The Experiment ... reforming our prison system
- Thread starter LordOpie
- Start date
That's the issue, as I see it, they do reform programs that don't seem to work.
So how and what needs to be done to fix the system? Or is it beyond repair?
never made them big enough for my ass.
They do road clean ups don't they? I think... I don't see why they couldn't be cheapo labor for goverment road projects....get money back from the contract holders.
Iamsorry for asking but what is the CCC stand for? I have an idea but the 3 C's don't make any sense to me.
:How does one sue to stop inmates makeing blue jeans?
Do you know why? Sounds kinda funny. Was it the profiting off of inmates sort of thing or a liability suit....for jeans? 
I didn't either, I heard this message at Assembly of God and Methodist churches.
CCCOriginally posted by RhinofromWA
never made them big enough for my ass.
They do road clean ups don't they? I think... I don't see why they couldn't be cheapo labor for goverment road projects....get money back from the contract holders.
Iamsorry for asking but what is the CCC stand for? I have an idea but the 3 C's don't make any sense to me.
How does one sue to stop inmates makeing blue jeans?
Civilian Conservation Corps.
They built the roads up to Mt. Rainier and the lodge. I think most of the national parks. The Golden Gate bridge, Grand Coulee etc...
I don't know the deatails of the jeans law suit. I'll Google and see what I can find.
it's hard to do this & optimise my code (damn work).Originally posted by Skookum
It's really interesting to see $tinkle's brain vomit splashed upon the computer monitor. C'mon man you can do better than this....
for today, i'm reduced to bumper stickers.
What isn't working? Program or students? I don't have an answer for that part.
ultimately it is the inmates choice to reoffend.
What do we teach them? They will be convicts on the outside. so What trades are excepting of convicts? Accountants?
CFO's? LOLLabor industries even shy away....but maybe with a decent program with a certificate and some big companies tostart off with when they get out they could have some power (certificate, letter of recomendation of that first employer, etc.) when they go on in life.
Rhino
from the din of bluster arises a desert flower of reason.Originally posted by RhinofromWA
I say send all inmates that are able into the armed forces. Boot camp and all and punish them severly if they flee. They get monitoring, dicipline, real world skills and training and our country gets a fighting force. Make it volintary. We pay for them either way....but we get some use out of them. Didn't the French Foriegn legion made like this?
Teach them how to weld and plumb and build houses while in jail. Make money off them while they practice it.....HINT THEY ALREADY DO. While it is more likely an inmate that can weld will not reoffend is good, but it is no easy garauntee.
in the 30's..... I kept picturing a line of guys swinging pick-axes. Thanks for clearing that up.
I think we should put them to work....not easy work, but work. I have no problem there.
I get uneasy when we reform by having them go to psychologists etc and talk about their feeligns and blaming their parents for having sex while the crib was in the room or something. Counseling is one thing but thinking that the mysteriesof why they are their way....in a clinical setting is hoping to much. I wouldn't trust a prison counselor with all my info if any. That stuff could be used against you....I suspect.
Hey! :angry:
LOL
It (some counciling) is quite effective, cognitive behavior therapy has a proven track record of sucess.
hahahaha
Prison Blues are made to do hard time.
That is to funny.
That is good to hear. I thought $8/hr and they don't have any living expenses...
I'm getting some jeans, there is place that carries them in Chehalis.
sweet!Originally posted by ummbikes
I'm getting some jeans, there is place that carries them in Chehalis.
uhh, no, they makde ~$1.60/hr...Originally posted by RhinofromWA
That is good to hear. I thought $8/hr and they don't have any living expenses...
If they saved half of that over a 5 yr jail term, they'd have $8000 to start their new life off. That's pretty damned good.
I know that.........I guess I wasn't clear I thought they made $8 expenses paid but htemsaw that 80% goes back to pay for restitustion family aid and incarceration costs.
20% is independant spending money for extras at teh prison store and can be saved and sent to family.
My mind raced with what $8hr over 5-10 years could accumulate to.......like in HS mowing lawns with little expenses. I could save money fast.
That was all.I think the $8 is for show since they do see about $1.60 of it....though some of the retained moeny goes to their families.
I did the math...but I was doing the math before I finished the paragraph.
lol
at the risk of making a sweeping generalization, what makes you so sure they'd start a new life, and not re-engage their old one?
to be sure, i like the idea, and everyone who is teachable should get a break. my wife worked in arapahoe county jail for 2 years, so you can imagine she's a bit jaded. Something about having a guy tell her "i'm going to kill you, then i'm going to rape you", just because he didn't get his willy horton wknd pass to go out & beat the crap out of his live in girlfriend.
i'm sure he was the exception, eh?
Originally posted by $tinkle
at the risk of making a sweeping generalization, what makes you so sure they'd start a new life, and not re-engage their old one?
to be sure, i like the idea, and everyone who is teachable should get a break. my wife worked in arapahoe county jail for 2 years, so you can imagine she's a bit jaded. Something about having a guy tell her "i'm going to kill you, then i'm going to rape you", just because he didn't get his willy horton wknd pass to go out & beat the crap out of his live in girlfriend.
i'm sure he was the exception, eh?
that, and....nobody answered my question. How do you reform somebody?
If someone cant be taught right and wrong from an early age, how are you going to make a difference to a criminal?
Can't be taught, or haven't been taught??
I think most of the population IS taught the difference between right and wrong at an early age.
I think so too, so that buries the excuse of "they dont know any better, so education will reforme them"
So what is answer Burly?
I all seriousness what would you do?
I would do litle actually.
Id cut out the goodies of prison and put the inmates to other kinds of work. After their "punishment" is up, they go free having earned some money for a couplemonths rent and food. Reform only works for people willing to accept it. Its is my beleif that most criminals do not.
What "reform" do you have in mind that will change a person?
Id cut out the goodies of prison and put the inmates to other kinds of work.
Plus I would offer educational opportunites and psychological help that they could "pay" for with the money they earned while rebuilding I-5.
After their "punishment" is up, they go free having earned some money for a couplemonths rent and food and are better equiped to deal with freedom.
Boot Camp, Drug and Alcohol Treatment Facilities, Vocational training and Education, these perks for short timers along with intensive criminal thought process counseling. Which isn't the examination of how the criminal is a victim, but get's the criminal to realize he is a criminal and how he proceeds to victimize.
I like the bootcamp idea...
short timers...like 5 years or less? Id say sure, for criminals of the non-violent variety who tend to get those sentences. Im not against the education, I just find it ironic that it'd be easier to get it by robbing a bank than working a job and saving for it. Crazy classes couldnt hurt...but I still doubt the effectiveness of any of this on a large majority of inmates.
ok, good. I could live with that. But that is not reform. that's punishment still.
I still think every high school should have a vocational program or two. If a kid wants a vocational degree instead of prepping for college, cool. And if the kid wants a vocation that's offered at one of the other schools nearby, that he/she should be bused there for either the morning or afternoon sessions while still learning basics of math, english, personal finance, anything to help him become a good citizen -- drop that history and art crap.
Then, in the second half of senior year, they get an internship that's supervised by the school. So, he/she graduates with a HS diploma and a voc.certificate and some experience... maybe gets hired on at the place he did his internship at.
or he could rop out and beat up his grandmother.
This of course all supposes that a leopard can't change his spots. None of us here are criminologists so we're all basically just p*ssin' in the wind (some more than others
) but reform has to come at all levels of the system. It's no use just trying to reform people when they're in jail, the whole focus should be on not getting them there in the first place and then if they do end up in prison making sure they don't come back. This by necessity means some sort of support structure for released prisoners. As it stands now the system is re-active rather than pro-active and the cycle repeats itself.I believe one simple way to start would be to seperate people who were jailed for violent offences from people jailed for non-violent crimes.
Another step would be to link education and training to the remission of the sentence (I'm sure this already happens). Again ongoing support in and OUT of prison. Of course the usual right wingers do their Rumpelstiltskin act, frothing at the mouth ranting "why should we give those scumbags anything". Unfortunately they can't see past the ends of their noses to realise that by helping them we are helping ourselves. To these crew criminals should be Out of Sight, Out of Mind (Best docco I've seen on prisons.)
Interesting report about the mental state of the US prison population.
Rates of Mental Illness in Prison
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On any given day, at least 284,000 schizophrenic and manic depressive individuals are incarcerated, and 547,800 are on probation. We have unfortunately come to accept incarceration and homelessness as part of life for the most vulnerable population among us.
Congressman Ted Strickland7
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Rates of Mental Illness in Prison
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On any given day, at least 284,000 schizophrenic and manic depressive individuals are incarcerated, and 547,800 are on probation. We have unfortunately come to accept incarceration and homelessness as part of life for the most vulnerable population among us.
Congressman Ted Strickland7
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dude! how 'bout some warning first?!?!?
my wife has a few scary/saddening stories from not only working at the jail, but she also did a stint at Boulder Psychiatric Hospital. Sure seems like we're a society of warehousers, not healers.
good link, i'll be poring over it for days.