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The genius of Apple

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
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1,957
Tustin, CA
That still has no correlation with genius. Truly genius/innovative technology is never mature enough for mainstream adoption and industry leading profits - in-fact its the opposite most often.
So RM is simply not mature enough for your genius?
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,128
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Transylvania 90210
That still has no correlation with genius. Truly genius/innovative technology is never mature enough for mainstream adoption and industry leading profits, in fact its the opposite most often.

Xerox PARC and ATT Bell Labs was filled with genius - their goals were research and development, not commercialization. Being great at commercialization is respectable but its not genius.

Same thing with DARPA and NASA:

http://wtfnasa.com/
so your definition of genius is fapping. just me and my genius being awesome, alone.

your narrow view of genius is like saying that only math or chemistry or physics can qualify for genius, and that painting and music can be good but never genius.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,861
4,159
Copenhagen, Denmark
That still has no correlation with genius. Truly genius/innovative technology is never mature enough for mainstream adoption and industry leading profits, in fact its the opposite most often.

Xerox PARC and ATT Bell Labs was filled with genius - their goals were research and development, not commercialization. Being great at commercialization is respectable but its not genius.

Same thing with DARPA and NASA:

http://wtfnasa.com/
Now you are just making up the definition again and limiting to genius to only be about technology. That said

tech·nol·o·gy (tk-nl-j)
n. pl. tech·nol·o·gies

a. The application of science, especially to industrial or commercial objectives.
b. The scientific method and material used to achieve a commercial or industrial objective

There is know way you now enough about Apple and how they developed their products so say they did have not been genius in regards to use of technology. I would say the likelihood of them not being it looking at their success many would have copied them more easily if that was the case.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
so your definition of genius is fapping. just me and my genius being awesome, alone.

your narrow view of genius is like saying that only math or chemistry or physics can qualify for genius, and that painting and music can be good but never genius.
I never said that, my examples were relevant to technology (Apple is a technology company) but mainstream/commercialized music and art is rarely among those considered to be the best.

Same goes for food, beer, or whatever else commodity crap most people buy.

Commodity products are not genius.
 
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CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,861
4,159
Copenhagen, Denmark
Tons of products started out not being a commodity and then became a commodity later on.

Apple is much more than a technology company.

So now mainstream is bad too.

I see no problem in admitting somebody is a genius just because you do not like it is a different issue. There were a lot of genius involved in the development of the atomic bomb but that sure does not make me a fan.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Tons of products started out not being a commodity and then became a commodity later on.

Apple is much more than a technology company.

So now mainstream is bad too.
Apple was first a PC and now a consumer electronics company, both of which are commodity goods, not leading-edge non-commercial research and development efforts.

A clear example of this is SIRI. SIRI was developed long ago by DARPA (and paid for by US taxpayers), it was commercialized by a company, and later bought and brought to the mainstream by Apple. SIRI was DARPA's genius work commercialized years later and pushed to the mainstream by Apple.

The mainstream demands polished commercialized products, not leading edge or even early adopter efforts.
 
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CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,861
4,159
Copenhagen, Denmark
You are just putting out random information which does not prove anything. Well except that you refuse to do anything but post random rants. As I wrote in above:
There is know way you now enough about Apple and how they developed their products so say they did have not been genius in regards to use of technology.

There was most likely a lot of technological genius involved in taking DARPA's work and commercializing it. I was for sure not plug and play.

Apple also sell music, movies etc. They own retail shops. They are much more than an electronics company.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,494
9,525
i wish i had started this thread....so i could delete it.

nothing against midge.....
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
There was most likely a lot of technological genius involved in taking DARPA's work and commercializing it. I was for sure not plug and play.
It was plug and play. The original app was commercialized by a SRI offshoot company and worked on most iOS products. After Apple bought them they intentionally removed support to drive sales of new products the only technical addition was greater integration with their own iOS software which is forbidden by app store rules - no significant technological changes were made. The current SIRI can be hacked back on to the older devices - Apple actually reduced its usefulness to boost sales.

Siri for iPhone 4S has been eight years in the making. Here’s a look at how she grew into her role as the intelligent personal assistant of Apple’s next-generation iPhone.

2003: DARPA awards SRI with a five-year contract to create an “enduring personalized cognitive assistant.” It would go on to invest $150 million in the project.

SRI calls the project CALO, short for Cognitive Agent that Learns and Organizes. The stated goal: “To create cognitive software systems, that is, systems that can reason, learn from experience, be told what to do, explain what they are doing, reflect on their experience, and respond robustly to surprise.”

Jan. 2008: Siri, one of the consumer-branded products inspired by the CALO project, spun out of SRI as its own company.

Oct. 13, 2008: Siri announces it has raised $8.5 million in Series A funding in a round led by Menlo Ventures and Morgenthaler Ventures.

Nov. 24, 2009: Siri announces it has raised $15.5 million in Series B funding in a round led by Menlo Ventures and Morgenthaler Ventures.

Feb. 4, 2010: Siri launches an app for iPhone. The app lets you to talk to your phone and have it find and make plans for you. The app improves with repeated usage and better understands your requests over time.

March 28, 2010: Apple acquires Siri for an undisclosed sum just two months after its public release. Some members of the Siri team move to Apple.

Oct. 4, 2011: Apple announces Siri, a virtual personal assistant for the iPhone 4S.

Apple also sell music, movies etc. They own retail shops. They are much more than an electronics company.
So what? Various electronic companies have become mass media distributors (Sony comes to mind) and have had retail stores (not on a national scale but at HQs and major cities like NYC or London).
 
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kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
The mainstream demands polished commercialized products, not leading edge or even early adopter efforts.
"Here, we want to sell you this product. It's genius and leading edge technology, but not polished yet. Please buy this thing that may or may not work." :rolleyes:
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
"Here, we want to sell you this product. It's genius and leading edge technology, but not polished yet. Please buy this thing that may or may not work." :rolleyes:
Early adopters don't have the same mix of needs as the mainstream.

Do world-class competitors and other leading professionals of their trade use leading edge products because they hold them back and put them at a disadvantage?

Do most people who drink Coors (or even Blue Moon if they like witbier) know or care there are better beers that don't fit their needs (cost, knowledge, availability, etc)?
 
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mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
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Transylvania 90210
the guy who invented the bridge is a genius. the person with the vision to put a bridge in a place that would be useful to a large number wishing to cross is just a scam artist; and god forbid he charge a toll to cross.

 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,861
4,159
Copenhagen, Denmark
It was plug and play. The original app was commercialized by a SRI offshoot company and worked on most iOS products. After Apple bought them they intentionally removed support to drive sales of new products the only technical addition was greater integration with their own iOS software which is forbidden by app store rules - no significant technological changes were made. The current SIRI can be hacked back on to the older devices - Apple actually reduced its usefulness to boost sales.






So what? Various electronic companies have become mass media distributors (Sony comes to mind) and have had retail stores (not on a national scale but at HQs and major cities like NYC or London).
Just because they bought it does not mean it was plug and play. Even Apple themself has admitted it needs to be better. It still is far from perfect.

You were the one who said it was a technology company I just gave you examples of other things they do. A strategy which has helped them do much more and than just sell hardware. This is always what has helped them become very sussesful and your and you fail to bring this in to your view of Apple. What I think is genius is Apple saw that it was not about the whole package not just the phone. It was taking the classic learnings of how VHS beat Betamax and applying that to another industry. They are taking a look at the bigger picture and maybe if can give it a try :)
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
Its not just a trainwreck, its MY train wreck. :)

i wish i had started this thread....so i could delete it.

nothing against midge.....
Some people are impressed with what something does while others are happier focusing on what something doesn't do, this thread is a great example.
 
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HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,628
5,443
Today I had my first play with an iPad that wasn't on display in a store, had a play then went to turn it off. After looking everywhere for a power button I have to ask for help, "just close the cover" I get told. Is a power button too mainstream for Apple?

They are an impressive bit of gear but I fail to see why people see the need to use them as cameras when out and about, they don't have cameras or phones?
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,128
7,679
Transylvania 90210
Today I had my first play with an iPad that wasn't on display in a store, had a play then went to turn it off. After looking everywhere for a power button I have to ask for help, "just close the cover" I get told. Is a power button too mainstream for Apple?

They are an impressive bit of gear but I fail to see why people see the need to use them as cameras when out and about, they don't have cameras or phones?
Forgive the blunt nature of this, but they make more money than god selling consumer electronics, so I'm gonna put my faith in their judgement about product design over yours. That said, there is a power button on my iPad.
 

blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,773
122
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
Today I had my first play with an iPad that wasn't on display in a store, had a play then went to turn it off. After looking everywhere for a power button I have to ask for help, "just close the cover" I get told. Is a power button too mainstream for Apple?

They are an impressive bit of gear but I fail to see why people see the need to use them as cameras when out and about, they don't have cameras or phones?
ok Abe Simpson.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,628
5,443
Forgive the blunt nature of this, but they make more money than god selling consumer electronics, so I'm gonna put my faith in their judgement about product design over yours. That said, there is a power button on my iPad.

Yeah I know they are doing well and the quality of the gear seems top notch but it seems I am too simple to use an Apple product, I didn't even know a person that slow existed, sucks that it's me:confused:

Wonder why I couldn't get the power button to do anything, I still can't work an ipod classic so there isn't much hope for me. Hoping I can work the Cowon player I have ordered ;)
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Forgive the blunt nature of this, but they make more money than god selling consumer electronics, so I'm gonna put my faith in their judgement about product design over yours. That said, there is a power button on my iPad.
So money earned on a certain product is a guarantee of quality? Put in Jon Peters into wikipedia (the movie producer) and then you can kindly edit your post.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
They do have a gun to your head and force you to buy the products.
No, I actually own a macbook. I just find the argument that if something sells in large quantity it proves it's quality extremely stupid. To be honest it would make my job much easier if quality meant sales.
 

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,377
156
Spreckels, CA
So money earned on a certain product is a guarantee of quality? Put in Jon Peters into wikipedia (the movie producer) and then you can kindly edit your post.
Hey! I liked Wild Wild West!

People can complain about apple all they want, but they seem to appeal to the masses with their tablet design more than any other company at the moment. For those that aren't the masses, there are other non-apple designs out there. At the end of the day, it's all just objects people use to amuse themselves. I never understood why people have such a huge emotional response to one way of browsing the web or installing apps vs. the other.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Hey! I liked Wild Wild West!

People can complain about apple all they want, but they seem to appeal to the masses with their tablet design more than any other company at the moment. For those that aren't the masses, there are other non-apple designs out there. At the end of the day, it's all just objects people use to amuse themselves. I never understood why people have such a huge emotional response to one way of browsing the web or installing apps vs. the other.
Read the stories of how he almost ruined Superman and Sandman. Seriously this man makes money but the only way his movies are at least partly enjoyable is that everone treats him like an idiot and buts heads with him.

As for mass appeal of the ipad - I think it's good marketing and name recognition. Many people call tablets ipads. I may be a bit pedantic about that because of what I do lately but there is a big differance between passive product marketability and active marketing. Ipad has more of the latter and lately apple is more about the brand than the product. Sales wise it will win them a lot, at least in the short term.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,128
7,679
Transylvania 90210
So money earned on a certain product is a guarantee of quality? Put in Jon Peters into wikipedia (the movie producer) and then you can kindly edit your post.
never said a guarantee of quality, just that if i had to put money on design features, i'd put it on apple over the hack.

if they had a one-time sales fluke like the pet rock or the snuggie, i'd be less inclined to say there is a liklelihood of quality. however, repeated awesome sales year after year might indicate a trend.

you can kindly put that in your pipe and smoke it.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,558
0
Duh, Austin
Different market sub-segments. Apple is going after a slightly different demographic with a different strategy. There is room for both, but I would venture that 80% of the Andriod customers would not consider and Iphone and 80% of the Iphone customers won't consider Android.

It has become religion at this point and that means that neither is really competing with each other, they are competing with their previous generation. I would actually say maybe 90%.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,128
7,679
Transylvania 90210

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
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mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,128
7,679
Transylvania 90210
never said a guarantee of quality, just that if i had to put money on design features, i'd put it on apple over the hack.

if they had a one-time sales fluke like the pet rock or the snuggie, i'd be less inclined to say there is a liklelihood of quality. however, repeated awesome sales year after year might indicate a trend.

you can kindly put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Let me Poopdeck repost this, since you missed it. Never said "best" but did say "awesome." Didn't say "just moved to the top this year" but did say "trend." in fact I discounted the one-time sales factor as being not of particular value. Well, time will tell if the Galaxy S3, or S4 or S5 can make a name for itself.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Let me Poopdeck repost this, since you missed it. Never said "best" but did say "awesome." Didn't say "just moved to the top this year" but did say "trend." in fact I discounted the one-time sales factor as being not of particular value. Well, time will tell if the Galaxy S3, or S4 or S5 can make a name for itself.
The trend is already there:

The two companies [Samsung and Apple] trade top spots for the fourth quarter in a row.
Samsung has announced that it has sold 20 million of its Galaxy S2 smartphone in 10 months.

The Korean company took three months to ship five million units and five months to reach the 10 million mark, which means that Samsung is still keeping the momentum.

In comparison, the Samsung Galaxy S took seven months to reach the 10 million sale mark and the latest sale update pegged it at 22 million units sold globally.
And Nokia's streak has been the longest by far but their current products are no longer competitive.

Samsung is happy if they are first or second place - its all good for them:

http://www.statesman.com/business/technology/analysts-samsungs-austin-upgrades-will-keep-it-near-2439509.html
 
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HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,628
5,443
After reading your post I went looking for the power button; it's on the side similar to cell phone.
Yeah I know I'm an idiot, guess I didn't hold every button for three seconds.

My media player arrived today, it's a Cowon Z2, why these guys don't have more market share really confoozes me. Touchscreen(pretty good one) Wi-Fi, Micro SD card slot, nice external speaker, micro HDMI port, micro USB, plays FLAC, port cover turns in to a stand for video watching an the biggie, it has hard power, volume, pause and skip buttons that work with the screen off.

Am I the only person that values being able to skip tracks without having to remove it from your pocket or unlocking the screen? Sure it looks like you are having a bat with bike gloves on when skipping tracks but I'm not cool enough to have an iPod on a shoulder strap so it will have to do.

The user interface on iPods is nice but that is really their only good feature and they still dominate the market, people are stupid!