically and environmentally from about the last century.
How's your family doing?LOOnatic said:Yeah good point.
Man has basically enhanced the storm damage with development on the coast.
The pertroleum industry has hacked up the natural barriers for decades in the extraction for it.
Did a whole college thesis on it at UNO (university of no longer NewOrleans).
Then there's the whole containment of the mississippi issue which is why we have such high flood walls,flood gates,locks and levees.
IN the old days the river would just overflow each flood season and redeposit sediment to the delta areas.
I've been seeing this brewing for along time.
The conditions were so ripe for all the chaos socio-ecomically and environmentally from about the last century.
Corps: Lack of funds did not contribute to flooding
By Andrew Martin and Andrew Zajac Washington Bureau
Fri Sep 2, 9:40 AM ET
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Thursday that a lack of funding for hurricane protection projects around New Orleans did not contribute to the disastrous flooding that followed Hurricane Katrina.
In a telephone interview with reporters, corps officials said that although portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way--inundating much of the city--were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.
However, they noted that the levees were designed for a Category 3 hurricane and could not handle the ferocious winds and raging waters from Hurricane Katrina, which was a Category 4 storm when it hit the coastline. The decision to build levees for a Category 3 hurricane was made decades ago based on a cost-benefit analysis.
"I don't see that the level of funding was really a contributing factor in this case," said Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, chief of engineers for the corps. "Had this project been fully complete, it is my opinion that based on the intensity of this storm that the flooding of the business district and the French Quarter would have still taken place."
Strock also denied that escalating costs from the war in Iraq contributed to reductions in funding for hurricane projects in Louisiana, as some critics have suggested. Records show that corps funding for the Louisiana projects generally has decreased in recent years.
Several critics, including a former head of the Corps of Engineers, suggested in a Tribune story Thursday that the flooding in New Orleans could have been less severe had the federal government fully funded projects to improve the levees and drainage in the city.
Congress in 1999 authorized the corps to conduct a $12 million study to determine how much it would cost to protect New Orleans from a Category 5 hurricane, but the study is not scheduled to get under way until 2006. It was not clear why the study has taken so long to begin, though Congress has provided only in the range of $100,000 or $200,000 a year so far.
Al Naomi, senior project manager in the corps' New Orleans District, said it would cost as much as $2.5 billion to build such a system, which likely would include a massive network of gates to block the Gulf of Mexico from Lake Pontchartrain and additional levees. If the project were fully funded and started immediately, Naomi said it could be completed in three to five years.
A project to build up the levees to withstand a Category 3 hurricane was launched in 1965 after Hurricane Betsy and was supposed to be completed in 10 years, but it remains incomplete because of a lack of funding.
In recent years, funding has dropped precipitously, which some officials attributed in part to the escalating costs of the Iraq war. Funding for a drainage project in New Orleans went from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in the current fiscal year, while funding for such hurricane protection projects as levees around Lake Pontchartrain declined from $10 million in 2001 to $5.7 million this year, according to figures provided by the office of Sen. Mary Landrieu (news, bio, voting record) (D-La.).
Funding for these projects generally has trended downward since at least the last years of the Clinton administration. Congressional records show that the levee work on Lake Pontchartrain received $23 million in 1998 and $16 million in 1999. It was not clear how much the drainage project received in 1998, but records show it received $75 million in 1999.
Neither the White House nor the Corps of Engineers would confirm the numbers, nor would they provide funding levels dating to previous administrations.
By Andrew Martin and Andrew Zajac Washington Bureau
Fri Sep 2, 9:40 AM ET
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Thursday that a lack of funding for hurricane protection projects around New Orleans did not contribute to the disastrous flooding that followed Hurricane Katrina.
In a telephone interview with reporters, corps officials said that although portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way--inundating much of the city--were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.
However, they noted that the levees were designed for a Category 3 hurricane and could not handle the ferocious winds and raging waters from Hurricane Katrina, which was a Category 4 storm when it hit the coastline. The decision to build levees for a Category 3 hurricane was made decades ago based on a cost-benefit analysis.
"I don't see that the level of funding was really a contributing factor in this case," said Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, chief of engineers for the corps. "Had this project been fully complete, it is my opinion that based on the intensity of this storm that the flooding of the business district and the French Quarter would have still taken place."
Strock also denied that escalating costs from the war in Iraq contributed to reductions in funding for hurricane projects in Louisiana, as some critics have suggested. Records show that corps funding for the Louisiana projects generally has decreased in recent years.
Several critics, including a former head of the Corps of Engineers, suggested in a Tribune story Thursday that the flooding in New Orleans could have been less severe had the federal government fully funded projects to improve the levees and drainage in the city.
Congress in 1999 authorized the corps to conduct a $12 million study to determine how much it would cost to protect New Orleans from a Category 5 hurricane, but the study is not scheduled to get under way until 2006. It was not clear why the study has taken so long to begin, though Congress has provided only in the range of $100,000 or $200,000 a year so far.
Al Naomi, senior project manager in the corps' New Orleans District, said it would cost as much as $2.5 billion to build such a system, which likely would include a massive network of gates to block the Gulf of Mexico from Lake Pontchartrain and additional levees. If the project were fully funded and started immediately, Naomi said it could be completed in three to five years.
A project to build up the levees to withstand a Category 3 hurricane was launched in 1965 after Hurricane Betsy and was supposed to be completed in 10 years, but it remains incomplete because of a lack of funding.
In recent years, funding has dropped precipitously, which some officials attributed in part to the escalating costs of the Iraq war. Funding for a drainage project in New Orleans went from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in the current fiscal year, while funding for such hurricane protection projects as levees around Lake Pontchartrain declined from $10 million in 2001 to $5.7 million this year, according to figures provided by the office of Sen. Mary Landrieu (news, bio, voting record) (D-La.).
Funding for these projects generally has trended downward since at least the last years of the Clinton administration. Congressional records show that the levee work on Lake Pontchartrain received $23 million in 1998 and $16 million in 1999. It was not clear how much the drainage project received in 1998, but records show it received $75 million in 1999.
Neither the White House nor the Corps of Engineers would confirm the numbers, nor would they provide funding levels dating to previous administrations.
WHY DIDN'T YOU DEPLOY THE BUSES DURING THE MANDATORY EVACUATION, MAYOR?...
An aerial view of flooded school buses in a lot, Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005, in New Orleans, LA. The flood is a result of Hurricane Katrina that passed through the area last Monday.(AP Photo/Phil Coale)
N8 said:
Shouldnt they have planned to build those to whistand a cat 6 hurricane?
Last time I checked he is the Mayor of a City. I dont know of many city officials that have power over county or state assets. (such as those buses).N8 said:
Hindsight is 20/20, these people were told to leave, wether they were unable or unwilling doesnt matter. They were there, and they needed help.
The help was slow (or ineffective) to come from the Federal level.
And now for DRB, some Good news...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina_94
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina_94
Not to whiz on y'alls lil' Friday celebration but...
http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_nolaview/archives/2005_09.html
http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_nolaview/archives/2005_09.html
That is chilling. I pray these people get help NOW.N8 said:Not to whiz on y'alls lil' Friday celebration but...
http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_nolaview/archives/2005_09.html
I'm not sure I believe this tale:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randall-robinson/new-orleans_b_6643.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randall-robinson/new-orleans_b_6643.html
holy crap....those are about the hardest things I could ever read.N8 said:Not to whiz on y'alls lil' Friday celebration but...
http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_nolaview/archives/2005_09.html
The Ito
"Hell no, I'm not glad to see them. They should have been here days ago. I ain't glad to see 'em. I'll be glad when 100 buses show up," said 46-year-old Michael Levy, whose words were echoed by those around him yelling, "Hell, yeah! Hell yeah!"
"We've been sleeping on the ... ground like rats," Levy said. "I say burn this whole ... city down."
yeah...that's the attitude
it's tragic how unprepared the federal/state and local government was for a storm of this magnitude. and it's also sad that, in this day and age, we're still dealing with racist weather patterns that target only black communities it's hard to sympathize with the quoted attitude, especially when rescue helicopter are being shot at.
there should be no limit to our assistance of these poor souls involved in this tragedy, but those selfish facks sporting the "burn the city down" attitude, well......eff 'em.
"We've been sleeping on the ... ground like rats," Levy said. "I say burn this whole ... city down."
yeah...that's the attitude
it's tragic how unprepared the federal/state and local government was for a storm of this magnitude. and it's also sad that, in this day and age, we're still dealing with racist weather patterns that target only black communities
it's hard to sympathize with the quoted attitude, especially when rescue helicopter are being shot at. there should be no limit to our assistance of these poor souls involved in this tragedy, but those selfish facks sporting the "burn the city down" attitude, well......eff 'em.
the Inbred said:
i was hoping they'd ask for volunteers from the pd to go and help. i know we've done it in the past.
We did eff them. We've been ****ing them up the ass for 5 days. Funny how when they complain a little bit about being stranded without food, water, or sanitation, they turn into uppity niggers...manimal said:
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm heading off to the local homeless shelter to tell those lazy ****ing assholes to get a job. It's for their own good...
edit: C'mon, if anyone has earned the right to bitch, it's the people around the Superdome and Convention Center.
KMA you arrogant prick. how would you feel if you were a rescue worker getting shot at for trying to help and then being cursed because you're not getting the job done fast enough.Silver said:
it's not a race issue. it would be a race issue if N.O. was some kind of post-slavery reservation that was placed purposefully in a sub-sea level flood plain.
Yes, because the dead lady in the wheelchair that's been rotting for a few days outside the superdome was shooting at rescue workers.manimal said:
You're not bitching about someone who shot a person. You're bitching about a person bitching about being abandoned in a nightmare for 5 days.
And quite frankly, he's got a bit more of a bitch pass than you do.
Well, that is not surprising. What else could they say, "We f*cked up. How we suppose to know a Cat 4 hurricane was going to hit? We just built the levees to Cat 3 standards..."N8 said:
There should be an independent query on this debacle, and I await its opinion.
good news....well, for my worries at least. finally heard from my mom after she and my aunt went looking for family in pascagula, MS. they found my aunt's parents (adopted aunt), they're house is gone but they're stubborn and won't leave. my mom is an RN and stopped by the hospital to see if she could help. she did what she could but said that all of the ventilator and dyalisis patients died and they had to put them into an unrefrigerated box truck outside of the hospital.
she was able to call via her cell phone by driving out of town a bit and getting on top of an overpass. she said that she had no problem at all getting into the town on wed afternoon and that the looting isn't much of a problem where she's at as it's mainly a retirement community and they're police force is still functional.
anyway, she'll be heading home on monday and i'm super glad to know she's safe.
she was able to call via her cell phone by driving out of town a bit and getting on top of an overpass. she said that she had no problem at all getting into the town on wed afternoon and that the looting isn't much of a problem where she's at as it's mainly a retirement community and they're police force is still functional.
anyway, she'll be heading home on monday and i'm super glad to know she's safe.
It's understandable, though, isn't it? I mean everybody's playing the odds. The people/gov't was playing the odds that storms that huge would continue to miss NO.manimal said:
The people/gov't are playing the odds that a *massive* quake won't strike L.A. Or San Fran.
They're playing the odds that a quake/tsunami/Rainier eruption won't hit the PNW.
They're still playing the odds that a Cat 5 won't hit Houston.
Scarce resources - they've decided to do other things with them. In this case it turned out badly. Really badly.
Hopefully we'll learn some things from this. Like don't build a city in a swamp. Surrounded by massive bodies of water above the level of the city.
But I doubt it.
OK....on the shooting at the choppers issue...here is what I have to say.manimal said:
They might not have been shooting at the the choppers, but just trying to get the choppers attention. If I saw a chopper 1/2 a mile away & had my dieing children, wife, mother, etc.. & I wasn't sure if the chopper saw me & I had a gun, it makes sense that if I had a gun I would use it to get their attention of the chopper pilot.
Dont go rushing to conclusions.
Yes, but after the city has been evacuated & the victims have been taken care of.sanjuro said:
International assistance: