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The futility of the Prius and the end of the world as we know it

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slyfink

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,795
5,625
Ottawa, Canada
StiHacka said:
And that is the problem. Our cities *were* built around mass transit, at least here in Boston. We had street cars connecting suburbs to the city. Modern train infrastructure for the period. All gone now, replaced by cars. Instead of realizing we cannot stuff more cars on the roads, we give people the sense of false responsible behavior when they sit in morning and evening traffic in their luxury electric cars. It just does not make sense from the environmental point of view, IMHO.
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I'm not saying this isn't true. In fact, this has been my life's work (sustainable community design). It's not even a question of which one you do first, you can do both. What I'm saying is in the grand scheme of things, its more urgent to address emissions from passenger vehicles.
 
slyfink

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,795
5,625
Ottawa, Canada
iRider said:
By not addressing the real issues we will never be able to save the planet for us humans. The planet and life in general will survive, but if the human race does is questionable. Nobody wants to talk about that there are too many people on the planet. Further, those that are responsible for the majority of the pollution, energy consumption etc. don't want to change their lifestyle. This is why we are f***'d. I hope you don't have kids, because that is just irresponsible. ;)
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yeah I was too lazy to do a multi-quote.

The earth's carrying capacity is in large part dependant on lifestyle. you're right, the earth can't sustain 9 billion people with G7 lifestyles. choices have to be made somewhere. but increasingly people are choosing to own a vehicle (e.g. China's car ownership rates), so I think we should at least look into how we can make those vehicles less polluting.

and yeah, I've made the choice to live in a smaller house, own only one car (which will be electric within 3-4 years, I can guarantee it), and be central enough that I can bike to work/groceries/school. While I'm not a full-fledged dirty hippy, I have factored the impacts of my presence on earth into my life decisions.
 
iRider

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,703
3,168
slyfink said:
yeah I was too lazy to do a multi-quote.

The earth's carrying capacity is in large part dependant on lifestyle. you're right, the earth can't sustain 9 billion people with G7 lifestyles. choices have to be made somewhere. but increasingly people are choosing to own a vehicle (e.g. China's car ownership rates), so I think we should at least look into how we can make those vehicles less polluting.
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But even then it won't work. Cars have become cleaner and cleaner over the years, but the increase in their numbers and also the distances driven in them eats up all those savings, which was shown at least in some countries in Europe (I can't find that study ATM).
So I don't think it is a good strategy at all that we promote a "green" western lifestyle. I know, we can't deny developing countries the things we enjoy, but better would be to tell them that we made a mistake in our choices and now try to remedy them. But we are far from even acknowledging this as e.g. can be seen in the "which car should I buy" thread.

slyfink said:
and yeah, I've made the choice to live in a smaller house, own only one car (which will be electric within 3-4 years, I can guarantee it), and be central enough that I can bike to work/groceries/school. While I'm not a full-fledged dirty hippy, I have factored the impacts of my presence on earth into my life decisions.
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I have accepted the negative impact that my lifestyle has on the planet and try to reduce it. Unfortunately I am, like many, stuck in a lot of habits that are not the best for the planet and it is really hard to change them. But I am trying!
 
StiHacka

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,508
In hell. Welcome!
The Boring company - building "mass transit" for the 1%, one posh neighborhood at a time.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/18148061/boring-tunnel-test-drive-hawthorne-tesla-elon-musk


It does seem strange, though, that we’re taking this ride in a Model X — because until this evening, there were going to be “autonomous electric skates” that zip passengers around at 120 to 150 miles per hour. These skates were supposed to carry eight to 16 people in a pod or a single car. Unlike with a more conventional subway, these skates don’t stop between where a person gets on and where they might get off; every skate runs express to one’s final destination.

Anyway, the skates have been canceled. “The car is the skate,” Musk says.

The Boring Company
A set of wheels facing sideways will be attached to autonomous electric vehicles — like the Model X I was in, though Musk says any autonomous electric vehicle will do. (“We used Tesla because I run Tesla,” Musk says.) Meaning: no gas cars! The speed estimates haven’t changed, even with the guide wheels replacing the skates. And some of the system’s vehicles will be dedicated pedestrian transport. The rest will be private. Musk figures the guide wheel sets, which align the car with the walls of the tunnel, will cost $200 to $300. He showed an animation of the tracking wheels folding under the car and disappearing; the current tracking wheels do not seem to do this. At least, I did not personally see them disappear.
 
jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,084
15,175
Portland, OR
slyfink

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,795
5,625
Ottawa, Canada
We need a meme of a foggy city, and people choking on the fumes, asking how people are enjoying their freedom gas... Or or someone intubated and hooked to an IV, with the lines: never smoked a day in his/her life, is enjoying the effects of freedom gas...
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,751
8,750
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/moodys-analytics-says-climate-change-could-cost-69-trillion-by-2100/2019/07/02/f9fb94ac-99cb-11e9-916d-9c61607d8190_story.html?utm_term=.a3825028dd15

Separately, the chief economist of Equinor, the Norwegian oil company previously known as Statoil, has written a report that looks at three scenarios for climate change and its impact on global economies, especially on energy.

Only one of those, the report said, would lead to a sustainable path, but that path comes with enormous challenges. To reach that set of targets by 2050, “almost all use of coal must be eradicated,” oil demand would need to be halved, and natural gas demand trimmed by more than 10 percent. Renewables as well as carbon capture and storage or utilization would have to increase sharply, helped by continuing advances in technology.

“In order to hit 1.5 degrees Celsius, the model to get there is enormously challenging,” said Eirik Waerness, senior vice president and chief economist of Equinor. He said more than half of new cars would have to be electric vehicles by 2030. Electricity demand will double, yet wind and solar would equal the entire current electricity output, a leap from current levels.
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Yeah, that's not happening. Plan for the worst.
 
stevew

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,161
10,100
slyfink said:
We need a meme of a foggy city, and people choking on the fumes, asking how people are enjoying their freedom gas... Or or someone intubated and hooked to an IV, with the lines: never smoked a day in his/her life, is enjoying the effects of freedom gas...
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los angeles.....portland....seattle....
 
maxyedor

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
10 out of 10, would buy

The fact that hybridization and electrification have yet to hit pick-ups and vans is baffling, and annoying. I've got tons of room for batteries in the Tacoma, even with the tiny bed, why are there none?
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,751
8,750
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,751
8,750
jonKranked said:
something about that whole thing seemed a bit dubious
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Also see Toyota Tundra pulling the Space Shuttle around for a bit, Touareg V10 pulling a 747, etc. Pulling shit on flat ground isn't the issue. :D
 
rideit

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,686
12,481
In the cleavage of the Tetons
I am not so concerned with that as I am the fact that they are making working prototypes.
My buy-in time frame is probably ~4 years, I am hoping ford gets this out by then. I would prefer the security and convenience of a massive nation wide service network, and possibly the dealerships will have high watt charging stations by then. Even Moab has a Ford dealership.
 
maxyedor

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
As far as pointless tests go, 1 million pounds is still roughly double the dry weight of a 747, which itself is more than double the weight of the space shuttle. The f150 wins the pointless towing test by a mile, and virtually all metrics used by manufacturers to measure cars these days are irrelevant to an average consumer, why not make them the most irrelevant?

I’m with Rideit on this one, if it’s got an okay range when towing a small travel trailer and the price isn’t astronomical I’d love one, I’m also probably 3-4 years from needed a new truck, so timeline wise this thing is looking like a potential winner.
 
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