Quantcast

The Hardtail 'Frames and Geometry' thread

kenjikuro

Chimp
Jan 14, 2006
95
0
Haro Werks DSR My first bike = P
Medium 15.5" ST
22.5" TT c-2-c
23.5" with seat up 3-4"
16.5" Chainstay
68mm shell



on one gimp 2nd bike but its sold =X it is fun to play with, overall quite nice
22inch tt ( 26 " ver)
21.5" tt ( 24 "ver )
16.5-16.8" cs
70 degree headtube
68mm shell





Fall guy

Specs (with 80mm Manitou Sherman)


Material: Full Aircraft Certified 4130 cro-moly.


HT angle: 71 (steep enough to get some weight over the front wheel,slack enough for confidence.)


ST angle: 71 (Perfect for grabbing seat with knees.)


CS length (front of drop-outs): 14.75"


TT length: along the TT, 21.9" BMX way to size the bike, and as absolutely irrelevant as any other way these bikes are measured. You’ll get used to it. I’m 6' tall and love it.


BB Height: 12.375" with Kenda K-Rad 2.3's. Curious name, bitchin’ tire. DMR Moto is hot too.


Seat post size: 26.8.


Rear hub requirements: Any 14mm, BMX hub will work. LSD, or conventional.


Brakes: V-brake only.


BB: 68mm Euro.

 

cannondalejunky

ease dropper
Jun 19, 2005
2,928
2
Arkansas
2005 cannondale chase
small ; medium ; large
Chase Geometry Chart

Seat Tube Angle (degrees) 74 ; 74 ; 74
Head Tube Angle (degrees) 69 ; 69 ; 69
Horizontal Top Tube Length (in/cm) 21.4 ; 22.6 ; 24.0
Seat Tube Overall Length (in/cm) 14.0 ; 14.6 ; 14.6
Chainstay Length (in/cm) 16.7 ; 16.7 ; 16.7
Fork Rake (in/cm) 1.8 ; 1.8 ; 1.8
Bottom Bracket Height (in/cm) 11.7 ; 11.7 ; 11.7
Wheelbase (in/cm) 40.7 ; 42.0 ; 43.4
Trail (in/cm) 3.1 ; 3.1 ; 3.1
Standover Height (in/cm) 28.9 ; 29.3 ; 29.3
Bottom Bracket Drop (in/cm) 1.4 ; 1.4 ; 1.4
Front-Center Distance (in/cm) 24.1 ; 25.4 ; 26.8
Actual Top Tube Length (in/cm) 20.1 ; 21.2 ; 22.4



 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,157
1
SB
hardtales said:
so, how do you measure (or interpret) the head tube angle, if different length forks will cause it to change...?
Find out what fork the HA was measured with. The general approximate rule is 1" longer or shorter fork yields a 1 degree decrease or increase in HA.
 

cheeselad

Chimp
May 17, 2006
17
0
Quamen Emo
26" or 24",
68.8 Head Angle
21.65 Top Tube
15.75 Chainstay
70 Seat Angle
12" BB Height 5.57lbs
Stock dropouts: 10mm axle, 135mm hub width
-Upgradeable dropouts
Mil-Spec 4130 Chromoly main frame, reinforced
headtube junction, reinforced seatstay junction, machined seat
tube, 1 1/8 headtube, 1.25" postsize, 35mm seatclamp.

http://www.quamenbikes.com/


 
J

JRB

Guest
Here you go, Changleen. 06 Roscoe with Pike dialed down to about 120mm.



This shows the dropout I tapped to hold the axle back. It won't take a 2.3 slid forward in the drops, so I am holding it back on the drive side. I also have a tug on the non-drive side to keep it from pulling on hits. Not sure why pic turned out so huge, but you can see the detail. The hub is a cheap Ritchey that I threaded the axle to bolt on.

 

SONofGAWD

Chimp
Apr 12, 2006
24
0




Top Tube 21.8"
Chain Stay 15.75" - 16.65"
Seat Tube 11.15"
Wheel Base 41.1" - 42"
BB Height 13.25"
Stand Over 26.25"
Head Tube 4.55"
Head Tube Angle 69.5º
Seat Tube Angle 70.3º
Seat Post Size 27.2 mm
Finish Ano. Black
 

bjanga

Turbo Monkey
Dec 25, 2004
1,356
0
San Diego
Soul Cycles LOKI:
Size (Measured From Center Of Bottom Bracket To Top Of Seat Tube) 14.5" 16.5"
Recommended Fork Length 80-100mm 80-100mm
Head Angle 69 69
Headset 1 1/8 1 1/8
Seat Angle 71 71
Seatpost Size 27.2mm 27.2mm
Top Tube Length Measured Center To Center 21.3" 22.4"
Wheelbase 1043mm 1075mm
Chainstay Length 419mm 419mm
Bottom Bracket Width 73mm 73mm
Bottom Bracket Height 12.5" 12.5"
Disc Brake Mount Spacing 51mm IS 51mm IS
Rear Axle Spacing 135mm 135mm
Rear Axle Diameter 10mm 10mm
Maximum Tire Clearance 2.5+ 2.5+
Standover At Midsection Of Top Tube And Forward Of Seat Tube 27" 25" 29" 27"
Weight 4lbs 13oz 5lbs




Soul Cycles TITAN:
Size (Measured From Center Of Bottom Bracket To Top Of Seat Tube) 15.5" 18"
Recommended Fork Length 130-150mm 130-150mm
Head Angle 69 69
Headset 1 1/8 1 1/8
Seat Angle 71 71
Seatpost Size 27.2mm 27.2mm
Top Tube Length Measured Center To Center 22.3" 23"
Wheelbase 1076mm 1102mm
Chainstay Length 430mm 430mm
Bottom Bracket Width 73mm 73mm
Bottom Bracket Height 12" 12"
Disc Brake Mount Spacing 51mm IS 51mm IS
Rear Axle Spacing 135mm 135mm
Rear Axle Diameter 10mm 10mm
Maximum Tire Clearance 2.5 2.5
Standover At Midsection Of Top Tube And Forward Of Seat Tube 28" 24" 30" 26"
Weight 4lbs 5oz 4lbs 12oz




Santa Cruz Chameleon (measured with 500mm Axle-to-Crown fork):

 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,157
1
SB
NEMESIS PROJECT FRAMES: (Pictures are below the descriptions)

24" DeathMobile
22.30TT
15.20 rear-end
13.50 seat-tube
11.88 B/B
72º HA
70º SA



26" DeathMobile
22.75TT
15.50 rear-end
13.50 seat-tube
12.40 B/B
70º HA
70º SA



DeathMobile Features
- Spanish B/B
- Internal headset
- Simple design
- BMX rear hub specific
- TrueTemper OX platinum front triangle includes seat-tube !
- 4130 straight gauge rear end
- Gussets at head, top, and down tubes
- Gussetted at chainstay/BB interface
- CNC'd and custom engraved NEMESIS dropouts



26" Secret Agent (Zach Dank specific angles)
22.50 TT
15.80 -16.50 rear end
14.50 seat-tube
12.50 B/B
70º HA
70º SA



24" Secret Agent
22.30TT
15.50-15.75 rear end
14.50 chainstays
12.0 B/B
72º HA
70º SA



Secret Agent Features
- TrueTemper OX platinum front triangle, seat tube, and chainstays
- 4130 straight gauge seatstays
- Standard press fit 1 1/8 headtube , CNC machined and heat treated
- CNC'd euro B/B shell
- CNC'd and custom engraved NEMESIS dropouts
- 135mm disk specific rear spacing
- Gussets at headtube on top and downtubes



StreetFighter (special order only)
21.5 or 22.30 TT
15.0 ST
72º HA
70º SA
15.50-16.25 rear end
Each street-fighter is hand built by Brad Hodges , for each customer on a per order basis . New '07 Street-Fighter coming soon!



Frame Options include
- Custom powder coat single, 2 and 3 process colors
- Spanish B/B or EURO (euro required on 135mm bikes intended for geared use)
- Internal or Press fit 1 1/8 headtubes
- Custom cable guides or routing
 

bjanga

Turbo Monkey
Dec 25, 2004
1,356
0
San Diego
Copy/paste from a response to an email I sent to Cortina Cycles asking about the Europa DS frame:

Yes we do produce the frame and now it is called "The Mexican" and it is a 12mm through axle dropout frame. You can recieve the frame without paint, we do not do clear coating on raw aluminum. The head tube is 5" long and max diameter is 2-3/8" for 1.5" headsets. The BB is a 73mm shell width and the chainline measurement depends on the crankset you put on. The recomended fork travel is 100-130mm travel, the frame geometry is built around the manitou minute 3:00 100mm travel fork 18.89" axle to crown. The geometry is:


Head tube angle: 69°
Seat tube angle: 71°
top tube (effective): 22" (short) 23" (long)
seat tube (frame size, center of BB to top) 15"
chainstay length 16"

BB height: 12.25"
The Mexican frame is a 4X and dirt jump frame, and even though the frame might be strong enough for a dual crown fork it is not recomended as well as tall single crown forks with 6" or more travel. Retail pricing is $650 for frame and axle, 100% hand built in the USA. These frames are being produced but out of stock right now.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
10,337
244
Hypernormality
TwentyFour Seven DARK ANGEL V24 '06

Strengthened rear triangle with thicker wishbones and heat treating on the chain stays making the frame 25% stronger. Another small detail is the cable routing for the rear v brake is now under the top tube giving more clearance.

The 5th generation darkangel frame is now 24" specific and is one of the most rideable dirt/street frames in the world. Made from the highest quality 4130 cromoly, all frames feature an international standard rear disc mount and V brake bosses. Frames come complete with chain tugs.

21.5" top tube length,
71 degree head angle
BMX type BB.

Ideally suited for forks of 110mm but can accept up to 130mm within warranty. 27 seat tube. Available in Lime Green, Dark Red, Baby Blue, Electric Blue, Flip Brown and Black. All colours are pearlized. Weight 3kg. Seat post and clamp available at £14.99 extra. £199.99

COMING SOON. V24.SL. Superlight version of the classic featuring spanish BB, integrated headtube, fully heat treated with 14mm dropouts. 1.4lbs lighter than the standard V24.

Odd photo, sorry...



Better build, worse angle:

 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
10,337
244
Hypernormality
TwentyFour Seven DARK ANGEL V26 '06

26" version of the v24. Strengthened rear triangle with thicker wishbones and heat treating on the chain stays making the frame 25% stronger. Made from the highest quality 4130 cromoly, all frames feature an international standard rear disc mount and V brake bosses. Frames come complete with chain tugs. 21.5" top tube length, 71 degree head angle and BMX type BB. Ideally suited for forks of 110mm but can accept up to 130mm within warranty. 27 seat tube. Available in Lime Green, Dark Red, Baby Blue, Electric Blue, Flip Brown and Black. All colours are pearlized. Weight 3.2kg. Seat post and clamp available at £14.99 extra. £199.99

As above but with big wheels....
 

FESTER

Chimp
Jul 24, 2006
1
0
England
IDENTITI P-45

TT, 553mm (21.75”)
HA, 71 degrees on 440mm fork
ST, 345mm (13.6”) at 72 degrees
CS, 385mm (143/4”) min


 
Ventana CVD Custom
bb:12, cs:16, tt:22, stl:15, ha:69.75, sta:69

sorry no showroom pic, but the geometry is dialed. This bike's ridden out of some crazy sh*t that I can only dream about. Really depends on what you want the bike for though, this design is a little sketch for really high speed racing applications. The only thing I'd change on a race bike is a slightly longer chainstay, and I emphasize slightly. But as a do everything play bike, unbelievable. DJ, Street, Vert, bmx track, even tight dual and mtx corses as long as there is no really fast, really choppy stuff. Bike's best attributes...throwin style!
 

xcursedx

Chimp
Mar 11, 2007
49
0
519 ( forrest city massive )
Has any put 80mm forks on a 24" general lee ?
do you have pics ? how does it feel ?

i picked up the general last year rode it for a month or so and taco'd the rear rim , it sat around all year until i decided to build it up, but i've been getting so many parts that i'll end up having a second bike

( i'm going to pick up one of the blk mrkt frames and a new wheelset, but in the meantime i want to ride the generel with some forks )


---------------------edit ------------------------
nevermind, i got the blk mrkt riot , but i would still like to see what the general looks like with forks, i imagine the geometry would be crap ,

so can anyone answer my questions ? =)
 

BikeSATORI

Monkey
Apr 13, 2007
723
0
one world...
forgot Eastern, Sinister, NS Bikes, Draco, NPJ, Duncon, KGM, Agent, iron fist, SE, etc....

but I'm a noob here so I'll watch you guys work for the moment...

Great thread though, much needed resource, even though many of the frames here are already outdated (industry's movin' fast!) or out of production...
 

kalNhobbs

Chimp
Jun 21, 2007
19
0
Portland, Orygun!
Here's my MC rumble. Although the company went away for awhile :nopity: , they are on the upstart, and from the company blog, they are not making any changes to the rumble ("if its not broke..."), which is good since it's the perfect all rounder.

You can probably pick up a 2005 frame (the year they began the replaceable dropouts) for $150 on ebay, that's where I got mine.

sm/med/lg:

Head tube angle: 70°
Seat tube angle: 73°
Top tube (effective): 22/23/24"
Seat tube: 15/17/19"
chainstay length: 16"
BB height (to center of BB shell): 12.25"
 

Attachments

micahb

Monkey
Jan 6, 2006
176
0
Washington
This is a ton of good info. Should be required reading before asking "What bike should I get for DJ/Park?". By the way, what bike should I get for DJ/Park?
 

nocturnalism

Chimp
Sep 22, 2007
1
0
hey im new to dirt jumping just wondering if this would be any good as a first proper DJ bike




specifications

frame: full 4130 diamondback jump frameset with horizontal dropouts

fork: suntour xcm 100mm travel

hubs: formula cassete alloy sb black nutted axels and single speed converter. disc ready

rims: diamondback doublewall alloy black

spokes:14g steel with brass nippels

tryes:kenda k-rad 26x2.35

cassete:formuls single speed kit with 16tcog

chainset: chromly 3pc slined

bottombracket: cartride

chain: kmc

brake leveres: tektro alloy levers

brakes: tektro alloy v brake

headset: fsa pig

bars: diamondback alloy rise bar os w:670mm r:50mm b:6degree

grips:diamondback kraton rubber

stern:diamondback alloy

seatpost: diamondback alloy micro adjust l:300m

saddle:outland dirt jump

pedals:alloy platform

what do you think also how much would you pay for it
 

Leon94

Chimp
Dec 10, 2007
34
0
McLean, VA
http://www.sinisterbikes.com/images/2006 Images/2007_bikes/DNA/DNA_2007.pdf

2007 Sinister DNA (small)

73 mm ISCG bottom bracket shell
135 x 10 mm rear spacing
6.5 lbs. frame weight
1 - 1/8” deep press headset compatible
30.9 mm seat post
no front derailleur
31.8 mm seat post clamp
International standard brake only
All 6061 - T6 aircraft aluminum
1 -1/8 x 4.5” head tube
68.5-degree head angle
Replaceable drops
Square tube chain and seat stays
Gusseted triangle for extra durability
2.6” tire capacity
Designed for 80 mm - 100 mm fork
 

ddaiber

Chimp
Dec 13, 2007
1
0

Attachments

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
any 26's out there that are ultra short in the back, but XXL in the front, like a 23"tt ?
 

a rider

Chimp
Feb 3, 2008
6
0
Jefferson Oregon
Rancidbikes Punisher prototype
69.5 deg. head angle
15 5/8''-16 1/2'' Chainstays
73 deg. seat tube
22 1/2'' Top Tube
12 1/4'' BB height with this fork and tires
MSRP Unknown at this time.



 

TA..

!
Aug 21, 2007
228
0
Bionics department
Another sick model here SuperCo Charger 26"

Geometry (with 18.5” fork)

Head Angle: 70°
Seat Angle: 71° effective at 16 inch BB center to seat rails (68 actual)
TT length (actual): 22.125 inch
BB height: 12.125 inch
Min CS length: 15 inch
Min wheel base: 39.6 inch (with 1.75 inch fork offset)
Head tube length: 4.5 inch
Seat tube length: 9.75 inch (BB center to TT center)
Frame weight: 4.9 lbs
 

brandonbmx1

Chimp
Nov 11, 2006
33
0
Gainesville, FL
Here is my new aluminum staats mtx. The frame weighs only 3.9 lbs. The bike rides amazing. Here is the geometry from the website:


7005 MTX Small Medium
Top Tube 21" 22"
Rider Area 26.3" 27.5"
Chain Stay 16.25" 16.25"
BB Height 12.8" 12.8"
Head Angle 69* 69*
Seat Angle 70.5* 71*
Brake 26x1.95-2.25 26x1.95-2.25
Head Tube 1 1/8" 1 1/8"
Seat Post 27.2mm 27.2mm
Weight 3.9lbs 4.0lbs

I will try to take the measurements myself to verify the website. You may want to check out there website for measurement explanations, as they measure things a little differently. Rider area is basically the downtube length.
 

tmx

aka chromegoddess
Mar 16, 2003
1,683
2
Portland
any 26's out there that are ultra short in the back, but XXL in the front, like a 23"tt ?
Not listed on the SuperCo site but there were some XL Charger's made with 23" TT.

edit: But now sold out. More will be made when the next batch heads into production later this year.
 
Last edited:
Jul 2, 2008
16
0
NJ
My current build, although no longer in production, possibly still available in Canada:
Scratch_build1.jpg
Banshee Scratch, large, below geometry for 24"x24" (also accepts 26"x26")
- Fork Travel: 3"
- Head Angle: 70°
- Seat Angle: 72°
- BB Height: 12.3" (312mm)
- Seat Tube: 16” (406mm)
- Top Tube: 23.5” (597mm)
- Max Tire Clearance: 24x3.0" (26" x 2.8")
- Rear Hub Spacing: 135mm
- Rear Axle Size: 14mm single-speed (adaptors included), 10mm multi-speed
- Chainstay: 15.75” - 17” (400- 432mm)
- Wheelbase: 41.9” (1064mm)
- Headset: 1.125"
- Seatpost Dia: 27.2mm
- BB: BMX (American BB)

Tom P.
 
Last edited: