the gearbox thread
- Thread starter xy9ine
- Start date
Wow! ^^^
Pinions' website has also had an update after Eurobike,
http://pinion.eu/
I hope the gearbox & mounting standard are available to small builders....
http://pinion.eu/
I hope the gearbox & mounting standard are available to small builders....
I've just posted my report on the Pinion P1.18 gearbox here;
http://www.descent-world.co.uk/2011/09/12/eurobike-retrospective-2011-part-2-%e2%80%93-the-gearboxes/
This includes some very interesting DH specific news!
http://www.descent-world.co.uk/2011/09/12/eurobike-retrospective-2011-part-2-%e2%80%93-the-gearboxes/
This includes some very interesting DH specific news!
This bike was shown on the eurobike 2011, they use a separate inner bearing and a rohloff planetary transmission. I think during gravity downhill a damaged inner bearing won't harm the gearbox like the PINION solution.
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50s auto stylee.
Smooooth.
Bring it to Thredbo this year so I can chuck a leg over. Swap a run for a run on the Demo Zerode that'll be there this year.
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I am too busy getting things ready for my first run of 5 bikes to come and play yet Rod.
I am not happy enough with the MK2 to let her out in public. Definitely Mk3's ugly sister
It looks like a 6x3 arrangement. Shifting is controlled by a music box style shaft in the secondary spindle. There are 6 gears driven off the crank/primary spindle. Shifting selectively locks one of the mating gears to the secondary shaft, driving it at the selected ratio. The output of this can be switched between one of three return gears. The output of this drives the final spur set which spins the output gear on the primary shaft. If I'm imagining this right it's a pretty elegant solution. My only issue is that all of the gears would be spinning all the time. To solve this you would have to have shifting mechanisms on both spindles which is way more complex and heavy. All in all i like it. I'd been pondering something similar for a long time. I applaud them for surmounting the huge cost of prototyping gears.
I'm hoping they do a version with 3 shafts for DH. Trade the concentric output for a high position onto which you can mount a swingarm (a la GBOXX). It would save the need for a second chain and get a nice pivot location. I read that the DH will be a 6 speed. It would be simplest to drop 2 of the output sets (4 cogs) and making it a 1x6. If they do a 2x3 setup they'd drop 8 cogs and a fair bit more weight.
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I hope they don't, one of the bad parts of the GBoxx2 was that the pivot location was fixed and all the users of that system used it. It will mean the adoption won't be nearly as widespread as it could be if you're forcing people to use it. Admittedly this box is much smaller and easier to design pivots around compared to the GBoxx2 but I hope they keep the DH version (if it shows up) as similar to this as they can.
One designers idea of a nice location certainly isn't the next.
This I agree with. The distance between the primary and tertiary shafts could be modified a great deal. It would require new housings, but that's it. All the internals could be the same.
sorry, double post.
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looks heavy.
Why the hell do gearbox bike producers allways give complete bike weights? It's pure BS and avoiding the 2.5kg extra weight subject. I really respect Zerode for being one of the few gearbox companies who didn't go that way.
The answer is perhaps in your question. A gearbox bike has a lighter rear end, and a centralized weight, and therefore feels lighter to ride. So to judge a gearbox bike on weight is a bit trivial/misleading, we're not running up stairs with the things. Sure if you are familiar with how they feel to ride, and can take that into consideration, then yes a weight is helpful, but I can see why gearbox manufacturers don't want to give haters a reason to run around parroting crap and creating a witch hunt before their bikes even ridden. The whole weight thing is getting out of hand IMO. I think sub 17kg is to light, and loosing weight should be focused on rolling weight(wheels, brakes tyres etc), and unsprung weight, with mild focus on high weight like bars and seat. But frame wight strength etc should outweigh IMO.
I don't think Zerode published their weight until frames were out being ridden and liked on real merit.
Carry on.
Nope. They were posted before production.
As for loosing weight - lower weight centralised also matters. Not as much on wheels but 2 extra kg can be felt in the frame. That 2 extra kg of gearbox also won't make the frame stronger.
btw. My bike is sub 17kg. Saint brakes, 823 (actually d 3.1) rear, stans front, dh decidaced seat, no carbonz right now, full bashguad. Doesn't feel to light to me
As for loosing weight - lower weight centralised also matters. Not as much on wheels but 2 extra kg can be felt in the frame. That 2 extra kg of gearbox also won't make the frame stronger.
btw. My bike is sub 17kg. Saint brakes, 823 (actually d 3.1) rear, stans front, dh decidaced seat, no carbonz right now, full bashguad. Doesn't feel to light to me
It's tensioned with that sliding roller by the rear drop. The belts aren't supposed to be back-bent.
It's clean looking and simple which I like, but still needs a little polish. I'd like to see the newer gates cogs on there to prevent the belt from crabwalking off. They could also drop half the gears in there if they did a simple overdrive at one stage. Not much extra complexity, tons of weight saved.
The next part is conjecture, but stick with me. It seems that they use the same set of gears on both sides which is great for tooling costs, but heavier than it could be. One whole cluster could be on a carrier and you'd drop a handful of steel.
I never said it would.
I Like. Similar to Nicolai's Gboxx concept, but the gears here are meshed already instead of being connected by chains. How does this compare to the Gboxx's weight?
Thanks, yeah I see it now, it was obscured by the pedal in the first photo (probably what Ian was partially hinting at w/ the photo he posted, too).
ha ha informative first post, NOT. Put down the pipe. There's no more chain stretch than pretty much any other bike, there's a tiny bit of built in anti squat, you can't feel any pedal kickback. Brake squat is preferred by most, and most bikes have it to some degree. I've ridden high single pivots for years, with and without floaters. Floating brakes offer a plusher ride if you're a hack, but with 9.25" of travel, the Zerode still feels plenty plush, and rear traction and feel is much better controlled without a floater. The forks dive when you brake, having the rear match it somewhat keeps the head angle more consistent and predictable.
The center of gravity is below your knees, the rear end is super light and responsive, and pivots around the middle of the bike better. The BB height is about 14", remember there's 9.25" of travel, so at sag it's way lower. I'm guessing you've not actually ridden one, and are just trolling to hear your own voice. But hey, your entitled to your opinion(as am I), ride what you want, all bikes are a compromise to some degree, pick the one that suits you best, and enjoy having to pedal to change gears, and repairing your bent mechs, hangers, and tuning your drivetrain. Oh you like gearboxs,and what ones do you like? The heavy as G-Boxxs, or the yet to be implemented in a DH bike Pinion? Or one of the many others you most likely have not ridden.
The center of gravity is below your knees, the rear end is super light and responsive, and pivots around the middle of the bike better. The BB height is about 14", remember there's 9.25" of travel, so at sag it's way lower. I'm guessing you've not actually ridden one, and are just trolling to hear your own voice. But hey, your entitled to your opinion(as am I), ride what you want, all bikes are a compromise to some degree, pick the one that suits you best, and enjoy having to pedal to change gears, and repairing your bent mechs, hangers, and tuning your drivetrain. Oh you like gearboxs,and what ones do you like? The heavy as G-Boxxs, or the yet to be implemented in a DH bike Pinion? Or one of the many others you most likely have not ridden.
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that was hateful
anyways, i haven't riddent the zerode but I'm just saying that it is not a perfect design. Brake squat is a good thing, you're right, but from what I know, the amount of brake squat that the zerode has would not improve the ride. The center of gravity is well placed in the longitude of the bike but I'm talking verticaly if you know what I mean... I really like low center of gravities and for example a pinion style gearbox is much better that way.
You're right about the pedal feedback, it is fairly minimal, but for people who ride with flats and are pedaling through rough stuff the feedback will definitely be felt.
The bb isn't very high for a bike with 9 inches of travel but, IN MY OPINION, all the stuff sticking out under the bb, (including the expensive shock
) is fairly vulnerable to being trashed..No I do not like the G-boxx design.
Lets not forget that I like the Zerode, it's just not a perfect design
that was hateful
anyways, i haven't riddent the zerode but I'm just saying that it is not a perfect design. Brake squat is a good thing, you're right, but from what I know, the amount of brake squat that the zerode has would not improve the ride. The center of gravity is well placed in the longitude of the bike but I'm talking verticaly if you know what I mean... I really like low center of gravities and for example a pinion style gearbox is much better that way.
You're right about the pedal feedback, it is fairly minimal, but for people who ride with flats and are pedaling through rough stuff the feedback will definitely be felt.
The bb isn't very high for a bike with 9 inches of travel but, IN MY OPINION, all the stuff sticking out under the bb, (including the expensive shock
No I do not like the G-boxx design.
Lets not forget that I like the Zerode, it's just not a perfect design
I have tested a long list of the best DH frames over the last 1-2 years. Legend, Jedi, V-10, TR 450, and the Zerode has by far the least amount of pedal feedback and easily pedals over the roughest terrain if you are inclined. I have not lost a pedal once in about 5 months. Its bump eating ability is well above the previous bikes. I turns very well and is the stiffest FS MTB chassis I have ever ridden. If you are around the Western US hit me up to check one out.
I don't think anybody is arguing that it's a perfect design. Just that it's a really really, really really, well thought out, well put together, and leading edge design. Could they have done better? With unlimited resources and a final cost exceeding a carbon trek, sure.
I'd argue that the only dissatisfied customers seem to be people who have never ridden one, and i've only heard of a few people who have ridden one that didn't like it, and they struck me as the type of people who will bitch about anything; their complaints were chain lash and the width of the hub. Everybody else was stoked on the handling and the suspension, like a high pivot with a rising rate is anything new or exciting.
I'd argue that the only dissatisfied customers seem to be people who have never ridden one, and i've only heard of a few people who have ridden one that didn't like it, and they struck me as the type of people who will bitch about anything; their complaints were chain lash and the width of the hub. Everybody else was stoked on the handling and the suspension, like a high pivot with a rising rate is anything new or exciting.
No the CARBON BASHGUARD does its job.
Hmmm, I had to go look that up. That is really weird. You are right. A small demo has a reach of 410mm, and the large zerode is 396mm. How is that possible? Their theoretical horizontal top-tube lengths are almost the same, but of course that is very dependent on effective seat tube angle.
I had a chance to try a m/l zerode in Morzine last summer for three runs. I ride a large demo, and it felt instantly comfortable, and not too short. It must somehow force you to ride more rearward, with the seat position.
Very strange.