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The Hardtail 'Frames and Geometry' thread

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
10,477
355
Hypernormality
OK, After all the discussion of which frame is most like this or that and lots of questions about what'smost like this or that, I thought it'd be really nice to have a thread with details of all the frame geometries and details of hardtails, BMXs and cruisers.

Basically the idea of the thread is this:

To collect posts each containing an image and geometry of as many hardtail Dirtjump, 4X, BMX, cruiser, freeride and street frames as possible.

People who ride these sort of bikes are more likely than not to change out parts and forks and everything on their bikes so tyhe most useful thing for everyone is details about the frames themselves. Please ignore details about components unless they are frame specific in some way.

Each post should contain a nice side-on image of the frame or complete bike in question along with the following basic details about the frame. Head angle, top tube length and chainstay length and MSRP as a basic minimum please, (all dimensions in inches please - use google to convert) and any other details would be great, especially frame weight.

I'll trawl the net when I have the time and inclination and add to this, but please post frames you like or own with the details of geometry. Remeber it's kinda pointless to post without the geometry and a nice square straight side-on image of the frame so people can see what the angles really look like.

If you have more details about a frame already posted, please PM the original poster of the frame in question and ask them to edit their original post to add more detail rather than reposting it!

It'd be great if a Mod for this forum could make this sticky, please!

Post away!
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
10,477
355
Hypernormality
2005 S+M 24" Cruiser Frame - The RV

Top Tube Lengths: 21.5"
BB Height: 12"
Chainstay Range: 15.5" - 16.375"
Head Angle: 73 degrees
Seat Angle: 70.5 degrees
Weight: 5 Pounds 4 Ounces (2380 Grams)
Headtube: Integrated
Bottom Bracket: Euro

Crappy image:



 

Stoked

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2004
1,813
1
LI, NY
bmw park bike

70 degree head angle, 71 degree seat angle
22.125” top tube length
15.25” – 16” chainstay length
13.5” BB height, 68mm BMX BB shell

 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,157
1
SB


Evil DOC, regular

Headtube angle
68 with 4" fork

Headtube length
4.5"

Headtube size
1 1/8"

BB height 24" wheels
12"

BB height 26" wheels
13"

BB shell
68mm

Chainstay length
15.75 - 16.4"

Toptube length
23.15" Reg.

Toptube length
24.15" Long

Seattube angle
70

Seat Tube Length
15.25"

Seat Post size
31.6mm

Front derailleur
34.9mm

Weight
6.1 lbs

*These numbers don't look good on paper but w/ a 3" fork it steepens it out and lowers the BB so it rides really nice.

EDIT: Also, Evil must have been high when they measured the TT. Go for the Reg for DJ/street or the Long if you ride trails/are an ogre.

EDIT # 2: $450 MSRP but can be had for $400 shipped from online retailers.
 

14psisupra

Chimp
Jan 4, 2006
39
0
huffman, tx
ironhorse porter pro

Frame size: 14"
Actual Top Tube: 22"
Effective Top Tube: 23"
Head Angle: 70 degrees
Seat Angle: 73 degrees
Chain Stay Length: 16.1"
Wheel Base: 41.8"

 

bjanga

Turbo Monkey
Dec 25, 2004
1,356
0
San Diego
I think it may also be useful if we could include a link to the company's website, and (if you have personal experience with this) if full seat extension for climbing is possible.

First off, this is pretty cool and/or off-topic:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113828&highlight=burly+hardtails

*****The voodoo shango:





http://www.voodoocycles.net/shango.htm

see page 206 / post 3077 in the burly hardtail thread (DH forum) for offtheedge's shango:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10689&page=206

unrealcycles has the shango for cheap:
http://www.unrealcycles.com/item.php?view=58

*****The voodoo bakka:



http://www.voodoocycles.net/bakka.htm

BOTH of these voodoo frames have cool sliding vertical dropout systems to allow for a geared or singlespeed disc setup.





*****Woodman d-ml and d-s frames:







http://www.woodmancomponents.com/products/framesets/d-ml.html

http://www.unrealcycles.com/catalog.php?cat=Frames&com=Woodman







I have not ridden any of these bikes in this post.
 

bjanga

Turbo Monkey
Dec 25, 2004
1,356
0
San Diego
Bicyclist said:
Evil must have been high when they measured the TT.
Well, an effective top tube measurement is going to be longer than the actual TT measurement, because the top tube effectively gets longer as the seatpost is extended.
 

mistaare

Chimp
Dec 22, 2005
48
0
ABOUT TIME. :-)

i just spend months gathering this info. you guys are forgeting the EVIL sovereign.

with 100mm fork
headtube - 70
BB - 12.7
chainstay - 15.5-17"
wheelbase - 40.7"
toptube reg. - 23.16" (long - 24.16")
seattube - 71
6.1 lb's
 

dooktruck

Chimp
Mar 16, 2006
18
0
austin, texas
Size (Measured From Center Of Bottom Bracket To Top Of Seat Tube) 14.5" 16.5"
Recommended Fork Length 80-100mm 80-100mm
Head Angle 69 69
Headset 1 1/8 1 1/8
Seat Angle 71 71
Seatpost Size 27.2mm 27.2mm
Top Tube Length Measured Center To Center 21.3" 22.4"
Wheelbase 1043mm 1075mm
Chainstay Length 419mm 419mm
Bottom Bracket Width 73mm 73mm
Bottom Bracket Height 12.5" 12.5"
Disc Brake Mount Spacing 51mm IS 51mm IS
Rear Axle Spacing 135mm 135mm
Rear Axle Diameter 10mm 10mm
Maximum Tire Clearance 2.5+ 2.5+
Standover At Midsection Of Top Tube And Forward Of Seat Tube 27" 25" 29" 27"
Weight 4lbs 13oz 5lbs
 

W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,284
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
fiddy_ryder said:
my T.O.P. is on its way!
Keep the thread on subject, B! Stoked for you.

GEOMETRY (483.6mm axle-crown)
Regular Long
Top Tube (Effective) 22.12" 23.75"
Top Tube (Actual) 21.5" 23.0"
Seat Tube (center to top) 13" 13"
Head Tube Angle 69° 69°
Seat Tube Angle 70° 70°
ChainStay Length 16.1" - 17.0" 16.1" - 17.0"
Bottom Bracket Height 12.7" 12.7"
Wheelbase 41" - 41.9" 42.7" - 43.6"
Head Tube Length 4.725" 4.725"
Max Rear Tire Clearance 26" x 2.7" 26" x 2.7"
Rear Hub Spacing 135mm 135mm
Rear Dropout Axle Size 10mm 10mm
Head Tube 1.125" 1.125"
BB Shell Width 73mm 73mm


 

CreeP

Monkey
Mar 8, 2002
695
0
montreal bitch
well, the most important measurements to me -as a bit of a bike designer myself- are: front center, cs length, bb-centertop of headtube, and the angle of that line, and of course head angle and bb height. Those weird ones i just mentioned really tell you how the bike will fit. TT length really is bs, especially since there are so many variations in HA and STA. If you have a very upright style and want some cockpit room forward you could easily end up with the wrong feel, and a seat so far from your knees, if you go solely by toptube length simply because the seattube angle has such an effect on tt length.

So for my Peyto: 420mm fork
front center: 24"
bb-ctht 650mm
400mm cs 388 slammed
actual tt 21.5
bb height 320mm
HA: 72
SA: 73
(a similar Peyto these days will cost you between 900 and 1400 depending on joining method and tube selection and extra features)


ride report -um Awesome? it's a bit of a cliché now but it feels like a bmx, i chalk that up to the two piece bar, bmx stem and thick guage straight leg fork though mostly. The frame is pretty light too, at just under 5lbs. This is actually kind of useless as Paul doesn't really even have a starting point geometry, he does a geometry with you from scratch; which means if you don't get the right geometry it's pretty much your fault for not helping him understand your needs.
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
4,906
2,441
Yakistan


Simple Bike co. '509' frame with optional horizontal dropouts.

h/t 69*
s/t 70*
c/s 15.25"
top tube long frame 22.75"
stand 14.5"

frame price- $600.00
--------------------

Changleen said:
bjanga said:
How does the disc brake work out with the horizontal drops? Is the brake mount adjustable?
There is a considerable range of motion for the wheel you can get away with on a fixed disk mount, I guess about 1.5", after which the rotor starts to rub on the housing of the caliper.

With most brakes however, this can be got around with a little filling. I can move my wheel on my Revell through nearly the entire range of the horizontal dropout by removing about 1mm of material from my XT caliper.

On the simple it looks like the range is pretty short (very sexy looking bike by the way) so it's probably all good.
--------------------------
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
4,906
2,441
Yakistan
bjanga said:
How does the disc brake work out with the horizontal drops? Is the brake mount adjustable?
considering this was the first 509 frame with horizontals, i have had zero issues. The mounts are not adjustable. I just throw my wheel in, tension the chain, and tighten it down. Been riding this frame for 3 months and its been working flawless
 
May 12, 2005
977
0
roanoke va
Top tube- 22.6
chainstays- 16.5
BB height- 12
HA- 72? (i think this is with a ridged fork)
wheel base- 41.4
STA- 70

edit: damn apples, i can't post a foto!
 

scurban

Turbo Monkey
Jul 11, 2004
1,052
0
SC
Tonic Fall Guy
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/774198/

The Fall Guy is designed around 24" wheels, a 14mm axle BMX hub, and a euro bottom bracket. It is important to note the Fall Guy handles correctly with a Manitou Sherman or Stance 80mm fork. These forks feature a significantly lower axle to crown measurement (455mm) compared to even the 24" specific Marzocchi (468mm). We strongly recommend riding the bike with one of these forks, or something equally low. Minimum chain stay length is 14.75". Short. Low bars and a 71 head tube angle keep enough weight over the front wheel for balance and BMX like leverage on the bike. Size 10 shoes with 175mm cranks have plenty of x-up and bar spin clearance with the front wheel.
Every detail on the Fall Guy was sweated so that it would be sufficiently strong, surprisingly light, and especially clean looking. We were tempted to simply use BMX style drop-outs and tube diameters, but this approach wouldn’t have satisfied us, as we knew there was room for improvement. You will find the 1" chainstay and seatstay tubing results in a very stiff rear triangle and a firm feel at the brake lever. Each drop-out consists of two laser-cut parts which form an extremely strong and clean looking joint. The unique laser-cut and formed chainstay yoke ties the chain stays together and provides ample tire clearance in a traditionally tight area. The Fall Guy’s thin, laser-cut top and down tube gussets are pleasing to look at, and strengthen this critical area while minimizing stress concentrations.
Do you require 24/26 compatibility, disc brakes, huge gussets, a derailleur, a chain guide and 3-7" fork geometry? Plenty of great bikes like this.
However, when all you need for a good time is a clean looking bike with dialed geometry and reliable components, consider the Fall Guy.


Specs (with 80mm Manitou Sherman)


Material: Full Aircraft Certified 4130 cro-moly.


HT angle: 71 (steep enough to get some weight over the front wheel,slack enough for confidence.)


ST angle: 71 (Perfect for grabbing seat with knees.)


CS length (front of drop-outs): 14.75"


TT length: along the TT, 21.9" BMX way to size the bike, and as absolutely irrelevant as any other way these bikes are measured. You’ll get used to it. I’m 6' tall and love it.


BB Height: 12.375" with Kenda K-Rad 2.3's. Curious name, bitchin’ tire. DMR Moto is hot too.


Seat post size: 26.8.


Rear hub requirements: Any 14mm, BMX hub will work. LSD, or conventional.


Brakes: V-brake only.


BB: 68mm Euro.

Price: $550...... and worth every Penny!
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,944
0
MV
Bicyclist said:
EDIT: Also, Evil must have been high when they measured the TT. Go for the Reg for DJ/street or the Long if you ride trails/are an ogre.
The top tube lengths are virtual. Measured from the center of the head tube to the seat tube axis parallel to the ground....
 

jacksonpt

Turbo Monkey
Jul 22, 2002
6,762
0
Vestal, NY
This thread is great for people like myself who are in the market... Thanks for the good info everyone. Could I ask that in future posts in this thread people add MSRP to their post?
 

fiddy_ryder

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,655
0
Hollywood
ToP ride report:

got 'er built up... awesome damn bike for the price $439 msrp. Build is mucho quality. Clean welds and quality paint. Only wish was that it came with chain tugs. It does have a bit slack HA for dedicated jumper, but it is a do it all bike. Short seat tube is perfect length. I can run a full lenght seat post and still get enough leg extension to do some serious pedaling. This may not work for anyone over 6'. Running a uturn pike, makes this bike a great all-arounder.


I give it :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: outta 5


B
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
10,477
355
Hypernormality
NOTE:

Everyone: Can you add ride reports, etc, to post about the bike in question please, rather than making a new post?

Secondly, can you delete any off topic posts you migh have made please, or add the contents to a relevant bike post? I just want to try and keep this clean.

I've deleted my extraneous posts now, except for this one which I will delete in a few days.

Cheers! :)
 

bjanga

Turbo Monkey
Dec 25, 2004
1,356
0
San Diego
I just read in the DH forum that woodman components went out of business ~6 mos. ago. Just FYI if you were looking at those woodman frames . . .
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
10,477
355
Hypernormality
24 Bicycles - Moon

No information available for geometry yet :(

It looks super nice though, full 4130, 24" wheel specific.
Oh and a Titanium version too! :D :D Now I just need to win the lottery.

Sorry for the big images.





I'd expect you could get it without V-lugs if you asked nicely. Oh the production one looks like it has 6 bolts per dropout rather than just 4. 4 seems plenty to me....
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,157
1
SB
Changleen said:
24 Bicycles - Moon

No information available for geometry yet :(

It looks super nice though, full 4130, 24" wheel specific.
Oh and a Titanium version too! :D :D Now I just need to win the lottery.

Sorry for the big images.





I'd expect you could get it without V-lugs if you asked nicely. Oh the production one looks like it has 6 bolts per dropout rather than just 4. 4 seems plenty to me....
First 24 I've liked. That looks like a sick rig! Come on guys, post up your rides!
 

v-digit

Turbo Monkey
Apr 3, 2006
1,220
0
Brooklyn, NY
that things been around for a bit, search da web for geo.
however, one horrible horrible thing about that frame is that its 8lbs. oops.
 

bigdrop05

Monkey
Mar 26, 2005
427
0
Haro Werks DSR
Medium 15.5" ST
22.5" TT c-2-c
23.5" with seat up 3-4"
16.5" Chainstay
68mm shell
Easton 7005 aluminum.
2.4" fit's good.

HA about 69-70* with Z.1 FR 130mm