How’s she coming along @sikocycles?
I have a lot to learn with the ol’ tig welder. I‘m finishing up my front triangle and it is getting better but man was it a rough start. Filling holes looks to be my strength just after blowing holes.
The garage frame building journey
- Thread starter sikocycles
- Start date
I have a lot to learn with the ol’ tig welder. I‘m finishing up my front triangle and it is getting better but man was it a rough start. Filling holes looks to be my strength just after blowing holes.
I will be welding up the front triangle this weekend. Its been a busy crazy last couple weeks so I hope I can get the front triangle finished.
Then to the rear which is the hard part.
Hang in there. I still blow holes but not like when I started. It was awful. Just make sure you have a good welding helmet.
Then to the rear which is the hard part.
Hang in there. I still blow holes but not like when I started. It was awful. Just make sure you have a good welding helmet.
Yes, I can’t see very well most of the time. I’ll look into a better helmet. Any recommendations?
I added some gussets and blew a few more holes yesterday.
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The lower shock mount is the last thing to do. I want to do that today and then try and maybe even gat a run in.
Any ideas where I can order some cromo plate?
I was considering using a shockmount from an old Scott Voltage FR. I think I’ll weld on the steel one.
I have a Lincoln Viking auto darkening for tacking and some welding. I also have a Jackson passive with a #9 gold lens. This is like a standard in the frame welding industry
Awesome! Thanks. I got flashed yesterday out of nowhere. Is that why you use an auto darkening only for tacking and some welding?
Are you using some special tig rod?
I appreciate the tips!
Here’s how the lower shock mount turned out. I’m on the hunt for heat sinks now!
It’s funny. I normally hate internal routing because I swap brakes a lot, etc. but here I am thinking how nice she’d look with internal routing…..
And I made her a shiny matching top cap and headset dust cap.
It’s funny. I normally hate internal routing because I swap brakes a lot, etc. but here I am thinking how nice she’d look with internal routing…..
And I made her a shiny matching top cap and headset dust cap.
I thought briefly about cleaning it… but then again, I thought that would only be to misrepresent myself in a much cleaner fashion, haha.all that looks fucking awesome...other than all the crap all over the back end!
Internal cable routing on a steel bike is a shit idea unless you treat the frame really well internally or run sealed tubing through the frame.
I had my hardtail made with nutserts on the bottom of the DT to run the cables there, I initially used the Syncros guides but now I only have a brake line as the gears and dropper use the electric boogaloo so I use these sorta things-
I had my hardtail made with nutserts on the bottom of the DT to run the cables there, I initially used the Syncros guides but now I only have a brake line as the gears and dropper use the electric boogaloo so I use these sorta things-
Easy weld plate, not sure if they will ship to you.
www.mcmaster.com
I use and auto darkening to see where the torch and tig rod is. Hard to see it with a passive helmet. I go back and forth but I use my auto helmet more. Just get a good helmet. It make a HUGE difference.
Tig rod I am using
https://www.bikefabsupply.com/filler-rod/er-70s-2-035-x-36-1-lb and
I use the .045 more since it cools the puddle better and less burn thru and holes.
I finished the front triangle yesterday and did not come out great. Hard to get a good weld angle on some to the tubes plus I was not using enough heat in places.
McMaster-Carr
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I use and auto darkening to see where the torch and tig rod is. Hard to see it with a passive helmet. I go back and forth but I use my auto helmet more. Just get a good helmet. It make a HUGE difference.
Tig rod I am using
https://www.bikefabsupply.com/filler-rod/er-70s-2-035-x-36-1-lb and
I use the .045 more since it cools the puddle better and less burn thru and holes.
I finished the front triangle yesterday and did not come out great. Hard to get a good weld angle on some to the tubes plus I was not using enough heat in places.
Here are a few pictures. Be nice guys. It’s my first frame.
Not enought heat on the spot. PITA place to weld, just wants to melt away.
Not enought heat on the spot. PITA place to weld, just wants to melt away.
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Not sure what I give you are tips since we are going thru the same stuff. it is just what I found out with research.
Sounds good. It looks like you know what you are doing so I’m interested.
What amps were you running? I think I was too hot but I couldn’t get a puddle going when I was lower than 38 to 41?
Are you using pulse?
I am at about 1 pulse per second, 101 amps. 25ish% peak 5% background.
1 amp per thousands of an inch is what is called for usually.
1 amp per thousands of an inch is what is called for usually.
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I did not. I used the pedal and was around 37-41 amps. I will try the pulse and thanks for some settings!
Nice work on the alignment!
I stopped by a riding buddy’s frame building workshop last night to face and chase the bb.
https://instagram.com/atelier_d_olive?utm_medium=copy_link
Olivier does some really fine craftsmanship with brazing and tig so basically the opposite of what I did. It was super cool to see his shop and he says my frame should hold up. The down tube is his biggest concern thinking I didn’t use enough filler rod. He was also surprised that my bb didn’t move too much without heat sinks and all the heat I put in there.
Olivier explained to me about how he does a lay wire pulse technique. I will try what you guys are saying.
I do a lay wire also. Here is a good read about it.
www.44bikes.com
Also tacking. That the hardest part for me.
www.44bikes.com
Kris posts a lot of good stuff. Love his flicker since I am not on IG or FB.
Heat sinks. I use a paragon BB and Sputnik in HT and ST
I need get mine faced andchased also.
Laywire 101 - 44 Bikes
Back in 1995, when I was a Sophomore at Penn State University, I was across the street from the Jewelery Departments studio spaces in the Arts and Architecture building's shop space. Well outfitted woodshop dovetailed to a metal shop. Over on the metal shop side, I noticed a big Miller TIG...
www.44bikes.com
Tack Sequence - 44 Bikes
Over the years I've been asked about my weld sequence. I've been asked it enough times and I've written it enough times that I think it's about time I make it permanent here, in ink, on the 44HQ Blog. Apologies for the radio silence for some time. With all that's been going on, I've honestly
www.44bikes.com
Heat sinks. I use a paragon BB and Sputnik in HT and ST
I need get mine faced andchased also.
Thanks. Those articles help a lot! I have a better idea of what to practice now with the settings, etc.
I got the bb faced and chased and spot welded on the cable guides yesterday. Just need to bleed a front brake and she’s ready. I pedaled up the road last night to manual back down. Feels solid like a bicycle should and manuals real good but I have the bars pretty high. Sidenote, I bought a 200mm Fox dropper post a while ago but I couldn’t fit it in any of the frames I have currently because it‘s so long. I tweaked the seat angle a tit hair steeper on my “precision jig“ than my last frame and it fits on this frame! Pretty happy about that.
Oh and I forgot to order 38mm tubing for the down tube so it’s a 35mm, haha. I guess I get to try a more compliant front triangle than my last frame.
I got the bb faced and chased and spot welded on the cable guides yesterday. Just need to bleed a front brake and she’s ready. I pedaled up the road last night to manual back down. Feels solid like a bicycle should and manuals real good but I have the bars pretty high. Sidenote, I bought a 200mm Fox dropper post a while ago but I couldn’t fit it in any of the frames I have currently because it‘s so long. I tweaked the seat angle a tit hair steeper on my “precision jig“ than my last frame and it fits on this frame! Pretty happy about that.
Oh and I forgot to order 38mm tubing for the down tube so it’s a 35mm, haha. I guess I get to try a more compliant front triangle than my last frame.
This has become a great thread on rookie frame building. So happy I posted my journey and same with @buckoW.
There will be alot of mistakes, I have already
On a side note I will tig braze with silicon bronze my bottle bosses and cable stops. Uses less hear the tig welding and should hold up.
There will be alot of mistakes, I have already
On a side note I will tig braze with silicon bronze my bottle bosses and cable stops. Uses less hear the tig welding and should hold up.
I am happy you are ok with me posting so many pics and asking questions. Haha, I was holding back… For a moment there I thought I might be stepping on your beautiful frame jig’s toes!
I really enjoy attempting this at the same time that you are.
I had my first few runs on my bike and I am really happy with how it rides. I was comfy very quick and nothing broke or bent.
No problem. Great build. Happy it is working for you.
As Drew from Engin Cycles say. #allabouttheprocess we can all learn from each other. Can’t wait until my frame is done
As Drew from Engin Cycles say. #allabouttheprocess we can all learn from each other. Can’t wait until my frame is done
I’m going back for some runs on mine today. Pretty excited!
#allaboutthrocess I couldn’t get the angle I needed with the v and tube blocks I had for the seat tube construction so I ended up using a dm stem mounted to a block of alu. I liked the creative process of problem solving with what I have on hand.
A buddy mentioned turning the hole saws in a lathe to make the miters that much tighter as well as using hole saws with a lot more small cutters. I might throw a wobbly one in the lathe and see what happens. I like the idea of making a cheaper hole saw more precise.
Annular cutters look sweet for miters. Have you tried anything like that? It would be cool to set up an auto centering vice on a dividing table on a horizontal mill. It seems like you could go pretty fast and precise with something like that.
I do face my hole saws on the lathe before I put the arbor in. Removes the paint and I get a flatter surface. Not sure how much different it makes but I do it. I will do a before a after video.
never tried that I just use paragon blocks and the miter daddy
never tried that I just use paragon blocks and the miter daddy
I took the vertical head off of my small mill this morning to see if I could figure out a better way with what I have. Miters using the hole saw mounted horizontally works real nice. I can use the angle gauge on the pivoting vice now rather than by eye. This will be a much better more rigid setup too, I think.
That is how firefly and engin does most of their tube mitering on horizontal mills. When I went to Firefly they had dedicated machines for each tube.
watch the Engin shop tour from Cobra frame works.
watch the Engin shop tour from Cobra frame works.
Chainstay Monday. Drive side is fitted up and looks good.
Non-drive is very close. A lot of filing since don’t have the right side hole saw. Plus it’s good to work on the filing. Should have it fit up tomorrow and the tack. Install into frame fixture and tack to BB.
then weld her up.
Then onto the seat stays.
Non-drive is very close. A lot of filing since don’t have the right side hole saw. Plus it’s good to work on the filing. Should have it fit up tomorrow and the tack. Install into frame fixture and tack to BB.
then weld her up.
Then onto the seat stays.
Oh man, that Engin shop is so cool! I love all the big old machines.
That chainstay jig is such a sweet setup. I kinda like the fixture making part as much as the frame building.
My hole saws mounted to Morse taper 3 arbors are sometimes too far away to get the angles. Paragon doesn’t have any hole saw arbors in stock (i later found some at Ceeway) so I tried my hand at making one with a die holder in the tailstock. I think I will order the rest of the arbors I want rather than make more. It was a pain to thread it like that and I should learn to cut the threads on the lathe.
And a pic of my bike in my messy little shop.
So, when you are cleaning up your hole saws… Are you turning them down smaller, getting rid of the odd outboard teeth and shaving off all the paint? Just give her a little skim? Carbide? HSS?
I tried to do one but held in the chuck and I didn’t very get good results. I couldn’t get it turning close to straight and I chipped a carbide insert pretty quickly. Maybe if I did it after mounting it on an arbor it will have less runout after trimming?
I just face the top part when the arbor threads into. Get the paint off of it.
engin shop is a museum of old shop tools. Very cool.
Here are a few more hole saw arbor companies.
engin shop is a museum of old shop tools. Very cool.
Here are a few more hole saw arbor companies.
Ah ok! I was thinking I should turn it concentric to the arbor. I see what you mean now.
Those ATI hole saws look real nice!
Thanks for those links. I hadn’t seen the last 2. Ceeway in the UK got back to me and he has some in stock as well as some straight gauge 38mm cromo tubing I need for a downtube. I will try and bend a couple down tubes at a friend’s shop on his sweet Cobra tubing bender.
The cobra bender is on my list very soon
hey @sikocycles! You get any shop time in?
I started a shorter travel, lower standover version of my last frame last weekend. I attempted to refine it a bit more and try the pulse settings. Sometimes I forgot to reset the pulse settings after turning the welder on and I get the full amps without pulse. Woah! That will blow a hole pretty quick. I did feel like I progressed but I haven’t shown it to any competent welders yet. I have a few fabricator and engineer friends that I like to get their squint eye opinions on these before I ride it.
Still needs a shock mount, cable guides and a couple gussets on the dt and st. The downtube is a Dedeccaci and it is supposed to have the bend at the headtube to clear the fork crown. The butting is not ideal (.8mm at the headtube side) like this but I’ll throw a couple gussets at her and ride some leafy loam for a few runs just in case I get…….Double Butted. Sketchy.
I tried to smooth out the angles more than my last one. The seat tube assembly got a lot of attention this time to smoothen out the angles. Offsetting the lower pivot and bb miter shifter the tube forward and decreased the sharp angles. Massaging this one a little.
Welding improvements I would say? I think my HAZ are much smaller this time?
Here you can see the changes to the lines. I made it a little longer with more stand over and the shock reservoir will hit the downtube so I will need to make this one a shorter travel version. I’m thinking 150-180mm of rear travel but that will depend of the piggyback touching the downtube at bottom out.
Nice! I am very surprised you know what those are! I thought they were a Euro only thing. Those are my favorite excavators for building the style of trails I like in the steep mountains around here. We built most of the Champery WC DH track with one. Imagine taking an excavator down that? It was scary everyday. I can dig up some pics if you are interested. I have way too many pictures of dirt piles next to Menzis. It just never translated well into pics.
My friend has a new one and here he is terracing in front of my house where I want to build a 2 car garage for not parking cars in there but for a frame building workshop. It is amazing how he hats a call and has to leave with his excavator how he tip toes between breakable Things.
I filed and fit the chainstays to the dropouts and tacked them.
Most of the weekend was leaf blowing so I did not get alot of shop time.
Awesome job.
Most of the weekend was leaf blowing so I did not get alot of shop time.
Awesome job.
I made the shock mounts and welded them on. Just need to tack on some cable guides and chase the bb.
You are killing it, great job