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The Economy (2019?)

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,145
1,108
01776
Can the rich convince the poor to vote for the guy who will benefit them the most? That's really the question here. Can they buy enough votes with their money to get trump reelected?

Everybody knows a vote for the Ds is going to be bad for the uber wealthy. It'll be good for literally every industry in America aside from the military and for literally everything else, but it's gonna be bad for the top
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,418
1,826
AK
Can the rich convince the poor to vote for the guy who will benefit them the most? That's really the question here. Can they buy enough votes with their money to get trump reelected?

Everybody knows a vote for the Ds is going to be bad for the uber wealthy. It'll be good for literally every industry in America aside from the military and for literally everything else, but it's gonna be bad for the top
Of course they can, when they control all adds/media. People are convinced keeping guns is more important than treating cancer.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
28,135
4,124
Riding the baggage carousel.
Can the rich convince the poor to vote for the guy who will benefit them the most? That's really the question here. Can they buy enough votes with their money to get trump reelected?

Everybody knows a vote for the Ds is going to be bad for the uber wealthy. It'll be good for literally every industry in America aside from the military and for literally everything else, but it's gonna be bad for the top
It's called "The Southern Strategy".

“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.” ― Lyndon B. Johnson


 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
4,686
2,341
Plus he's about to be rich anyway because of all that trickle down, so he's not going to want to give it away.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
5,250
1,384

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,145
1,108
01776
yeah I suppose that's a bit of an exaggeration...I guess I just think the lack of multi-front tradewars and a re-invigoration of positive relations with allies as a mutually, globally beneficial thing.

I still don't buy medicare for all, but I certainly don't have a better solution
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,409
24
Bay Area, California
$52T is a crazy number from Warren. The problem is the company layoffs that will accompany it. They are estimating 2 million layoffs if this were to happen. At that point you're reaching into the "we won't tax the middle class" pockets to help fund this. I do agree our healthcare system needs a lot of work to become more affordable, but I see going after the uber wealthy and big corporations will end up backfiring. I predict large corporations leaving and the billionaires moving their money out of the country to get around it, leaving everyone else to foot the bill. Anyways, Warren & Sanders wont be elected as they are way too left for this country at this point & time if not indefinitely.
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
31,765
2,686
$52T is a crazy number from Warren. The problem is the company layoffs that will accompany it. They are estimating 2 million layoffs if this were to happen. At that point you're reaching into the "we won't tax the middle class" pockets to help fund this. I do agree our healthcare system needs a lot of work to become more affordable, but I see going after the uber wealthy and big corporations will end up backfiring. I predict large corporations leaving and the billionaires moving their money out of the country to get around it, leaving everyone else to foot the bill. Anyways, Warren & Sanders wont be elected as they are way too left for this country at this point & time if not indefinitely.
has anyone whispered anything about the 20 odd trillion dollars we are in debt.....how does it work out with all pie in the sky healthcare for all....or have i missed something....
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,246
2,117
$52T is a crazy number from Warren.
has anyone whispered anything about the 20 odd trillion dollars we are in debt.....how does it work out with all pie in the sky healthcare for all....or have i missed something....
Are you guys being intentionally obtuse? The price tag out of context doesn't matter if it displaces existing spending of the same amount... existing spending that includes 20% overhead just to pad insurance companies' profit.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,418
1,826
AK
has anyone whispered anything about the 20 odd trillion dollars we are in debt.....how does it work out with all pie in the sky healthcare for all....or have i missed something....
Not sure if you noticed, but we are rolling in cash, giving tax cuts and buying F-35s.

Fuck it all, at least go into debt for something worthwhile.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,418
1,826
AK
$52T is a crazy number from Warren. The problem is the company layoffs that will accompany it. They are estimating 2 million layoffs if this were to happen.
Trump just made 330k jerbs. At this rate, I’m not sure why you are concerned with jerbs, we have jerbs for all.
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
31,765
2,686
Not sure if you noticed, but we are rolling in cash, giving tax cuts and buying F-35s.

Fuck it all, at least go into debt for something worthwhile.
our chinese overlords might have us all making nikes at some point.....that is all....
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
31,765
2,686
Since your retirement == 401k and tied to the playground of the wealthy schmucks a.k.a. the stock market casino, you are fucked and nothing is ever going to change.
retirement/401k.....what fairytale is that....i will work until im dead....fine with it.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,409
24
Bay Area, California
The only reason Bernie wont be elected is because the media have made you believe this bullshit.

I dare you to watch this podcast he did with Joe Rogan and come up with something you would honestly disagree with.

Watched it, he’s still a complete wacko! Sorry, he’s not solving the problem, he wants to be the modern day Robin Hood, unfortunately it doesn’t work that way. Want to start helping? Cut foreign aid, stop supporting illegals, and put all that money saved into health care. The problem is, punishing corporations, will only result in a disaster. They’ll do mass layoffs, affecting everyone. Look at Venezuela, Bernie gets his way you’ll see some similarities, and not the good ones.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Watched it, he’s still a complete wacko! Sorry, he’s not solving the problem, he wants to be the modern day Robin Hood, unfortunately it doesn’t work that way. Want to start helping? Cut foreign aid, stop supporting illegals, and put all that money saved into health care. The problem is, punishing corporations, will only result in a disaster. They’ll do mass layoffs, affecting everyone. Look at Venezuela, Bernie gets his way you’ll see some similarities, and not the good ones.
Ive been trying to come up with an anwser to this the whole day and for the first time in my life Im speechless.

I dont think youre dumb. So either you havent watched the video. Youre too indoctrinated and an absolute fundamentalist thats beyond any reason or youre the best fucking troll teh monkey has ever seen...

If the latter’s the case, I applaud you.
If not...

Still speechless.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,418
1,826
AK
You are going on record here saying that you support socialized medicine.
Nice work, you commie.:dance:
Really though, it’s all socialized medicine, it’s just a matter of where you want to draw the line. Should I be paying more because fatty-fats are part of my insurance pool and keeping my premiums high? What about if heart disease is congenital in my family and I can’t do a damn thing about it? In every case, we rely on the “pool” of the insured to bring the cost down, in other words, the healthy people fund the lazy fatasses and other groups that are unhealthy. And it’s not like some sort of an on/off switch, either healthy or unhealthy, the human body doesn’t work like that. Sure there are the uninsured, but even regular health care is built on socialism principles, as well as the principle of corporations making profit from your cancer (rather than being non-profit like the NFL).
 
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Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,409
24
Bay Area, California
You are going on record here saying that you support socialized medicine.
Nice work, you commie.:dance:
Lol, I’m for some sort of health care reform. Its way too expensive, especially after Obamacare went into action, but over taxing to achieve this is not the answer. Trying to take money from the ultra wealthy and large corporations will backfire. The point I’m trying to make is utilize the money we already have. Everyone wants to compare our healthcare to the government run Canada & Sweden’s systems for example. That’s fine, my question is, do those countries allow illegal immigrants to just move in and reap the benefits like they do here in the US? How much in foreign aid are they providing to other countries? Have you looked at the numbers on what the US spends on that alone? It’s not pretty. Then add in the able bodied Americans that are too lazy to work and rather collect a welfare check. Do you know what the tax rates are in the countries with free health care? I’m not 100% sure but isn’t it in the range of 40-45%? Those were the numbers that I heard, correct me if I’m wrong.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
28,135
4,124
Riding the baggage carousel.
If only there was some mechanism by which you could fact check all of the bullshit you "hear". Perhaps you could even use such a tool to post to your favorite mountain bike website/forum one day!


 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,409
24
Bay Area, California
Ive been trying to come up with an anwser to this the whole day and for the first time in my life Im speechless.

I dont think youre dumb. So either you havent watched the video. Youre too indoctrinated and an absolute fundamentalist thats beyond any reason or youre the best fucking troll teh monkey has ever seen...

If the latter’s the case, I applaud you.
If not...

Still speechless.
Out of curiosity, have you taken a good look at Bernie’s supporters? Lots of millennials mixed with 40-50+ year old people, that don’t own a home and don’t have a lot to begin with. Many of them have “toilet paper degrees”. Those are degrees, that can’t get you a real job in life, but hey! I went to a very prestigious college! But at the end of the day, all you can do is wipe your ass with it, because it’s useless in real life. I’m not saying you’re one of them, maybe I’m stereotyping. However, these are typically the ones I see supporting Bernie, so of course free stuff sounds very appealing. I’m 53, growing up, but my grandfather and father would always tell me, nothing is for free, you want it? Bust your ass and work for it! To this day, I’m still crawling under rat shit infested homes working my ass off. It sucks! wish I would have finished college, but at the time, I was making more money at the time than my friends with degrees, so I got sucked into construction (this was in the mid 80’s). however, I live a very blessed life because of it. Sorry, but I’m very stuck in my ways, but feel the Republican Party has always benefited my family in the past as well as present. So I stick with what works for me, friends and family.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,246
2,117
I’m a 37 year old Harvard grad, and a gainfully employed physician. I support Bernie. How again am I a deadbeat per your convenient stereotype?

Not all people only look out only for their personal short-sighted interests.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
I pretty much agree with everything you just said. (Except the fact that youre completely discarding the group of large group of voters that most of us on ridemonkey represent)
But Im not going to base my vote on who else is voting for said candidate.
To follow your logic every racist, xenophobe and selfish piece of shit votes republican. But thats not stopping you from voting for them.

Ive worked hard every day of my life as well, and still do. Started when I was 15 and Im now 39 and had my own business for most of that time.

Not saying I never got help, but I like to think i did most if it by myself.
Lots of people dont have that opportunity.
Wether thats because of where and how they grew up, because they were very unlucky or maybe theyre just plain stupid, theres plenty of situations where people are just stuck no matter how hard they try.
Im not saying we should just give everything weve worked for away for free, but I do believe the fortunate ones should look out for the less fortunate and at least provide a system where they dont have to live in poverty.

Right now theres people making 8 bucks an hour because thats all they can do and people like Jeff Bezos are stashing billions of dollars in offshore accounts. Money they and their families will never ever spend as long as the sun as they live.
Thats what Sanders wants to adress. Hes not looking to steal everybodies money to hand it out to just anyone.

You say the republican party has been working in your favor but meanwhile it has not been kind to soceity as a whole.
The gap between rich and poor is becoming bigger every year.
More people in poverty means more crime and more desperate people trying to get your money because they cant feed their children.
Do I think they shouldnt have had children in the first place if they cant afford them? Fuck yeah. Do I think they should get off their lazy asses and work hard like you and me? Fuck yeah. But unfortunately this just isnt an option for everybody.
Like it or not, if you want to live in a nice place and you want your kids to be safe youre gonna have to contribute to these lazy motherfuckers and dumbasses.
The republican party that has served you so well is also to blame (partially) for all the homeless people on the streets, tweakers dumping dirty needles on playgrounds where your kids play and failing health care resulting in even more of these problems and worse.

The evidence that this system is failing is abundant and in plain sight.
Just look outside or check the news and youll see all the evidence you need.

If youre afraid corporations are going to punish everybody for higher taxes then maybe we should look for a way to stop them.
Because the only reason theyre getting away with it is because theres a system in place where theyre allowed to fuck everybody over.
From lobbying, bribing politicians, to big pharma being allowed to charge ridiculous amounts of money for their products. This is whats wrong with your country.
Not some poor Mexicans so desperate for a better life they take enormous risks to cross the border and not a couple of millenials with toilet paper degrees.

Im glad you and your family are doing well.
But what good is that gonna do when your kids end up having to build cages around their houses, drive armored cars and constantly live in fear that their kids are gonna get shot or worse.

Being stuck in your ways is hardly an argument for anything youve said.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,409
24
Bay Area, California
If only there was some mechanism by which you could fact check all of the bullshit you "hear". Perhaps you could even use such a tool to post to you're favorite mountain bike website/forum one day!


 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,409
24
Bay Area, California
I pretty much agree with everything you just said. (Except the fact that youre completely discarding the group of large group of voters that most of us on ridemonkey represent)
But Im not going to base my vote on who else is voting for said candidate.
To follow your logic every racist, xenophobe and selfish piece of shit votes republican. But thats not stopping you from voting for them.

Ive worked hard every day of my life as well, and still do. Started when I was 15 and Im now 39 and had my own business for most of that time.

Not saying I never got help, but I like to think i did most if it by myself.
Lots of people dont have that opportunity.
Wether thats because of where and how they grew up, because they were very unlucky or maybe theyre just plain stupid, theres plenty of situations where people are just stuck no matter how hard they try.
Im not saying we should just give everything weve worked for away for free, but I do believe the fortunate ones should look out for the less fortunate and at least provide a system where they dont have to live in poverty.

Right now theres people making 8 bucks an hour because thats all they can do and people like Jeff Bezos are stashing billions of dollars in offshore accounts. Money they and their families will never ever spend as long as the sun as they live.
Thats what Sanders wants to adress. Hes not looking to steal everybodies money to hand it out to just anyone.

You say the republican party has been working in your favor but meanwhile it has not been kind to soceity as a whole.
The gap between rich and poor is becoming bigger every year.
More people in poverty means more crime and more desperate people trying to get your money because they cant feed their children.
Do I think they shouldnt have had children in the first place if they cant afford them? Fuck yeah. Do I think they should get off their lazy asses and work hard like you and me? Fuck yeah. But unfortunately this just isnt an option for everybody.
Like it or not, if you want to live in a nice place and you want your kids to be safe youre gonna have to contribute to these lazy motherfuckers and dumbasses.
The republican party that has served you so well is also to blame (partially) for all the homeless people on the streets, tweakers dumping dirty needles on playgrounds where your kids play and failing health care resulting in even more of these problems and worse.

The evidence that this system is failing is abundant and in plain sight.
Just look outside or check the news and youll see all the evidence you need.

If youre afraid corporations are going to punish everybody for higher taxes then maybe we should look for a way to stop them.
Because the only reason theyre getting away with it is because theres a system in place where theyre allowed to fuck everybody over.
From lobbying, bribing politicians, to big pharma being allowed to charge ridiculous amounts of money for their products. This is whats wrong with your country.
Not some poor Mexicans so desperate for a better life they take enormous risks to cross the border and not a couple of millenials with toilet paper degrees.

Im glad you and your family are doing well.
But what good is that gonna do when your kids end up having to build cages around their houses, drive armored cars and constantly live in fear that their kids are gonna get shot or worse.

Being stuck in your ways is hardly an argument for anything youve said.
Jeff Bezos started a business out of his home, and turned it into a multibillion dollar business. He earned it, it’s all part of the American dream. Corporate greed for the most part took off following the dot.com boom, where your average Joe became a multi millionaire over night by being in the right place at the right time. That’s where everything escalated. My point is, you’re going to have a hard time at this point trying to change it. Company’s will do layoffs, just to maintain their bottom lines. So a plan B needs to be developed, like I’ve said before, flat income tax, 30% across the board with no deductions along with a mandatory 5% sales tax in every state. Eliminates tax day in the process.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,409
24
Bay Area, California
I’m a 37 year old Harvard grad, and a gainfully employed physician. I support Bernie. How again am I a deadbeat per your convenient stereotype?

Not all people only look out only for their personal short-sighted interests.
Harvard? Very impressive, in all seriousness! Most, Bernie supporters I know are that type I described above. Did you go to Harvard for medical?
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
28,135
4,124
Riding the baggage carousel.
"Another myth is that immigrants come to the United States to collect welfare and other benefits. According to the myth, most undocumented immigrants are on welfare. But the Department of Homeland Security found that less than 1 percent of this population is on welfare. That's about the same as native-born Americans.

A similar myth says that undocumented immigrants come to the United States to have "anchor babies" for free. But the report found that only 15.5 percent of undocumented immigrants benefit from Medicaid. Around $2 billion a year goes to hospitals who must care for anyone who shows up at the emergency room. It's similar to the 16.1 percent of native-born Americans who use Medicaid.

The study found that 9.1 percent of undocumented immigrants used food stamps, compared to 11.6 percent of native-born.
Many undocumented immigrants receive these benefits because they live in households with eligible Americans."

"

    • 43 percent of Medicaid recipients were white, 18 percent were African American and 30 percent were Hispanic in 2016. [Source: KFF]
    • In 2016 36.2 percent of SNAP program beneficiaries were white, 25.6 percent were African American, 17.2 percent were Hispanic, 3.3 percent were Asian. [Source: USDA]
    • 41.6 percent of the African American population and 36. 4 percent of the Hispanic population participated in at least one government assistance program in a given month. [Source: United States Census Bureau"

"The United States has six major welfare programs: TANF, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP, EITC, Supplemental Security Income, and housing assistance. To be eligible, recipients' income must be below the poverty levels set by the states. There are other limits as well. TANF recipients must get a job after two years. They won't receive additional benefits should they have another child while under this program.

Mandatory programs such as Social Security and Medicare aren't welfare programs. They are entitlement programs based on one’s payroll tax contributions.

Many Americans believe that too much federal aid is being doled out. Ironically, most of them live in states that receive the most federal aid. They don't know it because the aid is invisible, unlike food stamps and TANF checks. This invisible aid includes jobs from federal contracts and tax credits.

Other Americans believe too many undocumented immigrants are on welfare. But only a small percentage of undocumented immigrants benefit from food stamps and Medicaid. Many are only able to do so because they live in homes with eligible U.S. citizens."



Yet you and Fox both seem to think that Mexicans "illegals" are the problem. I wonder why that is, when the statistics clearly don't bear that out.

It's also complete horse shit that "able bodied Americans" don't "want" to work. Most people receiving assistance have jobs.

"Although welfare programs are commonly argued to support the lazy, data does not show this to be true. In the current state, welfare programs predominantly help Americans who receive low wages. The U.C. Berkeley Labor Center discovered that welfare program participation is higher for Americans receiving minimum wages.


    • On average 39 percent of women receiving Aid to Families with Dependent Children benefits were also employed [Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics]
    • $152.8 billion is spent each year in the United States on welfare programs to support working families with low wages. [Source: U.C. Berkeley Labor Center]
    • 52 percent of fast food workers with at least one family member rely on at least one poverty assistance program. [Source: U.C. Berkeley Labor Center]

You know what? Never mind. You're a boorish troll and why I keep engaging escapes me. I had most of this banged out and was editing when I got called out to an airplane, and I was struck by the realization walking out that none of it matters to you. You are clearly not a man persuaded by fact. I don't even believe you're arguing in good faith. I don't think you're misguided any more. It's deliberate, you just really suck at it. Most of your talking points are so old and stale they might actually predate some, if not all, of the programs you attack. The same stale fox news/brietbart/8chan/stormfront BS, right wing/russian propaganda, whataboutism's over and over and over and over and over, post after post, after post. The Big Lie. The fact free "i hear rumors", "my side says", "capitalism will die", presented with out evidence, xenophobic, racist, kool aide drinking, unsubstantiated baloney, ad-fucking-nauseum. Reagan's "Cadillac driving welfare queen" falsehood is literally older than I am and has it's roots in the exact same dogwhistle Republican/GOP "southern strategy" that gives birth to today's attacks on "illegals".


I’m still crawling under rat shit infested homes
It's clearly where you're most comfortable.
 
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Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,418
1,826
AK
where your average Joe became a multi millionaire over night by being in the right place at the right time
This is an important piece. Although “working hard” can be a component, it is not intrinsically linked to being successful/making money. And just as important, failing and being poor is also not intrinsically linked to being lazy or not working. There is a psychological phenomena at work when you are successful through a combination of whatever factors get you there, you figure that “anyone” should just be able to do what you did...completely ignoring all the unique situations and chance that did or didn’t happen. Just read an article this morning on how better-looking kids do better in school with grades and other development. There are so many factors and we get under the delusion that we can control them all because something good happened to us. We minimize the negative or explain it away in our own minds. I’m just sick of the bull crap of worshiping someone who was a bit luckier.
 
Out of curiosity, have you taken a good look at Bernie’s supporters? Lots of millennials mixed with 40-50+ year old people, that don’t own a home and don’t have a lot to begin with. Many of them have “toilet paper degrees”. Those are degrees, that can’t get you a real job in life, but hey! I went to a very prestigious college! But at the end of the day, all you can do is wipe your ass with it, because it’s useless in real life. I’m not saying you’re one of them, maybe I’m stereotyping. However, these are typically the ones I see supporting Bernie, so of course free stuff sounds very appealing. I’m 53, growing up, but my grandfather and father would always tell me, nothing is for free, you want it? Bust your ass and work for it! To this day, I’m still crawling under rat shit infested homes working my ass off. It sucks! wish I would have finished college, but at the time, I was making more money at the time than my friends with degrees, so I got sucked into construction (this was in the mid 80’s). however, I live a very blessed life because of it. Sorry, but I’m very stuck in my ways, but feel the Republican Party has always benefited my family in the past as well as present. So I stick with what works for me, friends and family.
I'm a 74 year old pre-baby boomer, not hurting for money, 100% Bernie supporter.
 

jstuhlman

We noticed.
Dec 3, 2009
9,736
4,496
Cackalacka du Nord
*proudly waves his toilet paper degrees in the air after having been a gainfully employed homeowner working in *gasp* THE ARTS for the past 25 years. and yeah, i worked in college and worked 3 different jobs in grad school. so obviously a socialist slacker looking for a handout from bernie. :rofl:

i don't need to be fucking rolling in cash and "things" to enjoy my life and want to help others. "me first" is a shitty way to live no matter what side of the aisle you're on. the ironic thing is that you'd think that's what the evangelical right would be learning from their beloved book...