[boostindoubles]

But... bike sheds. Maybe we can make some bong sheds???

denmark is repurposing discarded wind turbine blades as bike shelters

www.designboom.com

 

[Changleen]

Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills

Companies are searching for ways to deal with the tens of thousands of blades that have reached the end of their lives.

www.bloomberg.com

Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills

Typical Bloomberg. Read the article snd it turns out all the blades to made through 2050 would represent .015% of landfill mass and that they are landfill safe. And despite it being ‘hard’ to recycle it is not actually impossible. In fact at Siemens in Aalborg we recycled all the blade waste materials with a specialist recycler who were effectively legislated into existence, thus becoming part of the cost of doing business. This shit isn’t hard in a functional democracy.

Finally, actually most blades were/are designed for a 20 year service life, but actually at the end of the lives of the first blades, testing showed nearly all of them are totally fine still. There was a programme where these were sold to poorer countries and they went into a second life in less harsh operating conditions. This is what we should aim for too.

I am fed up with this BS ‘oh no theres a tiny downside to green tech’ rubbish. Of course there fucking is, there are downsides to absolutely everything, but a quick look at the big picture should be a quick remedy to these points. However is a very American psychpathy to throw the baby out with the bathwater — examples abound; vote republican because the democrats aren’t perfect, don’t stop burning fossil fuels that are literally gonna make the planet uninhabitable because a small percentage of lithium mines have poor labour practices. It’s fucking retarded as shit. Stop it.

 

[Changleen]

But... bike sheds. Maybe we can make some bong sheds???

denmark is repurposing discarded wind turbine blades as bike shelters

www.designboom.com

When we were making the really big blades (nearly all are huge now) I often thought how much fun it would be to skate inside a half.

 

[Changleen]

They also sound really cool if you talk inside them, weird echoes abound, would make a great bongshed for sure!

 

[mandown]

am fed up with this BS ‘oh no theres a tiny downside to green tech’ rubbish. Of course there fucking is, there are downsides to absolutely everything, but a quick look at the big picture should be a quick remedy to these points. However is a very American psychpathy to throw the baby out with the bathwater — examples abound; vote republican because the democrats aren’t perfect, don’t stop burning fossil fuels that are literally gonna make the planet uninhabitable because a small percentage of lithium mines have poor labour practices. It’s fucking retarded as shit. Stop it.

it’s painful. California just had to endure a recall election because a portion of the population wasn’t happy with some of the decisions he made. The field of optional candidates was ridiculous.

We are definitely trapped in a place where people argue the good as the enemy of the perfect, when it isn’t. When one “side” has a proposal of any kind, the opposition measures it against a theoretical “perfect” for shortcomings instead of the existing reality for improvement. The fun really begins when each side starts moving goal posts by arguing different definitions of the perfect solution.

 

[Changleen]

it’s painful. California just had to endure a recall election because a portion of the population wasn’t happy with some of the decisions he made. The field of optional candidates was ridiculous.

We are definitely trapped in a place where people argue the good as the enemy of the perfect, when it isn’t. When one “side” has a proposal of any kind, the opposition measures it against a theoretical “perfect” for shortcomings instead of the existing reality for improvement. The fun really begins when each side starts moving goal posts by arguing different definitions of the perfect solution.

Yeah, I feel your pain from literally the other side of the world. American policy often affects the entire planet unfortunately, the carbon footprint of your domestic fleet being one example. It’s hard to watch, a reckoning is in order I hope, but it’s hard to see it at the moment.

 

[dump]

Yeah, I feel your pain from literally the other side of the world. American policy often affects the entire planet unfortunately, the carbon footprint of your domestic fleet being one example. It’s hard to watch, a reckoning is in order I hope, but it’s hard to see it at the moment.

Have said it many times before… it’s coming.

 

[Jm_]

Typical Bloomberg. Read the article snd it turns out all the blades to made through 2050 would represent .015% of landfill mass and that they are landfill safe. And despite it being ‘hard’ to recycle it is not actually impossible. In fact at Siemens in Aalborg we recycled all the blade waste materials with a specialist recycler who were effectively legislated into existence, thus becoming part of the cost of doing business. This shit isn’t hard in a functional democracy.

Finally, actually most blades were/are designed for a 20 year service life, but actually at the end of the lives of the first blades, testing showed nearly all of them are totally fine still. There was a programme where these were sold to poorer countries and they went into a second life in less harsh operating conditions. This is what we should aim for too.

I am fed up with this BS ‘oh no theres a tiny downside to green tech’ rubbish. Of course there fucking is, there are downsides to absolutely everything, but a quick look at the big picture should be a quick remedy to these points. However is a very American psychpathy to throw the baby out with the bathwater — examples abound; vote republican because the democrats aren’t perfect, don’t stop burning fossil fuels that are literally gonna make the planet uninhabitable because a small percentage of lithium mines have poor labour practices. It’s fucking retarded as shit. Stop it.

BUT THE LITHIUM MINES!

 

[stevew]

BUT THE LITHIUM MINES!

its what other countries are for...

 

[iRider]

I am fed up with this BS ‘oh no theres a tiny downside to green tech’ rubbish. Of course there fucking is, there are downsides to absolutely everything, but a quick look at the big picture should be a quick remedy to these points.

While I am with you on this, I think there still needs to be an evaluation and societal discussion on which way to go. You can not kill all arguments by 'we need to do it quick' and 'look at the big picture'.

For example, all this Ocean fertilization/carbon capture with minerals is in principle a neat idea, however, it yet has to be proven that it works on a larger scale and does not change the ecosystem. While the governments put a lot of money behind these ideas because they can show success before the next elections, the time frame that we see the consequences that these technologies have are decades. I am sometimes afraid that we spring to action and fucking things more up than we do good with these ideas.

Politicians just don't want to tell the truth to the population. In the end we need to change our lifestyle, reduce the population, travel less, consume less but more responsibe, eat less meat, etc., so all things people are not willing to do. So telling them we can engineer us out of the problem helps the politicians to not needing to make unpopular decisions. Currently a lot of the actions taken are just to fend off the symptoms instead of attacking the problem head-on.

For the big picture perspective, maybe you should go really big here: human survival is not needed for life on Earth to continue.

 

[mykel]

BUT THE LITHIUM MINES!

You forgot...

...But China building coal generating stations...

Just because the other guy is smoking while eating and butting his smoke on his plate does not mean we have to continue to do the same fucking thing.


Mine is almost worn out - need to get another one of these.

 

[stevew]

https://electrek.co/2021/10/11/kawasaki-announces-its-motorcycles-to-go-all-electric-by-2035/?fbclid=IwAR3fS82yIpmjC0qr6VchzMFv8z3ONFTbO2KfCLsxcdLHvRlJGOZvnmdD_z0

 

[maddog17]

You forgot...

...But China building coal generating stations...

Just because the other guy is smoking while eating and butting his smoke on his plate does not mean we have to continue to do the same fucking thing.


Mine is almost worn out - need to get another one of these.

View attachment 165507

i need that shirt

 

[kidwoo]

I am fed up with this BS ‘oh no theres a tiny downside to green tech’ rubbish. Of course there fucking is, there are downsides to absolutely everything, but a quick look at the big picture should be a quick remedy to these points. However is a very American psychpathy to throw the baby out with the bathwater — examples abound; vote republican because the democrats aren’t perfect, don’t stop burning fossil fuels that are literally gonna make the planet uninhabitable because a small percentage of lithium mines have poor labour practices. It’s fucking retarded as shit. Stop it.

Don't disagree with any of this, however.........

"consume less and stop treating transportation and endless energy as a given" never seems to be a part of any of these conversations

Another way to look at it as well, is that people now consider long-term downsides of systems in a way that was never even considered as we built up the fossil fuels industries. That's a good thing.

And yeah man, fuck lithium mines. Really

 

[Changleen]

Don't disagree with any of this, however.........

"consume less and stop treating transportation and endless energy as a given" never seems to be a part of any of these conversations

Another way to look at it as well, is that people now consider long-term downsides of systems in a way that was never even considered as we built up the fossil fuels industries. That's a good thing.

And yeah man, fuck lithium mines. Really

The lithium mines thing really is mostly a red herring. A green-biased view here but 95% accurate:

Lithium batteries: a lot of fake news | AltEnergyMag

Whether it is to equip electric vehicles, or to store electricity generated by solar energy installations or wind farms, lithium-ion batteries have become an important part of the energy transition. But in some media and social networks, their ecological footprints are often listed separately...

www.altenergymag.com

 

[kidwoo]

The lithium mines thing really is mostly a red herring. A green-biased view here but 95% accurate:

Lithium batteries: a lot of fake news | AltEnergyMag

Whether it is to equip electric vehicles, or to store electricity generated by solar energy installations or wind farms, lithium-ion batteries have become an important part of the energy transition. But in some media and social networks, their ecological footprints are often listed separately...

www.altenergymag.com

uh.......yeah......

I quit reading at this part

I happen to live right by where most of the things are going in in the US. It's not a red herring. At all. For a large number of reasons. You don't get to ignore the inherent problems with large scale metals mining just because you want to depart fossil fuels, and don't depend on the already stressed groundwater resources where these things are going up.

Protect Thacker Pass

Protect Thacker Pass from the largest hard rock lithium mine in the world which will destroy the landscape and ecosystem along with all wild beings who call Thacker Pass home.

www.protectthackerpass.org

The southwestern end of this lakebed I know very well is already being torn up with god knows what going into the ground water table, with signs for the tesla mining co. everywhere. There are 3 more with something similar going on that I know about.


View attachment 166153

And no, rich white people in cities with teslas don't have water wells there that they depend on to live........but some people do.

Once again, public, or worse....indigenous land is being used to fuel a bullshit lifestyle. It's a mistake we never learn from, or just don't give a damn about. You're dismissing quite a bit as a 'red herring' and use a trade publication (again) to defend a very vested interest.


And yes I'm proposing massive literal pendulum that resets using wind and solar power creating a perpetual motion machine that we all run pneumatic pumps off of.

-brought to you by your friends at Air Hoses R' Us™

 

[kidwoo]

oh hai

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1450595422796492801

Pretty generic coverage... But if evaporation ponds, heavy metal dust being blown around in one of the windiest states in the nation, and sulfuric acid extraction don't ring a bell, that's a lot of what defines superfund sites in america. I've been cleaning those wastelands up for 20 years and this is setting up to be making a lot of the same mistakes made 100 years ago.

They say that's the only fully functioning mine site but I'm seeing the extraction facilities pop up all over the state.

 

[Jm_]

oh hai

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1450595422796492801

Pretty generic coverage... But if evaporation ponds, heavy metal dust being blown around in one of the windiest states in the nation, and sulfuric acid extraction don't ring a bell, that's a lot of what defines superfund sites in america. I've been cleaning those wastelands up for 20 years and this is setting up to be making a lot of the same mistakes made 100 years ago.

They say that's the only fully functioning mine site but I'm seeing the extraction facilities pop up all over the state.

Why is dude saying he's never ever seen anything like what looks exactly like any salt-evap pond? We see these around the Bay Area, Salt Lake City, lots of places.

 

[kidwoo]

Why is dude saying he's never ever seen anything like what looks exactly like any salt-evap pond? We see these around the Bay Area, Salt Lake City, Salton Sea, lots of places.

because he's a shitty reporter and should not have his job

 

[Changleen]

oh hai

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1450595422796492801

Pretty generic coverage... But if evaporation ponds, heavy metal dust being blown around in one of the windiest states in the nation, and sulfuric acid extraction don't ring a bell, that's a lot of what defines superfund sites in america. I've been cleaning those wastelands up for 20 years and this is setting up to be making a lot of the same mistakes made 100 years ago.

They say that's the only fully functioning mine site but I'm seeing the extraction facilities pop up all over the state.

This is really a regulatory issue IMO. As my article pointed out, traditional mining generally produces higher purity lithium which is what batteries need. Why not ban this method or place heavy restrictions on induced secondary pollution so extraction peeps either have to innovate to comply or go elsewhere? I know American is terrible at that though (see ongoing methane clusterfuck from old oil) but I don’t think it’s ‘not-doable’, it’s just once again $ before.. well everything. Lithium is pretty commonplace afterall.

 

[kidwoo]

I'll get right on that.

Energy companies and the gov'ts that work for them are literally incapable of doing things correctly. I don't know why anyone expects this version will be any different. Like you say, too much money involved. We need to burn less. That doesn't mean we need to create a comparable damaging surrogate. But that's exactly what's going to happen and no amount of good intentions will change that. The rest of the planet will be subject to america and china's greed, just like always. Billions of dollars behind some of the strongest virtue signaling environmental groups on the planet are available in CA and instead of making it less flammable, they chased around mountainbikes and dirtbikes for 40 years.

 

[Changleen]

I'll get right on that.

Energy companies and the gov'ts that work for them are literally incapable of doing things correctly. I don't know why anyone expects this version will be any different. Like you say, too much money involved. We need to burn less. That doesn't mean we need to create a comparable damaging surrogate. But that's exactly what's going to happen and no amount of good intentions will change that. The rest of the planet will be subject to america and china's greed, just like always. Billions of dollars behind some of the strongest virtue signaling environmental groups on the planet are available in CA and instead of making it less flammable, they chased around mountainbikes and dirtbikes for 40 years.

At the end of the day though, even shitty lithium extraction is a extremely localised and contained environmental issue compared to (checks notes) making the entire planet uninhabitable for nearly all advanced life.

It is, to a large degree ‘not the rest of the world’s problem’ if your local lawmakers suck the evil teat of capitalism before considering the extra volume of childhood cancers, polluted groundwater catchments etc they are causing via negligence. Essentially If you allow such a thing to go ahead, it’s up to you to not let let Tesla be a dick about it because, again under US corporate law they are essentially compelled to ‘deliver the most value to shareholders’. See Germany for a half-way decent counter-example.

 

[kidwoo]

I'll get right on that


Other than maybe the great depression and one sweaty rich kid president during the cuban missle crisis, america has never really ever faced its own mortality. Things just don't work here the way they're supposed to.

Also, counterpoint: travel less, or in a more responsible manner so that gas replacements don't need to happen at a similar scale

We can all invent fantasies.

here's my personal one. gotta work for it!

Vauxhall Teases the First Full-Size Wind-Up Car

Remember the wind-up tin toys that appeared during the 1880s? If you’re too young to remember, ask your grandparents about them. As it happens, Bri...

www.autoevolution.com

 

[Changleen]

Your to do list is getting a bit long. I’m gonna need a report on how you’re planning to address this problem as a priority please, add it to the list now.

 

[kidwoo]

Your to do list is getting a bit long. I’m gonna need a report on how you’re planning to address this problem as a priority please, add it to the list now.

kill whitey


that's it

just kill whitey

the rest will follow

 

[kidwoo]

In all seriousness, my real problem is not with lithium, or even mining. It's that never in the history of extractive resource acquisition has it ever been handled well in this country (and you know it won't be in china). And the rush to replace fossil fuel transportation always misses the most vital part IMO which is this: maybe your entitled ass doesn't need to travel across the country or the globe several times of year just because it's a market and someone can make money off of it.

Because until that is addressed (which will be never), things like this will happen on such a scale, and with so much investment momentum behind them, that we will assuredly fuck it up, in ways that won't even be known for another 20 years minimum..........just like everything else we've ever done.

Nevada's deserts are seriously some of the most unique landscapes left on this planet. Because they're not overun with shitbag endeavors, be it fracking or tourism. It genuinely bugs me that this state is the next frontier in poorly planned ideas. And the way those mines are being setup, it's sloppy, just because no zillionaire has a home near one.

We have a chance to setup a new system that could be better in so many ways. But we won't, and we aren't. And no amount of hOlDiNg yOuR rEpReSeNtAtIvEs aCcOuNtAbLe will have any efficacy whatsoever. There's too much money behind it. We never learn. We live in broken nation. But we still figure out ways to fuck over indigenous and poor people over it so wealthy shits in cities can have the coolest new toy.

So yeah, a complete unwavering, no discussion possible attitude about getting off of fossil fuels approach gets on my nerves. We're not doing this right and the ends justifying the means is bullshit. It's lazy and has thousands of years of being used to justify the most heinous crap this species has ever done.

Look up 'solar salt towers' in Nevada. Useless monuments built to honor dumb ideas rushed through.

 

[Changleen]

I was reading an interesting presentation about a green hydrogen project in LA today. Making (solar/wind) and storing (underground) it in Nevada and Utah then piping it to LA to be used in a few public H2 refilling stations but the majority going to the two ports (Port of LA and Long Beach). Battery storage was considered but due to the nature of the seasonal profile they really need months long (seasonal) storage and batteries aren’t great at that. Anyway, technically looked good, they recon they can do <$2kg by 2030, but the major risk they cited was essentially disinformation and public trust.

Sigh.

 

[Jm_]

I was reading an interesting presentation about a green hydrogen project in LA today. Making (solar/wind) and storing (underground) it in Nevada and Utah then piping it to LA to be used in a few public H2 refilling stations but the majority going to the two ports (Port of LA and Long Beach). Battery storage was considered but due to the nature of the seasonal profile they really need months long (seasonal) storage and batteries aren’t great at that. Anyway, technically looked good, they recon they can do <$2kg by 2030, but the major risk they cited was essentially disinformation and public trust.

Sigh.

Wait...did you say Hydrogen Pipeline?

 

[Changleen]

Wait...did you say Hydrogen Pipeline?

Yup. Entirely doable and safer than a petroleum pipeline, I assure you.

 

[Jm_]

Yup. Entirely doable and safer than a petroleum pipeline, I assure you.

Well how about this, hear me out, but what if there was a way to transport hydrogen in some sort of compound, where it would be totally safe and which would require no pressure, compression, seals, storage tanks, etc., so it would be extremely efficient to move, and then you could just say pass a current into it to free the hydrogen at the destination? Maybe with all the energy you save transporting it in a pressurized pipeline and building said pipeline?

 

[kidwoo]

hay gais

check out my gofundme page

I think this could be big

 

[Changleen]

Well how about this, hear me out, but what if there was a way to transport hydrogen in some sort of compound, where it would be totally safe and which would require no pressure, compression, seals, storage tanks, etc., so it would be extremely efficient to move, and then you could just say pass a current into it to free the hydrogen at the destination? Maybe with all the energy you save transporting it in a pressurized pipeline and building said pipeline?

Those certainly exist, in various forms, but this particular business case wasn’t calling on those solutions. It didn’t specifically say if they were planning on existing pipelines, and I have no idea about SoCal infrastructure as it stands. Some pipes would support H2 already, but some absolutely don’t.

 

[Changleen]

I just checked again, it appears they are planning to use existing natural gas pipelines. Here is the relevant slide:

 

[Jm_]

I just checked again, it appears they are planning to use existing natural gas pipelines. Here is the relevant slide:

View attachment 166351

Sure, but how much energy will it take to compress it into a usable form at the destination? I'm thinking a crapload, since it takes some pretty crazy PSI to get it into a form that's somewhat energy dense and usable for different purposes. Just doesn't seem very practical...

 

[kidwoo]

JFC



PT barnum was right

 

[Changleen]

Sure, but how much energy will it take to compress it into a usable form at the destination? I'm thinking a crapload, since it takes some pretty crazy PSI to get it into a form that's somewhat energy dense and usable for different purposes. Just doesn't seem very practical...

Apparently $0.25c, or zero (uncompressed, which is viable if you aren’t relying on speed):

 

[iRider]

But we still figure out ways to fuck over indigenous and poor people over it so wealthy shits in cities can have the coolest new toy.

Not the nicest way to talk about our fellow monkey from NZ.

 

[DaveW]

It's ok I'm used to colonizers acting that way.

 

[Toshi]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/42822/rolls-royce-and-boeing-trial-sustainable-fuel-on-747-test-flight

 

[Changleen]

Better than fossil fuels but still not ‘great’. They should commit to at least an equal, or idealy two or three timesthe amount of actual sequestration to balance out historical impact.