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The Economy (2020/21)

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,785
12,792
In a van.... down by the river

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I don't know. Owing nothing and tipping $4 seems pretty generous. She doesn't have to do shit. No?
"owing nothing" Heh, I vehemently disagree. She owes everyone whoever had to buy cheap shit on amazon because that's all they could afford. She owes heavily a society that's structured for her and her ex to accumulate that kind of absurd money while stepping all over their employees to do it.

There's no reason for anyone to have that much wealth regardless, so no. They literally just start thinking they're space voyagers because they don't know what to do with it, they have every house, every yacht, every plane you could possibly own......so spaceship!!!

It's probably no surprise but living in the playground for silicon valley douchebags reiterates daily for me that wealth has no inherent connection whatsoever to competency, skill, and especially not actual worth as a person.

That money can and should be doing much more than it is for a country that fights tooth and nail for its own economic suppression.

"yay, you did a human"

Here's a cookie, do more of it. Mostly invest in a system that creates a society that doesn't depend on your little crumbs we beg for, you titan of industry you. Hunger games isn't an economic system, it's a nightmare.

She might be better than most, I'll give you that. But it's a pretty low bar.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,345
5,097
Ottawa, Canada

"Alone, none of these metrics can tell a complete story of the pandemic economic crisis. Taken together, they show that, more than 10 years after the Great Recession, the economy has proved itself adaptable to extreme circumstances.

But almost all the economists we surveyed, even the most optimistic, agreed on the need for swift fiscal policy to alleviate short-term suffering and prevent long-term harm."

It's almost like they think the economy is a being, they forget it's made up of people. And it's people who are adaptable. Sometimes we need to help each other out though...
 
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Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
10,561
7,663
Exit, CO
look at these stupid tards sitting in their cars for it

Beautiful, heavenly, socialist bootstraps.


"Alone, none of these metrics can tell a complete story of the pandemic economic crisis. Taken together, they show that, more than 10 years after the Great Recession, the economy has proved itself adaptable to extreme circumstances.

But almost all the economists we surveyed, even the most optimistic, agreed on the need for swift fiscal policy to alleviate short-term suffering and prevent long-term harm."

It's almost like they think the economy is a being, they forget it's made up of people. And it's people who are adaptable. Sometimes we need to help each other out though...
What is this neo-commie-socialist bullshit you're spewing now? People are adaptable? People need to help each other out?
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
I love the fact my retirement fund management sent me an email after like 9 months of silence to report:

"We appreciate your business, and we are pretty kickass at making you money.
Monthly return in november: 6.1% (on top, in bigger font)
Year to date november 20: 6.3%
Average over last 10 years: 6.7%"

They charge about 15% of the money that comes in for "management fees" btw.

When Yolo-ing meme stonks on ameritrade has been returning about 1% every 2 weeks since March
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
Its the best legalized robbery I have seen in my life. Its called AFP and exist in Chile and Peru as far as I know.
Its the ultimate triumph of the "free market" and deregulation evolving into full blown mercantilism. Its the stuff republicans dream about.


AFP is a 100% legal and mandatory scheme for the private management of retirement funds.

1) 10% of my salary goes to my private retirement fund
2) about 1.5% of my salary (15% of the money going in) goes to the AFP as "management fees"
3) 0.5% goes to in the form of a compulsory "disability insurance".

AFPs are in fact shell companies for big conglomerates, who also owns banks, insurances, real estate, etc...
They collect money for 20-30 years (until you are 65) and invest the funds in their own businesses. So they pretty much lend the money to themselves... and keep most of the return, paying the fund owner aroudn 6-7% a year (fully insured CDs pay a bit more than in Peru, btw).

Then, when you turn 65... they give you back the money in the form of a pension. BUT there is a catch, a marvelous catch.
Pensions are calculated on the assumption you will live until you (literally) are 115 years old. Yes, thats right, the pension fund has to last an irrealistic time. If you end up with a pension of $30 a month... so be it.
Why you might ask?
Well.... its because this shell companies ALSO have an insurance company within the same conglomerate; which sell you an "insurance policy". They buy the fund (outright), and pay you an X amount of money until you die (which is always more than your fund dilluted over 50 years, obviously).Of course, they pay pennies on the dollar.

Yes, that actually exist.
They made a law a few years ago that allowed the people to withdraw 95% of the fund at 65 in a lump sump. Obviously most people do this.
 
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stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,638
7,304
Colorado
Its the best legalized robbery I have seen in my life. Its called AFP and exist in Chile and Peru as far as I know.
Its the ultimate triumph of the "free market" and deregulation evolving into full blown mercantilism. Its the stuff republicans dream about.


AFP is a 100% legal and mandatory scheme for the private management of retirement funds.

1) 10% of my salary goes to my private retirement fund
2) about 1.5% of my salary (15% of the money going in) goes to the AFP as "management fees"
3) 0.5% goes to in the form of a compulsory "disability insurance".

AFPs are in fact shell companies for big conglomerates, who also owns banks, insurances, real estate, etc...
They collect money for 20-30 years (until you are 65) and invest the funds in their own businesses. So they pretty much lend the money to themselves... and keep most of the return, paying the fund owner aroudn 6-7% a year (fully insured CDs pay a bit more than in Peru, btw).

Then, when you turn 65... they give you back the money in the form of a pension. BUT there is a catch, a marvelous catch.
Pensions are calculated on the assumption you will live until you (literally) are 115 years old. Yes, thats right, the pension fund has to last an irrealistic time. If you end up with a pension of $30 a month... so be it.
Why you might ask?
Well.... its because this shell companies ALSO have an insurance company within the same conglomerate; which sell you an "insurance policy". They buy the fund (outright), and pay you an X amount of money until you die (which is always more than your fund dilluted over 50 years, obviously).Of course, they pay pennies on the dollar.

Yes, that actually exist.
They made a law a few years ago that allowed the people to withdraw 95% of the fund at 65 in a lump sump. Obviously most people do this.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,347
16,829
Riding the baggage carousel.
Related
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,355
2,466
Pōneke
This is about pushing good corporate finance and governance to those that don’t have it. This generally ends up with better products and services for everyone.

You still have some weird ideas about China. Nearly all the electrical devices all of us own, as well as many mechanical ones are made in China, generally by the more efficient firms subcontracted by companies from round the world.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
You still have some weird ideas about China.
I'd say the same.

I'm well aware that China makes everything, literally everything, good and bad quality wise.

But industrially, environmentally, and in terms of humanity, they're where the US was around the time Upton Sinclair had some thoughts.

Dont give me some altruistic veil about China. We're talking about a place where people disappear for criticizing programs like this, where the internet is completely clamped down, where "industry has made unbreathable air, where they sat on the knowledge of Corona and are now hailing people right now who spoke up last year. Those college kids in Hong Kong weren't blowing shit up out of joy from joining the justice.

Authoritative Capitalsm is even worse than the normal version. The place is the manufacturing hub of the planet not because of the strength of its union's or artisan craftmanship. You know this.

So I can make jokes about rushed Friday afternoon electronics. Although I guess that only works if you get Saturday's off...
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,009
9,671
AK
A lot of this goes back to the absolutely bat-shit crazy idea that we can compete with emerging industrialized nations for production. The more we think this is true, the more we dig ourselves down a fucking hole. You aren't going to compete with these nations and then guess what, when other nations need to buy stuff, they are going to buy it from the nation selling it cheaper. China is producing modern airliners. Think about that for a while. They will take a while to catch on, but nations of the world will be buying Chinese airliners, vs. an Airbus or Boeing. Of course, if we want to subsidize everything, we can sell more stuff, keep our own population snuffed out in low wages and poverty due to taxes and concentration of wealth, but it's not a sustainable model IMO. The other thing that happens is our own innovation and competition suffers, think back to 1970s US autos. Our relevancy for producing shit is long over. We can still have some relevancy with pushing emerging tech, new innovations, new methods, and so on, but if we keep focusing on the crazy ass idea that we can produce widgets like emerging nations, we will screw that up too.

I also think that information tech has significantly sped up this process. Not necessarily or blatant industrial espionage (although that's a part of it), but just being able to send and share ideas so rapidly these days, there isn't much that can be kept secret/proprietary or that other nations can't match. Because of information tech, the rate at which they (other countries) can develop these industries rapidly outpaces what we accomplished.
 
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Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,355
2,466
Pōneke
But industrially, environmentally, and in terms of humanity, they're where the US was around the time Upton Sinclair had some thoughts.
I think you should look at this some more. This simply isn’t true, and hasn’t been for at least half a decade or so. Example: In 2013 they started a huge project to clean up their air. It is working really well, above targets.

They have genuine environmental policy that is applied and not skirted with lawyers. They have quantum encrypted satellite communication, deployed hypersonic missiles, a smart electrical grid that might be the best in the world, trains that make the French jealous.

You can say what you want about the state control and disappearing people and the like but they are 1.3 billion people and they have their shit together. Most people who live there are proud, they don’t want to criticise their government because from a lot of quite important measures, it’s doing really well.

Whilst America has been chopping their institutions down, China has built theirs up. Things are changing fast.
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,887
6,180
Yakistan
China has been shit posting this website every night for months (years?). They're persistent if anything and seem to be obsessed with studying abroad. I commend them for their interest in an education.

Considering damn near half the country voted for Trump and a not insignificant number of elected representatives are willing to pander the lies, we are fucked. The grift has gone mainstream and all things with value are going to suffer. Skills and an education are being replaced by cousins and friends and cash in paper sacks.
 

velocipedist

Lubrication Sensei
Jul 11, 2006
559
702
Rainbow City Alabama
Good to know cognitive dissonance is a universal trait. China added 40.8GW of coal plants in 2020.

Defending China definitely puts your utopian posts in a very different light. The Uighurs and Tibetans vehemently disagree with you.

Power corrupts regardless of governmental structure or geographic location.

I think you should look at this some more. This simply isn’t true, and hasn’t been for at least half a decade or so. Example: In 2013 they started a huge project to clean up their air. It is working really well, above targets.

They have genuine environmental policy that is applied and not skirted with lawyers. They have quantum encrypted satellite communication, deployed hypersonic missiles, a smart electrical grid that might be the best in the world, trains that make the French jealous.

You can say what you want about the state control and disappearing people and the like but they are 1.3 billion people and they have their shit together. Most people who live there are proud, they don’t want to criticise their government because from a lot of quite important measures, it’s doing really well.

Whilst America has been chopping their institutions down, China has built theirs up. Things are changing fast.
 

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Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,224
2,537
The old world
Imagine having the mental flexibility needed to constantly remind Americans of what a fascist shithole they live in, while getting a hard on for autocracies because they use renewables to mine your bitcoins and the concentration camps are really well organized.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,112
3,827
sw ontario canada
Good to know cognitive dissonance is a universal trait. China added 40.8GW of coal plants in 2020.

Defending China definitely puts your utopian posts in a very different light. The Uighurs and Tibetans vehemently disagree with you.

Power corrupts regardless of governmental structure or geographic location.

If they do this shit "internally" then what do people actually think they will do with the laowai?
Countries that have undertaken the Chinese Belt and Road initiative will find out that is is actually more Boot to the Neck.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,479
20,280
Sleazattle
A friend who is a dual Canadian/Chinese citizen tells me a story of how he was working on installing some equipment for the Chinese aerospace industry and they were asking him to work well beyond the contractual commitments made by his US employer. One morning he was informed that the military or police, I cannot remember, were waiting for him in his hotel lobby to make sure he came to work that day. He had to make some phone calls to the Canadian consulate and essentially made a hasty escape from the country fearing if he didn't do it then he would never be able to leave. Of course his US coworkers were not given the same treatments.