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The genius of Apple

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
My retina macbook pro has 5.1 million pixels. Theres not one other competitor that has that. Yea apple Sh*ts overpriced but then again when 2k porn starts coming out ill see 5.1 million pixels of tits.

P.S. syadasti i envy your job.
That's actually the least useful part of mac I can think off. You pay a lot more for something that looks better but in most cases has no use.



@Syadasti is there anything worth mentioning on the new os? From what I've read nothing great was really added.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Yes, they have. One was in Fountain, Colorado and another was in Sacramento. The fountain plant was sold to another tech firm in 1996, and the one in Sacramento was closed in 2004.
Apple was some what responsible until Jobs came back to Apple and then he moved everything overseas. Its a false claim that what they were doing couldn't be done in first world counties (see Nokia which was able to do it in the EU even with an obsolete S60 offerings for years - Nokia's party will be over soon if they don't make get a hit soon)...

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/837185/apple_the_hidden_costs_of_your_ipad_and_iphone.html

Gideon Middleton, a senior lecturer in business and climate change at the University of East Anglia, says Apple’s failure to shoulder its environmental and social responsibilities is down to one man: Steve Jobs.

'Even a company like Wal-Mart is quite forcefully pushing climate change and social responsibility down its supply chain in the Far East – I find it incongruous that Apple isn’t doing the same. To explain that disconnect in what in so many other ways seems to be a responsible brand you would have to look at the belief systems of a company’s senior managers. One would suspect that the ultimate person preventing these things happening is Steve Jobs himself.

It will be interesting to see who replaces Jobs as chief executive if he steps down due to poor health, Middleton adds. 'If they don’t put in someone with a more responsible, ethical and sustainable viewpoint, they will succumb to short-term financial pressures to keep producing more and more new products.'
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
@Syadasti is there anything worth mentioning on the new os? From what I've read nothing great was really added.
Its $20 for a reason. For the most part its like a free service pack on Windows (Apple is going to a yearly schedule).
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
That is a bit amusing since my apple maniac friend gave me a link to a 24 page review of it on ars technica.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
That is a bit amusing since my apple maniac friend gave me a link to a 24 page review of it on ars technica.
They added some features and integrated things to complement iOS/App Store/iCloud/etc but prefer keeping them separate. In use it doesn't seem any slower or faster though boot time is longer on my system. It won't turn people off as much as the radically different Windows 8.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I wasn't saying your comment was amusing - the 24 page article was.

As for win8 I've read only a bit about it and seen some people worry about how hard it will be to multi task on it. If true it's a bummer since I had high hopes for the win8 surface.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
I wasn't saying your comment was amusing - the 24 page article was.
I didn't take it that way. Just saying what I thought of Cougar 3.


As for win8 I've read only a bit about it and seen some people worry about how hard it will be to multi task on it. If true it's a bummer since I had high hopes for the win8 surface.
Its no problem to multitask on it and there is still a desktop view. The dramatically different UI will scare off most people. Again, I think it better to keep mobile and desktop systems separate - its really hard to make something that works ideally for both at the same time. I think its going to be a bigger stumble than Vista was...
 
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Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
No problem as most products now come stealth black, no one will know unless you tell them.
I don't really know much about Apple, my family would probably disown me if I went out and purchased a shiny iProduct, I like the stuff but I don't own a fixie so I'm not cool enough to own.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,161
2,686
The bunker at parliament
Top end stuff has been Linux based for at least 5 years now - talking custom state of the art productions. Years ago it was on SGI and Sun but those companies are yesterday's news.
Man that brings back some memories!
I used to run a SGI workstation back in the day.... fricking huge thing it was!!!
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
I used an SGI Octane for a while. That was just a little one.
Didn't have or use one but I've seen it before. Circa 1998:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/192/5

The Revolution IV boasts a unique feature that it can hold over the competition, it's 24-bit RGB Digital Data Output, which can be coupled with SGI's newly released Digital Flat Panel LCD for a true one-two punch. SGI's 1600SW monitor has no true competition for it's price range ($2795 w/ the Revolution IV). In comparison to AnandTech's Viewsonic ViewPanel analog LCD the 17.3" diagonal 1600SW's picture quality is virtually comparable to that of my own 21" Panasonic PanaSync E21. Just 20 minutes with the 1600SW made me want to kick myself for spending $1300 on a 21" CRT. The 1600SW supports the highest dot pitch at its native resolution, 110 dpi @ 1600 x 1024, of any monitor in its class as well as one of the highest pixel response rates of an LCD monitor.

 

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,558
0
Duh, Austin
I just spent 2 weeks in europe without a notebook, only an ipad. Never missed not having a full PC.

Glad I am getting out of the semiconductor world.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Apple agrees, Asus 7" tablet (first iteration officially announced 1.5 years ago) is genius:

Apple SVP Eddy Cue wanted 7-inch iPad in 2011, internal email says

iPad Mini Rear Shell Images Surface in China

Apple has to make 7" tablet in response to the Nexus 7 as people have rumored. There is no way in hell the masses are going to pay double for similar functionality (the larger screen is about the only real advantage and that depends on user needs/preferences vs one hand operation - the rear camera is redundant since a majority of the demographic owns smartphones which are used much more often than rear cameras on tablets). If Apple puts a 7 out this Fall I bet they'll go for the $299 pricepoint vs the $249 for the Nexus 7 16GB...
Another Steve Jobs fail, large screen smartphones ARE what people want:

Samsung Galaxy S3 is now the most pre-ordered gadget in history at nine million - beating the iPhone 4S's four million

Despite shortage, Galaxy S3 surpassed the 10 million units less than two month after launch
 
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syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
The Genius of Mitsubishi

Think different, think again: Mitsubishi invented the modern capacitive multitouch user interface and demoed a prototype in 2001 - 2 years before they demoed it to Apple, 4 years before Apple brought Fingerworks, and 6 years before the iPhone:


http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=502348.502389

UIST 2001: DiamondTouch: a multi-user touch technology
A technique for creating a touch-sensitive input device is proposed which allows multiple, simultaneous users to interact in an intuitive fashion. Touch location information is determined independently for each user, allowing each touch on a common surface to be associated with a particular user. The surface generates location dependent, modulated electric fields which are capacitively coupled through the users to receivers installed in the work environment. We describe the design of these systems and their applications. Finally, we present results we have obtained with a small prototype device.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
Build a better mouse trap. I love the S3 and will likely get one as an upgrade to my S1. I will also be getting the Nexus 7.

You seem to be enjoying your Nexus 7.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,134
7,680
Transylvania 90210
The Genius of Mitsubishi

Think different, think again: Mitsubishi invented the modern capacitive multitouch user interface and demoed a prototype in 2001 - 2 years before they demoed it to Apple, 4 years before Apple brought Fingerworks, and 6 years before the iPhone:


http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=502348.502389
So, what you are saying is that Mitsubishi was too dumb to see the market application of their own product and the potential consumer demand. I have minimal interest, other than for Trivial Pursuit, in who invented what. As a consumer, I'm interested in who gets it to market. Ford didn't invent the car, but he sure figured out how to be the most influential person in the car becoming part of American life.

BTW, Post-it Notes were originally a "failure" of an invention until someone saw the potential for a barely-sticky glue. Superglue was originally developed for medical uses. Silly Putty was a failed attempt at plastic explosives. Inventing something can be an act of genius or an accident. Finding a popular market application for that something and capitalizing on it requires smarts.
 
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syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
So, what you are saying is that Mitsubishi was too dumb to see the market application of their own product and the potential consumer demand. I have minimal interest, other than for Trivial Pursuit, in who invented what. As a consumer, I'm interested in who gets it to market. Ford didn't invent the car, but he sure figured out how to be the most influential person in the car becoming part of American life.
So what you are saying is you are a dumb consumer?

The point is Apple, the king patent troll, is full of **** and stifling competition/innovation in the market which is against consumer interests. Prior art is obvious and you will be harmed if Apple continues with their BS claims.

Companies are making competing products people want even more than Apple's and Apple working to limit consumer choice based on technology they copied from others.

As noted above the S3 is one of the best selling electronic devices ever, easily beating Apple. If Apple had their way nobody would get that choice for a device that better fits their needs.
 
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mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,134
7,680
Transylvania 90210
So what you are saying is you are a dumb consumer?

The point is Apple, the king patent troll, is full of **** and stifling competition/innovation in the market which is against consumer interests. Prior art is obvious and you will be harmed if Apple continues with their BS claims.

Companies are making competing products people want even more than Apple's and Apple working to limit consumer choice based on technology they copied from others.

As noted above the S3 is one of the best selling electronic devices ever, easily beating Apple. If Apple had their way nobody would get that choice for a device that better fits their needs.
Classy. I'm a consumer of products I want. If I could get a bargain combo for buying shark hooks and black nail polish together, I would. Just because you don't see the value in that doesn't mean it is dumb. My cash, my choice, my satisfaction.

However, if Samsung, a company in the business of selling stuff, had the golden product in their hands and didn't capitalize on it, but apple did, then Apple wins. If that gives Apple the leverage to make it difficult for them to enter the market, then that is the price they pay for missing their shot earlier. If something illegal is being done, then the courts will sort that out.

I have zero interest in the S3. I do have a smart phone. My first was a Blackberey, and I didn't like it. My second was a Moto Droid, and it was okay. I now have an iPhone 4s, and I'm satisfied with it. If I find myself in the market for a phone again, I'll deal with the market landscape then. I'm over my interest in evolving phone technology. It has become clothing fashion that needs to change every season. If Samsung had been faster to market, I might have cared. Now it is just diminishing marginal utility.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Classy. I'm a consumer of products I want. If I could get a bargain combo for buying shark hooks and black nail polish together, I would. Just because you don't see the value in that doesn't mean it is dumb. My cash, my choice, my satisfaction.
You still don't get. Apple does not have incentive for making cheaper and better devices if there is no competition. The iPad Mini knockoff wouldn't be launched next month if it wasn't for their competitors. Apples computers would cost thousands more and there would be little incentive to rapidly develop better technology.

 
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CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,862
4,160
Copenhagen, Denmark
So what you are saying is you are a dumb consumer?

The point is Apple, the king patent troll, is full of **** and stifling competition/innovation in the market which is against consumer interests. Prior art is obvious and you will be harmed if Apple continues with their BS claims.

Companies are making competing products people want even more than Apple's and Apple working to limit consumer choice based on technology they copied from others.

As noted above the S3 is one of the best selling electronic devices ever, easily beating Apple. If Apple had their way nobody would get that choice for a device that better fits their needs.
Sniped by kazlx

That is what all companies do I fail to see that Apple does anything differently? Sue other companies, trying to monopolize, stealing ideas etc. All business as usual the well since there was businesses. Also really to evaluate a business you need to look over a longer time frame. Its not long ago RIM and Nokia were kings and Apple was nothing and I see no reason why this will not change again with due to creative destruction. The new Firefox open source phone software could be one new driving force just as an example.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,134
7,680
Transylvania 90210
You still don't get. Apple does not have incentive for making cheaper and better devices if there is no competition. The iPad Mini knockoff wouldn't be launched next month if it was for their competitors. Apples computers would cost thousands more and there would be little incentive to rapidly develop better technology.


Duh. By that logic, in businesses with competition should be aimed at developing perfect, free products.

Apple has a distinct, desireable interface, that some consumers (like me) find more desireable. I'm willing to pay the premium pricing they charge, because amortized over the life of the product the additional cost is not significant to me. The Toyota Camry is great car, but I might be willing to pay more to get something else I want more, even if the paper list of features doesn't show a clear win. Some peole don't have that luxury, some people can afford a castle made of gold-plated iPhones. Differences make the world go round.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,862
4,160
Copenhagen, Denmark
I never said that. The point is geniuses don't copy others or stifle the development of new ideas.
A genius is someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of unprecedented insight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius

I think what Apple does applies to the definition. Maybe not the way you would like them to be original but you can't just start redefining a word just to make it fit your personal taste. That would make you seem a lot like Steve Jobs ;)
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
A genius is someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of unprecedented insight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius

I think what Apple does applies to the definition. Maybe not the way you would like them to be original but you can't just start redefining a word just to make it fit your personal taste. That would make you seem a lot like Steve Jobs ;)
Redefine, its right in your definition, genius. How many academic, artistic, legal, etc settings would call ripping off other people's work original or creative and requiring exceptional intellectual ability? Deceiving everyone and marketing your plagiarism as otherwise doesn't change reality and if you are exposed nobody is going to call it genius.

Also as Westy has pointed out again and again on RM these mainstream computing devices are commodity items, they clearly aren't cutting edge research and development work.
 
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mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,134
7,680
Transylvania 90210
Redefine, its right in your definition, genius. How many academic, artistic, legal, etc settings would call ripping off other people's work original or creative and requiring exceptional intellectual ability? Deceiving everyone and marketing your plagiarism as otherwise doesn't change reality and if you are exposed nobody is going to call it genius.

Also as Westy has pointed out again and again on RM these mainstream computing devices are commodity items, they clearly aren't cutting edge research and development work.
How do I rach this keeeed?
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,862
4,160
Copenhagen, Denmark
Redefine, its right in your definition, genius. How many academic, artistic, legal, etc settings would call ripping off other people's work original or creative and requiring exceptional intellectual ability? Deceiving everyone and marketing your plagiarism as otherwise doesn't change reality and if you are exposed nobody is going to call it genius.

Also as Westy has pointed out again and again on RM these mainstream computing devices are commodity items, they clearly aren't cutting edge research and development work.
You call it ripping off a lot of people would call it being inspired by. There is nothing in the definition of genius that does not allow ripping of/being inspired. Just look at the art world as you mention. You are also narrowly focusing on the product but if you want to evaluate Apple you have to look at the whole apple which have been a genius the share holder value created is way above industry average.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
You call it ripping off a lot of people would call it being inspired by. There is nothing in the definition of genius that does not allow ripping of/being inspired. Just look at the art world as you mention. You are also narrowly focusing on the product but if you want to evaluate Apple you have to look at the whole apple which have been a genius the share holder value created is way above industry average.
Excelling at selling yourself/marketing is not true genius unless your are a salesman or view mass consumption as a great achievement.

Do you find McDonalds(restaurants), Walmart(retail), Hero Cycles(bicycles), or Ikea(furniture) the pinnacle of their industries?
 
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CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,862
4,160
Copenhagen, Denmark
I think you understand of marketing and understanding the value of creating intangible value would improve if you see this. See the below Ted Talk and you will see how marketing can greatly benefit society its actually a really funny Talk too:


Also you now change what you are talking about and mention mass consumption and including more companies which is a totally different discussion. I think we both would agree on many problems created by mass consumption but to evaluate Apple you have to evaluate them based on how their success is measured which as a public traded company is share holder value like it or not.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
evaluate Apple you have to evaluate them based on how their success is measured which as a public traded company is share holder value like it or not.
That still has no correlation with genius. Truly genius/innovative technology is never mature enough for mainstream adoption and industry leading profits, in fact its the opposite most often.

Xerox PARC and ATT Bell Labs was filled with genius - their goals were research and development, not commercialization. Being great at commercialization is respectable but its not genius.

Same thing with DARPA and NASA:

http://wtfnasa.com/
 
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kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
You are apparently able to see all the motives, strengths and weaknesses of Apple. Clearly, you should start your own business to demonstrate how a tech company should operate.

If you think any of those damn companies doesn't do all the same things that Apple does, you are delusional. Nokia, Blackberry or any other tech name would do anything to be in Apple's position and defend what they have built.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,134
7,680
Transylvania 90210
Excelling at selling yourself/marketing is not true genius unless your are a salesman or view mass consumption as a great achievement.

Do you find McDonalds(restaurants), Walmart(retail), Hero Cycles(bicycles), or Ikea(furniture) the pinnacle of their industries?
Led Zep, Hendrix, Beatles = no genius.

Thom Yorke: "It's not who you steal from, it's how you steal."

A good product without distribution and market is worthless. You need to get it to the people.