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The Freecaster/WC coverage 2012 thread

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,403
46
Vancouver, BC
At the request of Mr Trumpore...

So Fraser throws out the comment:

this thread would be a good place to mention that this will be freecaster's last major MTB event for awhile. Apparently next year they are NOT doing the World Cups and will instead focus on some european local events due to $$$ and the UCI.
Cue various comments:

That's a pisser. I'm sure the UCI are quite expensive to work with. If it weren't for all the amazing photo/video offerings from all involved (yourself, for instance - thanks!), I'm sure I'd be completely flipping out right about now.

Keep up the great work!
That is terrible news!
that is a serious downer...holy hell that sucks
Any idea what the problem is with the UCI??? I'm feeling a petition coming on And in regards to the $$$ side of things, I for one would be ok with a small fee to lessen the burden.
Just when freecaster was really begining to get sorted with the live feeds. I will seriously miss the nice sunday afternoons with warners commenting and some awesome racing, such a bummer.

The UCI arent complicating matters for say dirt and other filmers, like worlds last year?
I love how sports org hamper progres for cash. I really wish dh/4x biking went snowboarding way and showed the middle finger to the existing org. First MSA, now this. Seriously, f.... them
etc etc

re. freecaster and uci....talked to the owner of FC at crankworx, and he said the UCI dropped a demand of $100,000 on the table for broadcast rights next year, as they already make no money off it freecaster's decision wasn't a hard one, unfortunately....as like all sports orgs, it's an old boys club who thinks people should pay them to sit around and be act like they're important......freecaster and the other web content over the past few years have been the best thing to happen to dh racing, and as usual the UCI doesn't get it, at all.
Some comments:

I want the full story before jumping to conclusions re: Freecaster vs. the UCI. Wasn't there some controversy last year over the fact that Freecaster were upset that independent film makers (working for race teams etc) were being allowed up on the hill to film, which kind of violated Freecaster's "exclusive rights" agreement with the UCI? I'm filling in gaps here, but I remember something like that. If Freecaster's falling out with the UCI stems from UCI's refusing to enforce this, then I have somewhat less sympathy...

If the above doesn't apply, who at the UCI do we write to to complain? I figure if enough of us write to tell them what a bunch of dickwads they are they might get the idea...

I also can't help but think that if Freecaster ditched Warner, entertaining as he is, an external sponsor with more $$$ might be more willing to come forward. AS it is I doubt anyone outside the bike community wants to be associated with the coverage. I think I remember Whitely expressing a similar view...
nope, that was all UCI apparently as Ray didn't care one bit....UCI is just looking to squeeze money out of everyone....just like the IOC, or any other governing body, an old euro boys club that thinks they deserve to be treated like kings.....
The UCI demanded a payment of $800 for the private filmmakers, this would allow them to film the final few corners at MSA but not further up the track, if if remember correctly there was also a 5 min limit on the footage. It was only for the worlds.
Whatever you feelings about Warner, he's a damn good commentator. Sounds pretty weak otherwise imo.

As for companies "wanting to be associated," ... lame.

Next thing you know, these weirdos won't allow your bike company to run ads in their magazine because their name is "Evil Bikes."
So, I, for one, would love to see the Freecaster coverage continue next year. Popular rumors (although none seemingly without bias) seem to be that this is a case of the UCI generally being a bunch of self-important twats, something that is generally a safe bet regardless of the underlying causes of this particular issue. I'd like to know who, in particular, we should write to at the UCI to express our disgust at this state of affairs.

Aaaaand, GO!
 

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,403
46
Vancouver, BC
And regarding the issue of commentating, some of the comments on this article make for a good read:

http://dirt.mpora.com/world-cup/hart-pugin-fastest-val-di-sole-world-cup-timed-practice.html

So it was Stacy Kohut, who himself provided some top-rate commentary at many Crankworx events, who agreed (albeit somewhat more strongly!) with me re: Warner and his influence on outside sponsorship. Don't get me wrong, I find Warner hilarious and entertaining, but I suspect outside companies don't get the joke and would perhaps rather not be associated with some of Warner's comments. The question is, would we rather the coverage be reduced and/or have to pay for it, but keep the hilarious commentary, or grow up a little and take things a little more seriously? I don't mean to come down on either side of the fence on this one. Both have their merits...
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
488
23
Maybe i have been kind of damaged by now but this last season i think warners has been really good. He hasnt sad anything bad about the women if anything he has begining to be impressed by them and teaming up with anneke for commentating on the women has been really good.

Infact between warner and the swedish guy that comments on roadcycling for eurosport they are the best commentators i have ever listen to. Only thing warner could get a bit better at is the cold hard facts/stats. But what makes him really good is the fact he has ridden at this level and he knows the players personally which makes the interviews actually interesting and woth listening to.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
12,720
2,174
North Van
Warner is the Don Cherry of the World Cup. He just needs to clean up his act a bit and he'd be all set of "general consumption".

I would have thought that with all the hooplah created by Gwinn, the US companies would be keen to keep the hype machine going and keep exposure to a maximum. You'd think Fox, Trek, Spec, Monster, Oakley, SRAM, Giant, etc... would be able to justify a contribution to keep the broadcasts going.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,946
38
Roanoke, VA
I felt a little uneasy sharing the clip of Danny Hart's race run from VDS via my social media channels. I had no option but to share it because it was so rad but;
IT BEGAN WITH A RAPE JOKE.

Note to Warner-, turn's out some people don't like rape jokes, including people in my target demographic.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
5,570
364
I felt a little uneasy sharing the clip of Danny Hart's race run from VDS via my social media channels. I had no option but to share it because it was so rad but;
IT BEGAN WITH A RAPE JOKE.

Note to Warner-, turn's out some people don't like rape jokes, including people in my target demographic.
Rape joke? Guess I missed that one. Maybe Warner could clean it up a bit... Otherwise his coverage has been good.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,694
401
Warsaw :/
Rape joke? Guess I missed that one. Maybe Warner could clean it up a bit... Otherwise his coverage has been good.
It wasnt that bad. Imho he is a bit oversensitive. Warners comment was : he is hungrier than an out of work rapist.
 

JCL

Monkey
Aug 31, 2008
696
0
If Warner really is the reason for a lack of funding then he should most definitely go. If not North America should just develop a sense of humour :)
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,946
38
Roanoke, VA
It wasnt that bad. Imho he is a bit oversensitive. Warners comment was : he is hungrier than an out of work rapist.
In the first 2 seconds of the clip all my customers are going to hear is an unintelligible dude blurting dude "rapist". You and I can parse that. Warner's is a bit of a greasy mook and sometimes he screws up his aphorisms... Oops.

Does a 45 year old road biker with two daughters from the conservative part of the US have any sort of framework to understand that? Doubt it.
Therin lies the problem.

I'm sure the real problem here is the UCI going wild with asking wild and crazy amounts of money for tv rights.

The UCI is getting greedier and greedier. I had to send them 2 months salary this year so that my road and cx bikes are "legal" in int'l competition.
For my 2012 models it'll be the equivalent of 6 months of state sales tax.

If I made carbon bikes it would actually be more than twice my yearly income...

What The Fuc&?

10's of thousands of dollars to "approve" a frame for competition?

Rob is brash and grating, but if there is an issue here it's in Aigle, without a doubt.
 

Cant Climb

Turbo Monkey
May 9, 2004
2,687
10
All the Camera's are UCI........do they pay for all that.....?......wonder if they have been losing money.....?........just throwing that out there, would love to hear some more facts before bashing.....

Warner has cleaned up his act. He no longer disrepects the dozen's of racers outside the top 10.....the Rape comment made me cringe......I think he is decent guy, just talks before thinking sometimes.
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,436
73
Hiding from the stupid
All you guys bagging on Warner need to lighten the eff up. Who here hasn't gone a bit too far trying to be funny? Not everything needs to be sanitized for children. Besides, weren't you all complaining a few weeks ago that the commentary wasn't as interesting when Nigel was commentating?

I love Phil Liggett. That doesn't mean I would want him or someone like him as a WC announcer. The action is wild and the commentary fits. I'd still watch without Warner but it wouldn't be nearly as interesting.
 

Gavos

Chimp
Aug 4, 2010
2
0
I seriously hope this turns out to be incorrect, it'll be a huge backward step for the sport.

This is where I never had a problem with paying say $5-10 per broadcast (I'm that keen to watch it I'd pay $40), but there were many whingers out there who though they were entitled to a free broadcast.

Unless someone else picks up the coverage how are we going to enjoy watching our sport? We'll be relegated to the highlight packages from Dirt and Tri-ride, whilst it is fantastic these guys create these free clips for us to enjoy it still doesn't match watching the mens final live and complete.

However all this is speculation until it is official and hopefully the reasons will be made available then (Fraser I hope you're wrong but you are obviously very close to the action). To all the whingers, you don't know what you've got until it gone....
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,694
401
Warsaw :/
In the first 2 seconds of the clip all my customers are going to hear is an unintelligible dude blurting dude "rapist". You and I can parse that. Warner's is a bit of a greasy mook and sometimes he screws up his aphorisms... Oops.

Does a 45 year old road biker with two daughters from the conservative part of the US have any sort of framework to understand that? Doubt it.
Therin lies the problem.

I'm sure the real problem here is the UCI going wild with asking wild and crazy amounts of money for tv rights.

The UCI is getting greedier and greedier. I had to send them 2 months salary this year so that my road and cx bikes are "legal" in int'l competition.
For my 2012 models it'll be the equivalent of 6 months of state sales tax.

If I made carbon bikes it would actually be more than twice my yearly income...

What The Fuc&?

10's of thousands of dollars to "approve" a frame for competition?

Rob is brash and grating, but if there is an issue here it's in Aigle, without a doubt.
WTF? That is insane. I really belive there should be a movement against the old sports orgs or at least the uci. The last string of scandals in other sport orgs only confirms they are rich old bastards who care only about themselves.


As for the Warner controversy - I think it is different in yurp. People generally care a bit less about political correctness.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
2,063
403
Does a 45 year old road biker with two daughters from the conservative part of the US have any sort of framework to understand that? Doubt it.
Therin lies the problem.
Does the above mentioned person even care about downhill racing? :confused:
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
2,063
403
I think that's the point he's making. They're not going to have a chance to care if they get initially turned-off by an "off-color" comment from Mr. Warner..
But do we want to censor our sport so that a conservative jesus freak roadie eventually, possibly, maybe gets interested in it???? I doubt he ever will, no matter what we do.
 

karpi

Monkey
Apr 17, 2006
905
0
Santiasco, Chile
Something similar happens down here when ever you want a race, you have to pay the national bike comission what is considered a bunch of money... which is BS! If you want a sport to grow, you gotta help in aiding coverage and helping with races, not make it hard to do so!

I think there should be a poll, how much are you willing to pay for coverage per broadcast:

US $5
US $10
US $15

US $50 for a season?

Something like that, Im pretty sure that could work and give at least enough money to pay the camera crew and comentators
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
1,918
249
AZ
But do we want to censor our sport so that a conservative jesus freak roadie eventually, possibly, maybe gets interested in it???? I doubt he ever will, no matter what we do.
according to some in this forum, the current uci WC overall champ is a jesus freak. how does this work?
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
I'd be $10/event to watch. Same as a movie these days.

As for Warner, didn't realize how much I liked him until he was gone. Yes, he should clean up a few comments. But I would think the main driver in this is viewing numbers, and I've got to think he is actually good for numbers. He adds to the entertainment value, which keeps some folks coming back. And look at all of us talking about him...he gets attention, isn't that what sponsors want? Just stop the sheep shagging and rape jokes.

I still want to know the full story on the UCI dropping this...I suspect there are real, practical reasons for it. The UCI can't hate downhilling, and there are some good UCI delegates that will be speaking for the sport. Sure, we're not the Tour de France, but I bet we are one of their fastest growing disciplines.
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,246
52
Ellicott City, MD
I'd be $10/event to watch. Same as a movie these days.

As for Warner, didn't realize how much I liked him until he was gone. Yes, he should clean up a few comments. But I would think the main driver in this is viewing numbers, and I've got to think he is actually good for numbers. He adds to the entertainment value, which keeps some folks coming back. And look at all of us talking about him...he gets attention, isn't that what sponsors want? Just stop the sheep shagging and rape jokes.

I still want to know the full story on the UCI dropping this...I suspect there are real, practical reasons for it. The UCI can't hate downhilling, and there are some good UCI delegates that will be speaking for the sport. Sure, we're not the Tour de France, but I bet we are one of their fastest growing disciplines.
:think: wouldn't be so sure of that....
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,946
38
Roanoke, VA
Does the above mentioned person even care about downhill racing? :confused:
I don't care.
I just want them to buy my sh#t so that I can make a living.

I post videos on my Facebook page from
and advocate disembowelment of investment bankers.
Interestingly enough I sell lots of bikes on Wall Street and sponsor (very fast) evangelical Christians- it's not like my customers care, we're all just stoked on bikes. My demographic is pretty focused and i can target them precisely, that's worth mentioning.

Last year when we were working closely with ClifBar I had to check myself a little bit though. There was some pushback from management there about some of my most bawdy spew and spiel. That should tell ya something about large brands and their attempt to control their brand image.

When the third word out of an unintelligible mouth is "rapist" people without context are going to be confused and shocked.
All of this is a non-issue of course-the jerkoffs in Switzerland are the problem as usual...
 

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,403
46
Vancouver, BC
^ That's ridiculous.

In other news, seems like the UCI are up to their old tricks again at Champery. From the Dirt site:

(I know what you’re thinking…these chit chat shenanigans are all right…but when are we going to see some action…some real riding…some steep Champery descending? Eh? Well, soon hopefully…we’re having filming rights issues at the moment but hopefully we can resolve them…and as soon as that’s done…then BOOM!!! We’ll bring you the action)
 

alpine slug

Monkey
Jun 10, 2011
190
0
And regarding the issue of commentating, some of the comments on this article make for a good read:

http://dirt.mpora.com/world-cup/hart-pugin-fastest-val-di-sole-world-cup-timed-practice.html

So it was Stacy Kohut, who himself provided some top-rate commentary at many Crankworx events, who agreed (albeit somewhat more strongly!) with me re: Warner and his influence on outside sponsorship. Don't get me wrong, I find Warner hilarious and entertaining, but I suspect outside companies don't get the joke and would perhaps rather not be associated with some of Warner's comments. The question is, would we rather the coverage be reduced and/or have to pay for it, but keep the hilarious commentary, or grow up a little and take things a little more seriously? I don't mean to come down on either side of the fence on this one. Both have their merits...
You're confusing some issues here.

The fact that Kohut provided good commentary doesn't mean he knows what will work, and what will not, to fund a video coverage. It only means he can provide good commentary.

If people want Rob Warner to continue doing the commentary, then they should step up with their money -- or shut up.

The idea of waiting for someone else -- some corporate honcho or team of corporate sycophants -- to step up and fund this is wrong-headed, and ignorant of what's happening in the global economic perspective.

People... the economy, world-wide, is collapsing. Large businesses are putting their money into short-swing gain (next year), not planning for the long-term (decades out).

I don't mean to be political here. I mean to be realistic and honest. The dreams of uber-tech Megatop Phoenix, Space-Age Lifestyle being here today, now... fantasy, man. Fantasy. Hang onto your iPhone now, because it's not going to get smaller and more powerful. It's going to become a relic.

If you want video coverage, cough up some money and pay some people to do it. Don't sit back and complain that "the sport isn't growing enough" or "Warner's commentary alienates conservative people from The Bank of Zurich." Of course it alienates them -- they don't care about DH racing!

Grow up and take a mature perspective on this tiny sport in a huge sea of sports humans do. It's not gonna "blow up and get huge" like the dot.com bubble of the 80s/90s. It's maxing out right now, along with the global economy.

Make it happen yourselves -- with your own effort, or your own money, or both.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
6,177
1,834
Ottawa, Canada
re rocky roads.... I just went on their website. seems like just text and photo. and I sure hope they can cough up for rea translators (or even english-language journos), caus' running text through google translate doesn't lead to very coherent text:

"The free fall in the “Hell Zone”, the name of that part of the track, causes problems if rides it in fears with the resulting technical errors. "
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
6,177
1,834
Ottawa, Canada
stuff....
you're either a troll, or very young and naive... can't figure out which.

if you think that pay-per view will cover the cost of the coverage we've received.... well, I don't know how to characterize that.

publicity pays short-term dividends and big companies know that. and publicity is what will subsidize the coverage. In turn, that coverage is what will allow the sport to grow. How will the sport grow? by adding new members to the sport. If you're and manufacturer, and you invest in marketing and coverage to that the sport may grow, you need the coverage to not be offensive. actually, you want it to be inclusive... hence some people's aversion to Rob in a public forum. I'm sure he's a really great guy and would be fun to hang out with.

Of course, there are those that may not want to sport to grow, and would rather keep it as a fringe activity, all for themselves... something that makes them unique. me? I'd rather have a bit more money in it, more media, and more coverage. I think it's a great sport to participate in, as well as to watch.

and btw, Stacy has a pretty keen head for marketing. He's done pretty well for himself via his marketing approach, so I wouldn't dismiss what he has to say as the rantings of some lunatic kid on-line...
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
Strange bedfellows, RockRoads must have some deep pockets.

Out of curiosity, what is the UCI TV broadcast like for a DH event? I have never watched it, I don't get a lot of channels as most TV is junk. Is it the same video feed as Freecaster, but with different announcers? Is the Freecaster thing somehow in conflict or stealing from their TV broadcasts?
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
1,918
249
AZ
re rocky roads.... I just went on their website. seems like just text and photo. and I sure hope they can cough up for rea translators (or even english-language journos), caus' running text through google translate doesn't lead to very coherent text:

"The free fall in the “Hell Zone”, the name of that part of the track, causes problems if rides it in fears with the resulting technical errors. "
everything is in english on their site for me.