[dan-o]

Sorry I don't get you. Is the 99 vs 199$ not influencing the plan you can get? In here it does.

Here in the US, the cost of the plan is independent of the iphone model used.
In my experience on AT&T at least.

 

[kazlx]

I'm not sure at which one of us you are angry at.



4S has a better camera. It's useful for me. Not it's not for food photos. 4 is good enough for that. Still yeah if it's only 100$ difference than why not go for the 5. Still I'd wait for the new options from the competition.

One more question. Would you get a better plan with other "cheaper" phones (or no phone) or are they just free like the 4? Getting an older phone gives you MUCH better plans here.

You're not the one that tries to validate every post with some article.

For the most part, most similar phones in the US cost basically the same. You can either get an older version phone for free or a new version for $200 give or take. The plans are all the same. I have had my same 'plan' for years now because I am grandfathered in for unlimited data by AT&T. As long as they don't screw me over on that, I probably won't change. As stuff keeps getting faster/bigger, having an unlimited data plan becomes more valuable to me.

 

[bean]

You're not the one that tries to validate every post with some article.

For the most part, most similar phones in the US cost basically the same. You can either get an older version phone for free or a new version for $200 give or take. The plans are all the same. I have had my same 'plan' for years now because I am grandfathered in for unlimited data by AT&T. As long as they don't screw me over on that, I probably won't change. As stuff keeps getting faster/bigger, having an unlimited data plan becomes more valuable to me.

The one exception to this is T-Mobile. They have two sets of plans - one group of them is more expensive and gets you a discounted or free phone, the other has less expensive plans, but requires that you already have a phone that has been paid for.

 

[syadasti]

you didnt answer my question. again
IOS is running on a handful of skus and sold 400million units. android is running on countless sku's and sold 100million more. big deal

Nokia was riding pretty high on a few skus for longer (#1 vendor from 2004-2011) than Apple has existed in the cellular market. Symbian is basically dead now and there is little indication Nokia has stopped their freefall. Similarly RIM dominated corporate hardware, they are nothing now. It happens.

 

[norbar]

You're not the one that tries to validate every post with some article.

For the most part, most similar phones in the US cost basically the same. You can either get an older version phone for free or a new version for $200 give or take. The plans are all the same. I have had my same 'plan' for years now because I am grandfathered in for unlimited data by AT&T. As long as they don't screw me over on that, I probably won't change. As stuff keeps getting faster/bigger, having an unlimited data plan becomes more valuable to me.

Wow, I found one thing that may be financialy better in Poland. That's surprising. Than yeah I'd pay extra 100$ for a 5. Though I'd still wait for 920 reviews. If the camera is better I'd go for it or wait for HTC conference. Though yeah if you look at it like that it kinda makes sense. The appstore for the iphone is still better than the android store.

 

[norbar]

Nokia was riding pretty high on a few skus for longer than Apple has existed in the cellular market. Symbian is basically dead and there is little indication Nokia has stopped their freefall. Similarly RIM dominated corporate hardware, they are nothing now. It happens.

That's not true. After the 920 premiere their stock went up by a significant margin. At least the stock market has regained some trust in them.

 

[kazlx]

Wow, I found one thing that may be financialy better in Poland. That's surprising. Than yeah I'd pay extra 100$ for a 5. Though I'd still wait for 920 reviews. If the camera is better I'd go for it or wait for HTC conference. Though yeah if you look at it like that it kinda makes sense. The appstore for the iphone is still better than the android store.

If you're curious how it works here. My zip is 92867 if you want to look at the plans. You basically buy a minutes plan, then add a data plan, both based on what you plan on using each month. They charge you if you go over on either. Some other companies have unlimited everything for one price or other promos, but that's the generality of how the big carriers work.

http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/plans/individualplans.html

 

[syadasti]

That's not true. After the 920 premiere their stock went up by a significant margin. At least the stock market has regained some trust in them.

Modern Windows phones have not been a success so far. Windows Mobile has yet to gain back any significant momentum and they lost quite a bit by abandoning those that bought the last generation. Its doomed barring any huge change. Even I wouldn't hesitate to take a 4S over a 920 - a unique hardware or OS are nothing without good applications, support, large userbase etc:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows-phone/20982/new-market-share-figures-show-windows-phone-still-cant-gain-traction

IDC is out with figures for worlwide smarphone sales in the second quarter, and it shows Windows Phone still stuck in idle, with only a 3.5% market share of the smartphone market, trailing not just Android and iOS, but Blackberry and Symbian as well. With the new iPhone just announced, the news might not get better for Microsoft.

The IDC report says that 5.4 million Windows Phone devices were sold in the quarter, for a 3.5% market share, up from 2.3% a year previously.

Android, meanwhile had 104.8 million units sold, for a 68.1% market share, up from 46.9% a year previous. There were 26 million iPhones sold, for a 16.9%, down from 18.8% a year previous. 7.4 million Blackberries were sold, for a 4.8% share, down from 11.5% a year earlier. And 6.8 million Symbian devices were sold, for a 4.4% market share, down from 16.9 percent a year previous
....
Still, at some point, the market share figures for Windows Phone have to move or the platform will fail. Success can't stay endlessly around the corner. With the upcoming Windows 8 launch, new line of Windows 8 Phones, carrier and manufacturer support, and likely big marketing push, this may well be the last chance for Windows Phone. If all that can't eat into Android and iOS market share, the platform likely will never succeed.

 

[norbar]

If you're curious how it works here. My zip is 92867 if you want to look at the plans. You basically buy a minutes plan, then add a data plan, both based on what you plan on using each month. They charge you if you go over on either. Some other companies have unlimited everything for one price or other promos, but that's the generality of how the big carriers work.

http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/plans/individualplans.html

Thanks. With iphone it's hard to compare. In here the iphone plan is 15$ less (comparable plan) but the phone is more expensive (200$ minimum for 4S but it's the old pricing) but without a phone our prices are way better.Though that's new and even 1 year ago our offers were much much worse.

Modern Windows phones have not been a success so far. Windows Mobile has yet to gain back any significant momentum and they lost quite a bit by abandoning those that bought the last generation. Its doomed barring any huge change. Even I would take a 4S over a 920 - a unique hardware or OS are nothing without good applications, support, large userbase etc:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows-phone/20982/new-market-share-figures-show-windows-phone-still-cant-gain-traction

Support comes from the hardware and the numbers will be good enough anyway. Also nerds seem to love WM so I doubt it will be any different with the new one and that's all the userbase you need. Apps are useful but if the hardware is much better I don't need all of them as long as I've got evernote, some sports tracker, flac player and the few big ones plus maybe ms office equivalent.

 

[bean]

Support comes from the hardware and the numbers will be good enough anyway. Also nerds seem to love WM so I doubt it will be any different with the new one and that's all the userbase you need. Apps are useful but if the hardware is much better I don't need all of them as long as I've got evernote, some sports tracker, flac player and the few big ones plus maybe ms office equivalent.

That may work for you, but the rest of the population, that they need to win over, wants more.

 

[syadasti]

That may work for you, but the rest of the population, that they need to win over, wants more.

That and Nokia's investors - its not a charity or even an open source movement (and how many WebOS users are still going strong with that nice but irrelevant OS). Nokia hasn't been shutting down factories for nothing...

 

[norbar]

That may work for you, but the rest of the population, that they need to win over, wants more.

Yeah but lets talk about product not marketability. I know they have the problem with that part but that doesn't kill claims it may be a good phone the same way movies that don't make avatar money can also be good


Also the whole wireless speaker and charging thing is a huge marketing gizmo for the kids. Nokia has been shutting down factories before. Unless they screw up marketing big they should have their first semi successful phone. Maybe not a bona fide hit because their OS is still new and you have to wait before it becomes more popular but it's a start.

 

[syadasti]

These are commodity products, not art or vintage cars. Nobody cares that WebOS was nice, its now irrelevant even as an open source option endorsed by the current owners (HP).

 

[norbar]

These are commodity products, not art or vintage cars. Nobody cares that WebOS was nice, its now irrelevant even as an open source option endorsed by the current owners (HP).

Why do you talk about web OS? I'm speaking about the current phone.

 

[HardtailHack]

Windows is slowly increasing sales here in Australia and it seems there may be a quadcore Windows phone in the works, Fujitsu will be selling under the Toshiba brand in the US as they realised no one knows no one is familiar with their brand.
http://www.stuff.tv/news/phone/rumour-mill/windows-phone-8-quad-core-handsets-leaked
They already have a wireless charging quad core waterproof ICS phone on the market.

The new iPhone looks quite nice but what ratio is the screen, it's not 16/9 is it?

 

[norbar]

http://youtu.be/rdIWKytq_q4

 

[bizutch]

My Windows Mobile 7 keeps my brain from exploding. It's really, really easy to use. Only real negative right now is that apparently them and Google Mobile Apps are at some sort of odds. And why some sites would short change themselves by not making apps for it is beyong me.

I used my mom's Android and couldn't make sense of it. She played with mine for 5 minutes and figured out everything. That's saying....ALOT.

Downsides are - no Strava app & no Google apps. Pandora doesn't make an app but there is one called MetroRadio (hey heh!) that somehow makes Pandora work on my phone flawless, so I've got all I want. And as I said in another thread, I can still use Strava with it using any other .gpx app on it. Just upload the file to my Strava account on the laptop.

The Google Apps thing isn't a big deal b/c their mobile web sites are just as easy as using an App.

 

[Udi]

+

=

I'm gonna sit outside the apple store with a rolling pin and get rich!

 

[mandown]

 

[binary visions]

The Google Apps thing isn't a big deal b/c their mobile web sites are just as easy as using an App.

No. They are not.

You're either deluding yourself, or you simply haven't used their apps.



So, it's been two days and nobody has came in talking about their iPhone 5?

I will say it's a beautiful piece of hardware. I mean, all of the software and features are just playing catchup, but the hardware is drool-inducing.

 

[Kevin]

I would normally have bought it at the end of my contract next month, but im still so happy with my 4s that I dont see the need for an upgrade just yet.
Especially since theres nothing mindblowing about the 5...
Maybe when apps or the latest os start to run like crap but untill then ill just keep the money in my pocket.
Leaving for Panama tomorrow for at least three months so it wont do me much good there anyway

 

[syadasti]

Don't forget hardware is catchup in several ways though - larger 16:9 screen, modern processor (the Qualcomm S4 released in phones about 4-6 months ago offers similar performance), more competitive camera system, and LTE support (actually in CDMA LTE versions they are still inferior - their special radio design they talked about in the unveil is half-assed - it offers no simultaneous voice and data as even the first CDMA LTE phone on the market had a year and half ago on the HTC Thunderbolt)

The A6′s CPU is apparently twice as fast as the A5 — but considering the A5 is two years old, that isn’t saying much. The Snapdragon S4, which is already twice as fast as the A5, has been on the market for a while — and the Cortex-A15 Exynos 5, which should be even faster, is arriving soon.

With this in mind, remember that Apple itself is hyper-aware of the iPhone 5′s technological mediocrity. Apple knows that it no longer competes with other smartphones in terms of screen resolution or processor performance — but it also knows that it still has, undoubtedly, the best industrial design division and supply chain in the market, possibly the world. This is why Apple’s iPhone 5 unveil quickly glossed over its features and focused almost entirely on its immaculately conceived design.

 

[?????]

Don't forget hardware is catchup in several ways though - larger 16:9 screen, modern processor (the Qualcomm S4 released in phones about 4-6 months ago offers similar performance), more competitive camera system, and LTE support (actually in CDMA LTE versions they are still inferior - their special radio design they talked about in the unveil is half-assed - it offers no simultaneous voice and data as even the first CDMA LTE phone on the market had a year and half ago on the HTC Thunderbolt)

The hardware is playing catch up in the same way that a Porsche Panamera is playing catch up to a Camry... yes the Porsche now has more doors.

 

[syadasti]

The hardware is playing catch up in the same way that a Porsche Panamera is playing catch up to a Camry... yes the Porsche now has more doors.

Not even close. 4 month old Samsung S3 vs iPhone 5 - Apple is playing catchup:

Similarities:
-The international S3 and iPhone 5 both have processors sourced from Samsung with similar performance (The A6 is a Samsung sourced processor made in Austin, TX)
-Qualcomm LTE baseband modem in both the US S3 and iPhone5
-Broadcom BCM4334 dual band wifi chip in both
-Both use Skyworks amplifiers
-Both have RTR8600 cellular/GPS RF transceivers
-Both have the same Sony BSI camera sensor (also shared with the 4S)

Differences:
-The Qualcomm LTE is better in the US Samsung S3 as its integrated into the 28nm S4 processor rather than being a separate Qualcomm modem chipset in the iPhone 5
-The S3 has a larger battery (3 hours longer talk-time than the iPhone 5 if you actually use your smartphone to make phone calls)
-Twice the RAM of either the iPhone 5 or the international S3 in the US S3
-A larger OLED display that cost more than the smaller not quite 16:9 LCD panel in the iPhone 5
-A higher quality Wolfson audio chipset in the international S3 (rather than Cirrus in the iPhone 5 and Qualcomm in the US S3)
-Samsung has better camera system to back it up (as per Woz of Apple who owns and uses both the S3 and the 4S).
-The S3 supports simultaneous voice and data (SVDO) on CDMA (Verizon/Sprint) - the iPhone 4/4S/5 doesn't. Verizon by far has the best LTE network in the US so its a big deal if you are buying an LTE phone from anyone.
-The S3 has a microSD slot - you need more space - $55 for a high-speed 64 GB card in addition to your stock 16/32/64GB - buy as many as you want. On the iPhone you just better hope you don't run out of space or you live someplace with great LTE coverage to slowly offload content to the cloud while you waste your data quota - if you are riding or on vacation in the boonies you are screwed. Same goes for the swappable battery in the S3 vs non-user accessible in Iphone 5...

 

[DaveW]

Just out of curiosity Josh, how close must the product launches be time wise before you'd say that it's not a case of "Playing catchup"?

To me given the lead time to develop a new highly complex bit of equipment, 4 months is not much at all.
The logisitics of having millions of phones ready to go worldwide simultaneously would be a total nightmare.
Hell even orchestrating the world wide marketing campaign could suck up that much time!
And to launch with out a comprehensive marketing/promotion plan is instant product death these days.

 

[syadasti]

Just out of curiosity Josh, how close must the product launches be time wise before you'd say that it's not a case of "Playing catchup"?

Its catchup, Samsung did it quarter sooner at a similar scale with similar technology which is a huge lead for some of the largest electronic devices launches ever. On a more broad scale both the OS as BV mentioned and the hardware is clearly catchup (Samsung was not first I was just using them as an example for a highly comparable level of technology).

Hardware:
-720p 16:9 displays have been on smartphones for at least a year now and 4" and larger panels for much longer than that
-LTE and SVDO smartphones have been available for over 1.5 years
-Auto stitching panoramic smartphone photography for over 3 years
-NFC is another though not very relevant in most markets yet

First day sales data is available for both the Samsung S3 and the iPhone 5:

May 29th Samsung S3 - 3 million
Sept 14th iPhone 5 - 2 million

Total Samsung S3 preorders 9M
Total iPhone 5 preorders - not yet available.

You are right though about the logistics - both brands had supply problems at launch.

The US HTC One X also with the Qualcomm S4 processor (which has better feeling materials than the S3 and a better camera lens/system than either the iPhone or the S3) came to market a month earlier than that even in April 2012...

 

[norbar]

Yeah but HTC Sense is ****ty and they tend to upgrade you one time too many. Now I need to downgrade or change because the new sense 3.0 is not for single core processors.

 

[syadasti]

Yeah but HTC Sense is ****ty and they tend to upgrade you one time too many. Now I need to downgrade or change because the new sense 3.0 is not for single core processors.

Install a vanilla ROM then. Just like you have to jailbreak an iPhone to do basic things you should be able to change yourself (like the default browser for example), if you don't like it you still have options. I don't like any third-party add-on UI options either.

 

[eric strt6]

and the workers at Foxcon Apples Mfg. in cChina are just so happy and contented these days
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/23/14049889-report-riots-break-out-at-foxconn-factory-in-china?lite

 

[bean]

I got mine on Friday. It's better in every way I can tell from the iPhone 4 that it replaced, and it's not going to change my life.

 

[norbar]

Install a vanilla ROM then. Just like you have to jailbreak an iPhone to do basic things you should be able to change yourself (like the default browser for example), if you don't like it you still have options. I don't like any third-party add-on UI options either.

I don't suggest apple ios is better. I prefer samsung add on because even if it is sometimes less functional they don't update your phone when it can't handle it. I really need to instal cyanogen. I'm just too lazy to do it.

 

[HardtailHack]

and the workers at Foxcon Apples Mfg. in cChina are just so happy and contented these days
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/23/14049889-report-riots-break-out-at-foxconn-factory-in-china?lite

Good on them.
A journo managed to get a job on the assembly line.
http://www.cultofmac.com/189877/chinese-reporter-slips-inside-the-foxconn-iphone-5-assembly-sweatshop/

 

[binary visions]

The hardware is playing catch up in the same way that a Porsche Panamera is playing catch up to a Camry... yes the Porsche now has more doors.

Only an fanboy would be able to make such a comparison.

Okay, fine, so let's go with that (even though the GS3 is a leading edge smartphone, so it's more like comparing a Porsche to a BMW). This isn't a number-of-cupholders comparison. Given the pace of car technology vs. smartphone technology, it's like saying the car market has had stability control, anti-lock brakes, airbags and in-dash navigation for ten years while the Porsche just added it... and now a large segment of the car market is saying, "wow! Look at these incredible new features! Best car ever!"

Just out of curiosity Josh, how close must the product launches be time wise before you'd say that it's not a case of "Playing catchup"?

To me given the lead time to develop a new highly complex bit of equipment, 4 months is not much at all.

Problem is, most of these features weren't 4 months delayed. They're a year, two years, three years after the market had them. Moreover - and more concerning for people who have followed or like Apple - there is literally nothing innovative about the new phone.

I use "innovative" loosely - Apple has never been a truly innovative company. What they have done, though, is take niche or little-adopted or little-known technologies, identified which ones serve a customer need, and brought them to market in a highly polished, mass-adopted platform.

The original iPhone was innovative, in that respect. The iPhone 3G brought 3G data to a widely adopted platform when high speed data and smartphones in general were not ubiquitous. The 3GS gets a pass as a minor update because smartphones were still coming into their own, and adding substantial processing speed was a fairly novel feature. The iPhone 4 at least brought the high resolution display to the table, along with a pretty monster graphics processor.

The 4S? Nit-picky updates. Siri was an attempt, but the fact is that voice recognition had been on Android for years and Siri was/is pretty buggy, so there was no real gain there. Other than Siri, though, the 4S brought nothing to the table that wasn't already established in a giant and fast-paced cell phone market.

The 5 is the same way. A 4" screen? Okay, welcome to 3 years ago. Turn-by-turn directions (which, incidentally, appear to be executed badly)? Same thing. LTE? Nice camera? All widely adopted by the market already.

All of this smells of deja vu - Apple has been down this path before, where they stagnated. Where's the NFC? That's an emerging technology that Apple could have done something cool with. Where's the more highly integrated voice - like voice typing? Where's... something that the market hasn't seen? Passport is kinda cool but it appears pretty limited and rough right now.

 

[stevew]

apple...they stole a fvcking clock.

 

[MMike]

So how much of the stagnation is due to Steve Jobs no longer being around?

 

[MMike]

This commercial is pretty well done

 

[syadasti]

So how much of the stagnation is due to Steve Jobs no longer being around?

Jobs said large screen phones and 7" tablets wouldn't succeed. Both are popular and Apple is jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[dump]

Since we're talking samsung, I'll throw my 2 cents in.

Don't have an iphone, but I do have a google/samsung galaxy nexus phone that I use for work/testing ( http://www.google.com/nexus/#/galaxy ).

Initial impression was pretty positive. It's big, it's somewhat light and feels like plastic. It's a joy to browse on, moreso than iOS, but there is no way in hell I'm going to carry that in my pocket. The big screen sucks for that. Battery life is also pretty mediocre to bad. The first app I tried to download from Play failed, tried again - same thing. Haven't bothered to try again.

 

[norbar]

Jobs said large screen phones and 7" tablets wouldn't succeed. Both are popular and Apple is jumping on the bandwagon.

He wasn't also so fond of tablet idea. He is allowed to change his mind

 

[mandown]

i'll just leave this right here