Just saw this movie and holy ****!
http://www.prisonexp.org ... i read that site and wow.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0250258/
http://www.prisonexp.org ... i read that site and wow.
The Experiment ... reforming our prison system
- Thread starter LordOpie
- Start date
I thought this thread was gonna be about prison sex.....oooohhhh well
here's an oldie but goodie for VB: http://www.spr.org
According to you right wingers, prison is like a country club, isn't it?
It is better than death isn't it?Originally posted by valve bouncer
According to you right wingers, prison is like a country club, isn't it?
What perks should they be intitled to?
I didn't read the links so this is most likely off topic. Prison shouldn't be a country club....but you "lefties" feel they should be pampered while they are there. (how is that for matching your rash generalization?
too)Food, Shelter, run them around the yard everyday, give basic health care, and treat them with respect (if they treat you with respect.)
If not.......Da Man comes down on ya.
Problem is when Da Man doesn't treat a human being with respect...abusing his power. OR, the inmate doesn't wish to play by the rules.
Cable TV
Internet access
lollypops
snocones
butlers
espresso
are things that shouldn't be part of a prisoners rights......
Prison isn't/shouldn't be livable. They should make small rocks out of big rocks....eat....sleep.....and repeat.
I guess that would depend on what kind of CC it is.....
Studied this a little in a college psych class. Pretty wacked out how viscious the guards became.
So just how does your regime help prisoners reform (which should be the basis of any prison system). In your world when prisoners are released they're just thrown back into the world from whence they came with no skills except the criminal ones they learnt in prison. And you wonder why there are so many recidivists.
You have no answer as usual Rhino other than hang 'em high.If as much money was spent on reforming prisoners as was spent on punishment maybe the US wouldn't have prison statistics that would make dictators blush.
wow, a relevant and insightful post by VB! I agree, we should spend more resources on reform.Originally posted by valve bouncer
So just how does your regime help prisoners reform (which should be the basis of any prison system). In your world when prisoners are released they're just thrown back into the world from whence they came with no skills except the criminal ones they learnt in prison. And you wonder why there are so many recidivists.
If as much money was spent on reforming prisoners as was spent on punishment maybe the US wouldn't have prison statistics that would make dictators blush.
We should encourage our criminals to migrate to Canada... They have a PLUSH prison system there.
I couldn't agree more... the primary objective of any correctional facility should be to correct whatever it is inside a person that leads them to a life of crime. This is certainly not to say prison should be a country club but... "They should make small rocks out of big rocks....eat....sleep.....and repeat"... are you serious?! What could this possibly accomplish?Originally posted by valve bouncer
So just how does your regime help prisoners reform (which should be the basis of any prison system). In your world when prisoners are released they're just thrown back into the world from whence they came with no skills except the criminal ones they learnt in prison. And you wonder why there are so many recidivists.
If as much money was spent on reforming prisoners as was spent on punishment maybe the US wouldn't have prison statistics that would make dictators blush.
Oh, i dunno, punishment for murderers and rapists maybe?
Why should prisoners get things even lower class free people cant? ie. colege education, great healthcare, cable TV, internet access....crap like that.
Sure, reform them, make prison a place so unbearable they'd never ever want to go back. (if only people worked like that).
How exactly do you reform a person anyhow?
There is no right answer here.
Regardless of how plush some may percieve the prison system to be, it denies the person freedom. You lose freedom you lose dignity and the prisoner gains a reliance on the system. Institutionalization is quite real.
It's set up for failure when a "portion" of the corrections system is not being established for reform. Many prisoners who may have been open for rehabilitation is instead being returned to society without any proper social skills except for an expanded criminal thinking process.
If it's set up for failure only the industry of law and corrections look to benefit, but at the expense of victims and taxpayers.
Not to say that this should be a broad stroke and all criminals will take to reform. Not saying that it is realistic to see, or expect that hardened criminals would take to it. But there are many in the prison system who can be reached. So even a small percentage is an ideal that even staunch punish hungry hardliners should gravitate towards. Criminals who are going to be released back into society are going to be released. Want em back with a basic vocational education, some drug and alcohol rehabilitation, or do you want em back angry, hopeless, and trained only in anti-social behavior. And ask yourself before you say well we'll just send em back to the slammer if they didn't learn, for it might be at the expense of someone you know being the victim.
Criminals forsake their right to entitlement of rights certainly, but society is owed the opportunity to prevent crime not only thru punishment, but with reform as well.
It's set up for failure when a "portion" of the corrections system is not being established for reform. Many prisoners who may have been open for rehabilitation is instead being returned to society without any proper social skills except for an expanded criminal thinking process.
If it's set up for failure only the industry of law and corrections look to benefit, but at the expense of victims and taxpayers.
Not to say that this should be a broad stroke and all criminals will take to reform. Not saying that it is realistic to see, or expect that hardened criminals would take to it. But there are many in the prison system who can be reached. So even a small percentage is an ideal that even staunch punish hungry hardliners should gravitate towards. Criminals who are going to be released back into society are going to be released. Want em back with a basic vocational education, some drug and alcohol rehabilitation, or do you want em back angry, hopeless, and trained only in anti-social behavior. And ask yourself before you say well we'll just send em back to the slammer if they didn't learn, for it might be at the expense of someone you know being the victim.
Criminals forsake their right to entitlement of rights certainly, but society is owed the opportunity to prevent crime not only thru punishment, but with reform as well.
Reform isn't happening anytime soon.
Prisons are big business. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons why we keep shoving people in them for smoking a joint.
And then, when they come out with a criminal record and can't get a job, they turn to crime and we can get them with a three strikes law.
It's win-win!
Prisons are big business. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons why we keep shoving people in them for smoking a joint.
And then, when they come out with a criminal record and can't get a job, they turn to crime and we can get them with a three strikes law.
It's win-win!
I'll agree.
There's a surprise
Listen guys, not everything in the world is a conspiracy. Someone will profit no matter what the situation.
Why you little @!X%%$%!@!!!!!!Originally posted by BurlySurly
There's a surprise
Not about reforming prison systems, but still a good read.
You Got Nothing Coming : Notes From a Prison Fish
You Got Nothing Coming : Notes From a Prison Fish
i dont think he is saying that the criminals are the victims. we are all the victims. locking someone up for 5-10 for smoking or selling weed is only going to put them back out in public as a person who has been removed from society for 10 years, cant find a job, more often than not, doesnt have a place to stay, and goes straight back to selling drugs just to get back on his feet.
we have got to stop looking at things in an us vs. them view. having disconected, homeless, jobless criminals out on the street effects me just as much as it effects them or you and throwing them back in jail doesnt solve anything for our problems or theirs.
it is a vicious cycle that the entire society suffers from.
you're a strange guy.
Bravo!
Did you fall asleep in church when the pastor was talking about the "least" of us?
Lame.
Yes but conspiracy is a federal crime punishable of up to 10 years. Better not get caught cookin up some dastardly scheme.
i really don't think the justice system and it's current problems are a "conspiracy" more than just a progression of problems and a system unwilling to fix the problems. There is way more to this issue than just the prison system, i'm sure books have been written about all the reasons we have so much crime to begin with.
But yes my retort is that the taxpayer (We/Us/The Good Guys) will profit if short-timing prisoners get a job instead of re-offend when they get out. We all stand to profit if we pull a few out of the rut.
It's really interesting to see $tinkle's brain vomit splashed upon the computer monitor. C'mon man you can do better than this....
Dictators chop their heads off too.Originally posted by valve bouncer
So just how does your regime help prisoners reform (which should be the basis of any prison system). In your world when prisoners are released they're just thrown back into the world from whence they came with no skills except the criminal ones they learnt in prison. And you wonder why there are so many recidivists.
If as much money was spent on reforming prisoners as was spent on punishment maybe the US wouldn't have prison statistics that would make dictators blush.
Reform? We do have reform projects. Jail isn't a Community college. It doesn't change a persons will to offend or not.
We dont' hang them high.....maybe that is the problem. Eh, Valvy?
*edit* If there is ever a way to troll mess with someones name like that.
- Rhiny
Well giving them video games aint doing much. Smashing rocks is activity and teaches discipline.
BUt I can see how you take my phrase literally....
Reform is as scientific as psychology. It isn't an exact science. But I am not saying it shouldn't be tried. Those who hold that as teh fix all are seriously setting themselves up for a dissapointment.....like they expect people to magically change.
It is a corrections facilty, Corrections doesn't equate to reform, but maybe even reform isn't possible for most people. I guess thatoudl make the people outside feel better.....look Inmate XXXXXXXXX made a collage and is reading Jurasic Park. He is soooo going to do better.
NOTE SARCASTIC BIT ABOVE I KNOW REFORM ISN"T ALL COLLAGES AND STUFF
Rhino, do you know it cost less to train a convict to weld or fix refrigeration than to pay to house and feed them for their life.
Do you not realize people with a trade are much less likely to re-offend?
I don't get it, your'e all about being bad-ass law and justice guys and you will continue to support pissing money away housing people and not even consider that there may be a cheaper and better way to deal with crime.
It's stupid Rhino, no you are not stupid, but wasting the tax payers money in jails that don't rehabilitate is a waste. Think of the weapons the Army could buy with the money we save on prisions.
Well written.
What? I can't acknowledge a well written post?
No. :devil:Originally posted by RhinofromWA
What? I can't acknowledge a well written post?
I agree people shouldn't do stupid sh!t to go to jail.
I say send all inmates that are able into the armed forces. Boot camp and all and punish them severly if they flee. They get monitoring, dicipline, real world skills and training and our country gets a fighting force. Make it volintary. We pay for them either way....but we get some use out of them. Didn't the French Foriegn legion made like this?
Teach them how to weld and plumb and build houses while in jail. Make money off them while they practice it.....HINT THEY ALREADY DO. While it is more likely an inmate that can weld will not reoffend is good, but it is no easy garauntee.
Men getting it from their wifes regularly are less likely to stray.....doesn't mean it stops many man from doing so.
I suggest Woman Against Men Straying (WAMS) be created to teach and assist women in keeping their men satisfied so the divorce rate drops. 
lolDoesn't mean I agree with everything. I don't dissagree with it all either.
not to mention the fact that by starting systems like this in jails you are creating jobs for people with certain trades to come in and teach.
Did you have a pair of Prison Blues jeans? I loved 'em, stronger than Carharts and made in Oregon by the inmates. Somebody sued and they stopped making them.
Better than having inmates serve in the Army, how about we employ them in road construction or other civil projects like the CCC of the 30's?
I understand there is no 100% sure fire answer to this issue but we need to start asking some questions about it.
I have been victum to crime and my family has suffered graetly at the hands of criminals. I'm not dumb, I understand some people are not able to live in our society with out hurting others. It's the ones who made dumb mistakes and know it that we need to work harder at helping.
Yes yes. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time. I agree.
Ahhh but a slighlty near-sighted Rhino once said, "There are those that go and steal others crab pots. Knowing full well how to crab"
Reform isn't the end all answer BUT it is part of the solution. They do reform programs already.